Lance's "I Believe"

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

[quote name='A-Men-HouseofPain' post='438370' date='Feb 7 2007, 02:58 PM']the suns suck ass, go blow a goat.[/quote]

If by sucking you mean they have one of the best records in the NBA, went on two 15-game winning streaks this season, have a two-time MVP winner, a healing and developing superstar in Amare Stoudemire and play one of the most exciting brands of basketball that the NBA has ever seen, then yes they suck to the extreme.

[Guest TheBeaverHunter]

[quote name='scharm' post='438361' date='Feb 7 2007, 02:44 PM']Key part being "Missed FG", thus they only have themselves to blame. Even with the injuries, even with the schedule they still should have been in the playoffs.

You just can't wash away that fact with excuses about injuries and schedule, IMO.[/quote]


The "Should Of" Lombardi sure looks good in the trophy case at Paul Brown. We should put it next to our AFC North Champion hats.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='scharm' post='438324' date='Feb 7 2007, 01:24 PM']I believe other teams suffer significant injuries, I believe other teams play tough schedules, I believe other teams suffer bad breaks, I believe if all those 3 things happen in 1 season most of those teams are drafting in the top half of the first round.

See the 2004 and 2005 Baltimore Ravens and 2003 pissburgh stealers.
I believe in all cases radio hosts do not ever bring it up the seasons following.[/quote]




And I would add that I believe that Lance is a moron.

[Guest A-Men-HouseofPain]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' post='438381' date='Feb 7 2007, 03:11 PM']If by sucking you mean they have one of the best records in the NBA, went on two 15-game winning streaks this season, have a two-time MVP winner, a healing and developing superstar in Amare Stoudemire and play one of the most exciting brands of basketball that the NBA has ever seen, then yes they suck to the extreme.[/quote]
all those are great......to talk about when you havent won any titles.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='438356' date='Feb 7 2007, 01:35 PM']What if this team goes 8-8 or 9-7 and miss the playoffs this coming season. Will all of you homers finally admit that there is a problem with this team?[/quote]



What if this team goes 11-5 or better, wins the division and does some damage in the Playoffs ?
Will you "realist" (pessimist) realize that this is a team on the rise and not a mediocre team
on the decline, that has a mediocre coach, shitty coordinators, scouting and front office ?


Believe it or not, my scenario has as much of a chance of happening right now, as your scenario does...

[Storm]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='438384' date='Feb 7 2007, 08:22 PM']The "Should Of" Lombardi sure looks good in the trophy case at Paul Brown. We should put it next to our AFC North Champion hats.[/quote]


Sad but true

[Guest A-Men-HouseofPain]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='438384' date='Feb 7 2007, 03:22 PM']The "Should Of" Lombardi sure looks good in the trophy case at Paul Brown. [b]We should put it next to our AFC North Champion hats.[/b][/quote]
i assume u meant ravens right? fuckin traitor.

[Storm]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='438537' date='Feb 8 2007, 01:47 AM']What if this team goes 11-5 or better, wins the division and does some damage in the Playoffs ?
[b]Will you "realist" (pessimist) realize that this is a team on the rise and not a mediocre team[/b]
on the decline, that has a mediocre coach, shitty coordinators, scouting and front office ?
Believe it or not, my scenario has as much of a chance of happening right now, as your scenario does...[/quote]


I sure hope you're right Old but I only have old feelings to go on, my happy place tells me you're right but my memory tells me different.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='Storm' post='438546' date='Feb 7 2007, 08:16 PM']I sure hope you're right Old but I only have old feelings to go on, my happy place tells me you're right but my memory tells me different.[/quote]


I really don`t know what the past has to do with the future of this team.


And I figured your Happy place would have a midget on a tricycle and your Grandma wearing
a Gene Simmons mask...

[Storm]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='438551' date='Feb 8 2007, 02:34 AM']I really don`t know what the past has to do with the future of this team.
And I figured your Happy place would have a midget on a tricycle and your Grandma wearing
a Gene Simmons mask...
[/quote]



Please don't involve me in your weird fantasies

[Jason]

Ok, yes, we missed the playoffs. But here are some things to consider.

1. Our starters (22) missed 56 games due to injury. (This does not count 22 games of suspensions and benchings of Chris Henry, Odell, and Deltha, nor does it count the 37 games missed by our kick returner, punt returner and 3rd down back or the games missed by Rashad Jeanty.) Playoff teams has an average ov 33.25 games missed due to injuries by their starters. Only 1 playoff team missed more starts (Seattle). The average record of the 7 teams with as many, or more starters games missed was .375.

2. Our actual strength of schedule (based on teams final records) was .534. The average strength of schedule for playoff teams was .470. The strongest schedule for any playoff team was the Giants at .520. And they, like the Bengals were 8-8. If we were in the NFC we would have made the playoffs instead of the Giants. The average record of the 6 teams with schedules as strong, or stronger was .323.

There were 2 teams aside from the Bengals on both lists. Thier combined winning % was .250.

And despite our injuries, and strength of schedule, we should have been 9-7, and could have easily been 10-6, and in the playoffs. Change the roughing the passer call on Justin (which Ronde Barber said was a bad call, and Fox Sports called the worst call in the NFL this year) and we are 9-7. And if Shayne makes that FG we are 10-6 and the 5 seed. And it was not a "botched" FG. For 30 of 39 yards, it was right down the middle, then suddenly, and unexpectedly, takes a sharp right turn. Reminds me of the Don Shula/Jay Z commercial. Sudden gust of wind at the end? Probably.

Call it "making excuses" if you want, but if you look at it objectively, I think we are much closer than some of you think.

Yes, discipline needs to improve, and the defense needs to get better (or at least more consistent). But to come as close as we did with that many strikes against us is impressive.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[center][/center]

[cwing]

[quote name='scharm' post='438324' date='Feb 7 2007, 01:24 PM']I believe other teams suffer significant injuries, I believe other teams play tough schedules, I believe other teams suffer bad breaks, I believe if all those 3 things happen in 1 season most of those teams are drafting in the top half of the first round.

See the 2004 and 2005 Baltimore Ravens and 2003 pissburgh stealers.
I believe in all cases radio hosts do not ever bring it up the seasons following.[/quote]


Very well said.

All day Lance goes off comparing the Colts to the Bengals and how the Bengals are not truely in it to win it because of the way they run their organization. If you compare apples to apples ----- The Colts began rebuilding in the spring of 1998 with the drafting of Manning in the 98 draft. The Bengals began rebuilding with the hiring of Marvin and the drafting of Carson in the spring of 2003.

The Colts were 3-13 in 1997 and won 32 games in the following 4 seasons.

2001 6-10
2000 10-6
1999 13-3
1998 3-13


Bengals were 2-14 in 2002 and won 35 games in the following 4 seasons.

2006 8-8
2005 11-5
2004 8-8
2003 8-8

Looks like we are ahead of the model Lance wants to use.

I do agree that pre 2003 -------- this franchise was a joke !!!

[Guest mongoloido]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='438356' date='Feb 7 2007, 02:35 PM']What if this team goes 8-8 or 9-7 and miss the playoffs this coming season. Will all of you homers finally admit that there is a problem with this team?[/quote]


[quote name='oldschooler' post='438537' date='Feb 7 2007, 08:47 PM']What if this team goes 11-5 or better, wins the division and does some damage in the Playoffs ?
Will you "realist" (pessimist) realize that this is a team on the rise and not a mediocre team
on the decline, that has a mediocre coach, shitty coordinators, scouting and front office ?
Believe it or not, my scenario has as much of a chance of happening right now, as your scenario does...[/quote]


I'm not sure it's a case of either/or. A winning season is no more absolute proof of greatness than a mediocre season is proof of disaster. I think we have a pretty good coaching staff. I think we have a front office that's improved, but needs more improvement. I also think we could use more scouts.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='mongoloido' post='438703' date='Feb 8 2007, 09:13 AM']I'm not sure it's a case of either/or. A winning season is no more absolute proof of greatness than a mediocre season is proof of disaster. I think we have a pretty good coaching staff. I think we have a front office that's improved, but needs more improvement. I also think we could use more scouts.[/quote]



Winning the Division 2 out of 3 years would be proof of greatness. Ecspecially when you consider that
we hadn`t even won a Wild Card spot, much less the Division, in over a decade, prior to Marvin`s arrival.

Having two 8-8 seasons in a row and four 8-8 seasons out of five, would be proof of disaster.
This team is to talented for another 8-8 season.

I don`t think the Front office and the scouts have a problem finding or knowing talent.
I think they have a problem making some of the players realize it`s a privelege and not a right
to play in the NFL. I think some players not having the hunger to be great is a problem.
I think maturity is a problem. Talent isn`t a problem though.

Marvin, Carson, Willie and other team leaders can right the ship. And I believe they will.
I`m sure the NFL Front Office is going to implement tougher standards and punishments for off the field conduct.
So that will help too.

But really, better tackling, and an identity on Defense will make this team much better.
The Defense was dismantled by Marvin, and the players he has brought in to rebuild
it have been decimated by injury or stupidity. I think they`ll find their identity and
be much improved in '07. Which means the Bengals will be much improved in '07...

[cwing]

[quote name='Jason' post='438564' date='Feb 7 2007, 10:26 PM']Ok, yes, we missed the playoffs. But here are some things to consider.

1. Our starters (22) missed 56 games due to injury. (This does not count 22 games of suspensions and benchings of Chris Henry, Odell, and Deltha, nor does it count the 37 games missed by our kick returner, punt returner and 3rd down back or the games missed by Rashad Jeanty.) Playoff teams has an average ov 33.25 games missed due to injuries by their starters. Only 1 playoff team missed more starts (Seattle). The average record of the 7 teams with as many, or more starters games missed was .375.

2. Our actual strength of schedule (based on teams final records) was .534. The average strength of schedule for playoff teams was .470. The strongest schedule for any playoff team was the Giants at .520. And they, like the Bengals were 8-8. If we were in the NFC we would have made the playoffs instead of the Giants. The average record of the 6 teams with schedules as strong, or stronger was .323.

There were 2 teams aside from the Bengals on both lists. Thier combined winning % was .250.

And despite our injuries, and strength of schedule, we should have been 9-7, and could have easily been 10-6, and in the playoffs. Change the roughing the passer call on Justin (which Ronde Barber said was a bad call, and Fox Sports called the worst call in the NFL this year) and we are 9-7. And if Shayne makes that FG we are 10-6 and the 5 seed. And it was not a "botched" FG. For 30 of 39 yards, it was right down the middle, then suddenly, and unexpectedly, takes a sharp right turn. Reminds me of the Don Shula/Jay Z commercial. Sudden gust of wind at the end? Probably.

Call it "making excuses" if you want, but if you look at it objectively, I think we are much closer than some of you think.

Yes, discipline needs to improve, and the defense needs to get better (or at least more consistent). But to come as close as we did with that many strikes against us is impressive.[/quote]




You Hit a HOME RUN With This One !!!!!!!!!! GREAT POST !!!!!!!!!

[Jason]

[quote name='cwing' post='438816' date='Feb 8 2007, 01:18 PM']


You Hit a HOME RUN With This One !!!!!!!!!! GREAT POST !!!!!!!!![/quote]

Thank you.

[Guest TheBeaverHunter]

I agree it could happen and I hope to god it DOES happen. I hope that Marvin goes out and proves me 100 percent wrong saying (at this point) he is mid-level coach (although great talent evaluator). This year is "THE YEAR"; Marvin has his coaches, his players, and his scheme in place, now lets see what gets done. If we fail this year there is no way you can't put the blame on his shoulders.

P.S. I was talking about our AFC North Champ hats from 05 season.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='438878' date='Feb 8 2007, 02:56 PM']I agree it could happen and I hope to god it DOES happen. I hope that Marvin goes out and proves me 100 percent wrong saying (at this point) he is mid-level coach (although great talent evaluator). This year is "THE YEAR"; Marvin has his coaches, his players, and his scheme in place, now lets see what gets done. If we fail this year there is no way you can't put the blame on his shoulders.

P.S. I was talking about our AFC North Champ hats from 05 season.[/quote]


What makes you think we have the players?

Odell is a question mark
Justin will be gone and Frostee is a question mark
David is a question mark
Simmons is a question mark as far as will he be the Tory James for this comming year.

I agree that there should be no reason for us not to make the playoffs (assuming we arent as injured as we were this year), but unless all things fall in place and all those guys I listed play to their capeabilites, I think were still another year away from a superbowl.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='438896' date='Feb 8 2007, 08:10 PM']What makes you think we have the players?

Odell is a question mark
Justin will be gone and Frostee is a question mark
David is a question mark
Simmons is a question mark as far as will he be the Tory James for this comming year.

I agree that there should be no reason for us not to make the playoffs (assuming we arent as injured as we were this year), but unless all things fall in place and all those guys I listed play to their capeabilites, I think were still another year away from a superbowl.[/quote]
Jamie, I for one think we have the players. Injuries are another question altogether, though.

And aren't you forgetting that we have Henderson at DE? Shit, he'll have 24 sacks in his first season as a starter, for sure!

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='438908' date='Feb 8 2007, 03:15 PM']Jamie, I for one think we have the players. Injuries are another question altogether, though.

And aren't you forgetting that we have Henderson at DE? Shit, he'll have 24 sacks in his first season as a starter, for sure![/quote]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

Good point.


But no I dont know that we have the players just yet, we have alot but I think there are still a few pieces missing.

[Guest PakMan]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='438878' date='Feb 8 2007, 02:56 PM']I agree it could happen and I hope to god it DOES happen. I hope that Marvin goes out and proves me 100 percent wrong saying (at this point) [b]he is mid-level coach (although great talent evaluator)[/b]. This year is "THE YEAR"; Marvin has his coaches, his players, and his scheme in place, now lets see what gets done. If we fail this year there is no way you can't put the blame on his shoulders.

P.S. I was talking about our AFC North Champ hats from 05 season.[/quote]
I can't believe it, but I actually agree with you.

[Guest PakMan]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='438910' date='Feb 8 2007, 03:17 PM'][img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

Good point.
But no I dont know that we have the players just yet, we have alot but I think there are still a few pieces missing.[/quote]
We need a crazy, fiery, get-in-your-face type on defense. Kinda like what Odell would/ could/ might be.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='438910' date='Feb 8 2007, 08:17 PM'][img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

Good point.
But no I dont know that we have the players just yet, we have alot but I think there are still a few pieces missing.[/quote]

We'll never know if the fuckers can't stay healthy.
[quote name='PakMan' post='438914' date='Feb 8 2007, 08:19 PM']We need a crazy, fiery, get-in-your-face type on defense. Kinda like what Odell would/ could/ might be.[/quote]

Having met Odell, and having tried to have a conversation with him, he's not nearly the guy we tend to think he is. He is an immature moron who plays fast. Too fast to stay in his gap and play his position reliably. I'd love to see him reach his potential, but if he is the savior of the D, we are fucked.

But I do not disagree at all with your premise. DJax has a bit of what we need, but I'd love a guy with his fire at LB or DT where he could be in the middle of every play.

[Guest TheBeaverHunter]

I am curious what Frazier can do with the VIKEs D. I lay money that they have a better D than us this year.