Let's talk about the 2017 Draft

[AmishBengalFan]

FWIW, here's the current draft order (subject to change as 2016 wraps up), and some goofy Bleacher Report predictions:

Pick Team Player Position School
 

1 Cleveland Browns Myles Garrett DE Texas A&M

Quote

According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Browns have an "astronomical grade" on Texas A&M defensive end Myles Garrett.

Garrett is a special prospect—he's also No. 1 on the draft board of Bleacher Report's Matt Miller—so it's no surprise the Browns are in love with his potential.

Obviously, Cleveland needs to address its quarterback situation soon, but with so many glaring holes on both sides of the ball, it's reasonable to guess the Browns will target the best player on their board with the top pick.

Unless the Browns believe a can't-miss quarterback is available in this draft class, Garrett will likely be their target at No. 1 and should be considered the heavy favorite at this stage of the predraft process.

2 San Francisco 49ers DeShone Kizer QB Notre Dame
3 Jacksonville Jaguars Jonathan Allen DL Alabama
4 Chicago Bears Jamal Adams S LSU
5 Tennessee Titans (from LA) Reuben Foster LB Alabama
6 New York Jets Leonard Fournette RB LSU
7 San Diego Chargers Marlon Humphrey CB Alabama
8 Cleveland Browns (from PHI) Mitch Trubisky QB North Carolina
9 Carolina Panthers Cam Robinson OT Alabama
10 Arizona Cardinals Mike Williams WR Clemson
11 Cincinnati Bengals Jabrill Peppers S/LB Michigan
12 New Orleans Saints Teez Tabor CB Florida
13 Buffalo Bills John Ross WR Washington
14 Indianapolis Colts Derek Barnett DE Tennessee
15 Philadelphia Eagles (from MIN) Sidney Jones CB Washington
16 Tennessee Titans Quincy Wilson CB Florida
17 Baltimore Ravens Dalvin Cook RB Florida State
18 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Gareon Conley CB Ohio State
19 Houston Texans Takkarist McKinley LB UCLA
20 Green Bay Packers Malik McDowell DL Michigan State
21 Denver Broncos DeMarcus Walker DL Florida State
22 Washington Redskins Zach Cunningham LB Vanderbilt
23 Miami Dolphins Taco Charlton DE Michigan
24 Atlanta Falcons Dan Feeney OG Indiana
25 Detroit Lions Corey Davis WR W. Michigan
26 Pittsburgh Stealers Carlos Watkins DL Clemson
27 Seattle Seahawks Ryan Ramczyk OT Wisconsin
28 New York Giants Montravius Adams DL Auburn
29 Kansas City Chiefs Tim Williams LB Alabama
30 Oakland Raiders Marshon Lattimore CB Ohio State
31 New England Patriots O.J. Howard TE Alabama
32 Dallas Cowboys Charles Harris DE Missouri
 

Personally, I hope the Browns drop out of the #1 spot.  It is unfair to have a kid to come out of college as the top football prospect in the land, only to see his potential career get immediately destroyed by being drafted by Cleveland.

[akiliMVP]

15 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

Can Foster cover?

Haven't watched much of him but from the few scouting reports I've read they say he can. He is a great athlete. Read somewhere he compares favorably to Navarro Bowman.

[akiliMVP]

How do you guys feel about Fournette? Seems like a real option where we will likely pick. 

Run game has clearly been lacking. Hill has had 3 games with over 4 yards per carry. 5 under 3 yards per carry. Gio is coming off an ACL tear and may not even play at the beginning of the year. I like Burkhead and would love to have him back but IDK if he can be the main guy.

I haven't watched much of Fournette. He has been injured a lot. From everything I read he is an AP clone when healthy. Speed and power. If he stays healthy he could change the offense much like Elliot did in Dallas this year.

[alleycat]

23 hours ago, akiliMVP said:

How do you guys feel about Fournette? Seems like a real option where we will likely pick. 

Run game has clearly been lacking. Hill has had 3 games with over 4 yards per carry. 5 under 3 yards per carry. Gio is coming off an ACL tear and may not even play at the beginning of the year. I like Burkhead and would love to have him back but IDK if he can be the main guy.

I haven't watched much of Fournette. He has been injured a lot. From everything I read he is an AP clone when healthy. Speed and power. If he stays healthy he could change the offense much like Elliot did in Dallas this year.

The guys Fournette reminds me the most of are Jim Brown and OJ Simpson. I realize that's heady company, but from a physique and running style it's hard to think of others who are so similar. That said, the question remains whether the style of play in the NFL today makes sense for even a Brown or Simpson. I guess if you go Dallas' route (which was very smart and something I've advocated forever), taking a back with that kind of skill is justified. 

But behind an OLine as bad (and rebuilding as ours?). I'm not so sure. In fact, I'm not so sure that Fournette is even the most ideal back in the draft for today's NFL. That guy might be Dalvin Cook, or even Alvin Kamara. While Fournette "can do it all" so can Cook and Kamara, but they can do it faster. I'll be very curious to look back five years from now and see which one of these guys has done the best. 

My last thought, which I think has a great deal to do with the general valuation of running backs today, has to do with need-to-value ratios. While you could argue that we have legit need at RB in the draft (and I'd agree), I might also argue that we have greater needs at EDGE rusher, LB, DT, S, WR (a true deep threat) and pretty much every spot on the OL.  A RB MAY be the BPA when we pick in the top 10, but is the value you are going to pass up at the other positions worth the trade off for the very good RB you can get 32 picks later, or even the very decent one you could get 64 picks later? 

FWIW, based on my limited scouting of the position, I also happen to think the RB class this year is quite strong (compared to weak WR and LB classes and down right anemic Tackle and Edge rusher classes).

 

 

[Jason]

Depends on who else is available.  I really want Foster at this point.  We can get a solid RB later in the draft.

[spicoli]

I'd rather have Dalvin Cook in all honesty....brings more to the table IMO.

and Fournette isn't on the same level as Zeke Elliott was as a prospect.....maybe as a pure runner he is, but Zeke blows him away in every other facet of the game for that position. 

I say let's just stick with an impact player on the defensive side of the ball....I don't really care what position, just get an impact player that can start day one.

 

[JC]

I just don't see the alpha dog in Fournette. At least not the mentality that Zeke and Vontaze possess. I think the offense needs a skill player that has that. Someone to feed off of because that Cowboys team feeds off of #21. 

[spicoli]

11 hours ago, JC said:

I just don't see the alpha dog in Fournette. At least not the mentality that Zeke and Vontaze possess. I think the offense needs a skill player that has that. Someone to feed off of because that Cowboys team feeds off of #21. 

 

Mike Williams?

[snarkster]

On 12/19/2016 at 10:23 AM, AmishBengalFan said:

FWIW, here's the current draft order (subject to change as 2016 wraps up), and some goofy Bleacher Report predictions:

Pick Team Player Position School
 

1 Cleveland Browns Myles Garrett DE Texas A&M

2 San Francisco 49ers DeShone Kizer QB Notre Dame
3 Jacksonville Jaguars Jonathan Allen DL Alabama
4 Chicago Bears Jamal Adams S LSU
5 Tennessee Titans (from LA) Reuben Foster LB Alabama
6 New York Jets Leonard Fournette RB LSU
7 San Diego Chargers Marlon Humphrey CB Alabama
8 Cleveland Browns (from PHI) Mitch Trubisky QB North Carolina
9 Carolina Panthers Cam Robinson OT Alabama
10 Arizona Cardinals Mike Williams WR Clemson
11 Cincinnati Bengals Jabrill Peppers S/LB Michigan
12 New Orleans Saints Teez Tabor CB Florida
13 Buffalo Bills John Ross WR Washington
14 Indianapolis Colts Derek Barnett DE Tennessee
15 Philadelphia Eagles (from MIN) Sidney Jones CB Washington
16 Tennessee Titans Quincy Wilson CB Florida
17 Baltimore Ravens Dalvin Cook RB Florida State
18 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Gareon Conley CB Ohio State
19 Houston Texans Takkarist McKinley LB UCLA
20 Green Bay Packers Malik McDowell DL Michigan State
21 Denver Broncos DeMarcus Walker DL Florida State
22 Washington Redskins Zach Cunningham LB Vanderbilt
23 Miami Dolphins Taco Charlton DE Michigan
24 Atlanta Falcons Dan Feeney OG Indiana
25 Detroit Lions Corey Davis WR W. Michigan
26 Pittsburgh Stealers Carlos Watkins DL Clemson
27 Seattle Seahawks Ryan Ramczyk OT Wisconsin
28 New York Giants Montravius Adams DL Auburn
29 Kansas City Chiefs Tim Williams LB Alabama
30 Oakland Raiders Marshon Lattimore CB Ohio State
31 New England Patriots O.J. Howard TE Alabama
32 Dallas Cowboys Charles Harris DE Missouri
 

Personally, I hope the Browns drop out of the #1 spot.  It is unfair to have a kid to come out of college as the top football prospect in the land, only to see his potential career get immediately destroyed by being drafted by Cleveland.

If the Bengals pick 7th or 8th and Cam Robinson is there, I think the Bengals have to take him.

My First (Very Mediocre) 2017 Mock (WAG's at Comps for Nelson & Smith and a return on McCarron) - so be gentle: 

01-07 (WR) Mike Williams (6-3/205) Clemson
2A-39 (LB) TJ Watt (6-5/240) Wisconsin (or) Raekwon McMillan (6-2/240) Ohio St
2B [McCarron Trade] (CB) Desmond King (5-11/205) Iowa
3A-71 (QB) Davis Webb (6-5/230) California
3B [Nelson Comp] (SS) Fish Smithson (6-1/210) Kansas
4A (OC) Jon Toth (6-5/310) Kentucky
4B [Smith Comp] (OT) Julie'n Davenport (6-7/315) Bucknell
5A (OLB) Josh Caraway (6-4/250) TCU
5B [McCarron Trade] (PK) Eddy Piniero (6-4/220) Florida
06 (RB) Keith Marshall (5-11/220) Georgia
07 (S/KR) Evan Berry (6-0/210) Tennessee

* Hate taking a WR first, but think Williams is probably the BPA when we pick and the thought of him paired with AJ is too tempting.  Peppers maybe the best available defender when we choose, but also hate to take a safety that high (although his versatility could be intriguing).

* Would love Watt in the second, but doubt that he's there - that's why I have McMillan as an alternate (he may not be there either).

* I've just started seriously looking at the board seriously this week so this is very raw.  First impressions though - this year's crop is very deep or impressive compared to the last two or three.  Hope that impression improves as some early entry guys throw their helmets in the ring and as the All-Star Games/Combines/ProDays approach.

* I'd really like to see the Bengals go all-in on an impact front seven FA (DE/LB) if there is one available this year, but we know they won't.  A solid veteran FA safety would be really nice as well.

[JC]

12 hours ago, spicoli said:

 

Mike Williams?

I wish I knew something about him but I really don't. It would be great though, but I think having a running back that has that mentality is a little extra bonus because it's a little easier to get them the ball. LaFell showed some good stuff last night as well as Core so I'm not sure if they would go that direction or not.

At this point I'm worried they might blame Hill's lack of production on injuries and forego the rich running back talent in this draft. Upgrading running back needs to be one of the top priorities this offseason.

[snarkster]

13 hours ago, JC said:

I wish I knew something about him but I really don't. It would be great though, but I think having a running back that has that mentality is a little extra bonus because it's a little easier to get them the ball. LaFell showed some good stuff last night as well as Core so I'm not sure if they would go that direction or not.

At this point I'm worried they might blame Hill's lack of production on injuries and forego the rich running back talent in this draft. Upgrading running back needs to be one of the top priorities this offseason.

If we pick 7th or 8th and if Cam Robinson is available (which I doubt, what does everyone thing about taking another LT this first this soon?

[akiliMVP]

7 hours ago, snarkster said:

If we pick 7th or 8th and if Cam Robinson is available (which I doubt, what does everyone thing about taking another LT this first this soon?

Cam Robinson won't go that high. He's not an elite tackle prospect and he has off field issues. He seems like more of a right tackle in the NFL.

[Jason]

About to watch the Independence Bowl and Vandy LB Zach Cunningham.

[Jason]

So far Chubb from NC State has impressed me a lot more than Cunningham.  He's a junior so he is eligible.

[Jason]

Cunningham was totally unimpressive.  If we go LB in 1, Foster is definitely the guy I want.

[turningpoint]

On 12/22/2016 at 9:44 PM, Jason said:

Depends on who else is available.  I really want Foster at this point.  We can get a solid RB later in the draft.

I'd rather go with Hill and Burkhead ( I personally want to trade or cut Bernard) and draft a better O-line.

Pat Elflein in the 2nd round is a no brainer.

 

I like Foster at #8 as well, but I'd alos like to trade back and take Cunningham atounr 15-16.....we will most likely pick ahead of Cleveland in the draft, would be fun to trade back and screw them over on a pick.

[turningpoint]

On 12/26/2016 at 9:03 PM, Jason said:

Cunningham was totally unimpressive.  If we go LB in 1, Foster is definitely the guy I want.

I need to wathc more film, but it's easy to say Foster is amazing when he is surrounded by NFL talent, I can't name another NFL prospect on vandy's defense.

[Jason]

42 minutes ago, turningpoint said:

I need to wathc more film, but it's easy to say Foster is amazing when he is surrounded by NFL talent, I can't name another NFL prospect on vandy's defense.

I watched Cunningham play and regardless of the line in front of him I saw him miss tackles when he wasn't being blocked and be out of position a few times.  Admittedly it wasn't a large sample but he did not impress me at all in his bowl game.

[Jason]

46 minutes ago, turningpoint said:

I'd rather go with Hill and Burkhead ( I personally want to trade or cut Bernard) and draft a better O-line.

Pat Elflein in the 2nd round is a no brainer.

 

I like Foster at #8 as well, but I'd alos like to trade back and take Cunningham atounr 15-16.....we will most likely pick ahead of Cleveland in the draft, would be fun to trade back and screw them over on a pick.

I'd be happy with Elflein or Pocic in 2.

And why would you keep Hill over Gio?  Gio has been better every year except Hill's rookie year.  

[turningpoint]

19 hours ago, Jason said:

I'd be happy with Elflein or Pocic in 2.

And why would you keep Hill over Gio?  Gio has been better every year except Hill's rookie year.  

GIO is boom or bust, if a D-linemen gets into the backfield, gio is so small he is just slammed to the ground. While Hill seems to have the power to at least push for 1-2yd gain. I blame our offensive line for Hill not looking like the type of player he really could be, it hasn't been all that great since Hill's rookie year. We improve the Oline and Hill is one of the top 5 back in the NFL.

[turningpoint]

19 hours ago, Jason said:

I'd be happy with Elflein or Pocic in 2.

And why would you keep Hill over Gio?  Gio has been better every year except Hill's rookie year.  

Pocic is a bad idea IMO, he's 6'7" Dalton can't see over that.

 

Elflien is 6'3" Dalton can see over that.

[JC]

18 hours ago, turningpoint said:

GIO is boom or bust, if a D-linemen gets into the backfield, gio is so small he is just slammed to the ground. While Hill seems to have the power to at least push for 1-2yd gain. I blame our offensive line for Hill not looking like the type of player he really could be, it hasn't been all that great since Hill's rookie year. We improve the Oline and Hill is one of the top 5 back in the NFL.

The blame isn't all on the offensive line. Jeremy had basically the same line in his rookie year minus Andre. You have 5 lineman and potentially 8 guys in the box. He just doesn't break enough tackles. He lacks any kind of lateral agility and when he goes sideways he just doesn't do it very quickly as most big guys don't but he doesn't seem to have the power to break the arm tackles. He just isn't as good as he appeared to be his rookie year and his rookie numbers look pretty good due to a couple of big runs. I hate to play the game where you take a couple of those big runs out of the equation, but if you do he looks like a pretty average back.

[akiliMVP]

Derek Barnett is a monster

[akiliMVP]

Foster is 1a and Barnett 1b for me. 

[spicoli]

1 hour ago, akiliMVP said:

Foster is 1a and Barnett 1b for me. 

I think that's where I am as well, but man do I like Dalvin Cook and the options he opens up for an offense....could you imagine trying to game plan against Green, Boyd, Eifert, Cook and Dalton?

that being said, Barnett is my guy.....I just hope we get a shot of him.