Zimmer wants more from Bengal defense

[oldschooler]

[size="5"][b]Zimmer wants more from Bengal defense[/b]
[/size]By Joe Reedy • [email="jreedy@enquirer.com"][color="#000000"]jreedy@enquirer.com[/color][/email] • July 29, 2009


Throughout the offseason Bengals fans have been mostly fixated on Carson Palmer's elbow, Chad Ochocinco's Tweeting and concerns about reviving the offense.
triggerAd(1,PaginationPage,4);



But for those making the trek to Georgetown, Ky., for training camp that officially opens Thursday, there should be plenty of competition on defense.

Going into Friday's first practice, coordinator Mike Zimmer and his staff have plenty of areas with position battles, which is good news for a unit that finished 12th in the league in total defense last season, its highest ranking since 2001.

"It's a pretty good problem to have," Zimmer said on Tuesday during the team's pre-training camp luncheon.

"We've got a pretty deep group at linebacker. On the line there's going to be one guy whose a pretty good player whose probably not going to make the club and safety looks pretty full also."



Like the offense, the defense suffered its share of injuries last year with seven starters missing 36 games. But for all the injuries, the defense got better during the second half of the season and Zimmer found some young players to build with this season.



Brandon Johnson emerged as a solid player at one of the outside linebacker spots, and safety Chris Crocker, who signed at midseason, made an impact with his aggressive play. While only 11 can play at one time, Zimmer does have a core of 18-20 players that he can rotate in various packages.



"Some good came out of it down the road, but you never want those things to happen," said Zimmer of the injuries.



"We have an idea of what they can do and how we can use them."



Among the younger group that Zimmer expects good things from is Keith Rivers. Although Rivers rarely played on third down last year as a rookie, Zimmer is looking for ways to use him in more pressure situations this year.



The group that might have the most pressure is the defensive line. Ends Antwan Odom and Robert Geathers missed significant time due to injuries last year but Zimmer was happy with the play of left tackle Domata Peko, whom he said had an unsung season, and Pat Sims, who is ahead of free-agent signing Tank Johnson on the depth chart at right tackle.




"We have to get the ends playing better. It's a good nucleus to have around, but we have to have the ability to do it better on Sundays," Zimmer said.



"All these guys, we've been in shorts so long. I want to go out and hit someone. That's what we need to do. We need to find out what happens when a guy hits back."



While the Bengals were among the league leaders in their tendency to zone blitz – Football Outsiders had them ranked second at 10 percent – the line struggled to get much pressure. The only group that had much success with sacks were the defensive backs, who led the league with 26.5 percent of the team's sacks.



Two other positions that expect to see the most competition is outside linebacker, where Rashad Jeanty and rookie Rey Maualuga will battle, and free safety, where Roy Williams is ahead of Chinedum Ndukwe.



Since Williams signed in May, Zimmer has been happy with his progress, especially in conditioning where he has lost 15 pounds.



"He's committed to what he wants to do, and if he can do that he will be a big hitter for us and an asset especially in this division," Zimmer said.



With Zimmer in his first season with the Bengals last year, the unit was a bit tentative early in the season. He stressed stopping the run, and they got better especially over the last seven weeks when they allowed only 3.3 yards per carry.



Football Outsiders, which uses a variety of metrics to measure defenses, had the Bengals third best against the run in the second half. Overall, they ranked it 16th, which was an 11-position improvement over 2007.



One other area where Zimmer is well versed in knowledge is "Hard Knocks." He was the defensive coordinator in Dallas in 2002 and says he will take a different approach this year.



When asked how he felt about the series, Zimmer said: "I'm melancholy I guess. I understand the benefits and negative things because I've been through before. This time I'll do things differently. When I have to turn the microphone off I will to make some points."




[url="http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090729/SPT02/307290071/1066/Zimmer+wants+more+from+defense"]http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090729/SPT02/307290071/1066/Zimmer+wants+more+from+defense[/url]

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote]On the line there's going to be one guy whose a pretty good player whose probably not going to make the club[/quote]

Hmmm, I wonder if he is talking about Shirley? I hope not because he's got lots of potential, but unlike years past atleast we aren't COUNTING on potential from a later round pick to help make us much better on D this year.

[cincity]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' date='30 July 2009 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1248956821' post='787084']
Hmmm, I wonder if he is talking about Shirley? I hope not because he's got lots of potential, but unlike years past atleast we aren't COUNTING on potential from a later round pick to help make us much better on D this year.
[/quote]

I think it may be either Rucker or Fananae.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' date='30 July 2009 - 09:27 AM' timestamp='1248956821' post='787084']
Hmmm, I wonder if he is talking about Shirley? I hope not because he's got lots of potential, but unlike years past atleast we aren't COUNTING on potential from a later round pick to help make us much better on D this year.
[/quote]

I don't know that the was talking about anyone specifically, but rather stating we have more good players than we have spots.

Hopefully some of our good players develop into great players this year.

[Bengalnutt]

[quote name='cincity' date='30 July 2009 - 09:02 AM' timestamp='1248958943' post='787086']
I think it may be either Rucker or Fananae.
[/quote]

... I hope not I like those two. It seems when they are on the field they make plays...

[BengalBrandon]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' date='30 July 2009 - 09:27 AM' timestamp='1248956821' post='787084']
Hmmm, I wonder if he is talking about Shirley? I hope not because he's got lots of potential, but unlike years past atleast we aren't COUNTING on potential from a later round pick to help make us much better on D this year.
[/quote]

There is almost no chance they are going to cut Shirley. He has too much size and strength and is so raw that you cant give up on him after one season.

[Jason]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='30 July 2009 - 10:10 AM' timestamp='1248963020' post='787100']
I don't know that the was talking about anyone specifically, but rather stating we have more good players than we have spots.

Hopefully some of our good players develop into great players this year.
[/quote]

ding ding ding

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='BengalBrandon' date='30 July 2009 - 11:35 AM' timestamp='1248964544' post='787111']
There is almost no chance they are going to cut Shirley. He has too much size and strength and is so raw that you cant give up on him after one season.
[/quote]
I agree with the idea, but Zim is saying that there is tons of talent there and a good player is likely to get cut...so if Shirley is still behind Fanene and Rucker in terms of his transition to the pros as well as helping us this year (read: not as good), does it make sense to cut the better players just to keep the down the road potential?

[GoCommando]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' date='30 July 2009 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1248970193' post='787146']
I agree with the idea, but Zim is saying that there is tons of talent there and a good player is likely to get cut...so if Shirley is still behind Fanene and Rucker in terms of his transition to the pros as well as helping us this year (read: not as good), does it make sense to cut the better players just to keep the down the road potential?
[/quote]
Yes, because they cant make plays from the trainers table.

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='GoCommando' date='30 July 2009 - 01:16 PM' timestamp='1248970575' post='787149']
Yes, because they cant make plays from the trainers table.
[/quote]
So you'd cut a better player who is currently healthy because he's been hurt in the past, over a (for lack of a better word) worse player because he's never been hurt (which might be due to him not playing at all).

I like Shirley, don't get me wrong, but if he is the worst lineman in training camp (including that 7th rd DT we took) then by all means i'm ok with letting him go because frankly he wouldn't be progressing fast enough for my taste.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='30 July 2009 - 08:21 AM' timestamp='1248956478' post='787083']
[size="5"][b]Zimmer wants more from Bengal defense[/b]
[/size]By Joe Reedy • [email="jreedy@enquirer.com"][color="#000000"]jreedy@enquirer.com[/color][/email] • July 29, 2009






"All these guys, we've been in shorts so long. I want to go out and hit someone. That's what we need to do. We need to find out what happens when a guy hits back."




[url="http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090729/SPT02/307290071/1066/Zimmer+wants+more+from+defense"]http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090729/SPT02/307290071/1066/Zimmer+wants+more+from+defense[/url]
[/quote]
Favorite quote from the article!