Jeb Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 Meltdown, ...a new Chernobyl. Eerie how the Tepco website has the same descriptions of lost workers and injuries (even the crane operator died) that the early reports from Chernobyl had, ...almost word for word before they knew how bad things truly were. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPQ9qgry9C8 It's very likely the jet stream will carry it to our West coast next and could pollute most of the fertile land in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [url="http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm"]http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patmo Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='BengalBacker' timestamp='1299828304' post='976556'] I don't know where you are in Japan, but I've never seen anything like the devastation I'm watching on tv right now. Hoping you're ok. [/quote] Very thoughtful, Backer. Props ! Mully.... glad to hear you're OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actium Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Stay safe, Old Sport. We won't be able to learn the "truth" about what's happening in the nuke plants for many moons. But as it is, the aftermath of the earthquake and tsunami are fearsome enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Ben' timestamp='1300036898' post='976854'] [url="http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm"]http://www.abc.net.a...beforeafter.htm[/url] [/quote] Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12725646"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12725646[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 [quote name='Actium' timestamp='1300039925' post='976861'] Stay safe, Old Sport. We won't be able to learn the "truth" about what's happening in the nuke plants for many moons. But as it is, the aftermath of the earthquake and tsunami are fearsome enough [/quote] It's one thing for your country to be hit by a mega quake and mega tsunami, ...its a whole other problem to be poisoned by a melting nuclear reactor(s). That is very long term damage to everything. All are affected. It doesn't help to be dumping sea water, used for cooling "the reactor", right back into the ocean. You've got to be desperate to do that. Sea water is normally used to cool the cooling radiator of the plant which in itself uses a purified water to cool the system components. The sea water normally doesn't come in contact with radiation. Btw, ...I've been following this since the beginning of the problem with the plants. Early on Tepco said one of the control rods would not lower in reactor #1. Then they said iodine and cesium were present at the front gate sensors. No surprise with me it blew steam and hydrogen. (note: the super-brief explosion of the roof going straight up in the video. The flame is visible only very briefly, ...typical of a hydrogen explosion) That thing is running hot and I don't know if they know how to fix and cool it back down. It might be too warped to fit back in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 http://www.voanews.com/english/news/usa/Expert-Nuclear-Radiation-Could-Spread-Far-Beyond-Japan-117899079.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 http://video.l3.fbcdn.net/cfs-l3-snc6/81489/34/1605260179420_2624.mp4?oh=ac31b4d8738221641ba490396dc19636&oe=4D7F9F00&l3s=20110313100648&l3e=20110315101648&lh=0a6cfa5eeaecd6dc12abf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Jeb' timestamp='1300054798' post='976875'] It's one thing for your country to be hit by a mega quake and mega tsunami, ...its a whole other problem to be poisoned by a melting nuclear reactor(s). That is very long term damage to everything. All are affected. It doesn't help to be dumping sea water, used for cooling "the reactor", right back into the ocean. You've got to be desperate to do that. Sea water is normally used to cool the cooling radiator of the plant which in itself uses a purified water to cool the system components. The sea water normally doesn't come in contact with radiation. Btw, ...I've been following this since the beginning of the problem with the plants. Early on Tepco said one of the control rods would not lower in reactor #1. Then they said iodine and cesium were present at the front gate sensors. No surprise with me it blew steam and hydrogen. (note: the super-brief explosion of the roof going straight up in the video. The flame is visible only very briefly, ...typical of a hydrogen explosion) That thing is running hot and I don't know if they know how to fix and cool it back down. It might be too warped to fit back in place. [/quote] How incredibly ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1300061578' post='976886'] How incredibly ironic. [/quote] Reactor #3 just blew up (same plant) ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_N-wNFSGyQ This reactor has a lot more fire and it doesn't look like an all hydrogen explosion since hydrogen is lighter than air then it travels upward when released to the atmosphere and as I said before, ...it burns extremely fast whereas this fire looks slower. Reactor #2 cooling has stopped, ...it should be the next to go. That's #1, #2, and #3 all in some state of meltdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 Reactor #2 ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12733393 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Radiation is going up around the plant ... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/world/asia/15nuclear.html?_r=2&hp Reactor #2 blew up and there is a fire at reactor #4. http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/15_13.html http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/index.html [quote]Tokyo Electric Power Company says radiation levels reached 8,217 microsieverts per hour near the front gate of the Fukushima No.1 nuclear power station at 8:31 AM Tuesday. Anyone in this kind of environment would be exposed to more than 3 years' worth of naturally occurring radiation within a single hour. (NHK) Read it on Global News: Japan Earthquake | 9.0 Magnitude Quake | Video Coverage | Page 10 | Liveblog live blogging | Global News[/quote] [quote]Number 4 reactor is now seeing a fire. At the time of the quake, No. 4 was not inoperation... There was spent fuel in the reactor. Number 4 reactor is currently burning. In the case of No. 1 and No.3 the outer building was blown off, but for No.4 it seems burning objects fell inside the No.4 reactor. Hydrogen is being generated (sic), so we assume radiation is also being released... With regard to No. 2 reactor a (..) blast was heard this morning. As for the second reactor a whole was observed... ... As of 10:22 a.m. between reactors No. 2 and No. 3 radiation measured 30 millisievert, 400 millisievert around reactor No. 3(To be confirmed), 100 millisievert by No.4. Millisievert is a higher measurement than microsievert, which we have previously been using.. We are now talking about levels that can impact human health. These are levels taken near the reactors, the further you go away the (lower the level) Please say indoors. Do not hang your laundry outdoors. The radiation spread will depend on the wind speed and wind direction. So, please stay indoors so you will not be exposed to any radiation that may come your way ... We believe the fluctuation is related to the No. 4 fire and not the No. 2 explosion. Read it on Global News: Japan Earthquake | 9.0 Magnitude Quake | Video Coverage | Page 10 | Liveblog live blogging | Global News [/quote] http://liveblogs.globalnews.ca/Event/Japan_Quake?utm_source=facebook-twitter&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=community Edit: They are now saying the #2 reactor blew a hole in the cooling pool but the containment building is still intact. The #4 reactor was being used for storage of spent fuel rods and that the fire developed when those spent rods overheated. Supposedly, the #4 reactor now has no containment building left like the #1 and #3 reactors (I didn't hear about an explosion at the #4?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Mully, ...now would be a good time for a vacation, ...overseas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 15, 2011 Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 Another Cincy native in Japan teaching English ... [url="http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Green-Township-Native-Survives-Earthquake/SucuOnizsEijA__RAOGY2Q.cspx"]http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Green-Township-Native-Survives-Earthquake/SucuOnizsEijA__RAOGY2Q.cspx[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote]Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant AP By ERIC TALMADGE and SHINO YUASA, Associated Press Eric Talmadge And Shino Yuasa, Associated Press – 36 mins ago FUKUSHIMA, Japan – Japan suspended operations to keep its stricken nuclear plant from melting down Wednesday after surging radiation made it too dangerous to stay. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the workers dousing the reactors in a frantic effort to cool them needed to withdraw. "The workers cannot carry out even minimal work at the plant now," Edano said. "Because of the radiation risk we are on standby." The nuclear crisis has triggered international alarm and partly overshadowed the human tragedy caused by Friday's earthquake and tsunami, which pulverized Japan's northeastern coastline, killing an estimated 10,000 people and severely damaging the nuclear plant. Since then, authorities have tried frantically to avert an environmental catastrophe at the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex in northeastern Japan, 140 miles (220 kilometers) north of Tokyo. Edano said the government expects to ask the U.S. military for help. He did not elaborate. He said the government is still considering whether and how to take up the various offers of help from other countries. The surge in radiation was apparently the result of a Tuesday fire in the complex's Unit 4 reactor, according to officials with Japan's nuclear safety agency. That blast is thought to have damaged the reactor's suppression chamber, a water-filled pipe outside the nuclear core that is part of the emergency cooling system. Officials had originally planned use helicopters and fire trucks to spray water in a desperate effort to prevent further radiation leaks and to cool down the reactors. "It's not so simple that everything will be resolved by pouring in water. We are trying to avoid creating other problems," Edano said. "We are actually supplying water from the ground, but supplying water from above involves pumping lots of water and that involves risk. We also have to consider the safety of the helicopters above," he said. A U.S. nuclear expert said he feared the worst. "It's more of a surrender," said David Lochbaum, a nuclear engineer who now heads the nuclear safety program for the Union of Concerned Scientists, an activist group. "It's not like you wait 10 days and the radiation goes away. In that 10 days things are going to get worse." "It's basically a sign that there's nothing left to do but throw in the towel," Lochbaum said. The government has ordered some 140,000 people in the vicinity to stay indoors. A little radiation was also detected in Tokyo, triggering panic buying of food and water. There are six reactors at the plant, and the three that were operating at the time have been rocked by explosions. The one still on fire was offline at the time of the magnitude 9.0 quake, Japan's most powerful on record. Japan's nuclear safety agency estimated that 70 percent of the rods have been damaged at the No. 1 reactor. Japan's national news agency, Kyodo, said that 33 percent of the fuel rods at the No. 2 reactor were damaged and that the cores of both reactors were believed to have partially melted. "We don't know the nature of the damage," said Minoru Ohgoda, spokesman for Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, or NISA. "It could be either melting, or there might be some holes in them." Meanwhile, the outer housing of the containment vessel at the No. 4 unit erupted in flames early Wednesday, said Hajimi Motujuku, a spokesman for the plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co. NISA said fire and smoke could no longer be seen at Unit 4, but that it was unable to confirm that the blaze had been put out. [/quote] http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 This is a message from the British Embassy. America and Canada are saying the same thing. [quote]Message from the British Embassy I have just returned from a conference call held at the British Embassy in Tokyo. The call was concerning the nuclear issue in Japan. The chief spokesman was Sir. John Beddington, Chief Scientific Adviser to the UK Government, and he was joined by a number of qualified nuclear experts based in the UK. Their assessment of the current situation in Japan is as follows: * In case of a 'reasonable worst case scenario' (defined as total meltdown of one reactor with subsequent radioactive explosion) an exclusion zone of 30 miles (50km) would be the maximum required to avoid affecting peoples' health. Even in a worse situation (loss of two or more reactors) it is unlikely that the damage would be significantly more than that caused by the loss of a single reactor. * The current 20km exclusion zone is appropriate for the levels of radiation/risk currently experienced, and if the pouring of sea water can be maintained to cool the reactors, the likelihood of a major incident should be avoided. A further large quake with tsunami could lead to the suspension of the current cooling operations, leading to the above scenario. * The bottom line is that these experts do not see there being a possibility of a health problem for residents in Tokyo. The radiation levels would need to be hundreds of times higher than current to cause the possibility for health issues, and that, in their opinion, is not going to happen (they were talking minimum levels affecting pregnant women and children - for normal adults the levels would need to be much higher still). * The experts do not consider the wind direction to be material. They say Tokyo is too far away to be materially affected. * If the pouring of water can be maintained the situation should be much improved after ten days, as the reactors' cores cool down. * Information being provided by Japanese authorities is being independently monitored by a number of organizations and is deemed to be accurate, as far as measures of radioactivity levels are concerned. * This is a very different situation from Chernobyl, where the reactor went into meltdown and the encasement, which exploded, was left to burn for weeks without any control. Even with Chernobyl, an exclusion zone of 30 miles would have been adequate to protect human health. The problem was that most people became sick from eating contaminated food, crops, milk and water in the region for years afterward, as no attempt was made to measure radioactivity levels in the food supply at that time or warn people of the dangers. The secrecy over the Chernobyl explosion is in contrast to the very public coverage of the Fukushima crisis. * The Head of the British School asked if the school should remain closed. The answer was there is no need to close the school due to fears of radiation. There may well be other reasons - structural damage or possible new quakes - but the radiation fear is not supported by scientific measures, even for children. * Regarding Iodine supplementation, the experts said this was only necessary for those who had inhaled quantities of radiation (those in the exclusion zone or workers on the site) or through consumption of contaminated food/water supplies. Long term consumption of iodine is, in any case, not healthy. The discussion was surprisingly frank and to the point. The conclusion of the experts is that the damage caused by the earthquake and tsunami, as well as the subsequent aftershocks, was much more of an issue than the fear of radiation sickness from the nuclear plants.[/quote] Let me add that I am about 450km from that place. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 To kill this meltdown they need to inject a nitrogen shroud to the containment vessels or if breached to the building. Then add massive amounts of samarium and / or hafnium to the area where the rods are located and along with another hefty dose of boron. Samarium and hafnium are superior to boron alone. All these elements are neutron eaters, ...what the industry uses to kill the nuclear reaction, ...or poison the well so it can't react. Why the experts in the world nuclear industry haven't suggested this is beyond me. They seem to be content to just sit around and watch it melt down. You can get the nitrogen generators anywhere, ...I'm sure Japan has them. The automakers have the industrial compressors. Samarium is available in China and its likely China will give it to them for free. Germany stocks hafnium for their nuclear industry and I'm sure will donate some (they know all about how to use hafnium). Boron is a short term fix to kill the reaction. Samarium and hafnium break down into isotopes as they eat (absorb) the neutrons that in themselves are also neutron eaters so its a timed release effect over many generations of the breakdown during that process. It's an effective way to "poison the well" or kill the reaction. It's a one-two knock out punch for a reactor. Notice they keep having problems with the reactors heating back up again. That means they only had the reaction under control for a short time and that says they are only using boron and its also one more symptom that the rods are melting and that boron isn't going to be effective enough to get the job done and poison the reaction. They need to get some order back over that chaos of multiple failures and the best way to do that is time-released suppression of the reaction in each vessel. Chernobyl taught us a lot. Samarium and hafnium (as well as other neutron eaters) are natural byproducts of the nuclear reaction. They were present in the "elephants foot" at Chernobyl. There is about a handful of these helpful elements that are created and help kill the nuclear reaction. There is no such thing as a "China Syndrome," ...It's a myth. The elements take over and eventually kill the reaction on their own as the mass creates them as byproducts. I say, ...WHY WAIT? Get some samarium from China and dump it in those reactors along with some more boron and contain those buildings/reactors in a nitrogen shroud. At that point, ...even if the rods melted into a mass, ...the elements would have an effect on the mass. Those same elements stopped the Chernobyl mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Fulcher_33' timestamp='1300256842' post='977220'] This is a message from the British Embassy. America and Canada are saying the same thing. Let me add that I am about 450km from that place. MULLY [/quote] [quote]* Regarding Iodine supplementation, the experts said this was only necessary for those who had inhaled quantities of radiation (those in the exclusion zone or workers on the site) or through consumption of contaminated food/water supplies. Long term consumption of iodine is, in any case, not healthy.[/quote] I have problems with some of the things they are stating (I'll let it go) but this one is the most disturbing statement. There is no point in taking the iodine pills after you have inhaled the poison. The idea is to take the pills before you inhale the poison. Prussian Blue is the only drug I've heard of to counteract the poison after ingestion (I'm not sure if that would work in the lungs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 It's about time somebody stepped up to the plate ... [quote]Korea to send 56 tons of boric acid to Japan ListenListen MARCH 17, 2011 10:08 The Korean government will send to Japan 56.2 tons of boric acid to help the latter cope with its unfolding nuclear crisis triggered by Friday`s massive earthquake and tsunami. Boric acid is a key material containing boron that goes into control rods used to halt or slow down fission reactions at nuclear reactors. The Knowledge Economy Ministry in Seoul said Wednesday that Kansai Electric Power Co. requested the material through the Korea Trade-Investment Promotion Agency, adding, “We can supply the requested amount of boric acid since our reserves are 309 tons. The remainder (256 tons) is adequate for six months of use.”[/quote] http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=020000&biid=2011031750838 Now, ...what about China? ...and Germany? ...why don't you guys offer some of the really good stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBeotch Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 was thinkin about you and your wife as well.... glad you were far enough away from it but soooo sad for all those effected by it! Praying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 [quote name='BengalBeotch' timestamp='1300493010' post='978177'] was thinkin about you and your wife as well.... glad you were far enough away from it but soooo sad for all those effected by it! Praying! [/quote] Yeah, it's definitely an ugly situation, no two ways about that. I'm trying my best to get back to a normal life. This week has been so stressful. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Jeb, some of your stuff is alarmist. There's absolutely no comparison to the Chernobyl meltdown and what is happening in Japan. Chernobyl was a stupid and unsafe design to begin with, the meltdown the result of stupid actions on the part of the control room workers and the aftermath a gigantic coverup by the embarrassed USSR...none of these things are happening in Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1300494484' post='978194'] Jeb, some of your stuff is alarmist. [b]There's absolutely no comparison to the Chernobyl meltdown and what is happening in Japan.[/b] Chernobyl was a stupid and unsafe design to begin with, the meltdown the result of stupid actions on the part of the control room workers and the aftermath a gigantic coverup by the embarrassed USSR...none of these things are happening in Japan. [/quote] Plus, if you go deep enough, all the way into the Sarcophagus... There it's rumored to be an entity that will grant your wishes... But everyone who has been there are dead or insane, so who knows... Good luck stalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1300495527' post='978204'] Plus, if you go deep enough, all the way into the Sarcophagus... There it's rumored to be an entity that will grant your wishes... But everyone who has been there are dead or insane, so who knows... Good luck stalker. [/quote] Fountain Of Youth, Genie In a Bottle, Ark Of The Covenant... [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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