Tough Training Camp = More Injuries??

[DanvilleBengal]

To address the injury problem, have you noticed that since Marvin is here, we had has some of the toughest training camps in the NFL?? I have heard so many of the players complain about it, and often dismissed it as just bitching about two a days in 110 degree heat.

I have noticed that it seems like every year that we have an injury bug on one side or another. This year, LBs, offensive line, WRs.

Last year, we werent hurt all that much, except at S, and KK filled in admirably.

The previous year, we had a injury bug that failed the LBs again.


Other than a freak accident to Pollack on a sound tackle, it seems to me that the injuries that are suffered are often to our linebacking corps, and theyare fo teh nature that they are possibly overworked. That could be the case for a lot of the injuries that are being suffered around here.

Marvin has always said that his Bengals were going to always outwork the other team.

I want some opinions. Do you think that the entire mantra of "outwork the enemy" is to blame for a bunch of the injuries on our team, or is it something else?

[Guest ravonaf]

[quote name='DanvilleBengal' post='387670' date='Nov 16 2006, 01:20 PM']Other than a freak accident to Pollack on a sound tackle,[/quote]


There is nothing sound about leading with your head on a tackle. It's dangerous to both players and its illegal.

[Jeb]

[quote name='ravonaf' post='387673' date='Nov 16 2006, 12:24 PM']There is nothing sound about leading with your head on a tackle. It's dangerous to both players and it illegal.[/quote]

Agreed. That was very, very, very bad technique!

[Guest Bengals1181]

umm didn't we break camp early this year?

[Khatmandude]

Brian Simmons just woke up with a bad neck one day. I don't think his neck was overworked in TC.

[BengalBeotch]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didnt Marvin have a short training camp in 04 and we had injuries
then last years training camp was longer and it seemed like we didn't have as many because
they were talking about conditioning longer to outlast other teams...he broke camp early this
year and we have a ton of injuries...is that right?

[CatScratchFever]

[quote name='BengalBeotch' post='387685' date='Nov 16 2006, 12:58 PM']Correct me if I'm wrong but didnt Marvin have a short training camp in 04 and we had injuries
then last years training camp was longer and it seemed like we didn't have as many because
they were talking about conditioning longer to outlast other teams...he broke camp early this
year and we have a ton of injuries...is that right?[/quote]
That's exactly what I said a month ago...

[url="http://forum.go-bengals.com/index.php?showtopic=23984&hl="]http://forum.go-bengals.com/index.php?show...c=23984&hl=[/url]

[Guest BengalsOwn]

Toughest training camp in the NFL? Where'd you get that from?

Besides, TC has been shortened, so that players aren't as tired, and so they can get off to a faster start. See 2005.

[Guest bengalrick]

did we lose anyone at all in training camp this year?

the biggest lose as far as injuries this year, was clearly the browns game...

[Nati Ice]

i still dont understand this

why did he shorten it and supposedly make it tougher?

we have the athletes, they just dont know the playbook. so why not keep it consistent and just drag it out as long as possible?

[StringCheese]

The tough training camps would only provide the players with more muscles which would in turn reduce the amount of injuries. Somebody on the training staff isn't doing there job correctly. They need to focus more on the smaller ligaments in the knees and shoulders and not so much on the larger muscles. The stronger the smaller muscles are the less likely you are to blow out a knee or shoulder.

[Nati Ice]

you dont get stronger from training camp, camp breaks you down



miscular strength is not the problem

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

People get hurt in football it happens. Some of it is luck, some of it preparation.

Unfortunatley we have had some bad luck and just got some bad injuries.

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='387797' date='Nov 16 2006, 04:00 PM']you dont get stronger from training camp, camp breaks you down
miscular strength is not the problem[/quote]

muscles are always built up after they are broke down

thats what you do when you lift weights... i get what your saying, but training camp is used to build up your body in football shape (much different than any other shape you can be in), to build up stamina (another way to help avoid injuries) and to build muscle strength... as long as noone gets literally hurt during training camp, the tougher the camp, the better off the team imo... as long as they have a rest before the season starts to get back their full stamina...

[TheChosenOne]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='387761' date='Nov 16 2006, 03:13 PM']the biggest lose as far as injuries this year, was clearly the browns game...[/quote]

Agreed, that game was an absolute killer.

[JungleCat]

[quote name='TheChosenOne' post='387894' date='Nov 16 2006, 06:06 PM']Agreed, that game was an absolute killer.[/quote]
A week from Sunday is payback time for all the injuries they gave us. Take out the Solja and Frye. It makes you wonder what our season would be like had we not had all the injuries in that game such as Rich Braham, Dexter, Pollack, Tab and I'm sure probably another that I'm missing.

[bungs]

Marvin shortened training camp and made it less strenuous after the slow starts in 2003 and 2004. He believed the team was too tired in the first couple weeks of the season. I don't think it is so tough anymore, so this is probably not the cause of injuries.

[Utts]

Funny, a few years ago the losing was blamed on poor conditioning, now too much. Welcome to football message boards on the Internet.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='ravonaf' post='387673' date='Nov 16 2006, 12:24 PM']There is nothing sound about leading with your head on a tackle. It's dangerous to both players and its illegal.[/quote]


i guess you dive legs first and try to leg tackle players? he dove for the guy, his facemask was up, just hit him perfect enough to injure himself, there was nothing illegal about the hit or odd about the tackle. what kind of bullshit response is this? did you never ever see the play? or just have no idea what your talking about?


i mean seriously, what the fuck kind of response is this? illegal? give me a mother fucking break.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Utts' post='387923' date='Nov 16 2006, 07:18 PM']Funny, a few years ago the losing was blamed on poor conditioning, now too much. Welcome to football message boards on the Internet.[/quote]

yea the camps were toned down this year cut nearly a week short, no way it played a factor, i think poor copnditioning may be the right answer still, whether its coaching or time spent, there is something going on for sure...

and wtf is up with the apendiz fairy this year?

[|Elflocko|]

Jimmy Johnson put on some of the toughest camps in modern NFL history, and managed to win 2 (and would have been more had Jerry Jones not been a megalomaniac) Super Bowls.

I fail to see the logic of your argument.

We just caught the wrong end of the injury stick this year.

And it sucks giant donkey cock...

[CatScratchFever]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='387990' date='Nov 17 2006, 12:27 AM']yea the camps were toned down this year cut nearly a week short, no way it played a factor, i think poor copnditioning may be the right answer still, whether its coaching or time spent, there is something going on for sure...

and wtf is up with the apendiz fairy this year?[/quote]
But wouldn't a longer, more complete camp result in better conditioning? Like it did last year?

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='387841' date='Nov 16 2006, 04:40 PM']muscles are always built up after they are broke down

thats what you do when you lift weights... i get what your saying, but training camp is used to build up your body in football shape (much different than any other shape you can be in), to build up stamina (another way to help avoid injuries) and to build muscle strength... as long as noone gets literally hurt during training camp, the tougher the camp, the better off the team imo... as long as they have a rest before the season starts to get back their full stamina...[/quote]
thanks for the update, ill try to remember that the next time i go lift.

training camp is designed for getting back a feel for the game that is lost on players in the offseason, (re)learning the playbook, and an anaerobic buildup in fitness that can only be achieved by team practice. sure, its analogous to lifting weights, but its still much different. you are talking about professional athletes who have spent their whole lives and millions of dollars preparing themselves in order to be strong enough for gameday. that strength doesnt quickly dissipate, but getting in football shape is another story. taking hits, getting in a rhythm, and getting back that level of game fitness are the main physical purposes of camp. however, getting hit too much and being put through too many physically pounding exercises on old bodies without the emphasis on the playbook and proper recovery has apparently hurt us… or at least thats the suggestion being madeby this thread

this isnt the 1950's, and we cannot afford to just go out in every training camp and beat the absolute shit out of our players. the drop off in quality between our starters and backups just isnt there, yet. there is no reason to do any unnecessary training in the buildup to the season, it serves no purpose to current athletes and may have lead to the initial breakdown which may have possibly lead to a jump start in our injuries this year... or at least thats what im assuming the op suggested.

anyone that has ever played a sport at a higher level should be able to tell you that preseason camps arent for building up strength (and no, high school is not relevant as you are dealing with lazy kids), they are for getting back into playing shape and getting a jump start on the seasons expectations.

i really dont know what else to say outside of making a further emphasis on the fact that i cannot find any advantages being made from unnecessary preseason training.

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='CatScratchFever' post='388010' date='Nov 17 2006, 06:47 AM']But wouldn't a longer, more complete camp result in better conditioning? Like it did last year?[/quote]if were expecting to build up the amount of conditioning needed to play at a professional level in one week of preseason football, then we obviously have bigger issues than those being suggested.

[Guest ravonaf]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='387989' date='Nov 17 2006, 01:26 AM']i guess you dive legs first and try to leg tackle players? he dove for the guy, his facemask was up, just hit him perfect enough to injure himself, there was nothing illegal about the hit or odd about the tackle. what kind of bullshit response is this? did you never ever see the play? or just have no idea what your talking about?
i mean seriously, what the fuck kind of response is this? illegal? give me a mother fucking break.[/quote]

Yeah. I did see the play. He lead with his helmet. Try watching it again. And the last time I checked leading with your helmet was supposed to draw a flag. It was piss poor technique on his part that probably cost him his career. I still have the game on TIVO so I'll take a screen shot if you want. Pollock has no one to blame but himself.