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Boycott Both Bengals vs. Browns Games


Rick

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2 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

It's all good... and I support civil disobedience as long as there is no violence or destruction. There are always exceptions, but as an overall... that's where I'm at.

 

That is normally where I'm at with it myself, but in this case we're talking about domestic terror groups that operate on fear and intimidation.  It's well beyond a simple disagreement over politics. You can see how those fucks were armed & if some young people in handkerchiefs are willing to go throw rocks at them I'm certainly not going to condemn them for it.   

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That's where we disagree then... the Nazi fucks want chaos and an excuse to use violence. Unfortunately they get the "right" to vomit their hatred, and nothing can be done about that evidently. I've watched these fucks for over 4 decades, and the best tactic I've seen to shut them down is to ignore their dumb asses completely. Seriously... no one show up and give them any attention, fucks them all up.

 

Throwing rocks, piss, shit, aerosol torches and shit at them makes them brave enough to use violence.... and who wins?

 

Nobody...

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45 minutes ago, USN Bengal said:

That's where we disagree then... the Nazi fucks want chaos and an excuse to use violence. Unfortunately they get the "right" to vomit their hatred, and nothing can be done about that evidently. I've watched these fucks for over 4 decades, and the best tactic I've seen to shut them down is to ignore their dumb asses completely. Seriously... no one show up and give them any attention, fucks them all up.

 

Throwing rocks, piss, shit, aerosol torches and shit at them makes them brave enough to use violence.... and who wins?

 

Nobody...

 

IMO we've tried ignoring them and all they did was fester & grow.  It's not like they've been peaceful otherwise.  I'm all for a nonviolent solution but I don't see ignoring them getting the job done.

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I'm a lifelong lefty. Started out as radical, went more or less mainstream for my middle years, and now find myself moving back towards a serious radicalism. I've hung out or interacted with most flavors at one time or another. So, some observations:

 

--sectarian leftists are just as capable of heinous bullshit as any other fringe ideology. And believe me, when the worst of these groups contend with each other, the hatred is real. In fact, it was the explicit hatred of some of these groups that made me walk away.

--Anyone remember the Weathermen? Bader-Meinhoff?

--these anarchist black-hatters are really bad juju.

--Remember that anarchists were the terrorists on the late 19th century.

 

So, I'm more or less with USN on this as a matter of practice. The tactical approach to these folks--left and right-- is to grant them their rights under the rubric of law (which I do not think is a bad thing, imo.) But ignore them. Better yet, ostracize them. If and when they break the law, prosecute them. Not with malice nor under any kind of politically correct term as "hate crime" or "terrorist" but as extremely misguided citizens who have made themselves out-laws.

 

But, it's time folks wake up to the reasons why we live in such volatile times. 40+ years of radical market ideology has destroyed the economy--made it topsy-turvy--where the impetus to rage becomes desensitized and more palatable to an increasingly larger portion of the population which has become desperate. But that's another conversation.

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1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

IMO we've tried ignoring them and all they did was fester & grow.  It's not like they've been peaceful otherwise.  I'm all for a nonviolent solution but I don't see ignoring them getting the job done.

So do I you propose civil war?

 

You realize that most people are not supporting this shit right? Although the media would have everyone  believe differently.

 

Homer said way more than a mouthful above, and it is germane to this conversation. Big business, who owns big politics, is a master puppeteer.

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1 hour ago, USN Bengal said:

So do I you propose civil war?

 

You realize that most people are not supporting this shit right? Although the media would have everyone  believe differently.

 

I don't think what I propose matters there.  These fringe militias.. We can include the left-wing or whatever other flavor exists (because left-right is inherently flawed as a model, only contributes to that gang/countergang stuff) but these kooks are almost exclusively some brand of white nationalism, in deed if not charter.  They've been working their way to open sedition for quite some time, and we don't have to call it domestic terrorism but IMO it's worse than a street gang.  This is an excellent point:

 

2 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

If and when they break the law, prosecute them. Not with malice nor under any kind of politically correct term as "hate crime" or "terrorist" but as extremely misguided citizens who have made themselves out-laws

 

I don't know if I agree with that entirely but it made me think, as usual, and I appreciate that.  I don't know that it's PC or thought-policing to ban these hate groups when members routinely participate in group-sanctioned violence.  I do think you should be legally free to hate Laplanders or whoever in your shriveled little heart if you want, but once you start recruiting for "Death to Laplander" rallies, conducting a campaign of intimidation against them, you lose that right.  As loaded a term as it is now, terrorism did mean something.  We treat it as a worse crime because it's planned, orchestrated violence and because, you're both right, it's designed to be contagious.  I'm fine with groups like that surrendering their right to peaceful assembly, because that's not meant to be a peaceful assembly.  

 

To this:

 

Quote

Better yet, ostracize them.

 

I will again suggest ridicule.  You can see how effective this is:

 

 

 

and it would've been even better without the lady yelling predictable insults.   You gotta be more creative like "OMG BOBBY I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU SINCE REUBEN'S BAR MITZVAH!! HOW DO YOU GET YOUR HOOD SO WHITE IS THAT CLOROX? " IDK. That sounds like fun.

 

On the other hand, these dudes aren't carrying battle rifles and torches.  It doesn't matter whether you or I condone violence, it's what they're about.  Should we then surrender the streets to them? 

 

Quote

--these anarchist black-hatters are really bad juju. 

 

I agree, but why is the focus on them?  Any conversation about the dozens of white nationalist groups gets shifted to one about antifa.  These fucks ran over an innocent woman & people want to point the finger at "antifa" like that's even a thing. I appreciate you calling that group what it is, black bloc or whatever. Antifascist Action is not the problem. BLM is not the problem. Counter-protesters in general at a Klan rally are not the problem, either.  I admit they aren't a solution, but I maintain that they're better than no resistance at all & trying to change the focus to them is bullshit (not that I think either of you guys were doing so). 

 

Again, open to suggestions that aren't "ignore them."  We've ignored them long enough, and now we've got this mess & they have their man in the White House. I don't want to see what they turn into next.  

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Good stuff there, especially going after the Laplanders... LMAO.

 

 I disagree that Antifa is not part of the problem, although not the way the Nazis are. 

 

The nazis have actually been growing in numbers since 2009, and emboldened by the presidents victory. They need to be dealt with the same as they are approaching MS13 in my opinion. 

 

As far as Antifa, since the election they have been acting like fascists themselves, and they need to be dealt with accordingly. If they aren't part of the solution, then they are part of the problem.

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On 8/26/2017 at 5:41 PM, T-Dub said:

While I understand the military doesn't make these decisions, so no blame there from me.. But is that honestly what you think we were doing invading Iraq? Protecting our freedom? If you want to support the troops how about we start by not putting them in harm's way over some bullshit.

Every bit of this.

 

Supporting the troops isnt some catch phrase you put on a bumper sticker.

You support them by not putting them in harms way unless it is absolutely necessary, and I'm sorry but Iraq was not necessary. 

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19 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

Let's just deal with facts ok?

 

1. Nazi's, White Supremacists, or whatever you want to classify them as are pure filth and should be labeled as a domestic terror group.

2. With the tactics that Antifa and others have been using, so should they.

3. Knowing two police officers who were there, the white trash Nazis were NOT armed , did NOT have caches of arms stashed anywhere, AND did not have the police outgunned. The police WERE instructed to stand back and not get involved unless things "got out of hand". Amazing that no one got shot by the police from the side that is the the most terroristic huh?

Until you realize that they were all white and then it makes sense...

 

4. Our "law of the land" has decided for us that these hate spewing maggots have the right to spread their filth publicly, and approve them to do so. Why? fucking bullshit interpretation of Freedom of Speech. Spewing hate, prejudice, and genocide should NEVER be allowed.

 

I agree with protesting unjust actions, laws, and inequalities... I do NOT agree with the tactics of blocking streets so innocent people cannot get through, ANY violence, ANY destruction of property, and ANY intolerance when the side you identify with is SCREECHING intolerance with their actions.... while complaining that the other side isn't tolerant at all.

 

This country has gone to shit... when you allow the dregs of society to spew their disgusting hate and then pull a man off a telecast because his name is Robert Lee... Rome is burning while everyone treats the current president as Nero.

He's as much responsible for the current state of affairs as is Obama, Bush, Clinton...etc. When people need to come together the most, the MEDIA feeds the hysteria and calls for civil disobedience, whose members take it upon themselves to use violence.

 

Who wins?

 

Nobody...

 

 

Just to be clear here are you talking about Berkeley or Charlottesville? 

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12 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

That's where we disagree then... the Nazi fucks want chaos and an excuse to use violence. Unfortunately they get the "right" to vomit their hatred, and nothing can be done about that evidently. I've watched these fucks for over 4 decades, and the best tactic I've seen to shut them down is to ignore their dumb asses completely. Seriously... no one show up and give them any attention, fucks them all up.

 

Throwing rocks, piss, shit, aerosol torches and shit at them makes them brave enough to use violence.... and who wins?

 

Nobody...

 

The Nazi's were preparing for violence, they were expecting it. One might argue that means that they were inciting and inciting is not protected under the 1st amendment.

http://fortune.com/2017/08/26/charlottesville-violence-leaked-chats/

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10 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

I'm a lifelong lefty. Started out as radical, went more or less mainstream for my middle years, and now find myself moving back towards a serious radicalism. I've hung out or interacted with most flavors at one time or another. So, some observations:

 

--sectarian leftists are just as capable of heinous bullshit as any other fringe ideology. And believe me, when the worst of these groups contend with each other, the hatred is real. In fact, it was the explicit hatred of some of these groups that made me walk away.

--Anyone remember the Weathermen? Bader-Meinhoff?

--these anarchist black-hatters are really bad juju.

--Remember that anarchists were the terrorists on the late 19th century.

 

So, I'm more or less with USN on this as a matter of practice. The tactical approach to these folks--left and right-- is to grant them their rights under the rubric of law (which I do not think is a bad thing, imo.) But ignore them. Better yet, ostracize them. If and when they break the law, prosecute them. Not with malice nor under any kind of politically correct term as "hate crime" or "terrorist" but as extremely misguided citizens who have made themselves out-laws.

 

But, it's time folks wake up to the reasons why we live in such volatile times. 40+ years of radical market ideology has destroyed the economy--made it topsy-turvy--where the impetus to rage becomes desensitized and more palatable to an increasingly larger portion of the population which has become desperate. But that's another conversation.

 

 

Personally I think the way this German town handled their Neo Nazi problem is brilliant.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/neo-nazi-walkathon_us_59952cfbe4b0acc593e51ae5

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1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

 

Typical police officers.  Either lying or too stupid to know what was going on around them.

Fuck you... simple things like common sense is something you may want to look into.

For instance, it may also depend on where the police officers were stationed, what their assignment was, and if the portion of the group they saw was armed or not.

 

Typical police officers... you're a fucking joke, God help you if you ever need  their assistance. 

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2 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

Just to be clear here are you talking about Berkeley or Charlottesville? 

They were in Charlottesville, showed them the pics of people carrying weapons and they were both pissed...said that to them "if you're preaching genocide of races and unadulterated hate, you shouldn't be allowed to own weapons." One of them resigned actually, telling me that "when you're basically ordered to do nothing unless things get out of hand, it's inviting a riot".

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3 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

Fuck you... simple things like common sense is something you may want to look into.

For instance, it may also depend on where the police officers were stationed, what their assignment was, and if the portion of the group they saw was armed or not.

 

 

YOU are the one who actually believed that a bunch of neo-Nazi white supremacists had no weapons and I am the one who lacks common sense.  That's a good one.

:lol:

 

If these two policemen you claimed to know could not see anything then they should never have claimed that no one was armed,  Instead they should have said that they could not tell if they were armed or not.  Defend them all you want, but they were either lying or stupid.

 

3 hours ago, USN Bengal said:
 
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4 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

Fuck you... simple things like common sense is something you may want to look into.

For instance, it may also depend on where the police officers were stationed, what their assignment was, and if the portion of the group they saw was armed or not.

 

Typical police officers... you're a fucking joke, God help you if you ever need  their assistance. 

 

FWIW I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, though I could've made that more clear.  They lost 2 of their own in that helo that went down & they also apprehended the driver that hit those folks.  Could've been so much worse.

 

4 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

They were in Charlottesville, showed them the pics of people carrying weapons and they were both pissed...said that to them "if you're preaching genocide of races and unadulterated hate, you shouldn't be allowed to own weapons." One of them resigned actually, telling me that "when you're basically ordered to do nothing unless things get out of hand, it's inviting a riot".

 

Would love to hear more about this if you don't mind asking him.  Were they surprised by the turnout?  Really interested in what they saw & were told. 

 

They arrested this 18 year old dude in Middletown in connection to another assault that took place in VA.

 

http://www.wlwt.com/article/man-with-local-ties-arrested-in-connection-to-charlottesville-beating/12100986

 

Don't you wonder who he's been hanging around with?

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1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

They arrested this 18 year old dude in Middletown in connection to another assault that took place in VA.

 

http://www.wlwt.com/article/man-with-local-ties-arrested-in-connection-to-charlottesville-beating/12100986

 

 

 

 

Wait he was arrested in Middletown? My sister and her family live there.

(unrelated she was recently interviewed on ViceNews about the middletown drug epidemic, you can probably find it online.)

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Disgusted is what they were really feeling... disgusted by the nazis, the protestors, but especially by the way they were told to hold off.

 

It was evidently put to than in a way that wouldn't get anyone in trouble that they were to stand off until told otherwise.

 

They knew that thousands would bus in  from both sides to make sure there was a confrontation, and they sure as hell weren't wrong. I live 45 minutes from there and SAW a shitload of buses going there. Anyone who wants to say that it's a "conspiracy " that protestors are bussing in is blind and ignorant. Cops get treatment like the shit toast said earlier "typical stupid cops" and other asinine shit like that. Putting your life in the line every day for piece of shit ungrateful fucks gets to even the best of them.

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2 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

YOU are the one who actually believed that a bunch of neo-Nazi white supremacists had no weapons and I am the one who lacks common sense.  That's a good one.

:lol:

 

If these two policemen you claimed to know could not see anything then they should never have claimed that no one was armed,  Instead they should have said that they could not tell if they were armed or not.  Defend them all you want, but they were either lying or stupid.

 

My answer to you is FUCK YOU about anything you narcissistic fuck. 

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12 minutes ago, USN Bengal said:

 Cops get treatment like the shit toast said earlier "typical stupid cops" and other asinine shit like that. Putting your life in the line every day for piece of shit ungrateful fucks gets to even the best of them.

So that is why they decided to lie and claim that they knew the Nazis were not armed?

 

Doesn't make any sense to me.  Just because they are pissed off about having to do their jobs that is no reason to lie.

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4 hours ago, USN Bengal said:

Disgusted is what they were really feeling... disgusted by the nazis, the protestors, but especially by the way they were told to hold off.

 

It was evidently put to than in a way that wouldn't get anyone in trouble that they were to stand off until told otherwise.

 

They knew that thousands would bus in  from both sides to make sure there was a confrontation, and they sure as hell weren't wrong. I live 45 minutes from there and SAW a shitload of buses going there. Anyone who wants to say that it's a "conspiracy " that protestors are bussing in is blind and ignorant. 

 

I'm sure they are; people take buses to get places.  This thing was apparently promoted online for a long time beforehand & both the shitheads and counter-shitheads had plenty of time to organize.  So various people got together and traveled to it on buses? IDK that anyone is questioning that. What I take issue with myself is the whole George Soros narrative where the alt-reich is a blue-collar, spontaneous grass roots movement but all the people protesting them are jobless hippies in the employ of Soros. That's dangerous shit, it's a rumor meant to remove any agency or autonomy from the counter-protestors so there's less sympathy when, say, some shithead runs over a few. Again, there's a concerted effort by the white nationalists to shift the focus away from themselves and it's bullshit.  Soros doesn't have to pay people to protest a white power rally, that actually genuinely pisses people off all on their own.

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I agree that none were needed to be bussed in for that rally, however there is some seriously damning evidence that Soros IS doing just that... with BOTH sides. It wouldn't surprise me at all either, because big business runs everything and has for some time.

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Now I am getting lost.

 

How is anyone making money off these protests?

 

And if they are not making money then what is wrong with rich people donating their money to oppose Nazi's?  Shouldn't we be thanking the ones who are doing that instead of bitching them out?

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