On the Beat: Bengals No. 21

[oldschooler]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='14 April 2010 - 08:10 AM' timestamp='1271254238' post='877607']
There are a lot of mixed reports on Gresham's blocking. I'll go with the guy who is an actual NFL scout over The Hair.

And again, he doesn't fit the offense they've used for 10 years under Brat. This coupled with Coffman being on the roster is why they aren't going to take him. 2 tight ends who can't block is not how they roll.

You don't have to convince me that Brat sucks. You will have to convince me that he's going to change his scheme 1 year after already doing so.
[/quote]



So what Scout said he CAN'T block?


Rob Rang . . .



Gresham may have helped his cause with a "solid showing" in receiving and[b] blocking[/b] drills.



[url="http://rob-rang.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/13682485/20385705"]http://rob-rang.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/13682485/20385705[/url]



Walter Football . . .


[b]Summary: [/b]Gresham is a first-round caliber tight end prospect and will make one team very explosive in the passing game at his position. [b]He has the size and strength to be a better blocker, but this can be coached up in the NFL and often is.[/b] I'd like to see him fine tune his routes in his senior season.

[b]Player Comparison: Tony Gonzalez. [/b]I hate to compare Gresham to one of the best tight ends of all time, but I am limited because tight ends of Gresham's caliber are very rare with his size, athleticism and production.



[url="http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2010jgresham.php"]http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2010jgresham.php[/url]






From a 2007 article . . .


NORMAN, Okla. — [b]Jermaine Gresham had to learn to help Oklahoma run before he could fully show off his skills in the passing game[/b].

Head coach Bob Stoops called the 6-foot-6 sophomore the most physically talented tight end he's ever coached.

"Nothing like that guy. Just the power and strength he has is amazing. The speed he has is amazing," Stoops said. "We can run our gassers, our conditioning drills, out there over and over and the guy never gets tired. There's a lot to him, for sure, and he's got great hands."




"I know that's saying a lot, but in that regard, his abilities and his endurance and his speed, everything together for a tight end, he's one of those type of guys," Stoops said.

All that talent wasn't getting showcased much of his freshman season, though, as Gresham's struggles to pick up the team's blocking schemes cost him playing time and he compounded matters by developing fumbling problems when he did get on the field.

"There was just a time a year ago as a young player with high expectations and unbelievable talent, he was still a receiver learning to be a tight end," offensive coordinator Kevin Wilson said.

Gresham progressed with blocking through spring and fall practices, but even a few weeks ago Wilson said it was clear when opponents saw him on the field, they were preparing for the Sooners to throw the football. It finally clicked in Oklahoma's 62-21 win at Tulsa in Week 4, when Wilson came away impressed with Gresham's commitment to blocking.

"To be a complete player, to put you on the field, you need to do everything and not go in and being the passing tight end," Gresham said. "Being a complete player throws the defense off."



Gresham started using his 262-pound frame to deliver punishing blocks



It gives you a lot of options running the ball and throwing it because they do both really well," Stoops said.

"They're good strong blockers



[url="http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-11-08-885062567_x.htm"]http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-11-08-885062567_x.htm[/url]

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='14 April 2010 - 10:21 AM' timestamp='1271254901' post='877616']
The biggest hole on the team that's funny. If it's such a giant hole why didn't they try and sign a free agent at the position? They sure as hell jumped at the opportunity to sign a playmaker at wide receiver. Did they even bring a free agent tight end in for a visit? They've valued the position so much the last 10 years to invest 2 third round picks and a 7th rounder in 10 years. The "big" free agent signings at tight end have been Reggie Kelly and Ben Utecht.

There's much more of a chance they draft a guard, a position they have actually used while Brat has been here, than a tight end they've never valued as a receiver in round 1.

What is annoying is all of my friends who are Bengals fans, and just about everyone on the draft forum I frequent agree with me about Gresham and Mays, while nobody but maybe 2 or 3 here do. It makes so much sense to me and everyone who I talk to, yet here everyone thinks I am blasphemous.
[/quote]


did I miss all of the game changing tight ends that were available this offseason?

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='14 April 2010 - 10:25 AM' timestamp='1271255115' post='877620']
did I miss all of the game changing tight ends that were available this offseason?
[/quote]
How bout the previous 10 years?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='14 April 2010 - 10:24 AM' timestamp='1271255074' post='877618']
No that's not what I've based my entire argument on. That's just one of many opinions I've read that said Gresham can't block. NFL scout just sounds better than some random internet draft guru or talking head on TV.

Most of my argument is about that we don't use the tight end as a receiver.

[b]Obviously he's right about Gresham and wrong about Mays.[/b] Mays can't cover for shit.
[/quote]



yes, OBVIOUSLY the anonymous stranger you've never met and don't know the name of is right. It's SO blatantly obvious. All of your Bengals friends surely agree with you.

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='14 April 2010 - 10:26 AM' timestamp='1271255199' post='877624']
yes, OBVIOUSLY the anonymous stranger you've never met and don't know the name of is right. It's SO blatantly obvious. All of your Bengals friends surely agree with you.
[/quote]
No offense, but I'll go with the opinion of the guys on the internet draft forum who know a ton about college football over you guys who like every single prospect and flame whoever disagrees with your opinion.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='14 April 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1271255285' post='877625']
No offense, but I'll go with the opinion of the guys on the internet draft forum who know a ton about college football over you guys who like every single prospect and flame whoever disagrees with your opinion.
[/quote]





You mean you will go with people argee with your over those that don't.

I watch a ton of College football too. I am not "flaming" anyone.
And I sure as hell don't like every single prospect.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='14 April 2010 - 10:26 AM' timestamp='1271255167' post='877622']
How bout the previous 10 years?
[/quote]


drafted Coffman, brought in Utecht (a better receiver than blocker), signed Darius Hill to develop and activated him late in the season, drafted Sherry (a pass catching TE), tried to trade for Martellus Bennett (who your beloved scouts said was a better receiver than blocker), Marvin openly wanted to draft Anthony Fasano...



I see a whole lot of receiving first TE's.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='14 April 2010 - 10:28 AM' timestamp='1271255285' post='877625']
No offense, but I'll go with the opinion of the guys on the internet draft forum who know a ton about college football over you guys who like every single prospect and flame whoever disagrees with your opinion.
[/quote]


lol the hypocrisy in that post if flippin' hilarious.



"my opinion is the only way, and no one will EVER convince me otherwise" - akilimvp

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='14 April 2010 - 10:33 AM' timestamp='1271255593' post='877627']
drafted Coffman, brought in Utecht (a better receiver than blocker), signed Darius Hill to develop and activated him late in the season, drafted Sherry (a pass catching TE), tried to trade for Martellus Bennett (who your beloved scouts said was a better receiver than blocker), Marvin openly wanted to draft Anthony Fasano...



I see a whole lot of receiving first TE's.
[/quote]
Utecht is a good blocker and receiver, Darius Hill was undrafted, Sherry was a late 7th rounder, Bennett is BY FAR a better blocker than receiver, Fasano is BY FAR a better blocker than receiver

Coffman is why we aren't going to draft Gresham

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='14 April 2010 - 10:36 AM' timestamp='1271255792' post='877630']
Utecht is a good blocker and receiver, Darius Hill was undrafted, Sherry was a late 7th rounder, [b]Bennett is BY FAR a better blocker than receiver[/b], Fasano is BY FAR a better blocker than receiver

[b]Coffman is why we aren't going to draft Gresham[/b]
[/quote]


your precious scouts disagreed with you.


So coach Hayes went and worked out Gresham and put him through drills because he was bored that day? Mike Brown just wanted to throw some cash around on the travel expenses?

[oldschooler]

Scouts Inc on Gersham's blocking skills . . .


Big frame. Long arms to separate and feet to get in position but he has a lot of room for improvement as a blocker. His effort is erratic, he plays with a narrow base and he gets knocked back by initial pop at times. He doesn't always know his assignment. Is inconsistent blocking in space. Doesn't always get in ideal position.


No where does it say he CAN'T block. It says he has a lot of room for improvement.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='14 April 2010 - 10:28 AM' timestamp='1271255285' post='877625']
No offense, but I'll go with the opinion of the guys on the internet draft forum who know a ton about college football over you guys who like every single prospect and flame whoever disagrees with your opinion.
[/quote]


it's like you're completely oblivious to the things you say. There isn't a single person on this board that has said Gresham is an awesome blocker, or even that Mays is awesome in pass coverage.

What others HAVE said however is that they have talent in other areas and can improve their weaknesses.

You're hell-bent on believing that Gresham is a bad blocker and that he's NEVER going to improve. That just shows how narrow-minded you are and why this discussion gets nowhere. To you, its your opinion or nothing. At least the rest of us look at the other side of the coin. But you're stuck in the world of "no one is EVER going to convince me of this" (direct quote for the viewers at home).

THAT'S the problem with this discussion.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='14 April 2010 - 08:37 AM' timestamp='1271255861' post='877631']
your precious scouts disagreed with you.
[/quote]



Who is his precious scout? Please tell me it wasn't the guy from the RealGM site
that said they wouldn't draft Gersham until the 3rd round.

[scharm]

[quote]The biggest hole on the team that's funny. If it's such a giant hole why didn't they try and sign a free agent at the position?[/quote]

Silly arguement. The biggest hole currently is directly related to the moves they made prior to the draft. Starting at ground zero right after the playoff lost. The main theme was improve offensive surrounding cast around Carson. Since that time the pieces have fell in place that currently TE is biggest hole.

They have 1 realistic option for a roster spot currently that you know they will keep 3. Coates and the other scrub are training camp fodder. You can expect TE to be taken early and maybe late. If not late they will then circle around for Foschi or Kelly.

FA WRs vs. TEs? Look at the questions surrounding the college WRs vs. the depth of the College TEs. Going off projections there are about 7-9 TEs in the top 100 and about 3-5 of those considered 1st to 2nd rounders.

[quote]What is annoying is all of my friends who are Bengals fans, and just about everyone on the draft forum I frequent agree with me about Gresham and Mays, while nobody but maybe 2 or 3 here do. It makes so much sense to me and everyone who I talk to, yet here everyone thinks I am blasphemous.
[/quote]

Funny. Anyone that agrees with you is your friend. Anyone that doesn't is just some guys another board. Thanks alot pal.

[scharm]

[quote name='akiliMVP' date='14 April 2010 - 10:28 AM' timestamp='1271255285' post='877625']
No offense, but I'll go with the opinion of the guys on the internet draft forum who know a ton about college football over you guys who like every single prospect and flame whoever disagrees with your opinion.
[/quote]

Oh please. You do the same crap every year. You got projected picks that you like and don't like. That is no different than anyone on this board. However, the picks you don't like you trash to the extreme to try to validate your point.

For example, I don't like the thought of drafting Center/Guard in the first. Am I going to throw a bunch of bullshit around about those players just to cement my point? Maybe a little but no a whole lot because I know ultimately the draft is a crap shoot and even the actual experts are wrong way more than they are right.


These conversations about Mays and Gresham are so similar to the Rey discussions last year it is too funny.

[oldschooler]

This site gives Gresham an 8 in blocking skills. . .



[b]Reminds me of:[/b] Antonio Gates, TE San Diego-This is in terms of a pass catcher. They are very similar physically and create the same mismatches and exploit them. In terms of a run blocker, Gresham is probably a little better but it's very close. A healthy Gresham can absolutely be the player Gates is in the NFL.


[url="http://draftboardinsider.com/cgi-bin/prospect.cgi?id=723"]http://draftboardinsider.com/cgi-bin/prospect.cgi?id=723[/url]

[oldschooler]

John Thornton thinks the Bengals will go heavy on Defense
because of all the WRs they will face this year. And says
don't believe the TE in the 1st round talk.


@[url="http://twitter.com/TomHarnisch"][color="#009999"]TomHarnisch[/color][/url] roddy white this year too. Big year for defense. That's why they will go heavy D in draft. Dont believe the TE talk in rd 1
[url="http://twitter.com/JohnThornton/status/12167871609"]26 minutes ago[/url] via [url="http://tinyurl.com/tweetcaster"]TweetCaster[/url] [url="http://twitter.com/TomHarnisch/status/12167484465"]in reply to TomHarnisch[/url]

[BengalUprising9]

I may be in the minority but I would love the Gresham pick. He would give Carson a real threat down the middle of the field for the first time in Carson's career. Gresham may not be an elite blocker at this point in his career but people need to quit acting like he is at a Chase Coffman level coming out of school. He seems to be a hard worker and has the physical tools to develop into a solid blocker which is all that is needed with the receiving skills he brings.

[Bengals1181]

I just don't see how any fan of a team that had Dennis Roland go out for passes as a TE [b]multiple[/b] times last year would think its beyond a decent chance that a tight end will be a viable first round option.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='14 April 2010 - 08:42 AM' timestamp='1271259760' post='877652']
I just don't see how any fan of a team that had Dennis Roland go out for passes as a TE [b]multiple[/b] times last year would think its beyond a decent chance that a tight end will be a viable first round option.
[/quote]

I don't contest that it could work. I just don't see compelling evidence that the team has changed its TE philosophy. Last year they were always talking about 'emphasizing the run' when they changed how they did things. This year, not so much chatter about a TE and the only move so far was resigning Coats.

[mullichicken25]

i've actually done a 180 on picking Gresham at 21...didn't like it at all initially because we have Chase and i felt it would be a missed oppritunity to upgrade other positions. However, if they take Gresham @ 21 then its a pretty clear indication that they really don't think Chase is going to be able to contribute for a little while. If they pick Gresham then Chase must really be more of a question mark than I was thinking/hoping

TE certainlly is a weakness and if he is the BPA when we pick, then so be it

My first choice though would be someone on defense...the more weapons for Zimmer the better.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='mullichicken25' date='14 April 2010 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1271266412' post='877688']
i've actually done a 180 on picking Gresham at 21...didn't like it at all initially because we have Chase and i felt it would be a missed oppritunity to upgrade other positions. However, if they take Gresham @ 21 then its a pretty clear indication that they really don't think Chase is going to be able to contribute for a little while. If they pick Gresham then Chase must really be more of a question mark than I was thinking/hoping

TE certainlly is a weakness and if he is the BPA when we pick, then so be it

My first choice though would be someone on defense...the more weapons for Zimmer the better.
[/quote]


not necessarily. I know some disagree, but I think Chase and Gresham can both exist on the same team and succeed.

[mullichicken25]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='14 April 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1271268016' post='877698']
not necessarily. I know some disagree, but I think Chase and Gresham can both exist on the same team and succeed.
[/quote]
i agree, and i think it would be pretty nasty to have both, but i just dont see them using the 1st on a TE if they think Chase is ready to take the field....i'd think they'd address a bigger position of concern at that point

[cassanos]

I want Dez now more than ever, I will not accept the Ravens Drafting this guy

[BengalsFanFromNY]

Coffman sucks balls, it was very clear last year. Yes I know some players take a few years to develop but he was just straight up clueless (Like Jerome S.).

To bad Gresham wont be there at 21.