The PatternMaster Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Fine, since you need to be spoon fed like your bosom brothers MW and B.A.B... First of all, often, cap hits are bigger in the first year of a new deal (with us), but let's put that aside. Burfict has every reason to expect $5M/year (and in short order could threaten Patrick Willis proportions of $10M). MJ wants 8M Collins reportedly wants 6-7M. AJ will get Calvin Johnson money, but the best case scenario would be, let's say, $14M And the of course, there's Andy Dalton. You may not want to sign him but the team you root for does. That one's a wild-card, but let's say it's going to land somewhere between $10 and $16M. (And that doesn't even look down the road to upcoming and early resigns like Gio, or Marvin Jones, etc). Now, do I need to add it all up for you too? LMFAO, Robert Geathers and his $2.5M suddenly take care of everything... There are guys coming off the books that will allow them to resign all of these guys if they wanted to...Guys like Hall, Peko, Smith, Whitworth, Cook, and Gresham coming off the books would allow you to resign all of the guys you mentioned and get under the ever expanding cap. You don't know what the cap will be in 2015 or 2016, so stop acting like a know-it-all douche...if that is possible..which doesn't seem like it is. You are such a smug little bastard, I guarantee you wouldn't so damn sassy if we were having this conversation face to face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PatternMaster Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Well let me EXACTLY your EXACTLY! It's amazing to me how our little trio of diaper-whiners thinks football is any different from any other business, or basic real life arena for that matter. Our story: So let's say say Michael Weston goes to the car dealership, because he wants to buy a new Toyota Prius. It's an economic car with great gas mileage so a card carrying young liberal-minded fella like Michael is happy to pay something around the $25,000 MSRP he found when he went online to see how much the car was worth, and how much others were paying. However, the car dealer has gotten wind of the fact that Michael works with autistic children in his spare-time, and as such is clearly a rich man, so when Michael shows up, the car dealer tells him he'd be happy to sell him the Prius - for $30,000. Now, Michael protests just like we all would, because he happens to know the car is worth only $25,000. But the car dealer protests just as vehemently, because, after all, he knows Michael has more than that -- so why shouldn't he spend more? He can afford it, right? Michael tries to tell the dealer about all of the other things he wants to do with the money, the school bills to pay, the sex-change for his wife -- but the dealer will hear none of it. Quite simply, he knows Michael has more than money than the normal $25,000 asking price, and people who have more should pay more, regardless of what something is actually worth. In fact, it's suddenly worth more! Right? The End. Epilogue: Michael is so upset that he curses the dealer in a way he only recently learned from the internet bullies at Go-Bengals.com, and refuses to buy the car. Shortly there-after, a somewhat sadder looking sack of shit shows up and within minutes shakes hands with the dealer, and drives off with the very same Prius - having spent only the original $25,000 asking price. Michael cries foul, but the dealer shrugs him off with a laugh and says, "Sorry. You lose because you were being cheap." What are you talking about? You probably thought you were being clever and funny, except for the fact that your scenario makes no sense.. but carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkesn Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 There are guys coming off the books that will allow them to resign all of these guys if they wanted to...Guys like Hall, Peko, Smith, Whitworth, Cook, and Gresham coming off the books would allow you to resign all of the guys you mentioned and get under the ever expanding cap. You don't know what the cap will be in 2015 or 2016, so stop acting like a know-it-all douche...if that is possible..which doesn't seem like it is. You are such a smug little bastard, I guarantee you wouldn't so damn sassy if we were having this conversation face to face. So how would you replace basically the CORE of our team that you are letting leave? Yes they COULD sign both Collins and MJ, but the value they will get in FA is INFLATED well above their actual value. Same thing happens every year. Yes, they are both good players, but like so many have tried to explain, you don't pay more than something is worth just to have it. That's not good business. Just because Tampa is willing to overpay to get players to come to a loosing team doesn't mean we should overpay to keep them. If you want to overpay and fuck yourself later like the Steelers and Cowboys, be my guest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 So how would you replace basically the CORE of our team that you are letting leave? Yes they COULD sign both Collins and MJ, but the value they will get in FA is INFLATED well above their actual value. Same thing happens every year. Yes, they are both good players, but like so many have tried to explain, you don't pay more than something is worth just to have it. That's not good business. Just because Tampa is willing to overpay to get players to come to a loosing team doesn't mean we should overpay to keep them. If you want to overpay and fuck yourself later like the Steelers and Cowboys, be my guest... You pay something above your perceived actual value so that you don't have gaping holes at LT and DE two of the most important positions on the field and so you can continue to improve instead of taking steps backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkesn Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 You pay something above your perceived actual value so that you don't have gaping holes at LT and DE two of the most important positions on the field and so you can continue to improve instead of taking steps backwards. Sorry, but overpaying for good, not great players is several steps back...not forward. They will draft replacements, pick up reasonable free agents, and we'll be all the better for it. Plus Collins doesn't even fit the mold of what Hue wants to do in this offense anyway. Overpaying for a poor scheme fit is even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Sorry, but overpaying for good, not great players is several steps back...not forward. They will draft replacements, pick up reasonable free agents, and we'll be all the better for it. Plus Collins doesn't even fit the mold of what Hue wants to do in this offense anyway. Overpaying for a poor scheme fit is even worse. Did he say "Gaping Holes"? That's some serious Hyperbole there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Sorry, but overpaying for good, not great players is several steps back...not forward. They will draft replacements, pick up reasonable free agents, and we'll be all the better for it. Plus Collins doesn't even fit the mold of what Hue wants to do in this offense anyway. Overpaying for a poor scheme fit is even worse. Sorry but you don't find replacements for what is essentially your starting LT and an elite level DE just by picking up reasonable free agents. There is a reason they are being sought after so highly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkesn Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Did he say "Gaping Holes"? That's some serious Hyperbole there. Yeah...I ignored that because I didn't want to be an ass and attack such a stupid comment. Now resigning MJ and Collins and subsequently not being able to sign AJ and Burfict, THOSE are gaping holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Yeah...I ignored that because I didn't want to be an ass and attack such a stupid comment. Now resigning MJ and Collins and subsequently not being able to sign AJ and Burfict, THOSE are gaping holes. So You want Boling and Magnus Hunt starting? You are willing to take that risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkesn Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Sorry but you don't find replacements for what is essentially your starting LT and an elite level DE just by picking up reasonable free agents. There is a reason they are being sought after so highly. Actually, you do. A rotation of Hunt, Gillbery, and a draft pick could very easily fill MJ's loss. And draft a OT or OG early can also fill Collin's role, like drafting Zach Martin. Your idea that they are irreplaceable is pretty silly man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkesn Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 So You want Boling and Magnus Hunt starting? You are willing to take that risk? I didn't say what we had was good enough. Look at how many impact players are being released right now. You will likely find VERY good players at a reasonable price in a week or two once things calm down. It's what smart teams do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Actually, you do. A rotation of Hunt, Gillbery, and a draft pick could very easily fill MJ's loss. And draft a OT or OG early can also fill Collin's role, like drafting Zach Martin. Your idea that they are irreplaceable is pretty silly man... What happens if Zach Martin isn't there? Hunt who has played 164 snaps is going to replace Michael Johnson? Why exactly do you think these teams are willing to play Johnson if DE's are so easy to find? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I didn't say what we had was good enough. Look at how many impact players are being released right now. You will likely find VERY good players at a reasonable price in a week or two once things calm down. It's what smart teams do. Smart teams don't let players in their prime walk. Then after that they do what you are describing. Impact players are being released because new coaches came in and they didn't fit the system or the player isn't playing up to the contract they were given. MJ is just starting to show what he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkesn Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Smart teams don't let players in their prime walk. Then after that they do what you are describing. Impact players are being released because new coaches came in and they didn't fit the system or the player isn't playing up to the contract they were given. MJ is just starting to show what he can do. Sorry, but your logic is pretty lacking MW. I'm done trying to explain simple buisness logic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Sorry, but your logic is pretty lacking MW. I'm done trying to explain simple buisness logic... You literally can't even spell business The cap is skyrocketing. What you pay now may be higher than you would like, but if you need it sometimes you have to pay it. You pay for Collins and MJ now and you have solidified 2 positions for 2-3 years. You can draft BPA after you get your CB in someway. Putting yourself in a position to pivot based on the draft, based on cheap deals in free agency and based on injuries is the best football and business decision. Retaining Collins and MJ puts you exactly in that position. There seem to be three ways to pay for a team in this era. 1. Borrow from tomorrow and overload your team today and pay for it later. 2. Pay for it now and balanced throughout contracts. 3. Overload today so that there is money for tomorrow. If we would simply switch our mentality to the middle one than both could be re-signed for market value. It may have taken a franchise tag to get it done and that may have upped his price a bit but it still could have gotten done. It was a mis-play. You don't get to pick who your blue chip players will be. The idea that you balance your roster based on salary is ideal, but isn't really how things work out. When you get a stud you pay the stud and move forward. You can't just so, oh we will just replace a freak DE by a DE by committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkesn Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Actually both Alleycat and I have laid it out pretty clearly, but common sense doesn't get far on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Actually both Alleycat and I have laid it out pretty clearly, but common sense doesn't get far on this board. If you want to tag up with that guy by all means do it. Good luck. Cool internet meme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 How do know that? What number will it take to extend Burfict, keep in mind he's making $500k this year so if you offered him what Geathers was making, 500% raise I think he would take it. If they extend Burfict at 4-5 million per year for 5 years they could still resign Collins, MJ, and extend AJ. My point is the Bengals could do it if they wanted to, if they were truly committed to winning and fielding the best team possible. http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/projected-2014-nfl-team-cap-space-420/ Sure, if Burfict is an idiot and so is his agent. Burfict has played like an all pro LB since he came into the league. You aren't going to be able to low-ball him on a long term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsCat Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Also just to point out its been stated the bengals are keeping 15 mil for injury and draft picks not 10 that ppl keep using to hypothetically do the cap numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengals7833 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Sorry but you don't find replacements for what is essentially your starting LT and an elite level DE just by picking up reasonable free agents. There is a reason they are being sought after so highly. I find this comical. I like mj he is a good player but really elite. He had 3 1/2 sacks and batted down 7 passes. Lol. If he is elite how would you classify geno, jj watt, Cameron wake Etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengals7833 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 [quote name="MichaelWeston" post="1337151" timestamp="1394510926"] Smart teams don't let players in their prime walk. Then after that they do what you are describing. Impact players are being released because new coaches came in and they didn't fit the system or the player isn't playing up to the contract they were given. MJ is just starting to show what he can do.[/quote Well sometimes when smart teams draft really well they don't have a choice. The current roster is loaded and you can't keep everyone. These two are the most replaceable of the upcoming good free agents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigfox09 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 [quote name="MichaelWeston" post="1337151" timestamp="1394510926"] Smart teams don't let players in their prime walk. Then after that they do what you are describing. Impact players are being released because new coaches came in and they didn't fit the system or the player isn't playing up to the contract they were given. MJ is just starting to show what he can do.[/quote Well sometimes when smart teams draft really well they don't have a choice. The current roster is loaded and you can't keep everyone. These two are the most replaceable of the upcoming good free agents Agreed. I think we can absorb the loss of MJ without a considerable drop off in production from the position. I am actually a little surprised to hear they are even making an effort to resign him. You dont use a 2nd pick on a guy that you dont plan on playing. I am more concerned about the potential loss of Collins. However, Whit is still a great LT and a LG is easier to come by via FA or draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Agreed. I think we can absorb the loss of MJ without a considerable drop off in production from the position. I am actually a little surprised to hear they are even making an effort to resign him. You dont use a 2nd pick on a guy that you dont plan on playing. I am more concerned about the potential loss of Collins. However, Whit is still a great LT and a LG is easier to come by via FA or draft. I agree with this, however MJ is a stud. I think that people may not realize it because he is our stud but most teams don't have guys of his ability. I hope that Margus can fill in well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 have not seen it posted yet but Redskins are interested in Andrew Hawkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I agree with this, however MJ is a stud. I think that people may not realize it because he is our stud but most teams don't have guys of his ability. I hope that Margus can fill in well. Geno is the stud of the dline. He is the one that allowed mj to have 12 sacks last year. I like mj don't get me wrong. But I do think you are over valuing him a tad. I don't think he is elite. His numbers fell way off after geno got hurt. Out of curiosity does anyone know his sacks per game and pressures per game after geno got hurt compared to 2012 and the first half of the year before geno got hurt? If I recall, both numbers went down a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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