happyrid Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Cheers all. I haven't been around a ton this season because I find the bickering and scapegoating (some justified, some no) of players and coaches excruciating. But I do love being around in the offseason to debate what moves need to be made and which draft picks would be best, etc. The strange thing though is that I was so [b]wrong[/b] last year about what needed to be done, that I'm not sure I even trust my own opinions anymore. I remember quite specifically that I started a thread with my list of [b][u]3 tasks that I wanted done last year: [/u][/b] [b]1. On Defense: Retain Zimmer (and Tank, Roy, etc.) and make some minor additions through the draft in the mid-rounds.[/b] Bengals did this extremely well with a multi-year deal for Zim, retaining every single FA starter and adding Dunlap, Atkins, Muckelroy, Ghee, etc. in the draft. [b] 2. On Offense: Add playmakers at WR and TE for Carson through FA and the draft.[/b] Bengals signed the consensus top 2 FA WRs (Bryant and TO). They drafted the consensus #1 TE (Gresham). And added a nice little slot weapon in Shipley just for good measure. They pretty much did what I wanted them to do here. [b]3. Cross your fingers and pray Carson gets his mojo back.[/b] This wasn't exactly a personnel move, but I could see something wasn't quite right with Carson at the end of last year and whatever it was he lost, he needed to get it back. Didn't happen but not the Bengals fault. Anyway, the long and short of it is that the Bengals did almost [b]EXACTLY[/b] what I wanted them to do last offseason. They did what I argued for here (specifically with drafting Gresham). Yet it led to an abject failure on the field. I have some opinions on what they should do this offseason and part of me is looking forward to putting those opinions out there and debating them, seeing if anyone changes my mind and/or if I can change anyone else's mind. But maybe they should just do the opposite of what I'm thinking, since last year's offseason [b]"Succcess"[/b] in my mind ended up being a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mroby85 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Its funny how that works out, Although I still don't think Gresham was a bad pick. I wanted him going into the draft until Dez Bryant dropped to our slot, but im still okay with them taking him. I'm excited about our young targets with Gresham, Shipley, and especially Jerome Simpson. The best move would be to make Marvin a GM and hire a new coach, but I think its obvious that won't happen. After seeing Carson the last couple weeks with new targets, I'd like to see him get one more season, but i'm not going to lie, a few weeks ago I was ready to move on and draft a new QB. I think its very important that they let Ocho walk. He's more of an entertainer than a football player. He completely disappears in games, and I think hes been greatly overrated the last several years because of his personality. Despite how much he will try to make people believe it, hes not a gamechanging reciever, and he's also a distraction in my opinion, interested in extracurriculars more than football. I think the draft could go many directions. You could make an argument for AJ Green, Fairley, or even Cam Newton. While it would be risky, there is no denying he has the potential to be a protype at QB. Watching him take over the game against a defense like Alabama made me wonder what he could do at this level. I'd like to see Cedric Benson brought back in, Bernard Scott obviously can't carry the load by himself, if they let Ced go they're going to need to draft a RB fairly high, maybe 2nd round? Id prefer to just bring Benson back. JJo also needs to be a priority. Him and Hall are the staples of this defense. Bob Bratkowski should be gone. I don't even feel like this needs an explanation. Those are my thoughts for the most part at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I haven't been able to figure out this team since Marvin blew it up a few years back. So, I've been coasting just watching what happens and putting my faith in the coaches to get it done, ...they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwing Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1294080072' post='956931'] Cheers all. I haven't been around a ton this season because I find the bickering and scapegoating (some justified, some no) of players and coaches excruciating. But I do love being around in the offseason to debate what moves need to be made and which draft picks would be best, etc. The strange thing though is that I was so [b]wrong[/b] last year about what needed to be done, that I'm not sure I even trust my own opinions anymore. I remember quite specifically that I started a thread with my list of [b][u]3 tasks that I wanted done last year: [/u][/b] [b]1. On Defense: Retain Zimmer (and Tank, Roy, etc.) and make some minor additions through the draft in the mid-rounds.[/b] Bengals did this extremely well with a multi-year deal for Zim, retaining every single FA starter and adding Dunlap, Atkins, Muckelroy, Ghee, etc. in the draft. [b] 2. On Offense: Add playmakers at WR and TE for Carson through FA and the draft.[/b] Bengals signed the consensus top 2 FA WRs (Bryant and TO). They drafted the consensus #1 TE (Gresham). And added a nice little slot weapon in Shipley just for good measure. They pretty much did what I wanted them to do here. [b]3. Cross your fingers and pray Carson gets his mojo back.[/b] This wasn't exactly a personnel move, but I could see something wasn't quite right with Carson at the end of last year and whatever it was he lost, he needed to get it back. Didn't happen but not the Bengals fault. Anyway, the long and short of it is that the Bengals did almost [b]EXACTLY[/b] what I wanted them to do last offseason. They did what I argued for here (specifically with drafting Gresham). Yet it led to an abject failure on the field. I have some opinions on what they should do this offseason and part of me is looking forward to putting those opinions out there and debating them, seeing if anyone changes my mind and/or if I can change anyone else's mind. But maybe they should just do the opposite of what I'm thinking, since last year's offseason [b]"Succcess"[/b] in my mind ended up being a disaster. [/quote] Sadly the needs remain the same from 2008. Many, including myself may argue since 2006. $100M spent on the Qb and the focus should ALWAYS be on protection. Average wideouts/Rb's become very good to great with a great oline. Offense; Decide whom you want to be and fix the oline to match. Defense; Safety, MLB and a difference maker in the front 7. Maybe some of these answers on on the roster. Maybe not. Go get guys to push those already on the roster. One thing that will help them in 2011 ------ last place schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Moves were fine. Coaches didn't get it done. How many games did they lose by 8 or less? I can't and will never understand why anybody would want Marv back. Returning Division champ. Front office gives them 1. A new WR 983 yards 9 TDs. WR 1 and 2 go for 1800 combined and 13 TDs so it wasn't a case of one doing great and the other falling completely off the map. 2. A new #1 TE and #3 TD. Over 1,000 yards and 7 more Tds. (Points 1&2 helped QB throw over 3900 yards and they still recorded a 1,000 yard rusher) 3. A 3rd round pick and former top 10 pick just to be your 3rd and 4th CBs 4. A former first round pick to be your 3rd safety 5. 2 front seven players that give you 12.5 sacks A O-line that gave up 1 less sack while throwing over 100 times more and playing more 3 wide formations. 4 wins? Red Zone, 3rd downs, Negative plays, Skill guy communication problems, penalties which is says alot about coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwing Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='mroby85' timestamp='1294080777' post='956937'] Its funny how that works out, Although I still don't think Gresham was a bad pick. I wanted him going into the draft until Dez Bryant dropped to our slot, but im still okay with them taking him. I'm excited about our young targets with Gresham, Shipley, and especially Jerome Simpson. The best move would be to make Marvin a GM and hire a new coach, but I think its obvious that won't happen. After seeing Carson the last couple weeks with new targets, I'd like to see him get one more season, but i'm not going to lie, a few weeks ago I was ready to move on and draft a new QB. I think its very important that they let Ocho walk. He's more of an entertainer than a football player. He completely disappears in games, and I think hes been greatly overrated the last several years because of his personality. Despite how much he will try to make people believe it, hes not a gamechanging reciever, and he's also a distraction in my opinion, interested in extracurriculars more than football. I think the draft could go many directions. You could make an argument for AJ Green, Fairley, or even Cam Newton. While it would be risky, there is no denying he has the potential to be a protype at QB. Watching him take over the game against a defense like Alabama made me wonder what he could do at this level. I'd like to see Cedric Benson brought back in, Bernard Scott obviously can't carry the load by himself, if they let Ced go they're going to need to draft a RB fairly high, maybe 2nd round? Id prefer to just bring Benson back. JJo also needs to be a priority. Him and Hall are the staples of this defense. Bob Bratkowski should be gone. I don't even feel like this needs an explanation. Those are my thoughts for the most part at this point. [/quote] Former GM's on NFL Network having a round table prior to the draft. I do not recall whom all were there but there were about 4-5 of them. Not discussing any specific team. Per their discussion, one of the top 5 draft don't ---- taking a TE in the 1st round. Why ? First round pick for a 3rd - 5th option in the offense is not good value in the first round. I think Gresham will be very good, maybe great. However, never use a first rounder for a 3rd option or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='cwing' timestamp='1294082055' post='956953'] Former GM's on NFL Network having a round table prior to the draft. I do not recall whom all were there but there were about 4-5 of them. Not discussing any specific team. Per their discussion, one of the top 5 draft don't ---- taking a TE in the 1st round. Why ? First round pick for a 3rd - 5th option in the offense is not good value in the first round. [b]I think Gresham will be very good, maybe great. However, never use a first rounder for a 3rd option or less.[/b] [/quote] they're only the 3rd option if you make them the 3rd option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah15 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='mroby85' timestamp='1294080777' post='956937'] Its funny how that works out, Although I still don't think Gresham was a bad pick. I wanted him going into the draft until Dez Bryant dropped to our slot, but im still okay with them taking him. I'm excited about our young targets with Gresham, Shipley, and especially Jerome Simpson. The best move would be to make Marvin a GM and hire a new coach, but I think its obvious that won't happen. After seeing Carson the last couple weeks with new targets, I'd like to see him get one more season, but i'm not going to lie, a few weeks ago I was ready to move on and draft a new QB. I think its very important that they let Ocho walk. He's more of an entertainer than a football player. He completely disappears in games, and I think hes been greatly overrated the last several years because of his personality. Despite how much he will try to make people believe it, hes not a gamechanging reciever, and he's also a distraction in my opinion, interested in extracurriculars more than football. I think the draft could go many directions. You could make an argument for AJ Green, Fairley, or even Cam Newton. While it would be risky, there is no denying he has the potential to be a protype at QB. Watching him take over the game against a defense like Alabama made me wonder what he could do at this level. I'd like to see Cedric Benson brought back in, Bernard Scott obviously can't carry the load by himself, if they let Ced go they're going to need to draft a RB fairly high, maybe 2nd round? Id prefer to just bring Benson back. JJo also needs to be a priority. Him and Hall are the staples of this defense. Bob Bratkowski should be gone. I don't even feel like this needs an explanation. Those are my thoughts for the most part at this point. [/quote] My thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubdub Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 This year is on the coaching. The one thing that didn't change from 2009 to 2010. We just caught the breaks in 09 but in 10 we had a much harder schedule. The offense was not able to adjust and the defense didn't put the right people in the front seven until injuries forced the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted January 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='mroby85' timestamp='1294080777' post='956937'] Its funny how that works out, Although I still don't think Gresham was a bad pick. I wanted him going into the draft until Dez Bryant dropped to our slot, but im still okay with them taking him. I'm excited about our young targets with Gresham, Shipley, and especially Jerome Simpson. The best move would be to make Marvin a GM and hire a new coach, but I think its obvious that won't happen. After seeing Carson the last couple weeks with new targets, I'd like to see him get one more season, but i'm not going to lie, a few weeks ago I was ready to move on and draft a new QB. I think its very important that they let Ocho walk. He's more of an entertainer than a football player. He completely disappears in games, and I think hes been greatly overrated the last several years because of his personality. Despite how much he will try to make people believe it, hes not a gamechanging reciever, and he's also a distraction in my opinion, interested in extracurriculars more than football. I think the draft could go many directions. You could make an argument for AJ Green, Fairley, or even Cam Newton. While it would be risky, there is no denying he has the potential to be a protype at QB. Watching him take over the game against a defense like Alabama made me wonder what he could do at this level. I'd like to see Cedric Benson brought back in, Bernard Scott obviously can't carry the load by himself, if they let Ced go they're going to need to draft a RB fairly high, maybe 2nd round? Id prefer to just bring Benson back. JJo also needs to be a priority. Him and Hall are the staples of this defense. Bob Bratkowski should be gone. I don't even feel like this needs an explanation. Those are my thoughts for the most part at this point. [/quote] It's funny, but this is almost exactly what I was going to post (before realizing that they did what I wanted last year and it didn't work). You hit all of my main thoughts dead on: 1. I'm indifferent on Marvin, but Brat has to go. 2. Ocho has to go, he's too much of a distraction and isn't even that good anymore. 3. Have to go all out to re-sign JoJo and Cedric. (Nothing will piss me off more than letting JoJo walk and then taking a CB #4. I will fucking lose it.) 4. Fill as many of the holes (S, OG, WR, LB) as possible in free agency with reasonably priced guys. 5. Draft Cam Newton or AJ Green if they wow you and you feel great about them. If not, draft one of the top D Linemen. (I don't think the biggest holes (interior OL, Safety, LB) can be addressed at #4. 6. Hope and pray Carson plays better without the T. Ocho headache and with improved OL play/emphasis on run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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