Bengals Free Agents Status (Pollak, Tate, Rey, Sanzenbacher and Mays re-sign)(Dontay Moch back)

[EnglishBengal]

If we replace Dalton, at least do it with a younger guy or younger FA with some upside, rather than recruiting patch-work old timers to become full-time starters with too much tread in their tyres. This move would reek of desperation when the team is past all this right now.

Anyway, Vick is no more accurate than Dalton, and his play has been just as volatile.

[F.Cleveland]

Are you trying to say Mike Vick doesn't have good arm strength?

David Klingler had arm strength. Shhhh.

[MichaelWeston]

If we replace Dalton, at least do it with a younger guy or younger FA with some upside, rather than recruiting patch-work old timers to become full-time starters with too much tread in their tyres. This move would reek of desperation when the team is past all this right now.

Anyway, Vick is no more accurate than Dalton, and his play has been just as volatile.

 

I don't think Vick is a long term solution or a great one, I simply stated awhile a go that of everyone available I would take him over Dalton. I think it's arguable that Dalton is better but for me it doesn't make much sense to keep going to battle with the same weapons that didn't work the last three times.

[JBandJoeyV]

 
Are you trying to say Mike Vick doesn't have good arm strength?

Are you trying to say arm strength means a good deep ball?

You continue to impress me every time you post.

[JBandJoeyV]

 
I don't think Vick is a long term solution or a great one, I simply stated awhile a go that of everyone available I would take him over Dalton. I think it's arguable that Dalton is better but for me it doesn't make much sense to keep going to battle with the same weapons that didn't work the last three times.

Because no qb has ever improved after his first three playoff games.

I've posted this many times and not going to go out and run the stats again but there are a bunch of great qbs and Super Bowl winning qbs that struggled in their first 2-4 playoff games.

[alleycat]

 

for me it doesn't make much sense to keep going to battle with the same weapons that didn't work the last three times.

 

Then why do you keep doing it?

[MichaelWeston]

Are you trying to say arm strength means a good deep ball?

You continue to impress me every time you post.

I said he would never underthrow AJ.

 

You continue to disappoint me. You are aggressively critical even though you don't take time for a thoughtful response and it stunts conversation. You are not here for that though are you?

[MichaelWeston]

Because no qb has ever improved after his first three playoff games.

I've posted this many times and not going to go out and run the stats again but there are a bunch of great qbs and Super Bowl winning qbs that struggled in their first 2-4 playoff games.

How many playoff games would it take? He has quite a large sample size.

[JBandJoeyV]

I said he would never underthrow AJ.
 
You continue to disappoint me. You are aggressively critical even though you don't take time for a thoughtful response and it stunts conversation. You are not here for that though are you?

Just because a qb has good arm strength doesn't mean he wouldn't under throw balls. That argument is idiotic.

[JBandJoeyV]

How many playoff games would it take? He has quite a large sample size.

Go look at joe flacco, Peyton manning, tom Brady, Matt Ryan, etc stats in their first 3 playoff games. Not all of them but a lot of them are very similar to Dalton's.

Not saying dalton will for sure take the next step but many qbs in his similar situations have.

I'd rather have a qb that can get you to the playoffs every year and hope that you catch a good run in the playoffs and win a championship then take a guy who hasnt proven shit like mike glennon or someone.

But to answer your question, at this point I'd give him this year as it's obvious the bengals intend to. If it is still set up well for him and he chokes in the playoffs (barring any big reasons out of his control) then I'd prob find a way to move on.

[MichaelWeston]

Just because a qb has good arm strength doesn't mean he wouldn't under throw balls. That argument is idiotic.

 

My mind is blown by you thinking this makes sense and is an argument you want to invest time in.

[alleycat]

I said he would never underthrow AJ.

 

You continue to disappoint me. You are aggressively critical even though you don't take time for a thoughtful response and it stunts conversation. You are not here for that though are you?

 

Pretty soon, Michael, you're going to have to face the fact that the reason so many people speak to you the way that you do is because that's how people treat ill-logic and immaturity and relentless repetition.  You live in a fantasy land, and no amount of evidence contrary to your beliefs will keep you from harping on the same ridiculous bullshit. You're hearing the word troll bandied about you a lot for good reason, because that's how your ridiculously myopic drivel comes across. 

 

Come back to planet earth - AKA reality - and operate within some spectrum of plausibility and you might find people think of you as something more than a someone who falls somewhere along the autistic spectrum.

[MichaelWeston]

Go look at joe flacco, Peyton manning, tom Brady, Matt Ryan, etc stats in their first 3 playoff games. Not all of them but a lot of them are very similar to Dalton's.

Not saying dalton will for sure take the next step but many qbs in his similar situations have.

I'd rather have a qb that can get you to the playoffs every year and hope that you catch a good run in the playoffs and win a championship then take a guy who hasnt proven shit like mike glennon or someone.

But to answer your question, at this point I'd give him this year as it's obvious the bengals intend to. If it is still set up well for him and he chokes in the playoffs (barring any big reasons out of his control) then I'd prob find a way to move on.

So it's absurd to move on now....but next year is enough time.

[JC]

Fellers.  I understand that backup QB is an issue, but I keep coming to this thread thinking I'm going to find some news on our FA's and not Andy Dalton.  I'm not trying to be a dick, but lets keep to news about our guys and potential signings instead of Andy, maybe plz..

 

Or carry on.  But I keep getting excited seeing this thing getting bumped thinking theres some possibly AC/MJ news.

[alleycat]

 

My mind is blown.

 

Why do I think this is a never-ending occurrence for you?

[alleycat]

Fellers.  I understand that backup QB is an issue, but I keep coming to this thread thinking I'm going to find some news on our FA's and not Andy Dalton.  I'm not trying to be a dick, but lets keep to news about our guys and potential signings instead of Andy, maybe plz..

 

Or carry on.  But I keep getting excited seeing this thing getting bumped thinking theres some possibly AC/MJ news.

I agree, although I would like to reserve the right to continue to belittle MichaelWeston, as it's now clear to me that he's public enemy #1 in terms of generating wasted clicks.

[MichaelWeston]

I agree, although I would like to reserve the right to continue to belittle MichaelWeston, as it's now clear to me that he's public enemy #1 in terms of generating wasted clicks.

You fuck. You brought it up.

 

Why do I think this is a never-ending occurrence for you?

Because you are an idiot?

[MichaelWeston]

 

Pretty soon, Michael, you're going to have to face the fact that the reason so many people speak to you the way that you do is because that's how people treat ill-logic and immaturity and relentless repetition.  You live in a fantasy land, and no amount of evidence contrary to your beliefs will keep you from harping on the same ridiculous bullshit. You're hearing the word troll bandied about you a lot for good reason, because that's how your ridiculously myopic drivel comes across. 

 

Come back to planet earth - AKA reality - and operate within some spectrum of plausibility and you might find people think of you as something more than a someone who falls somewhere along the autistic spectrum.

 

Asperbergers?

[alleycat]

So it's absurd to move on now....but next year is enough time.

 

See, this is your problem, now laid clear in technicolor.  The reason I mentioned Aspergers to you before is because of your glaring inability to understand context.

 

Your thoughts about MJ are just as oblivious to context as your thoughts about AD.

 

MJ's context is his market value, the money our team has already spent on the D-Line (and the Defense as a whole), but most importantly the reality of the other mega-stars we will try to sign THIS YEAR to big deals.  You don't spend 10% of your total salary on your 7th most important player when you can take some of that money right now to help lock down your 3 of your top 5 guys now.

 

As for AD, he's simply the best option we have.  No one has said he's the second coming yet.  But to think that there's a better option in the league THAT'S AVAILABLE (and that's important) right now is simply tone deaf to reality.  Where we would pick there isn't a guy in this draft who would be a better option than Dalton over the next TWO years (and we won't trade up, because we don't (i.e. context) - but even if we did there's nothing suggesting ANY QB in this draft would be better; you're taking hypotheticals versus the reality of a proven commodity).  And why on earth you think any VET FA (no, not Payton Manning, or Tom Brady, or Aaron Rodgers - because they aren't AVAILABLE (context)), would come in here and give us a better season next year under a new system than Dalton simply betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of the game of football.

 

Admittedly, that's slightly bigger than context, but I think we'd all be happy if you could even manage a few baby steps here.

 

Reality is important.  And understanding context is fundamental to understanding reality.

 

Here's some reading for you:

 

https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/voice/Pages/Communication-Problems-in-Children-with-Autism-Spectrum-Disorder.aspx

[alleycat]

You fuck. You brought it up.

 

 

No, I didn't. I was simply making a broad comment on our FA news, and YOU turned it into a Dalton specific moment:

 

 

 

Peko extension means they will lower his cap hit.  All others are, of course, welcomed as well.

 

 

Dalton is certainly not welcomed with the same universality as those other two. Of course is certainly not the right phrase. 

 

But then we've already established your contextual issues, so maybe we really shouldn't be holding any of this against you, should we?  You have special needs, after all.

[MichaelWeston]

 

No, I didn't. I was simply making a broad comment on our FA news, and YOU turned it into a Dalton specific moment:

 

 

 

 

But then we've already established your contextual issues, so maybe we really shouldn't be holding any of this against you, should we?  You have special needs, after all.

 

 

"Of course" we need to re-sign dalton. I disagreed with that.

[MichaelWeston]

 

See, this is your problem, now laid clear in technicolor.  The reason I mentioned Aspergers to you before is because of your glaring inability to understand context.

 

Your thoughts about MJ are just as oblivious to context as your thoughts about AD.

 

MJ's context is his market value, the money our team has already spent on the D-Line (and the Defense as a whole), but most importantly the reality of the other mega-stars we will try to sign THIS YEAR to big deals.  You don't spend 10% of your total salary on your 7th most important player when you can take some of that money right now to help lock down your 3 of your top 5 guys now.

 

As for AD, he's simply the best option we have.  No one has said he's the second coming yet.  But to think that there's a better option in the league THAT'S AVAILABLE (and that's important) right now is simply tone deaf to reality.  Where we would pick there isn't a guy in this draft who would be a better option than Dalton over the next TWO years (and we won't trade up, because we don't (i.e. context) - but even if we did there's nothing suggesting ANY QB in this draft would be better; you're taking hypotheticals versus the reality of a proven commodity).  And why on earth you think any VET FA (no, not Payton Manning, or Tom Brady, or Aaron Rodgers - because they aren't AVAILABLE (context)), would come in here and give us a better season next year under a new system than Dalton simply betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of the game of football.

 

Admittedly, that's slightly bigger than context, but I think we'd all be happy if you could even manage a few baby steps here.

 

Reality is important.  And understanding context is fundamental to understanding reality.

 

Here's some reading for you:

 

https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/voice/Pages/Communication-Problems-in-Children-with-Autism-Spectrum-Disorder.aspx

 

This cracks me up. You are berating someone, treating them just awfully because you disagree with their take on a free agent on a Bengals message board and then you are telling them they have communication problems. That they have no understanding of context. That they are thinking myopically. You have 0 understanding of this disorder and I work with people on the spectrum as part of my daily life. Your understanding of it is absurdly juvenile. You may have watched a Dr. Oz clip about it one day or something. I don't know where you started thinking it was funny or cool to tell people they were on the Autism spectrum but it isn't. People suffer from this disorder every single day of their life. You wouldn't joke about cancer or diabetes or anything like that. Have some compassion and empathy for christsakes. I can't imagine anything worse than thinking it's cool to pick on an autistic kid.

 

Besides. Lets say I am personally on the Autism spectrum. (I am not) How big of an asshole are you to attack someone and tell them they are on the autism spectrum? Where in your life did something go so off that you feel that is an appropriate way to treat a human being. That type of thinking only stems from a cognitive disorder of some sort. At some point you learned this behavior was ok. I have no idea when, but it simply isn't. You should try to unlearn it.

 

Back to the football discussion of context. I fully understand the context.

1. The cap is increasing by a large amount this year and a much larger amount next year and the year after. The money is there if we want it to be there.

2. While the amount of money you spend on a particular position should be a factor, what needs to be realized is that you don't get to choose who becomes your blue chip players. The team makes educated guesses about what players will be good and which ones won't and then puts them into the system. When you hit on a player you should keep them. If it was as simple as I can allocate so much money to one position and only so much to another that would be great. The problem is there is no guarantee that you will hit on a player that is worth a large amount of money at each position. You can try, and you should try, to have a balance, but there just simply isn't a guarantee. So when you hit on a player you love, that fits your system perfectly, that fits the mentality of your team, sometimes you have to ignore the balance you want and overpay at that position. A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the Bush.

3."The reality of the other mega-stars we will try to sign THIS YEAR to big deals." The reality is that you don't have to do it and by doing it you are directly sacrificing the quality of your football team in 2014. The point is that while re-signing these guys early might be nice, it's an unncessary luxury when it costs you one of your best players and a certain star on your defense. Burfict and AJ Green will be with your team in 2014. You can make it so both Burfict and Green are with your team for 2015 by utilizing rules that the NFL has created for you to be able to do that. Rushing to sign them early at the cost of one of your best players is completely ignoring the context of the situation

4. QBs have had much earlier success recently the first years in their systems. Rookies, vets swapping teams all of that. That's inarguable even though you take the opposite of it as a premise in your flawed argument. And this team is perfectly put together for a QB to have quick success. Great defense, solid line, great running back, solid TE's and a great jump ball WR with terrific body control.  I agree that the Market for QBs isn't great in anyway. Vick is the only guy who I would swap with Dalton this year and I think that's risky as hell as well. Investing long term in a QB that has proven to be awful on the big stage an allowing him to eat up your cap is an absurd risk not worth taking.

[alleycat]

Aww.  LOL.

 

The righteous sympathy card.

 

You're reading me as sincerely believing you have autism is so spectacularly numb to context (you've never once shown you have any since of humor/sarcasm, etc.), that I think you may actually be on the spectrum.

 

:lmao

[MichaelWeston]

Aww.  LOL.

 

The righteous sympathy card.

 

You're reading me as sincerely believing you have autism is so spectacularly numb to context (you've never once shown you have any since of humor/sarcasm, etc.), that I think you may actually be on the spectrum.

 

:lmao

Good Luck man

 

Do they hand out a playbook to guys like you? Step one. Be an asshole. Step two. Tell the person they are throwing the sympathy card when they call you out for being an asshole.

 

I don't know where you started thinking it was funny or cool to tell people they were on the Autism spectrum but it isn't. People suffer from this disorder every single day of their life. You wouldn't joke about cancer or diabetes or anything like that. Have some compassion and empathy for christsakes. I can't imagine anything worse than thinking it's cool to pick on an autistic kid.

[EnglishBengal]

 
I don't think Vick is a long term solution or a great one, I simply stated awhile a go that of everyone available I would take him over Dalton. I think it's arguable that Dalton is better but for me it doesn't make much sense to keep going to battle with the same weapons that didn't work the last three times.

Mr Weston, you ignore the fact that Dalton will be playing for an OC not named Jay Gruden for the first time in his career, and a damn good one at that.

You can moan all you want at season's end if everything goes tits-up for Dalton. Until then put a sock in it!