Marvin Lewis attends Ginn's individual workout

[Guest Tigris]

[quote name='bengaled' post='470875' date='Apr 11 2007, 08:51 PM']you DO know he's recovering from a broken foot, right? that's why he didn't run the other drills at his workout.

[b]ahhhh, nevermind[/b][/quote]
I was going to edit my post and write something about the injury... but I figured I'd wait on someone to mention it.



That last part made me laugh a little bit.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='OzBengal' post='470881' date='Apr 11 2007, 06:56 PM']He was a top 10 pick for a reason.[/quote]
By the Lions, whom are regarded as the BEST evaluators of top-ten talent in the league, ESPECIALLY at WR, right?

[Scoutforlife591]

This is not as shocking as some of you believe.

Do we need another top receiver? No.

Could we use Ginn? Hell yes.

If he's the top 10 pick some scouts believe him to be then this act allows us to select him should he fall. Plus, it gives legitimacy to use taking him should he fall and a team below us wants him. At least then we can tell that team, "we'll take him if you don't trade up to us."

Furthermore, he'd instantly solve the return game. He'd allow our role players to stay role players. (Unlike Kaesviharn) And, after his rookie year, he'd push Henry and Housh for the starting role, and allow us to stay 3 deep while letting an over 30 TJ walk when his contract expires.

And with Henry 1 hiccup away from banishment, a 3rd receiver could become a need much sooner than you think.

And what if the Bengals have trade offers for Henry? For instance, we'll give you a 3rd and take him off your hands, since we know you've got all the rapscallions you can handle.

Any number of hypotheticals could happen between now and the end of TJ's contract that would make Ginn as a Bengal make Marvin look like Nostradamus. And between now and the end of TJ's contract, he's still a returner, he's still solid depth. And quite frankly, he's only going to be a "waste" for 1.5 years. Otherwise, TJ is gone and Henry is suspended. So why not?

[akiliMVP]

This will end the argument of a receiver in round 1.

[u][b]2006 season[/b][/u]
Total offense: 8th
Scoring offense: 8th
Receiving touchdowns: 3rd
Passing offense: 6th

Total defense: 30th
Scoring defense: 17th
Pass defense: 31st
Run defense: 15th

To think that we should go any way other than a defensive player is insane.

[Guest OzBengal]

[quote name='akiliMVP' post='470887' date='Apr 11 2007, 07:59 PM']This will end the argument of a receiver in round 1.

[u][b]2006 season[/b][/u]
Total offense: 8th
Scoring offense: 8th
Receiving touchdowns: 3rd
Passing offense: 6th

Total defense: 30th
Scoring defense: 17th
Pass defense: 31st
Run defense: 15th

To think that we should go any way other than a defensive player is insane.[/quote]

Umm, Henry isn't on the team anymore. Show us the stats when he didn't play compared to when he did. Then you might have an argument.

[Scoutforlife591]

As Marvin has said, the players that will fix this defense are already here.

If you expect a rookie and his maybe 8 starts to bring us up 20 spots, you're crazy.

Or even the maybe 300 rookie snaps we'll see all year on the Bengals.

The following year, sure, but not this year.

[Jason]

[quote name='OzBengal' post='470839' date='Apr 11 2007, 08:23 PM']Many people are in denial but we need a receiver[/quote]

I think it's more important that we draft a QB.

[Guest Tigris]

[quote name='Scoutforlife591' post='470893' date='Apr 11 2007, 09:05 PM']As Marvin has said, the players that will fix this defense are already here.

If you expect a rookie and his maybe 8 starts to bring us up 20 spots, you're crazy.

Or even the maybe 300 rookie snaps we'll see all year on the Bengals.

The following year, sure, but not this year.[/quote]
if we can get a rookie DB that picks off 5 passes you better believe that's going to help this team win games. im all for defense this draft, even with the henry situation being what it is

[Guest OzBengal]

[quote name='Jason' post='470895' date='Apr 11 2007, 08:08 PM']I think it's more important that we draft a QB.
[/quote]

I don't see Marvin attending any QB workouts.

[spicoli22]

[quote name='akiliMVP' post='470887' date='Apr 11 2007, 07:59 PM']To think that we should go any way other than a defensive player is insane.[/quote]

I also agree that defense is where the need lies. I hope to god they take a stud CB or LB that can come in and start from day one. HOWEVER, I know that as long as Carson Palmer is our QB they are always gonna have to make sure that he's surrounded by the absolute best talent possible. That's not gonna happen thru FA and it's also not gonna happen by drafting guys in the later rounds. If you want thoroughbreds you gotta get'm early. Ted Ginn is a thoroughbred. Chris Henry was...

[bengaled]

[quote name='spicoli' post='470868' date='Apr 11 2007, 08:40 PM']Well he was running on a bad foot. Make no mistake...Ted Ginn will be the fastest player on the field every time he puts the pads on.

3 words for ya'll....BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE. I think Marv takes BPA no matter what position(other than QB). Chris Henry will probably never play again so the need is definitely there. Plus, Carson always needs to be surrounded by the best talent possible.[/quote]


gotta agree with everything you've said here...not that i want to see us looking for help on offense early on, but especially the chris henry part. the death blow has been dealt.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Scoutforlife591' post='470893' date='Apr 11 2007, 07:05 PM'][b]As Marvin has said, the players that will fix this defense are already here. [/b]

If you expect a rookie and his maybe 8 starts to bring us up 20 spots, you're crazy.

Or even the maybe 300 rookie snaps we'll see all year on the Bengals.

The following year, sure, but not this year.[/quote]
You could say the same about a rookie on offense....

And if you buy into Marvin's logic, then I guess we don't need to draft ANY defensive players, in which case drafting Ginn in the 1st or 2nd round would make perfect sense...
Our defense isn't a broken unit, it simply needs Deltha, Jeanty, Brooks and Odell/Pollack to return. We're OK!
WE DON'T NEED DEFENSE, WE NEED A DIFFERENCE-MAKER IN THE WR/KR IN THE FIRST ROUND!!!!

[Scoutforlife591]

[quote name='Tigris' post='470897' date='Apr 11 2007, 09:09 PM']if we can get a rookie DB that picks off 5 passes you better believe that's going to help this team win games. im all for defense this draft, even with the henry situation being what it is[/quote]

What's that going to take, Joseph had exactly [size=5]O[/size]

Even DeAngelo Hall, a bonafide superstar CB only had 2 his rookie year, on pace for 3.

Tye Hill had 3

Pacman had 0

Antrel Rolle had 1

Carlos Rogers had 2

Who are these corners that can only be obtained in the first Rd and roll out with 5 interceptions?

BTW, What else is Marvin supposed to do? Sit at home? Columbus is a two hour drive. Might as well go. If all the execs are there it's a good time to discuss trades, suspensions, and smokescreens.

[Soundwave]

I see no problem with us drafting a first day receiver...



next year.

[|Bunghole|]

What is up with this homeristic sensation that is Ted Ginn?
We ARE NOT going to draft him to be a CB.
Why do people keep suggesting that his collegiate success at WR will automatically translate into NFL success at ANY position?

[bengaled]

[quote name='JC' post='470876' date='Apr 11 2007, 08:52 PM']It's more of a playful thing. I don't think you have been around long enough to understand it.
But Francisco said Bennie was coming along better then chad when he was a rookie. So it can't be to far fetched. I think it was the orange black game he had 169 yards recieving. He also had a TD catch in preseason before he got hurt.[/quote]


that makes so much more sense when put into context, then...my bad.

[Guest Tigris]

[quote name='Scoutforlife591' post='470907' date='Apr 11 2007, 09:20 PM']What's that going to take, Joseph had exactly [size=5]O[/size]

Even DeAngelo Hall, a bonafide superstar CB only had 2 his rookie year, on pace for 3.

Tye Hill had 3

Pacman had 0

Antrel Rolle had 1

Carlos Rogers had 2

Who are these corners that can only be obtained in the first Rd and roll out with 5 interceptions?

BTW, What else is Marvin supposed to do? Sit at home? Columbus is a two hour drive. Might as well go. If all the execs are there it's a good time to discuss trades, suspensions, and smokescreens.[/quote]

joseph doesnt exactly have very good "hands" either. when the game slows down for him and he can think more about playing and not reading the picks will come to him.

no one talked about just the first round either. perhaps 5 picks is a little much for a rookie CB (im not going to look up stats, but i know it's happened before), but anyway...

point is, anyone taken on defense has much more greater chance of helping this team more signicantly than any player chosen to play offense. ginn wont be a cincinnati bengal, imo.

i think going was a good move by marvin. im sure he has better things to do than just sit at home being it so close to the draft, but like you said, this gives him the opportunity to discuss potential trades and smokescreen a little bit. if i indeed did have the intention of trading back, and with such an intriging (sp.) football player in ginn supposebly getting drafted around my pick, id do the same thing. make people think about waiting for him to fall to them after we pick. it'd be great if he can trade back a few spots, pick up an extra 3rd and STILL get the player he wanted all along.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Tigris' post='470883' date='Apr 11 2007, 08:58 PM']I was going to edit my post and write something about the injury... but I figured I'd wait on someone to mention it.



That last part made me laugh a little bit. [/quote]


laughter's a wonderful thing and sorely missed around these parts lately. glad i could oblige, bro.

[BengalUprising9]

If the Bengals have Ginn ranked much higher then anyone left on the board, then I see no problem taking him. I mean like it was said earlier, the defense won't be magically improved by a first rounder, it will take a group of solid players. If the Bengals take 5 defensive players in the draft I still think it would be a solid defensive draft if we get the right players. I'm not an OSU fan but any fan can see how Ginn can change any game with just the ball in his hands a couple of times. I'm not saying hes the guy I want to come out of the first round with, but make no mistake, we could do a lot worse. Plus it is fun to think of how much speed and potential this offense would have.

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='OzBengal' post='470890' date='Apr 11 2007, 09:04 PM']Umm, Henry isn't on the team anymore. Show us the stats when he didn't play compared to when he did. Then you might have an argument.[/quote]
WTF dude? I don't need stats to show you that the defense was fucking terrible last year, and the offense was amongst the league's best. And Henry is on the team.

[Guest Tigris]

[quote name='BengalUprising9' post='470926' date='Apr 11 2007, 09:46 PM']If the Bengals have Ginn ranked much higher then anyone left on the board, then I see no problem taking him. I mean like it was said earlier, the defense won't be magically improved by a first rounder, it will take a group of solid players. If the Bengals take 5 defensive players in the draft I still think it would be a solid defensive draft if we get the right players. I'm not an OSU fan but any fan can see how Ginn can change any game with just the ball in his hands a couple of times. I'm not saying hes the guy I want to come out of the first round with, but make no mistake, we could do a lot worse. Plus it is fun to think of how much speed and potential this offense would have.[/quote]


I guess ruling a WR completely out is kind of dumb, but still... if it happens I wouldn't be very happy, at least until he shows he can contribute significantly to this team. After the start of the season (if the defense doesn't totally fold under AGAIN) I'm sure I wouldn't even think about it much.

No one thought we were going to draft Chris Perry a few years ago...

[BengalUprising9]

Teams that draft guys who are ranked signinificantly lower then other guys on their board based on need normally are the ones who in the long run don't do well. Again I'm not saying Ginn is the guy but if the Bengals have him ranked 8th on their board and the highest defensive guy is 18 then, I'm all for taking the higher ranked guy. I just think Marvin is all about taking the BPA, so I could see where Ginn is a Bengal.

[Scoutforlife591]

[quote name='Tigris' post='470924' date='Apr 11 2007, 09:45 PM']joseph doesnt exactly have very good "hands" either. when the game slows down for him and he can think more about playing and not reading the picks will come to him.

no one talked about just the first round either. perhaps 5 picks is a little much for a rookie CB (im not going to look up stats, but i know it's happened before), but anyway...

point is, anyone taken on defense has much more greater chance of helping this team more signicantly than any player chosen to play offense. ginn wont be a cincinnati bengal, imo.

i think going was a good move by marvin. im sure he has better things to do than just sit at home being it so close to the draft, but like you said, this gives him the opportunity to discuss potential trades and smokescreen a little bit. if i indeed did have the intention of trading back, and with such an intriging (sp.) football player in ginn supposebly getting drafted around my pick, id do the same thing. make people think about waiting for him to fall to them after we pick. it'd be great if he can trade back a few spots, pick up an extra 3rd and STILL get the player he wanted all along.[/quote]

Well, Joseph didn't have good hands, nor apparently did Jones, Rolle, Rogers, or Hill.

And the 1st Rd is important, because if we can get these 5 pick CBs in other rounds, then what is the harm of taking a WR with our 1st, if we can just get a 5 pick CB in Rds 2-7? Yeah, rookies have done it, but being a 1st Rder doesn't guarantee it by any stretch.

The answer is, there isn't any harm, just because we draft a guy in the 1st Rd doesn't mean he'll be a huge contributor "cough" Kenechi Udeze, Calvin Pace.

Devin Hester wasn't really a defensive pick and he was arguable the most helpful rookie last year. Ginn has a good chance of being very Hester-like.

[J. Lindsey]

It would be nice to see us get a star on defense. But will we? it is impossible to tell whether who we draft will become a star or not. Maybe our 6th round pick could be a better defensive player than our first. We havent exactly had the best of luck with our first round pick anyways. So if we got Ted Ginn, even though we dont need him, I wouldnt be angry because he has talent and would better our team. See how I said better, which is the goal of the draft, right?

[Jamie_B]

If we draft anything other than D with the 1st pick (and 2nd but MAYBEE a TE) Ill be hella pissed. I dont care how fast Ginn is there isnt a NEED.

Chad and TJ are not declining, Chad may not have had a huge amount of TDs but he let the league in yards and put up a carreer game against NO. TJ had his 1st 1000 yard season.

In addition We still have Chatman, a now healthy Tab Perry, McNeil, Holt, Brazell and Henry after week 9. After the top 2 (3 after week 9) yeah we could argue any number of reasons why they might not help but they also really havent had the chance to find out.

It would be insane with the needs we have on D to take a WR that early.