Let's talk about the 2017 Draft

[JC]

TJ Watt. Please. Somehow.

[akiliMVP]

Mike Williams is hella impressive

[Jason]

1 hour ago, akiliMVP said:

Mike Williams is hella impressive

I watched some of the Clemson game last night. I admit I haven't seen much of him or Clemson at all, but I wasn't overly impressed.

I noticed on plays where he wasn't the primary target he didn't come off the line hard.  I'll see a lot more of him in a few weeks though.

[JC]

After today, I'm looking at pass rush. It was good today, but this team looks so good when they are getting after the quarterback. Running back can't be out of the question either considering Jeremy looks more like the 2015 version rather than the 2014 version. 

[akiliMVP]

On 12/4/2016 at 4:15 PM, JC said:

After today, I'm looking at pass rush. It was good today, but this team looks so good when they are getting after the quarterback. Running back can't be out of the question either considering Jeremy looks more like the 2015 version rather than the 2014 version. 

Agreed it has to be a pass rusher. Biggest impact on the defense. Draft has a ton of pass rushers in the mid-early first area.

Myles Garrett, Derek Barnett, Tim Williams, Carl Lawson, Charles Harris.

[alleycat]

8 minutes ago, akiliMVP said:

Agreed it has to be a pass rusher. Biggest impact on the defense. Draft has a ton of pass rushers in the mid-early first area.

Myles Garrett, Derek Barnett, Tim Williams, Carl Lawson, Charles Harris.

We can all wish Myles Garrett will be there any time after #5, but it is very unlikely to happen.

Barnett will be in our range, but he's not a speed rusher, something i think we need.

Williams IS a speed rusher, but is he a 4-3 DE? You can ask the same of Lawson and Harris.

IF (and that's a big IF that I hope turns out not be the case) Marvin remains the coach here, I think you can turn your sights toward Barnett, Taco Charlton, and other guys who push 6-5 265lb or above. Sadly, those kinds of guys seldom come with true speed and bend. 

Putt me in the TJ Watt camp. I think he's just under 6-5 and he's only 245, but he's got very little experience playing the edge rusher spot, and he's ascending very quickly. Marvin WILL be seduced by the name. Maybe he'll see his failed David Pollack-always-looking-for-Peter-Boulware-test in TJ. 

Give this defense a new difference-making DT, RDE, and LB to go along with King Burfict, Dunlap, and Atkins and we'll be instantly elite. 

[akiliMVP]

9 minutes ago, alleycat said:

We can all wish Myles Garrett will be there any time after #5, but it is very unlikely to happen.

Barnett will be in our range, but he's not a speed rusher, something i think we need.

Williams IS a speed rusher, but is he a 4-3 DE? You can ask the same of Lawson and Harris.

IF (and that's a big IF that I hope turns out not be the case) Marvin remains the coach here, I think you can turn your sights toward Barnett, Taco Charlton, and other guys who push 6-5 265lb or above. Sadly, those kinds of guys seldom come with true speed and bend. 

Putt me in the TJ Watt camp. I think he's just under 6-5 and he's only 245, but he's got very little experience playing the edge rusher spot, and he's ascending very quickly. Marvin WILL be seduced by the name. Maybe he'll see his failed David Pollack-always-looking-for-Peter-Boulware-test in TJ. 

Give this defense a new difference-making DT, RDE, and LB to go along with King Burfict, Dunlap, and Atkins and we'll be instantly elite. 

I meant to add watt but the dog distracted me.

Agree garrett will be gone and is the only top guy who fits marvins mold. Barnett is a rich mans gilberry. Relentless motor and good in all facets despite less than ideal physical ability.

 

[Jason]

I'd be happy with Charlton or Watt in 2. I really want Ross or Foster in 1 at this point. 

[alleycat]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

I'd be happy with Charlton or Watt in 2. I really want Ross or Foster in 1 at this point. 

Those are probably my two end of first, top of second edge guys at this point as well, with obviously a lot more players to watch.

The big problem in this draft is we have 5 big needs for what should really only be 3, maybe 4 top picks (and that's being generous).

LB, DT, DE, WR and C.

Here's hoping we can trade AJ and/or find a trade down partner.

[Jason]

14 minutes ago, alleycat said:

Those are probably my two end of first, top of second edge guys at this point as well, with obviously a lot more players to watch.

The big problem in this draft is we have 5 big needs for what should really only be 3, maybe 4 top picks (and that's being generous).

LB, DT, DE, WR and C.

Here's hoping we can trade AJ and/or find a trade down partner.

As of now e could probably get Elflein in the top of 3.  I think we are OK at DT.

[alleycat]

20 hours ago, Jason said:

 I think we are OK at DT.

How on earth?

Other than Pat Sims, we won't have a single 1-tech on the roster.

Well, I guess you could say Billings but if the last TC was any indication, not only was he not a steal, but he got picked early in the 4th by us.

I've always liked Deshawn Williams as a 3tech, but that's what he is. And Hardison showed real, penetrating promise in TC, but there again, you've got a guy who is a 3 Tech...and one who hasn't been able to see a snap in 2 NFL seasons. 

IMO, this situation is a perfect mirror of the one we had with WR coming into this season. We can perfectly see from a mile away that we don't have the experience on the roster, but we're going to hope like hell (or convince ourselves) that the guys we have are actually going to step up to their potential. 

We will (or we should, at least), be pursuing a WR with elite deep speed again this year because we failed to address it last year, and our best-case hypothetical didn't materialize. 

[Jason]

4 minutes ago, alleycat said:

How on earth?

Other than Pat Sims, we won't have a single 1-tech on the roster.

Well, I guess you could say Billings but if the last TC was any indication, not only was he not a steal, but he got picked early in the 4th by us.

I've always liked Deshawn Williams as a 3tech, but that's what he is. And Hardison showed real, penetrating promise in TC, but there again, you've got a guy who is a 3 Tech...and one who hasn't been able to see a snap in 2 NFL seasons. 

IMO, this situation is a perfect mirror of the one we had with WR coming into this season. We can perfectly see from a mile away that we don't have the experience on the roster, but we're going to hope like hell (or convince ourselves) that the guys we have are actually going to step up to their potential. 

We will (or we should, at least), be pursuing a WR with elite deep speed again this year because we failed to address it last year, and our best-case hypothetical didn't materialize. 

We could probably use another NT type but that would not require a premium pick.

I think Geno, Sims, BT, Hardison, Billings, Williams, and maybe a 4 or 5 on a run stuffing NT and we would be just fine there if we added a quality speed rushing DE.

[akiliMVP]

Not really any nose tackle types in the first. Allen is a 3 tech and will be long gone by our pick. McDowell's best fit is as a 3-4 end.

Guess it all depends if the coaching staff feels Billings can handle it. If Marvin stays I could see Peko getting re-signed as well.

[alleycat]

1 hour ago, akiliMVP said:

Not really any nose tackle types in the first. Allen is a 3 tech and will be long gone by our pick. McDowell's best fit is as a 3-4 end.

Guess it all depends if the coaching staff feels Billings can handle it. If Marvin stays I could see Peko getting re-signed as well.

I disagree entirely on Allen as a 3T. I mean, sure, he can do it, but he can give you 1-tech snaps as well. He's a beast to move against the run, and that coupled with his pass rushing prowess as well as his ability to even give snaps at End are way many people have him #1 overall on this draft. 

I do not, however, disagree that he will be long gone

 

[alleycat]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

We could probably use another NT type but that would not require a premium pick.

I think Geno, Sims, BT, Hardison, Billings, Williams, and maybe a 4 or 5 on a run stuffing NT and we would be just fine there if we added a quality speed rushing DE.

All things being equal, I might prefer a DT next to Geno who can take the doubles off him and provide meaningful pass rush over a true DE. Just the way the draft is falling, this might be the season that that elusive OLB/DE Joker would be our best move. 4-3 DE's that have speed AND fit our system are simply so rare that I really do start to think that our defense is limited by the way its scheme fits the modern college game. 3-4 OLBs who can rush, however, are in ever-more plentiful supply.

I like TJ Watt a lot but I also would be a very happy man if we were to sign someone like Jamie Collins in FA. IMO, he would kill two birds with one stone for us, because he's both a quality pass coverage LB but a demon rushing the passer. 

 

[alleycat]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

we would be just fine there if we added a quality speed rushing DE.

BTW, Jason, who is that guy for you so far?

[Jason]

1 hour ago, alleycat said:

BTW, Jason, who is that guy for you so far?

I think the best guy we have a real shot at is Taco Charlton. I want either Ross or one of the top LBs in 1 unless Garrett somehow makes it to us which I really doubt. 

[alleycat]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

I think the best guy we have a real shot at is Taco Charlton. I want either Ross or one of the top LBs in 1 unless Garrett somehow makes it to us which I really doubt. 

I could be wrong but i think we'd have to take him in 1 if we want him.

We won't have a shot at Jonathan Allen, much less Garrett, but this is a reason I wanted him. I think he'd provide the most meaningful pass rush in this draft other than the edge rushers we also probably won't get. 

And if the choice is between Reuben Foster and Taco Charlton in the first, right now I'm taking Foster (but I'd take Allen or Garrett over him if they somehow fell). 

[akiliMVP]

I have a feeling we take a corner. Dre and Pacman are free agents. WJ3 is unknown. Shaw isnt a starter. The top of the draft is deep at corner and marvin loves drafting them.

[Jason]

18 minutes ago, akiliMVP said:

I have a feeling we take a corner. Dre and Pacman are free agents. WJ3 is unknown. Shaw isnt a starter. The top of the draft is deep at corner and marvin loves drafting them.

Adam just signed a 3 year deal before the season.  But he hasn't exactly played well this year.  A CB wouldn't shock me, or upset me terribly, even though I want Foster or Ross right now.

[alleycat]

3 hours ago, akiliMVP said:

I have a feeling we take a corner. Dre and Pacman are free agents. WJ3 is unknown. Shaw isnt a starter. The top of the draft is deep at corner and marvin loves drafting them.

Shaw is definitely a starter, and easily the best slot corner on the team right now. 

Dre has earned a new contract. Keep him, kick Adam to the curb, and then assume that WJ3 lives up to his hype or Dennard plays better on the boundary (or pulls his head out of his ass). 

[akiliMVP]

We'd pick 12th today. One of the new CBS mocks by Rob Rang has us taking... OT Cam Robinson. Meh. I guess it makes sense. When I was watching highlights of Myles Garrett vs Alabama Robinson really stood out and shut Garrett down.

The other CBS mock by Dane Brugler has us taking Reuben Foster. I'd like this one better. Grab a right tackle/guard type in the mid rounds.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft

[alleycat]

22 hours ago, akiliMVP said:

We'd pick 12th today. One of the new CBS mocks by Rob Rang has us taking... OT Cam Robinson. Meh. I guess it makes sense. When I was watching highlights of Myles Garrett vs Alabama Robinson really stood out and shut Garrett down.

The other CBS mock by Dane Brugler has us taking Reuben Foster. I'd like this one better. Grab a right tackle/guard type in the mid rounds.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft

I agree on preferring Foster. He may be may top pick amongst players we could sniff.

As for Robinson, it's worth noting that Garrett was playing with a bum ankle in that game...

[Jason]

I've heard Robinson is very inconsistent.  Dominating at times, bad at others.

 

Foster and Ross are my 2 favorites right now.

[MichaelWeston]

Can Foster cover?