Guest BengalsOwn Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='UDUB' date='Mar 23 2005, 11:21 PM']No! but her husband by law becomes her guardian, and he has been fighting to have the tubes removed since it was first discovered that she was brain dead ten years ago. She told her husband that she did not want to live in a vegatative state. Period. People think she's been locked away in some broom closet for the last ten years and all of a sudden it was decided to pull the plug. Thats not the case. Time and time again for the last ten years it has been determined that she is brain dead. All of a sudden the media gets ahold of this story and all of these damn "Johnny Come Lately" so-called experts all of a sudden know whats wrong with her. Bullshit. The lady has been suffering for ten freaking years, because her family is too damn selfish to let her go. Its been proven that with having only brain stem function people can follow objects, it doesnt mean she even see's them. In essence the lights are barely on, but NOBODY is at home and never will be. I'm politically a conservative, but what makes me sick is all of my conservative brethern who have time and time again spoken out about the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman, and now all of a sudden HER HUSBAND is being called everything but the anti-christ. Damn! Grow up people and get a freaking clue. Do you honestly think the courts would not have done there due diligence??? They have for the last ten years!! Appeal after appeal has caused her to suffer long enough. Her husband didnt divorce her because he made a promise to her. He won a million bucks in her malpractice case, and if he only wanted money he could have divorced her and walked away. Instead he's spent ALL OF IT to try and fulfill her wishes. Shit!!! Some THIRTY doctors say she's BRAIN DEAD!!! And one says "Duh...Maybe.." and it's "Stop The Presses Boys!! We Got A Live One Here!!"" Bullshit!! Let the woman die in dignity. Let her go home to heaven if you believe in that, and give her some peace. And STOP using your head for something other than to grow hair on!! Use your brain!! Dont let the media think for you!! Geeze! The saying is true isnt it? "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!!" [right][post="66743"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Don't forget as well that she is costing the State 80,000 $ a year.... I think if they want to keep her going, then the "millions" of people who want to keep her alive (I use this term loosely) should donate $ to her and then we will see how much drive there is for her..... I guess what bothers me is the Congress and public gets all up in arms about one half brain dead vegetable and doesn't give one shit normally for the 10,000 children that die of starvation every night throughout the world, the thousands of kids that sleep under bridges everyday in America etc..... Americans have the uncanny ability to look soo trivial sometimes .... If it isn't whos dick is Jackson playing with, it is Save the Vegetable.... [i]You all are my witness, If I am ever laying in a bed for 15 years and the highlight of my day is shitting and watching a red balloon........ Shoot me in the fucking head Signed BJ[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlackJesus Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [color="blue"][b]Also in defense of the husband some Rich guy offered him a bunch of money to stop his case and turn her over to her parents and the husband refused.... if he was all about the cash that was his chance [/b][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='BengalsOwn' date='Mar 24 2005, 12:21 AM']Good post. [right][post="66753"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] who said she wanted to die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Who said she had the ability to ask? I'm going to mostly dodge this one. Very sticky moral wickets won't win me any friends............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I realize euthanasia is the popular way to go now, God forbid anyone suffer, amongst some highly liberal Westernized countries (Holland, I'm looking in your general direction!)........ It doesn't make it right. If she has been truly unchanged mentally after 15 years (NOT A COMA....NOT A COMA...for you that believe she'll recover like a coma patient does......), then isn't a lethal injection much more humane than starvation? I'm surprised nobody brought this up...if Old Yeller's got the rabies..... OK, so it is a human life at stake... Wouldn't anyone desire a death with some semblance of dignity, if possible? Fucking courts....and money.... OK, it's just about money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalsOwn Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='Nati Ice' date='Mar 24 2005, 01:33 AM']who said she wanted to die? [right][post="66797"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Maybe her husband knows that that is what she would want? I know if my wife was in this state, and her parents weren't willing to let her die, I'd be fighting like hell to give my wife what I know she wants. A husband knows what's better for his wife than her parents do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='Homer_Rice' date='Mar 23 2005, 09:57 PM']From the "what-if" history files... [b]Mysterious Ailment Identified as Polio[/b] [b]No Cure Available, Victim to be Euthanized[/b] August 14, 1921 (Campobello Island) Last week Frank Roosevelt had a spell and fell off his boat while sailing. Two days later, he discovered that his legs were paralyzed and required further medical attention. Doctors diagnosed his condition as the onset of poliomyelitis. This terrible disease ruins the lives of its victims and, because there is no cure, in accordance with current cultural standards, those stricken down by polio are given the option to be euthanized. Roosevelt has chosen this option, saying, "I've had a decent run, I have had the fortune to be Secretary of the Navy. With this malady besetting me, I'd prefer to die with dignity. It's not likely that I can continue to be a productive member of society under these conditions." -30- [right][post="66729"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Nice counterpoint, but hardly relevant to Schiavo's situation... Polio is one thing.... Brain_Death is another... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalsOwn Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 This is now in the supreme court... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='Bunghole' date='Mar 24 2005, 02:06 AM']Nice counterpoint, but hardly relevant to Schiavo's situation... Polio is one thing.... Brain_Death is another... [right][post="66825"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Depends on how you look at it, from the bottom up, or the top down. I can see both perspectives, but I tend to be a top-downer myself. We had this debate in my family a few years ago when my brother died suddenly from heat stroke (just shortly before the fellow from the Vikings keeled over) and we all struggled with it. Here's how the debate came out: if I become incapacitated, keep me alive and use me for science; if my mother (the only surviving member of my family) becomes incapacitated, she has a living will appointing her brother (my uncle) that says, "pull the plug." She gets part of her wishes, I get part of mine, so it's kind of a cop out all around, but that's the best we could figure. One of the better articles about this sad and difficult moral quandry: [url="http://slate.msn.com/id/2115208/"]http://slate.msn.com/id/2115208/[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='UDUB' date='Mar 23 2005, 10:21 PM']No! but her husband by law becomes her guardian, and he has been fighting to have the tubes removed since it was first discovered that she was brain dead ten years ago. She told her husband that she did not want to live in a vegatative state. Period. People think she's been locked away in some broom closet for the last ten years and all of a sudden it was decided to pull the plug. Thats not the case. Time and time again for the last ten years it has been determined that she is brain dead. All of a sudden the media gets ahold of this story and all of these damn "Johnny Come Lately" so-called experts all of a sudden know whats wrong with her. Bullshit. The lady has been suffering for ten freaking years, because her family is too damn selfish to let her go. Its been proven that with having only brain stem function people can follow objects, it doesnt mean she even see's them. In essence the lights are barely on, but NOBODY is at home and never will be. I'm politically a conservative, but what makes me sick is all of my conservative brethern who have time and time again spoken out about the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman, and now all of a sudden HER HUSBAND is being called everything but the anti-christ. Damn! Grow up people and get a freaking clue. Do you honestly think the courts would not have done there due diligence??? They have for the last ten years!! Appeal after appeal has caused her to suffer long enough. Her husband didnt divorce her because he made a promise to her. He won a million bucks in her malpractice case, and if he only wanted money he could have divorced her and walked away. Instead he's spent ALL OF IT to try and fulfill her wishes. Shit!!! Some THIRTY doctors say she's BRAIN DEAD!!! And one says "Duh...Maybe.." and it's "Stop The Presses Boys!! We Got A Live One Here!!"" Bullshit!! Let the woman die in dignity. Let her go home to heaven if you believe in that, and give her some peace. And STOP using your head for something other than to grow hair on!! Use your brain!! Dont let the media think for you!! Geeze! The saying is true isnt it? "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!!" [right][post="66743"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] If they unplugged a machine and she died the same day ... then yes let her die. It has been 5 DAYS since they stopped feeding her...she ain`t dead. If you do not see that as cruel then that is on you. If a dog is sick they at least have enough decency to put it asleep...they don`t starve the fucking [b]thing[/b]...if they DID then that would be cruelty to an animal which is punishable by jail time. So then why is it OK to do that to a [b]human[/b] ? As far as her husband goes...I read where he sued and got money. But he used none of it for any kind of rehab for her... denistry or anything. Doesn`t sound like he has always had her best interest at heart to me... If my wife was in that state...and even if she told me that she never wanted to live like that ...I would not soil my relationship with her family, starve her to death and make it such a big issue...[b]just to honor something she said once while watching TV ...she never had it in writing and he never mentioned it untill years had passed.[/b] [quote][b]1990[/b] Feb - Terri Collapses in her home May - Terri discharged from Humana Hospital in St Petersburg, Florida. Dec - Terri taken to California for experimental implant [b]1991[/b] Feb - Terri moved to home with husband. Jan - Terri moved to Bradenton Mediplex Rehabilitation Center. [b]Apr - Terri's condition is assessed as improving. Apr - Terri's husband advised to move her to Gainesville Rehabilitation Center to receive advanced therapy to continue Terri's recovery.[/b] Jul - Terri moved to Sable Palms Nursing Home. [b]1992[/b] [b]Aug - Terri awarded $250,000 in malpractice settlement. Nov - Terri awarded $1.4 million in malpractice trial. Nov - Michael Schiavo awarded $600,000 in malpractice trial.[/b] [b]1993[/b] [b]Feb - Michael Schiavo denies recommended rehabilitation treatment. Feb - Schiavo and Terri's parents have falling out regarding lack of therapy for Terri.[/b] [b]Feb - Schiavo withholds medical information from Terri's parents.[/b] Feb - Schiavo posts Do not Resuscitate order in Terri's medical chart. Jun - Schiavo threatens Schindler family with lawsuit. [b]Aug - Schiavo orders medical staff not to treat Terri for potentially fatal infection.[/b] Sep - Bob and Mary Schindler petition courts to remove Schiavo as Terri's guardian. [b]Nov - Schiavo admits in deposition that he knew withholding treatment of infection could result in Terri's death[/b].[/quote] There is more to it here...I just posted what I thought was the most important part... [url="http://www.terrisfight.org/timeline.html"]http://www.terrisfight.org/timeline.html[/url] So do you see where I am coming from now ? It isn`t the media "making" me think...and it seems like you never really did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='BengalsOwn' date='Mar 24 2005, 03:04 AM'][b]Maybe her husband knows that that is what she would want?[/b] I know if my wife was in this state, and her parents weren't willing to let her die, I'd be fighting like hell to give my wife what I know she wants. A husband knows what's better for his wife than her parents do. [right][post="66824"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] [b]THEN WHY DID HE WAIT UNTIL SHE WAS IN THAT CONDITION FOR [u]7 YEARS[/u] BEFORE TRYING TO GET THE TUBE PULLED????????[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='UDUB' date='Mar 24 2005, 12:21 AM']No! [b]but her husband by law becomes her guardian, and he has been fighting to have the tubes removed since it was first discovered that she was brain dead ten years ago.[/b] She told her husband that she did not want to live in a vegatative state. Period. .... [right][post="66743"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Not exactly correct. She had been in that condition for 7 years. At that time he received a monetary settlement. It was at that time he started pushing to have the tube pulled. And she is NOT brain dead. She responds to her family. There are doctors who believe she could improve with treatment. Will she ever be "normal" again? Probably not. But without a living will that clearly states her wishes, to kill her, especially by starvation/dehydration is just WRONG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='Mar 24 2005, 01:32 AM'][color="blue"][b]Also in defense of the husband some Rich guy offered him a bunch of money to stop his case and turn her over to her parents and the husband refused.... if he was all about the cash that was his chance [/b][/color] [right][post="66760"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] He has also said he is going to have her creamated as soon as she is dead. There is at least one doctor who thinks Terri wound up in her condition by more sinister means than cardiac arrest due to bullemia. At least one psychologist thinks Mike has a similar profile to OJ or Peterson. Now it is true that that is speculation on at least some level. But I think he is hiding something. It's not about money anymore. He got that 8 years ago. I think it is about CYA now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 i don't see how there can be this many questions surrounding this topic, and here feeding tube is still removed... there has been 3 former seperate nurses that support that she is responsive to her family... [url="http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/20/102601.shtml"]read this...[/url] [quote]A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would allow only a feeding tube. Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified: "At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag. "[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely." Law testified that the only reason she didn't attempt to feed Ms. Schiavo more frequently was "because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael." Editorializing on the case in light of Law's account, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette said Sunday, "It is one thing to withdraw a feeding tube; another entirely to withhold that day's meal tray." Carla Sauer Iyer was a registered nurse at the same facility. In her own affidavit Iyer testified that Ms. Schiavo was capable of speech, explaining, "[Terri] spoke on a regular basis, saying such things as 'Mommy' and 'help me.'" When she put a washcloth in Terri's hands to keep her fingers from curling together, Iyer said, "Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy" that he had forbidden. "Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death," the RN noted. "Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that bitch gonna die?'"[/quote] now why the fuck should this asshole have control over whether she dies or not... and how can you fight for money to rehabilitate, and then NOT do it, and still get what you want... he should be locked up for torchering this woman... she will never live a normal life, but i don't accept that she is a vegtable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 yeah i agree with that if he did fight for all that money to "rehab" her and now he is tring to murder her to keep the money that sounds and awful lot like someone knocking off there signifigant other for life insurance money u know? Why is this legal?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Supreme Court rejects request to reinsert her feeding tube... Makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Mar 24 2005, 10:25 AM']Supreme Court rejects request to reinsert her feeding tube... Makes no sense to me. [right][post="66928"][/post][/right][/quote] i know have absolutely ZERO respect for our justice system.... something needs to be done... it sounds like a good time to attack the courts b/c of the majority in the senate... they have to be tired of dealing w/ these "off the wall" judgements... how can they side w/ letting her die, when all avenues aren't looked into... i give up... i hope she dies soon now and i hope michael and every judge that played God in this situation burns in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza10304 Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='BlackJesus' date='Mar 24 2005, 01:29 AM']Don't forget as well that she is costing the State 80,000 $ a year.... I think if they want to keep her going, then the "millions" of people who want to keep her alive (I use this term loosely) should donate $ to her and then we will see how much drive there is for her..... I guess what bothers me is the Congress and public gets all up in arms about one half brain dead vegetable and doesn't give one shit normally for the 10,000 children that die of starvation every night throughout the world, the thousands of kids that sleep under bridges everyday in America etc..... Americans have the uncanny ability to look soo trivial sometimes .... If it isn't whos dick is Jackson playing with, it is Save the Vegetable.... [i]You all are my witness, If I am ever laying in a bed for 15 years and the highlight of my day is shitting and watching a red balloon........ Shoot me in the fucking head Signed BJ[/i] [right][post="66758"][/post][/right][/quote] Great post...There is so much other shit going on that these people could get involved in their communities (or the surrounding "bad" areas) and help but they instead put all their energies into this case which has less and less to do with Terri than with each sides agenda. How do you suppose that 12 year old kid ended up going to the protest? It's spring break for public and private schools in Florida, "Hey mom, forget videogames and hanging out with my friends, I wanna go out there and protest an issue I barely understand except for what you have told me" (I know I am making a generalization and assumption). There have also been many qualified neuro-surgeons throughout the years stating that even though she may laugh, cry, yawn, and appear to be following objects, it is exactly the type of response attributed to her type of vegetative state. Sure the family can keep asking people for second-opinions until they get the one they want, but those doctors never met with her they just saw video and test results to come up with their conclusions. IMO, the family is having a difficult time letting go (understandable) but there is no need to drag this through the courts and turn it into a crusade where what is important is lost. Put her, her family, her husband, and everyone involved out of their misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Whether or not she dies isn`t the problem...starving her to death IS. If she had it in writing ...then I`m all for that ...she didn`t though. Who knows what her true wishes were anyway ? All I know is that no1 deserves to be starved to death no matter what their condition is ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Mar 24 2005, 10:53 AM']Whether or not she dies isn`t the problem...starving her to death IS. If she had it in writing ...then I`m all for that ...she didn`t though. Who knows what her true wishes were anyway ? All I know is that no1 deserves to be starved to death no matter what their condition is ... [right][post="66943"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Unfotunately that is the only way a person is allowed to die, it is "Natural". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='Ben' date='Mar 24 2005, 09:56 AM']Unfotunately that is the only way a person is allowed to die, it is "Natural". [right][post="66946"][/post][/right][/quote] To starve to death isn`t natural. Hell that`s kind of like saying that when some1 has a heart attack they shouldn`t get a surgery because that is`t natural... no1 wants to be starved to death.. and no1 wants to see some1 they love starved to death...there is nothing "natural" about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Mar 24 2005, 11:03 AM'] To starve to death isn`t natural. Hell that`s kind of like saying that when some1 has a heart attack they shouldn`t get a surgery because that is`t natural... no1 wants to be starved to death.. and no1 wats to see some1 they love starved to death...there is othig "natural" about that... [right][post="66947"][/post][/right][/quote] I'm just saying that is the logic, instead of just "accidentally" upping the morhpine. Of course what is natural these days? Most of the things that keeps us alive are not "natural". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='Ben' date='Mar 24 2005, 10:04 AM']I'm just saying that is the logic, instead of just "accidentally" upping the morhpine. Of course what is natural these days? Most of the things that keeps us alive are not "natural". [right][post="66948"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] no machines are keeping her alive...just a feeding tube. They cut her food and water off and she is still alive. I just don`t see how this is allowed ? Hell they`d be better off and look a little more humane if they put a pillow over her head ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 [quote name='oldschooler' date='Mar 24 2005, 11:14 AM']no machines are keeping her alive...just a feeding tube. They cut her food and water off and she is still alive. I just don`t see how this is allowed ? Hell they`d be better off and look a little more humane if they put a pillow over her head ! [right][post="66949"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] I was agreeing w/ you there. If this chick had only done a living will, we could all be talking about michael jackson here. I've been staying away from this thread because I'm not real sure what stance i want ot take on it yet. And some people were trying to turn it into a liberal vs. conservative thread..ugggh. Personally, I feel if her parents are willing to take on the burden of care, go for it. But... Every freaking lobby out there sees this as an opportunity to push whatever agenda they have. I doubt most of these people give a shit what happens to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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