On my Mac, Filling out web forms..

[-GoBengals-]

being in ohio, whenever im filling out forms, i can tab to each line, do the address tab to the state, which is a drop down and hit "o" and ohio comes up and tab to the next line.. but since i got the mac, i cnat seem to do this, it tabs past the drop down to the next line, and i have to go click and scroll down like a sucker..

is this a setting i can adjust somewhere?

[|Elflocko|]

Not without clicking on the drop-down. That's always been a quirky Mac thing that drives me a bit nuts.

I finally said "screw it" and bought [url="http://agilewebsolutions.com/products/1Password"]1Password[/url]...

[BengalsOwn]

[quote name='Elflocko' date='23 July 2009 - 12:48 PM' timestamp='1248364104' post='786154']
Not without clicking on the drop-down. That's always been a quirky Mac thing that drives me a bit nuts.

I finally said "screw it" and bought [url="http://agilewebsolutions.com/products/1Password"]1Password[/url]...
[/quote]

There goes any chance of me ever owning a mac.

That would drive me insane.

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='BengalsOwn' date='23 July 2009 - 12:12 PM' timestamp='1248372742' post='786182']
There goes any chance of me ever owning a mac.

That would drive me insane.
[/quote]


Yeah all the time you spend monitoring AV, spyware and zero day patches really compensates for that extra 2.5 seconds you might lose...

[BengalsOwn]

[quote name='Elflocko' date='23 July 2009 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1248376294' post='786196']
Yeah all the time you spend monitoring AV, spyware and zero day patches really compensates for that extra 2.5 seconds you might lose...
[/quote]

I never have problems, until my neighbor or sister bring their computer over for me to fix after being infested with spyware...A smart user doesn't have problems like that.

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='BengalsOwn' date='23 July 2009 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1248376686' post='786201']
I never have problems, until my neighbor or sister bring their computer over for me to fix after being infested with spyware...[b]A smart user doesn't have problems like that.[/b]
[/quote]


If there were that many out there I wouldn't have a job...

[Jason]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='23 July 2009 - 11:37 AM' timestamp='1248363459' post='786148']
being in ohio, whenever im filling out forms, i can tab to each line, do the address tab to the state, which is a drop down and hit "o" and ohio comes up and tab to the next line.. but since i got the mac, i cnat seem to do this, it tabs past the drop down to the next line, and i have to go click and scroll down like a sucker..

is this a setting i can adjust somewhere?
[/quote]

You should have an option for auto-fill forms. Fill it out with your info and when you have to fill out a form, once you start and tab it should take care of all of it for you.

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Jason' date='23 July 2009 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1248391028' post='786248']
You should have an option for auto-fill forms. Fill it out with your info and when you have to fill out a form, once you start and tab it should take care of all of it for you.
[/quote]

It's built-in, I just don't like using it. The browser get's compromised and there goes your data.

I just like having the additional application layer there including the password.

Again, highly paranoid...

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Elflocko' date='23 July 2009 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1248376294' post='786196']
Yeah all the time you spend monitoring AV, spyware and zero day patches really compensates for that extra 2.5 seconds you might lose...
[/quote]


OSX is great.. Having to pay super premium for x86 architecture because they lock you out of installing it on frankenstein PC's through some bios hack bullshit is not.

Apple should just allow PC owners to buy OSX, and continue selling their overpriced computers to people who don't know the difference, or don't know how to maintain or build their own PC's.

Except I guess that would mean they would have to work with a wider range of hardware options. Which is actually the very crux of my argument. Without the innovation that the PC has brought to the world of computers in both hardware and software, the computing world would be a much less interesting place.

Really, everyone hates on Gates, but IMO Jobbs is even more the tin horn dictator with all their proprietary BS.

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Lucid' date='24 July 2009 - 09:22 AM' timestamp='1248448926' post='786355']
OSX is great.. Having to pay super premium for x86 architecture because they lock you out of installing it on frankenstein PC's through some bios hack bullshit is not.

Apple should just allow PC owners to buy OSX, and continue selling their overpriced computers to people who don't know the difference, or don't know how to maintain or build their own PC's.

Except I guess that would mean they would have to work with a wider range of hardware options. Which is actually the very crux of my argument. Without the innovation that the PC has brought to the world of computers in both hardware and software, the computing world would be a much less interesting place.

Really, everyone hates on Gates, but IMO Jobbs is even more the tin horn dictator with all their proprietary BS.
[/quote]

You can install OS X on lots of x86 systems. Just Google "hackintosh". I've got it running on a Dell Optiplex 745 as we speak. And I like OS X because it is without a doubt the finest GUI implementation ever done for Unix. Period.

And your statement of the "innovation of the PC" is a misnomer. You allude that Windows and Bill Gates brought about innovation, when they have done more to stymie than propel. Intel, Unix and the open source community has done more to innovate than Gates and Balmer could ever dream.

First multi-user OS? Unix, not Microsoft.

First 64-bit OS? *NIX, not Microsoft.

Modern networking? *NIX, not Microsoft.

First consumer level GUI? Xerox and Apple, not Microsoft.

First truly ubiquitous web server? Apache, not Microsoft.

I could go on.

Had IBM not sent their Legal "B" team to work on that fateful day in 1981, Microsoft would be a footnote in computer history.

I will give them credit for homogenizing the consumer computing landscape, but they achieved this through illegal monopolistic practices and a deficient operating system in which security wasn't even an afterthought. These apologists who bleat "Well, just think what things would be like without Microsoft" or "Think how much worse things would be without MS".

Well, ever stop to think how much better things might have turned out [i]without[/i] MS?

Probably not...

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Elflocko' date='24 July 2009 - 12:57 PM' timestamp='1248451045' post='786366']
You can install OS X on lots of x86 systems. Just Google "hackintosh". I've got it running on a Dell Optiplex 745 as we speak. And I like OS X because it is without a doubt the finest GUI implementation ever done for Unix. Period.

And your statement of the "innovation of the PC" is a misnomer. You allude that Windows and Bill Gates brought about innovation, when they have done more to stymie than propel. Intel, Unix and the open source community has done more to innovate than Gates and Balmer could ever dream.

First multi-user OS? Unix, not Microsoft.

First 64-bit OS? *NIX, not Microsoft.

Modern networking? *NIX, not Microsoft.

First consumer level GUI? Xerox and Apple, not Microsoft.

First truly ubiquitous web server? Apache, not Microsoft.

I could go on.

Had IBM not sent their Legal "B" team to work on that fateful day in 1981, Microsoft would be a footnote in computer history.

I will give them credit for homogenizing the consumer computing landscape, but they achieved this through illegal monopolistic practices and a deficient operating system in which security wasn't even an afterthought. These apologists who bleat "Well, just think what things would be like without Microsoft" or "Think how much worse things would be without MS".

Well, ever stop to think how much better things might have turned out [i]without[/i] MS?

Probably not...
[/quote]

You completely mistake my meaning... I said PC and specifically [b]NOT[/b] Microsoft.. And spare me the history lesson, computers are my life man... I started on GEnie with a 1200b acoustic coupling. I grew up with Apple, and am very familiar with the original Xerox lawsuit.

Microsoft is just one of the many companies that have prospered from the open PC platform. You know that little upstart named Nvidia? Maybe never would have happened under the old [b]IBM[/b] proprietary model.

MANY MANY software and hardware innovations have come about because of the open and free PC platform. As a fellow Unix guy you should appreciate the power of an open business model. Where anyone with a good idea can make a contribution.

BTW, Hackintosh is lame.. Trust me I have looked into it.. I could get a box running, but really, what would be the point?

[|Elflocko|]

[quote]Really, everyone hates on Gates, [/quote]


I keyed in on that because there is good reason to.

[quote]I could get a box running, but really, what would be the point? [/quote]


Uhm, to run the OS for $800 instead of $2,000...?


[quote]And spare me the history lesson, computers are my life man... [/quote]

Do you work in the industry or are you a hobbyist?

Not in any way meant to be a slam mind you, it's just that when you have to put up with the licensing costs, security issues, etc it tends to give you a different perspective...

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Elflocko' date='24 July 2009 - 01:29 PM' timestamp='1248452982' post='786370']
I keyed in on that because there is good reason to.




Uhm, to run the OS for $800 instead of $2,000...?




Do you work in the industry or are you a hobbyist?

Not in any way meant to be a slam mind you, it's just that when you have to put up with the licensing costs, security issues, etc it tends to give you a different perspective...
[/quote]

I'm an engineer.. So yes. But I am also a hobbyist. It's pretty much all I do.. Compute all day, go home and compute till I pass out. My parents keep telliong me skin is beginning to glow..



And for a corporate environment Apple can make good sense, although if I had my druthers I would simply go with Ubuntu (awesome BTW, I am loving my new install).

I don't have a problem with Macintosh.. But I thin it's more the elitist attitude of some Mac heads can piss me off... I really should just laugh at them because they generally don't know enough to even explain where I am coming from. And in a way, it scares me to think of Apple taking too much market share because proprietary models always stifle innovation..

And say what you want about MS, I will probably agree.. But BG's "embrace and extend" philosophy was a brilliant business model. Which although evil in it's own way, at least did promote good tech advances to some degree (although those crushed under the MS jackboot probably have a different opinion.)

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Lucid' date='24 July 2009 - 10:41 AM' timestamp='1248453685' post='786372']
I'm an engineer.. So yes. But I am also a hobbyist. It's pretty much all I do.. Compute all day, go home and compute till I pass out. My parents keep telliong me skin is beginning to glow..



And for a corporate environment Apple can make good sense, although if I had my druthers I would simply go with Ubuntu (awesome BTW, I am loving my new install).

I don't have a problem with Macintosh.. But I thin it's more the elitist attitude of some Mac heads can piss me off... I really should just laugh at them because they generally don't know enough to even explain where I am coming from. And in a way, it scares me to think of Apple taking too much market share because proprietary models always stifle innovation..

And say what you want about MS, I will probably agree.. But BG's "embrace and extend" philosophy was a brilliant business model. Which although evil in it's own way, at least did promote good tech advances to some degree (although those crushed under the MS jackboot probably have a different opinion.)
[/quote]

Awesome.

And good to know.

And as far as Apple in the enterprise, meh. I'd still probably lean towards Linux as well, but a large part of that market share growth is with people like us who do know what they're doing so hopefully that will help counteract some of the clueless masses. I've always contended that if the OSS community could come up with a viable alternative to AD and Exchange, M$ would be crushed within a decade.

And as you can tell, I'm not your typical Mac head; I spend more time in a BASH shell than most. I just like the fact that I can use and test every OS known to man on my MBP via virtualization. That and it's really fucking fast.

As for Ubuntu, 9.04 is a freak of nature. Boot time from splash screen to login on an i7 is about 3 seconds.

And I'm the exact same way. I spend 8-12 hours a day working on computers and servers, go home, grab a beer and open my laptop.

I think it's a disease. But a good, non-burning-when-I-pee disease.

Now back to trying to install Snort on a XenServer host without fucking it up...

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Elflocko' date='24 July 2009 - 01:58 PM' timestamp='1248454737' post='786376']
Awesome.

And good to know.

And as far as Apple in the enterprise, meh. I'd still probably lean towards Linux as well, but a large part of that market share growth is with people like us who do know what they're doing so hopefully that will help counteract some of the clueless masses. [b]I've always contended that if the OSS community could come up with a viable alternative to AD and Exchange, M$ would be crushed within a decade.[/b]

And as you can tell, I'm not your typical Mac head; I spend more time in a BASH shell than most. I just like the fact that I can use and test every OS known to man on my MBP via virtualization. That and it's really fucking fast.

As for Ubuntu, 9.04 is a freak of nature. Boot time from splash screen to login on an i7 is about 3 seconds.

And I'm the exact same way. I spend 8-12 hours a day working on computers and servers, go home, grab a beer and open my laptop.

I think it's a disease. But a good, non-burning-when-I-pee disease.

Now back to trying to install Snort on a XenServer host without fucking it up...
[/quote]

Completely agree. People laughed at Bill Gates when he took the stand (anti-trust lawsuit) and said that Microsoft was not as secure in it's market share as people thought and that they were under serious threat of obsolescence at almost every turn. But it's entirely accurate. Bill knew he was up against an army of people world wide trying to do MS in (for good reason). He used it as justification for the skulduggery they had engaged in.

I used to absolutely despise Bill Gates.. But I like him more and more the longer he is away from Microsoft... To be honest, I bet he would be cool to hang out with (in a stodgy old nerd kind of way), now that I know he isn't really the Emperor dressed up as Darth Vador pretending to be Johnny Appleseed.

[-GoBengals-]

Ibought a Mac, for the following reasons, after laughing at mac users for years:

1. Performance. I ran some basic tasks on my desktop with a core 2 duo and 4gb ram and on a macbook pro with a core 2 duo (both 2.4ghz) and 2gb ram., and the macbook pro did it more efficiently, noticeably. making constant attempts to trip down windows machine and startup programs became a waste of time for me. every progrm you install, including basic shit like adobe acrobat reader, etc, constantly was to launch on startup and run in the background, etc..
2. Convenience/functionality. I have never had a backup utility and router work so well as my time capsule does, including the external drives i backup my backups on.
2a. Size, thinnest latptop and quite light, great screen, no bulky drive popping out that can break(i realize pc notebooks offer this, but only some)
3. Cost - honestly, the cost is the same in notebooks, desktop completely different story. but if you go to IBM.com or dell.com and pick the thinnest performance model, and select all of the same hardware upgrades, your within $200 in cost. and the lack of need for any utility program or antivirus makes that cost up in about 6 months.
4. Ease of use for family. My wife is doing photography and some photoshop work, my kids are using computers regularly, OSX is far more intuitive and user friendly than any windows version I have seen.
4a. durability, the magnetic power adapter has saved my macbook pro at least 15 times, with a 2 yr old and a 4 yr old running around even being careful with it doesnt always work out...my dell would ahve been shattered by now, likely why the charging port on it was cracked as well..
5. style. they do look sweet.

the above is well worth the couple bucks price difference. I am on the verge of buying a mac mini for a little media server and kids pc to use on the TV...download movies and stuff from vuze for them to watch via the xbox or directly on the tv...

I cant stand the d-bags i run into at work, who just bought a mac, and know nothing about it other than they paid a lot and got it at that cool store at the mall.

somewhere in the conversation they often say something like "i keep my windows laptop too so i can do word and outlook email"

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='24 July 2009 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1248457803' post='786389']
Ibought a Mac, for the following reasons, [b]after laughing at mac users for years[/b]:

I cant stand the d-bags i run into at work, who just bought a mac, and know nothing about it other than they paid a lot and got it at that cool store at the mall.

somewhere in the conversation they often say something like "i keep my windows laptop too so i can do word and outlook email"
[/quote]


Apple could probably increase their market share by an additional 10-15% if so many or their current users weren't such douche bags...

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='24 July 2009 - 02:50 PM' timestamp='1248457803' post='786389']
Ibought a Mac, for the following reasons, after laughing at mac users for years:

1. Performance. I ran some basic tasks on my desktop with a core 2 duo and 4gb ram and on a macbook pro with a core 2 duo (both 2.4ghz) and 2gb ram., and the macbook pro did it more efficiently, noticeably. making constant attempts to trip down windows machine and startup programs became a waste of time for me. every progrm you install, including basic shit like adobe acrobat reader, etc, constantly was to launch on startup and run in the background, etc..
2. Convenience/functionality. I have never had a backup utility and router work so well as my time capsule does, including the external drives i backup my backups on.
2a. Size, thinnest latptop and quite light, great screen, no bulky drive popping out that can break(i realize pc notebooks offer this, but only some)
3. Cost - honestly, the cost is the same in notebooks, desktop completely different story. but if you go to IBM.com or dell.com and pick the thinnest performance model, and select all of the same hardware upgrades, your within $200 in cost. and the lack of need for any utility program or antivirus makes that cost up in about 6 months.
4. Ease of use for family. My wife is doing photography and some photoshop work, my kids are using computers regularly, OSX is far more intuitive and user friendly than any windows version I have seen.
4a. durability, the magnetic power adapter has saved my macbook pro at least 15 times, with a 2 yr old and a 4 yr old running around even being careful with it doesnt always work out...my dell would ahve been shattered by now, likely why the charging port on it was cracked as well..
5. style. they do look sweet.

the above is well worth the couple bucks price difference. I am on the verge of buying a mac mini for a little media server and kids pc to use on the TV...download movies and stuff from vuze for them to watch via the xbox or directly on the tv...

I cant stand the d-bags i run into at work, who just bought a mac, and know nothing about it other than they paid a lot and got it at that cool store at the mall.

somewhere in the conversation they often say something like "i keep my windows laptop too so i can do word and outlook email"
[/quote]

Macbooks are an ENTIRELY different story.. Laptops are a beast in and of themselves. All the things I have said about Macs refer strictly to the desktops. Like I said, it's a good solution for some people.. The big thing for me is gaming. I am definitely a power gamer. I don't watch TV (except sports) so gaming is my "fuck off time" activity. If I didn't game, I would run nothing but Linux without a doubt.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Elflocko' date='24 July 2009 - 02:54 PM' timestamp='1248458071' post='786391']
Apple could probably increase their market share by an additional 10-15% if so many or their current users weren't such douche bags...
[/quote]


Yeah, and their "I'm a PC; and I'm a MAC" marketing campaign completely reinforces the douchbaggery (god I hate those commercials!).

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Lucid' date='24 July 2009 - 02:12 PM' timestamp='1248459173' post='786395']
Yeah, and their "I'm a PC; and I'm a MAC" marketing campaign completely reinforces the douchbaggery (god I hate those commercials!).
[/quote]

i hated them, but now the "im a pc" commercials take the cake..

"hey, im a fool who doesnt know anything about computers, i want a really shitty one thats shinny!, the mac is pricey, ill get the 17" HP with 2gb ram!!1111" OMF WTF BBQ you guys paid me for it!!111

Version 2: "im too stupid to make an informed decision of what i want or need, im just cheap and want to spend $500 on whatever looks best" "OMG YOU GUYS BOUGHT IT!!!11111

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='24 July 2009 - 03:20 PM' timestamp='1248459617' post='786399']
i hated them, but now the "im a pc" commercials take the cake..

"hey, im a fool who doesnt know anything about computers, i want a really shitty one thats shinny!, the mac is pricey, ill get the 17" HP with 2gb ram!!1111" OMF WTF BBQ you guys paid me for it!!111

Version 2: "im too stupid to make an informed decision of what i want or need, im just cheap and want to spend $500 on whatever looks best" "OMG YOU GUYS BOUGHT IT!!!11111
[/quote]


They would probably bother me to if I saw one every time I watched TV.. For awhile there it was constant. Plus at least the PC commercials make an attempt (a lame one) at product comparison.. The Mac commercials are pretty much "I'm a PC and I'm a dork" and "I'm a Mac, I'm really hip, artsy and cool".

Although I pretty much never watch live TV (DVR buffered always) because commercial inevitably urge me to begin throwing things at my TV = "Fuck you and your lame attempt to lie and manipulate me!!"

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Lucid' date='24 July 2009 - 12:10 PM' timestamp='1248459057' post='786393']
Macbooks are an ENTIRELY different story.. Laptops are a beast in and of themselves. [b]All the things I have said about Macs refer strictly to the desktops.[/b] Like I said, it's a good solution for some people.. The big thing for me is gaming. I am definitely a power gamer. I don't watch TV (except sports) so gaming is my "fuck off time" activity. If I didn't game, I would run nothing but Linux without a doubt.
[/quote]


Well, this thread would have been [b]much[/b] shorter had I known that...

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Elflocko' date='24 July 2009 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1248460673' post='786407']
Well, this thread would have been [b]much[/b] shorter had I known that...
[/quote]


Oh BTW... You know that Xerox contends that Apple stole the idea of a GUI from them... Apple won the lawsuit... And, here's the glorious irony of it all... When Apple sued HP and Microsoft over Windows they were heard by the same judge that oversaw the Xerox lawsuit.

Sorry for the delay, but you had so misinterpreted my original statements that the minutia of your argument was lost on me... I figure you know this already, but I always found it funny as hell.

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Lucid' date='24 July 2009 - 12:54 PM' timestamp='1248461649' post='786410']
Oh BTW... You know that Xerox contends that Apple stole the idea of a GUI from them... Apple won the lawsuit... And, here's the glorious irony of it all... When Apple sued HP and Microsoft over Windows they were heard by the same judge that oversaw the Xerox lawsuit.

Sorry for the delay, but you had so misinterpreted my original statements that the minutia of your argument was lost on me... I figure you know this already, but I always found it funny as hell.
[/quote]


Xerox's case was dismissed because the statute of limitations had expired, not because of the legitimacy (or lack thereof) of their case.

And Xerox received Apple stock in exchange for engineering visits to PARC and full understanding that Apple was going to be creating a GUI...

**Edit**

But yeah, I appreciate the irony...

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Elflocko' date='24 July 2009 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1248464373' post='786416']
Xerox's case was dismissed because the statute of limitations had expired, not because of the legitimacy (or lack thereof) of their case.

And Xerox received Apple stock in exchange for engineering visits to PARC and full understanding that Apple was going to be creating a GUI...

**Edit**

But yeah, I appreciate the irony...
[/quote]

Well, no one "won" the Apple/MS/HP lawsuit either. They settled out of court by making intellectual property agreements.. MS develops office for Mac, Apple uses IE. Etc..

I was actually trying to avoid particulars about the lawsuit.. It was the judge aspect I found amusing.