Jason Posted March 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='Mar 19 2005, 05:55 PM'][img]http://www.sierraclub.org/globalwarming/images/windmills.jpg[/img] [b]We should mandate that every home have a wind turbine on the roof [/b] [right][post="64771"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Except the animal rights activists don't like windmills because of all the birds that get killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 i guess i'm in a mood to bring back old topics, but i found a good article that explains, very well, the benefit of ANWR: [url="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2002225669_murkowski31.html"]seattletimes.com[/url] [quote]Thursday, March 31, 2005 - Page updated at 12:00 a.m. [b]An honest look at the facts surrounding ANWR drilling[/b] By Frank H. Murkowski For more than a century, the economic vitality of Washington state and Alaska has been intertwined. From the Gold Rush to the oil boom, money and natural resources leaving Alaska have passed through Washington, creating tens of thousands of jobs. Seattle-based companies are key investors in Alaska's multibillion-dollar seafood, shipping, tourism and retail industries. The benefits to Washington state's economy will continue to grow if Congress approves oil development in a small section of Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Washington's five oil refineries process billions of dollars of Alaska crude, supplying consumers throughout the Northwest with energy. Washington alone consumes 18 million gallons of petroleum daily. Apparently, not everyone is traveling to their destinations on bicycles. [b]If Alaska's crude oil were not available, Washington state would be getting its oil supply from Middle Eastern nations in foreign ships with foreign crews, built in foreign shipyards. [/b] More than half of this country's oil comes from foreign sources, particularly OPEC. America needs American oil  to reduce our dependence on the foreign oil that threatens our national security. We must develop energy sources in America, for the American consumer, while safeguarding American security. [b]Alaska's environmental standards are the highest in the world, and yet Washington Sens. Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray  opponents of ANWR drilling  have repeatedly declined my invitations to visit ANWR and see firsthand this area of national importance.[/b] Your senators would have witnessed that Alaska mandates the highest environmental standards in the world. Technological advances in environmentally friendly drilling, developed in Alaska, have been transferred to other locations around the globe, lifting the bar for the entire industry. [b]Protecting the environment is a global issue, not just an Alaskan issue. Stopping the exploration of ANWR only shifts oil production to other parts of the world where environmental standards are lower.[/b] [b]Advances in directional drilling make the footprint in ANWR extremely small. Use of only 2,000 acres for ANWR development is authorized in the House energy bill, yet ANWR is 19 million acres, about the size of Colorado.[/b] Federal biologists began surveying the Central Arctic caribou herd in 1978, after the Alaska pipeline began operation. [b]Since then, the herd has grown from 5,000 to over 32,000 animals.[/b] Alaska has proven it can be responsible; wildlife in ANWR will continue to coexist with cautious oil and gas exploration. ANWR is not like other federal land. When it became a refuge in 1980, the enormous oil potential in the "1002 area" was already known. This small area of ANWR was given a special designation that allowed for oil drilling with authorization from Congress and the president's signature. [b]Critics falsely claim ANWR will only produce six months of oil. This incorrectly assumes ANWR would be the only oil field in operation in the world. In fact, ANWR oil will make significant contributions to the nation's energy supply for decades, replacing what we import from Saudi Arabia for the next 20 years. To bring this statistic home, ANWR alone would supply the state of Washington with all of its oil needs for 15 years.[/b] [b]Some estimates use the most pessimistic production figures by counting only 3.5 billion barrels of oil. The U.S. Geological Survey estimates between 12 billion and 32 billion barrels exist in the ANWR "1002 area," of which between 6 billion and 16 billion barrels are recoverable using current technology.[/b] Some say ANWR will take at least seven years to begin production. That delay is because of the comprehensive environmental-impact study necessary to ensure that the environment is protected. [b]Like all Americans, I support research and technological development in alternative energies so that in the future we can reduce our energy dependence. But we must be realistic  right now the world moves on oil and that will be the case for years to come. Until the arrival of new energy technology, oil from ANWR can significantly help in easing our dependence on foreign imports.[/b] Producing oil in Alaska means high-paying careers for American workers, not foreigners. Companies friendly to our country will profit, rather than governments that would prefer our demise. We need an honest discussion of the facts and science regarding responsible ANWR oil production and its numerous benefits for America. Please encourage Washington state's two senators to actually visit the North Slope of Alaska and see what they are voting against at the expense of their own state, Alaska and America's national-security interests. Frank H. Murkowski is the governor of Alaska. Copyright © 2005 The Seattle Times Company[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 No offence, but apparently Mr. Murkowski didnt do his research.... this line more than any other is pretty off... "If Alaska's crude oil were not available, Washington state would be getting its oil supply from Middle Eastern nations in foreign ships with foreign crews, built in foreign shipyards." We get most of our Oil from Canada, yet that wasnt mentioned at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='Mar 31 2005, 12:42 PM']No offence, but apparently Mr. Murkowski didnt do his research.... this line more than any other is pretty off... "If Alaska's crude oil were not available, Washington state would be getting its oil supply from Middle Eastern nations in foreign ships with foreign crews, built in foreign shipyards." We get most of our Oil from Canada, yet that wasnt mentioned at all. [right][post="69986"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] no offense, but they didn't list it b/c it isn't true... as of november 2004: [url="http://api-ec.api.org/filelibrary/EstimatedCrudeProductImportsMonthy.pdf"]click here[/url] canada: 15.8% saudi arabia: 12.9 mexico: 12.5 venezuela: 11.6 nigeria: 7.3 iraq: 4.5 russia: 3.7 algeria: 3.5 kuwait: 2.5 other: 22.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 I see what your saying in terms of total oil numbers, however I was speaking about it in terms of single countries, meaning we get more oil from Canada than any other nation, which is true, however Canada by itself does not outdo the total of the other nations. .... Semantics. But the arthur does imply that we get most of it from the middle east, the of top 5 countries in my list that comes from the department of energy (http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/facts/2004/fcvt_fotw350.shtml) only Saudi Arabia is in the middle east, and Nigeria is in Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 agreed... we are not as dependant on "middle east oil" as most of us think (including me until i saw this breakdown)... my position is that until we can better perfect hydrogen fuel, we need to get away from foreign oil in general... hydrogen is the long term solution, ANWR imo, is A short term solution <edit> i was more replying the 60% number originally posted... but after i reread your last post, you didn't mention that number... canada is our leading supplier though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 The breakdown supprised me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengal_Smoov Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Fossil Fuels like oil are limited, it doesn't make sense for us as a nation to put all of our eggs in one basket. We as a nation need to develop an alternate energy supply, whether it be solar, wind, hydrogen, or a combination of the three. It's 2005, we need a more efficient energy source, something that won't ruin the environment to abtain or ruin the environment with it's waste products. Oil is good, but we as a nation are too dependent on it. Since the early 1900's big business has basically ran our country through lobbyist and campgain donantions, oil corporations are major players in washington. In order for our nation to not remain dependent on countries who want to blow us off the map, we need to develop and use the technology that already exist. The greed of the oil corporations shouldn't be more important than our environment or the nations energy supply. We the people need to make sure that OUR representatives in congress have our best interest at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dan_Bengals_FL- Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 [quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Mar 31 2005, 03:20 PM']Fossil Fuels like oil are limited, it doesn't make sense for us as a nation to put all of our eggs in one basket. We as a nation need to develop an alternate energy supply, whether it be solar, wind, hydrogen, or a combination of the three. It's 2005, we need a more efficient energy source, something that won't ruin the environment to abtain or ruin the environment with it's waste products. Oil is good, but we as a nation are too dependent on it. Since the early 1900's big business has basically ran our country through lobbyist and campgain donantions, oil corporations are major players in washington. In order for our nation to not remain dependent on countries who want to blow us off the map, we need to develop and use the technology that already exist. The greed of the oil corporations shouldn't be more important than our environment or the nations energy supply. We the people need to make sure that OUR representatives in congress have our best interest at heart. [right][post="70039"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Man, now Smoov and I agree on two points...education and alternative fuels. This is getting scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 in the wake of the New Orleans disaster, and pictures like this: [img]http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.gagb10409010035.katrina_oil_gagb104.jpg[/img] are you guys that are against drilling in anwr feeling as good about your position as you were when this was first discussed here?? some of you (you can read for yourself... i won't call you out specifically) made fun of this decision or at least disagreed w/ it... granted, if they started drilling then, we would still be 9 years away, but if we started when it was first brought up (1995) then we would be in a thousand times better shape than we are at now... beaker made some great points in this thread about both alternative fuels and not putting all your eggs in one basket... first about the alternative fuels, i agree that we need to look at hydrogen, wind, clean coal, nuclear, etc... to lessen our dependency on oil in general... the second point is the most important though... we are now seeing the effects of putting "all your eggs in one basket" b/c now that N.O. is literally a lake, 25% of our refineries in the U.S. are now not functioning... how can one city get hit, and 1/4 of our refineries be out of commission for the foreseeable future?? i'll let you answer that yourself... we have to talk about this shit b/c its important... we are seeing the effects now... btw, if mods want to move this to the "jesus & dubya" forum, go for it... it could be a controversial thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 My new house: My new car: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote name='Beaker' date='Sep 1 2005, 01:28 PM']My new house: My new car: [right][post="139962"][/post][/right][/quote] remember, w/ that car, to stay away from tunnels... and rainy days... and night... and gloomy days... and alaska most of the year... i'm sure there are more warnings that would come w/ that car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodey319 Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Fiirst thing that people have to understand is that oil isnt just for gasoline. Here is a list of the things made from oil. Anything made of plastic is made from oil. [url="http://www.anwr.org/features/oiluses.htm"]http://www.anwr.org/features/oiluses.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote name='whodey319' date='Sep 1 2005, 04:42 PM']Fiirst thing that people have to understand is that oil isnt just for gasoline. Here is a list of the things made from oil. Anything made of plastic is made from oil. [url="http://www.anwr.org/features/oiluses.htm"]http://www.anwr.org/features/oiluses.htm[/url] [right][post="140099"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] 60% of oil is turned to gasoline... sorry, but i don't quite understand your point... the problem w/ the oil prices is simply that there is more demand than what can be supplied.... one way to help us out would be to be able to pump the million gallons a day of oil out of anwr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodey319 Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote name='bengalrick' date='Sep 1 2005, 05:48 PM']60% of oil is turned to gasoline... sorry, but i don't quite understand your point... the problem w/ the oil prices is simply that there is more demand than what can be supplied.... one way to help us out would be to be able to pump the million gallons a day of oil out of anwr... [right][post="140103"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] not saying not to use the anwr. People just always associate oil with gasoline and thats not all it is. And i read that the real number is 35-40% of oil is turned to gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza10304 Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote name='bengalrick' date='Sep 1 2005, 04:48 PM']60% of oil is turned to gasoline... sorry, but i don't quite understand your point... the problem w/ the oil prices is simply that there is more demand than what can be supplied.... one way to help us out would be to be able to pump the million gallons a day of oil out of anwr... [right][post="140103"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] It'll also take about 7 years to get a drop of oil out of there. What about the oil being demanded by our troops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote name='Bengal_Smoov' date='Mar 31 2005, 02:20 PM']Fossil Fuels like oil are limited, it doesn't make sense for us as a nation to put all of our eggs in one basket. We as a nation need to develop an alternate energy supply, whether it be solar, wind, hydrogen, or a combination of the three. It's 2005, we need a more efficient energy source, something that won't ruin the environment to abtain or ruin the environment with it's waste products. Oil is good, but we as a nation are too dependent on it. Since the early 1900's big business has basically ran our country through lobbyist and campgain donantions, oil corporations are major players in washington. In order for our nation to not remain dependent on countries who want to blow us off the map, we need to develop and use the technology that already exist. The greed of the oil corporations shouldn't be more important than our environment or the nations energy supply. We the people need to make sure that OUR representatives in congress have our best interest at heart. [right][post="70039"][/post][/right][/quote] I agree too...and let's not forget that Big Auto has little incentive to change the status quo...think of how much R&D dollars they'd have to spend to alter their manufacturing facilities to accomadate all the new parts and processes that would go along with such a change...it's going to be painful, but our govt must take the lead on this and forcibly push big oil and big auto to make changes...and they can do that with an incentive program rather than strong-arm techniques as well... God, now I agree with Smoov too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #22 Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 [quote name='Jason' date='Mar 23 2005, 12:01 AM']Except the animal rights activists don't like windmills because of all the birds that get killed. [right][post="66280"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] find proof of this. [url="http://www.currykerlinger.com/windpower.htm"]http://www.currykerlinger.com/windpower.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #22 Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 What you all don't understand is that Oil Companies DO NOT WANT do drill in Alaska right now. It is still economically unviable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 [quote name='bengalrick' date='Sep 1 2005, 05:48 PM']60% of oil is turned to gasoline... sorry, but i don't quite understand your point... the problem w/ the oil prices is simply that there is more demand than what can be supplied.... one way to help us out would be to be able to pump the million gallons a day of oil out of anwr... [right][post="140103"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Actually it's closer to 30% for gasoline. Not only plastic, but lots of other things as well, like Vaseline, bowling balls, heating oil, airplane fuel, grease, motor oil, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaker Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 [quote name='whodey319' date='Sep 1 2005, 09:42 PM']Anything made of plastic is made from oil. [url="http://www.anwr.org/features/oiluses.htm"]http://www.anwr.org/features/oiluses.htm[/url] [right][post="140099"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Screw plastics, theyre not biodegradable. They are endangering the East Icelandic Wooly Mouse. There's only ONE reason to keep plastics around: SILICONE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dan_Bengals_FL- Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 I'm still against drilling in Alaska and I'm about to pay out my ass once I start commuting again to school in about a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #22 Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 [quote][img]http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.gagb10409010035.katrina_oil_gagb104.jpg[/img][/quote] This picture came from Georgia about 4 days ago and is an example of why capitalism doesn't work as well as advertised. Corporations were charging all that they could, because they knew that people either paid 6$/Gallon, or had to stay in New Orleans, Mississippi, or Alabama. Obviously, making a buck is more important than people's well-being or safety to these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodey319 Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 [quote name='#22' date='Sep 2 2005, 02:47 AM']This picture came from Georgia about 4 days ago and is an example of why capitalism doesn't work as well as advertised. Corporations were charging all that they could, because they knew that people either paid 6$/Gallon, or had to stay in New Orleans, Mississippi, or Alabama. Obviously, making a buck is more important than people's well-being or safety to these people. [right][post="140451"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] they also said on the news this morning they have lists of the places that did this and they will be getting a nice letter in the mail with a fine or summons to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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