Guest BlackJesus Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote]It's about "freedom"[/quote] [color="green"]One of the most perverted Words in the English language and for that matter the American publics lexicon..... Lets just look at individual behavior that supposedly doesn't harm anyone else: [u]In America you don't have the "Freedom" to:[/u] - Sell your own Kidney - Pay a woman for sex - Smoke Pot - Snort Coke or a host of other drugs - Drive without a license - Not pay taxes - Marry a guy if you are a guy - Own many types of wild animals (Elephants etc) - Own a Bazooka - Jaywalk without a fine - Marry 3 women (polygamy) - walk down the street naked - say you are going to kill the president etc etc etc etc etc I could go all day..... Point being we don't actually have individual freedom, we have rstricted freedoms that come with an unspoken pact that the government provides certain securities and infrastructre in return for our obediance of their laws. Smoking is no different: Where does it say people have the "right to smoke" Our declaration of independence mentions right to pursue happiness, but I already outlined all the cases where this is impeded on up above..... Not to mention these documents were written by Men who "Owned" other individuals (slaves)..... It says no where that people have the right to even smoke Tobacco.... as with thousands of other rights that we now just blurt out (right to healthcare, living wage, etc etc) Smoking unlike with something such as eating a burger = directly adversly affects others around you at the time of consumption.... similar to if I was spraying toxins in the air in a crowded theater.... As for the argument of a private business being able to decide.... those rights don't exist either A private restaurant can't decide to ban black people, or midgets, or gays.... just because they pay property taxes and own the place.... when you file for a license to operate a private business the govt gives you certain rules that you must abide by.... since almost all private busnesses are located on state funded roads . use state funded water pipes , rely on state funded police and firemen if there is an emergency... they can make the argument that you are utilizing community infrastructure to get people to your establishment.... thus you forfiet some property rights....there really is hardly any Fully private busineeses, thta have their own roads, pipes, electric generators, security.....[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Or this one from the same album.... [img]http://jorgen.nu/ncfc/gfx/leary.jpg[/img] There's a guy- I don't know if you've heard about this guy, he's been on the news a lot lately. There's a guy- he's English, I don't think we should hold that against him, but apparently this is just his life's dream because he is going from country to country. He has a senate hearing in this country coming up in a couple of weeks. And this is what he wants to do. He wants to make the warnings on the packs bigger. Yeah! He wants the whole front of the pack to be the warning. Like the problem is we just haven't noticed yet. Right? Like he's going to get his way and all of the sudden smokers around the world are going to be going, "Yeah, Bill, I've got some cigarettes.. HOLY SHIT! These things are bad for you! Shit, I thought they were good for you! I thought they had Vitamin C in them and stuff!" You fucking dolt! Doesn't matter how big the warnings are. You could have cigarettes that were called the warnings. You could have cigarrets that come in a black pack, with a skull and a cross bone on the front, called tumors and smokers would be lined up around the block going, "I can't wait to get my hands on these fucking things! I bet you get a tumor as soon as you light up! Numm Numm Numm Numm Numm" Doesn't matter how big the warnings are or how much they cost. Keep raising the prices, we'll break into your houses to get the fucking cigarettes, ok!? There a drug, we're addicted, ok!? Numm Numm Numm Numm Numm *wheeze* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Smoking is a bad habit, but I agree with the gist of what Backer's been posting... You simply cannot criminalize smoking. I smoke and I actually wish i'd never started...I'm trying to quit. There are so many "bad" things in this world, and cigarette smoking is one of them. But knee-jerk reactions to problems just causes a whole new set of problems of it's own. <<coughs up brown oyster>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='Mar 1 2005, 10:14 AM']I was talking about bars, restaurants etc... [right][post="53553"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Bars resturants aren`t "public". They are owned by some1 or a group. They are not public property. If I owned a bar or resturant I would`t want the Governmet telling me that I could not allow people to smoke. That should be MY RIGHT to choose...that`s what I said before. If I pay sales and property taxes then it affects ME if I allow or don`t allow smoking and I should have the CHOICE....not have it forced on me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I see some of our elder statesmen are on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 yeah see how i look at is if a public place like a bar which is privately owned << key there if the owner wants to let smokers smoke in his building let em.. FUCK YOU IF U DONT LIKE IT TALK TO THE OWNER.... that simple... why should inflick ur moral judgement on me... I dont smoke in restaurants or anythign like that but if its a bar and the ownder doesnt care if u smoke then go some place else with ur heathly lungs.. if the owner says no smoking then shit i will put it out.. untill quite bitching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote]In America you don't have the "Freedom" to: - Sell your own Kidney - Pay a woman for sex - Smoke Pot - Snort Coke or a host of other drugs - Drive without a license - Not pay taxes - Marry a guy if you are a guy - Own many types of wild animals (Elephants etc) - Own a Bazooka - Jaywalk without a fine - Marry 3 women (polygamy) - walk down the street naked - say you are going to kill the president[/quote] I`m for all of those things.Well except the guy marry a guy thing.... that`s a whole other thread though. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/32.gif[/img] Candy ass do gooders that lived before me took away those freedoms. I don`t plan on giving up MORE of them...I am for more freedom and less laws taking them away....not more laws just because we have other dumbass 1`s.... [quote]A private restaurant can't decide to ban black people, or midgets, or gays.... just because they pay property taxes and own the place[/quote] Then why do they have the right to ban smokers. Because they weren`t born smoking ? Baninng some1 because of the way they were born or because they are handicapped is called discrimination. Private resturants do have the right to ban some1 for what they are wearing. If they have the choice to say who can eat/drink there because of what they are wearing then they should have the choice to say you can smoke or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I guess you need the bazooka to take out your pet elephant if he ever gets uppity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Where do you get moral judgement? I never said I thought you were a bad person or had a low morals if you smoke. I just don't like to be around it. What I am saying is your freedom to smoke where you want to impinges just as much in the other direction of me having to deal with it. Why should'nt I have the freedom to go where ever I want and not have to deal with it? Why don't next time I not shower for a year and sit down in the booth right next to you, get a nice little fan pointed at me and let my stink enhance your wonderful meal? There is no law against that. Do you think I would get kicked out of a restaurant for that? Maybe, maybe not, but it is sure as hell inconsiderate to you. Don't let my health get in the way of your good time or your freedoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengal_Smoov Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Living NYC were smoking has been banned from all resturants, bars, clubs, etc.. its pretty interesting. As someone who doesn't smoke cigarettes I enjoy being able to go out and not have to come home smelling like smoke or smelling it my girlfriends air. Especially people who are allergic to smoke(like my girlfriend) they don't have to suffer because of someone's elses habit. Second-hand is deadly, that's is why I think this is a good idea. When mayor bloomberg first passed this law, the smokers were pissed but I think it was a good decision. The smokers have fought back though, one bouncer was stabbed to death for kicking the son of an Asian gangster out of a club for smoking. Many smokers complain of being treated as second class citizens, becuase they have to go outside to enjoy a cigarette. I think this policy will soon be commonplace around America and smokers will have to go outside to smoke. Atleast it's a nice way to meet a girl standing outside of club smoking a cigarette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 To me it`s not about being able to smoke. It`s about the Government taking away the business owners right to choose. And smoker and non smokers right to choose. I don`t drive a big motor... gas guzzling SUV. And to me it`s no different than if the Government was saying they were going to ban them for every1`s sake. Would you all be pissed if the Government TOLD you what kind of car you were "allowed" to drive and where you were "allowed" to drive ? Of course you would ! I don`t care if I smoked or not...I think business owners and people should have the choice. We are adults. We should be able to have the choice without the Government telling us what to do. Of course it`s what people that don`t smoke want ...so they don`t see it as another freedom of choice being taken away. Pathetic really.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Yes I do. When a smoker smokes in a bar or restaurant I frequent your solution to my problem is don't go there. In essence my freedom is taken away because someone else has a choice addiction. So I guess what you think is a smoke should be allowed to go where ever he pleases and we should all just have to deal with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='Mar 1 2005, 03:41 PM']Yes I do. When a smoker smokes in a bar or restaurant I frequent your solution to my problem is don't go there. In essence my freedom is taken away because someone else has a choice addiction. So I guess what you think is a smoke should be allowed to go where ever he pleases and we should all just have to deal with it? [right][post="53776"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Sighs......you act like you live there. You act like the you don`t have a choice. You act like the hour or 2 that you spend on the other side of a Ventilated building is somethig that is as harmful to you as breathing s cigarette that is right uder your nose. You also are acting like that there is no other place to go that the owner CHOOSES to ban smoking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 yes because the propieter of the establishment gets to choose weather his building is smoking or non... if he wants a smoking restaunt go to a non smoking bar... its the same with smokers if they like the beer better at the non smoking bar they would just have to go outside to smoke and DEAL WITH IT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Why should'nt I have the right to go that bar and not have to deal with the harmful effects of second hand smoke? Your right to breath tainted air is just as much my right not to, and not breath it where I want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengal_Smoov Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Air is something that is shared by all of us, for one person to be able to pollute that air isn't fair to others who have to breathe it. If you go to a bar and someone was polluting the air that everyone had to breathe then the polluter would likely be asked to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creechnasty Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Ok my case in point for this is I, being a smoker, when I am in the mood for a tasty McDonalds treat.. choose to go to the McDonalds in Monroe over any other because it allows smoking.... I WILL DRIVE OUT OF MY WAY TO GO THERE.... Do i complain that other McDonalds are non-smoking? No, because that is the rules set up by the other McDonalds. [quote]Yes I do. When a smoker smokes in a bar or restaurant I frequent your solution to my problem is don't go there. In essence my freedom is taken away because someone else has a choice addiction. So I guess what you think is a smoke should be allowed to go where ever he pleases and we should all just have to deal with it?[/quote] So at what point did you decide that you didn't like the smoking there? Was it as soon as you walked in for the first time ever? "What? they allow smoking here? THIS MUST BE STOPPED!!" Maybe you shouldn't go there.... how bout that? there is a Bar in Dayton that is smoke free called Therapy Cafe... My friends like to go there... I went once and I won't go again... Why? ITS MY CHOICE... Most of the places nowadays are smoke free... ok thats cool... but I'm assuming since there is no Ban around here right now that the owners did it on their own choice... are you not happy about that? GO TO THOSE PLACES... EMBRACE THEM... THEY CATERED TO YOU... they didn't need a law to make them ban smoking in their establishment. Maybe if all you non-smokers will just stop going to places that allowed smoking... it would hurt their business and they will change. But if it doesn't effect them, then maybe they didn't want you there to begin with..... People need to stop acting like the world revolves around them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The J Dub Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote]People need to stop acting like the world revolves around them....[/quote] testify my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote name='creechnasty' date='Mar 1 2005, 05:18 PM']Ok my case in point for this is I, being a smoker, when I am in the mood for a tasty McDonalds treat.. choose to go to the McDonalds in Monroe over any other because it allows smoking.... I WILL DRIVE OUT OF MY WAY TO GO THERE.... Do i complain that other McDonalds are non-smoking? No, because that is the rules set up by the other McDonalds. So at what point did you decide that you didn't like the smoking there? Was it as soon as you walked in for the first time ever? "What? they allow smoking here? THIS MUST BE STOPPED!!" Maybe you shouldn't go there.... how bout that? there is a Bar in Dayton that is smoke free called Therapy Cafe... My friends like to go there... I went once and I won't go again... Why? ITS MY CHOICE... Most of the places nowadays are smoke free... ok thats cool... but I'm assuming since there is no Ban around here right now that the owners did it on their own choice... are you not happy about that? GO TO THOSE PLACES... EMBRACE THEM... THEY CATERED TO YOU... they didn't need a law to make them ban smoking in their establishment. Maybe if all you non-smokers will just stop going to places that allowed smoking... it would hurt their business and they will change. But if it doesn't effect them, then maybe they didn't want you there to begin with..... People need to stop acting like the world revolves around them.... [right][post="53833"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Amen ! That`s the point these people are missing. I`ll say it again for those in the back that keep letting the point pass by them..... Sighs......you act like you live there. You act like the you don`t have a choice. You act like the hour or 2 that you spend on the other side of a Ventilated building is somethig that is as harmful to you as breathing a cigarette that is right uder your nose. You also are acting like that there is no other place to go that the owner CHOOSES to ban smoking. Do you non smokers get it now ? Of course you don`t [img]http://www.imagemagician.com/images/nebsmak/emotes/banghead.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalsOwn Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 I smoke. I could care a less if they banned smoking in every restaurant in America. I don't want to force someone to inhale my cigerette smoke, so I only smoke outside no matter what, or in my truck. I'm tired of everyone making a big deal out of pointless crap. Who cares? Is Oldschooler a hippie? THE MAN IS TRYING TO BRING US SMOKERS DOWN. GIVE ME A HIT OF THAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 [quote name='BengalsOwn' date='Mar 1 2005, 05:39 PM']I smoke. I could care a less if they banned smoking in every restaurant in America. I don't want to force someone to inhale my cigerette smoke, so I only smoke outside no matter what, or in my truck. I'm tired of everyone making a big deal out of pointless crap. Who cares? Is Oldschooler a hippie? THE MAN IS TRYING TO BRING US SMOKERS DOWN. GIVE ME A HIT OF THAT. [right][post="53845"][/post][/right][/quote] Sure...why not ? :roll: I was born in 1969 ...I smoke pot and have long hair. But I don`t HAVE to smoke everywhere I go. The problem I have is for people to force it to be banned in places it is OK to do and take away the CHOICE of business owners whether they want to allow it or not. I`m not saying I should be allowed to smoke at a Funeral Home, in a Hospital or at my kids Parent-Teacher conferences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The J Dub Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 [quote]I`m not saying I should be allowed to smoke at a Funeral Home, in a Hospital or at my kids Parent-Teacher conferences[/quote] YOU CANT? Shit maybe thats why people look at me all mad like when i do.Learn somethin new everyday i tell you what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Thats exactly what you are saying is that the world should revolve around smokers instead of non-smokers. You have a habit of choice. Do you not? It impinges on the rights of others who do not want to take in your second hand smoke. I will ask this question again because it never seems to get answered. Why should I lose my freedom to go to any establishment(and that is what I would be doing if I just do what you say and not go to a place simply because I don't like cigarette smoke) because you have an inconsiderate choice habit? Is that fair? Is that freedom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creechnasty Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='Mar 1 2005, 08:53 PM']Thats exactly what you are saying is that the world should revolve around smokers instead of non-smokers. You have a habit of choice. Do you not? It impinges on the rights of others who do not want to take in your second hand smoke. I will ask this question again because it never seems to get answered. Why should I lose my freedom to go to any establishment(and that is what I would be doing if I just do what you say and not go to a place simply because I don't like cigarette smoke) because you have an inconsiderate choice habit? Is that fair? Is that freedom? [right][post="53944"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote] Well i hope this answers your question: You aren't losing the freedom to go to the establishment... no one said that you couldn't... BUT you knew that it was a place where smoking was allowed BEFORE you went there... did you not? There are certainly more places out there that don't allow smoking then ones that do... Go to those. You act like it was a non-smoking place at one point and smokers decided to overtake it... It was a package deal to begin with: place + smoking... It was like if a place was called "We Punch You in the Face While Eating" or WPYitFWE for short... And Joe Shmoe says "they got great food... but i don't like all the face punching... I know... I'll make em change it." So what makes non-smokers think they can take away the rights of businesses to allow smoking???? The place i work and i assume it goes the same all around as well, gets a discount on insurance because they don't allow smoking... So, one would think, that the places that do allow smoking are doing so knowing they don't get a discount... BUT IT IS THEIR CHOICE... Do you see the overall theme here?? Of course you don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CrazyIrishman5 Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 This is the last thing I will say about this! Old so your saying if you went to a [b]public pool[/b] and was swimming. I could walk up to the pool wip out my johnson and piss in the pool, you would have to deal with it! I don't think smoking should be band, its your right to smoke but smoking around me and my kid in a public building is not right. WE have to breath the same air you are breathing! On a side note, Down with the ACLU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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