So You want Chucky Fired?

[MrOrange1219]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='576025' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:06 PM']without wasting too much time arguing with someone who is not interested in facts...

chucky indeed had a top 16 D with Oakland's superbowl team in 02. [/quote]
My fault, I didn't have the "with Cincinnati" part on this question like I did for the 3 other times I've asked it.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='MrOrange1219' post='576023' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:06 PM']Yeah, I understand your excuse very well. Injuries.
The Ohio River should be filled with the tears of those who feel sorry for the Bengals because they are always the team that gets hit the hardest with injuries...

Even healthy, the defense wasn't that good. Maybe, just maybe, a big part of that is the defensive playcalling and preperation. Who is in chanrge of all that?

Bresnahan.[/quote]


you call it excuses, I call it facts. You can't be a great defense when your defensive coordinator has nothing to work with.



I"m not saying some of the blame isn't on Bresh to be more creative with what we have or to throw in more wrinkles. However, the naive fans that want to crucify him for failing to make ice cream out of spoiled milk is laugable at best.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='MrOrange1219' post='576014' date='Oct 22 2007, 01:58 PM']WHAT DO 2007 INJURIES HAVE TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT BRESNAHAN HASN"T PRODUCED A TOP 16 DEFENSE IN HIS COACHING CAREER?!?[/quote]


God I hate defending him, but thats not completely true.


In '02 in Oakland he had the #11 Total D.

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2002&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1"]<a href="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1" target="_blank">http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1[/url]</a>

A pretty bad against the Pass D @ #23 (odd that we have some similar issues here [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img])

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2002&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1"]<a href="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1" target="_blank">http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1[/url]</a>

and #3 Against the Run

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2002&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1"]<a href="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1" target="_blank">http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1[/url]</a>


ANd they were the #3 scoring D.

[url="http://www.bengals.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=16"]<a href="http://www.bengals.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=16" target="_blank">http://www.bengals.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=16[/url]</a>



He hasnt had the talent he had in Oak either. All Im saying is that some of this is indeed his fault, and some is not.


[quote name='MrOrange1219' post='576021' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:03 PM']I'm not saying it's 100% his fault either. Nothing is 100% of one person.

I'm saying that Bres is a major part of the inept defense that Cincinanti has. You can argue about injuries and other excuses all day, but as ONYX said, they weren't that good before the injuries. Maybe the healthy LBers improve the defense, but it'll move them from 30th in ppg to maybe 25th. Still not good enough. Not even close.

A chance needs to be made, and it won't be Marvin. Bresnahan is the guy that has to go.[/quote]


I woulndt hate it if he left, but its not just him is all Im saying.

[ccartman2]

Well since most of you seem to defend Chuck, please explain the logic behind the Scheme of the Jets first TD? Now if there was a mistake by a player, I can understand that, but it looked like everyone did what they were suppose to do. Here is how it was drawn up:

Joeseph was lined up on the right side of the D. His guy came across the middle to be picked up by the safety. The other safety was no where to be found so i assume he was on a blitz. Coles goes deep on Oneal and Joseph was trying to get back for inside help. Now to me that seemed like a terrible scheme to draw one of your corners all the way across the field to give inside help, when you have a safety back there. Now I get that it was easier for the safety to cover the middle of the field, but really, if we had dropped a LB back here and the safety could have helped with Coles preventing the 57 YD. TD>

[MrOrange1219]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='576027' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:09 PM']how is he supposed to do that with the most important position on the field continuously being removed? its like saying the passing game is limp without carson on the field. DUH.. linebacker are required to stop the run and cover the short pass, not noyl defense but the special teams lost 4 starters due to injuries as well. kicker isnt supposed to tackle of you have 6 of 10 guys who should even be in the nfl, let alone playing ST's and let alone STARTING on defense. the JETS cut dhani jones... the team kenny watson just ran 130 yards and 3 TD's on CUT dhani jones... and he started more than half our games this season..

what the FUCK is chuck supposed to do?

what fucking defense scheme makes dhani jones and shlegal not fucknig suck? i must meet the guy who devises schemes to makes really shitty out of work players play at starting NFL caliber level be defensive scheme.... that man must ahve won every superbowl EVER....

its impossible. we are lucky to be 2-4, we should be 1-5

brooks is a game changer because of his abilities, not his experiene and history, but ability, he has to be factored, by a extra blocker and a linemen, which leaves an extra guy in the back field that doesnt need covere by secondary or other LB, it leaves a linemen not just concentrating on the 4 DL infront of them,


chuck made garbage play like average crap. jeanty saw his first game of the year, landon has left at least one game hurt. we were at one point down to 2 active LB's. we carry 6.

LB is by far the most important position on defense, no DB can covere forever, so if there isnt pressure from the LB's he gets all day, and the front four cant get pressure if the LB arent a threat cause you have 5-7 Offensive palyers blocking, 5 down and a te or RB maybe both, to block 4 DL. no DL is gonna beat that with NO LB threat.

its common sense.

thats like saying bratkowski made a shitty play call when he called for kitna to left hand shovel pass it to takeo spikes in that bills game... what a shitty call, why would you call for the QB to throw a left handed shovel pass INT.

the exact same logic is being used against chuck.[/quote]
Back to the injuries, I see...

Even when healthy, the defense is not good.
Not good at all.

And they suck even more because of the injuries.

[MrOrange1219]

[quote name='ccartman2' post='576031' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:12 PM']Well since most of you seem to defend Chuck, please explain the logic behind the Scheme of the Jets first TD? Now if there was a mistake by a player, I can understand that, but it looked like everyone did what they were suppose to do. Here is how it was drawn up:

Joeseph was lined up on the right side of the D. His guy came across the middle to be picked up by the safety. The other safety was no where to be found so i assume he was on a blitz. Coles goes deep on Oneal and Joseph was trying to get back for inside help. Now to me that seemed like a terrible scheme to draw one of your corners all the way across the field to give inside help, when you have a safety back there. Now I get that it was easier for the safety to cover the middle of the field, but really, if we had dropped a LB back here and the safety could have helped with Coles preventing the 57 YD. TD>[/quote]
I'm sure it'll have something to do with LBer injuries...

[-GoBengals-]

[s]POLLACk
THURMAN
BROOKS
JEANTY[/s]
L. JOHNSON
[s]HENDERSON
CALIB MILLER
LAMAR MARSHALL[/s]
DHANI JONES
ANTHONY SHLEGEL


starters gone are crossed out.

[s]POLLACk
THURMAN
BROOKS
JEANTY[/s]
[s]L. JOHNSON[/s]
[s]HENDERSON
CALIB MILLER
LAMAR MARSHALL[/s]
DHANI JONES
ANTHONY SHLEGEL


thats the list that hasnt been injured at all and missed no time this year...

two guys who werent on the team opening day...


to me its impossible to remotely pretend this not only plays a part, a huge part, but could be solely responsible for the demise of the defense this year..

not to mention jojo was gone a game, hall is a rookie, oneal comeing back from injury, dexter has been hurt off and on last and this year.

justin smith hurt his hand he was nursing it still playing after the backfield tackle.

its a MASH unit out there. its amazing chuck hasnt taking up drinking or black tar heroine with this unit.


its like saying "hey, here are the backups from the 2002 UC bearcats baseball roster, i need a top 15 defense please"

absolutely impossible.

[|Bengal Migration|]

Here's the irony, for those that have not spotted it...

Bres was brought in to replace Frazier, b/c Marvin prefers playing more of a bend, don't break, type of system, which prevents explosive plays, while maximizing opportunities for the D to create turnovers.

While Bres has been here, the team has drafted a ton of talent on D. Some have not totally played to potential, others find themselves suspended, and the vast majority of the top pics have been out injured this year. The lack of D makes playing bend, don't break next to impossible. That type of scheme requires more talent, imo, to be successful. And our most talented players have not been available for one reason or another.

So where are we finding success now? By blitzing like crazy whenever we can, and playing a scheme closer to what Frazier had here originally. Go figure.

My criticism of Bres begins and ends with the poor tackling. I don't know that it's his job, or his assistants to be teaching this most obvious skill, but he either needs to teach it himself, or get Marvin to fire the guys who are failing to do so. The poor tackling is unacceptable.

As far as scheme goes, I would feel a lot more able to beat my chest one way or the other about Bres' ability if he actually could field the team we have drafted, and/or taken to camp the last few years. Anyone who doesn't think this D would be more successful with Odell, Pollack, Brooks, Weathersby, Kilmer, Jeanty, Miller, Rucker, Fanene, etc on the field is crazy, stupid, or a liar.

[quote name='MrOrange1219' post='576028' date='Oct 22 2007, 07:09 PM']My fault, I didn't have the "with Cincinnati" part on this question like I did for the 3 other times I've asked it.[/quote]
Sorry, I was nitpicking anyway. See above post for more meaningful conversation.

[-GoBengals-]

look at those lists, we normally carry 6 LB's..

our top 8 have been injured and missed time. landon played most of the games, left the hawks game and patriots game at moments with injuries.

madieu also got eye poked against the pats, hell hall and oneal are the only ones who havent been injured yet, and oneal has been on the injury report during the week be is playing.

s leon hall is our only 100% healthy defensive player..


a raw rookie.


AWESOME!

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='576039' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:16 PM']Here's the irony, for those that have not spotted it...

Bres was brought in to replace Frazier, b/c Marvin prefers playing more of a bend, don't break, type of system, which prevents explosive plays, while maximizing opportunities for the D to create turnovers.

While Bres has been here, the team has drafted a ton of talent on D. Some have not totally played to potential, others find themselves suspended, and the vast majority of the top pics have been out injured this year. The lack of D makes playing bend, don't break next to impossible. That type of scheme requires more talent, imo, to be successful. And our most talented players have not been available for one reason or another.

So where are we finding success now? By blitzing like crazy whenever we can, and playing a scheme closer to what Frazier had here originally. Go figure.

My criticism of Bres begins and ends with the poor tackling. I don't know that it's his job, or his assistants to be teaching this most obvious skill, but he either needs to teach it himself, or get Marvin to fire the guys who are failing to do so. The poor tackling is unacceptable.

As far as scheme goes, I would feel a lot more able to beat my chest one way or the other about Bres' ability if he actually could field the team we have drafted, and/or taken to camp the last few years. Anyone who doesn't think this D would be more successful with Odell, Pollack, Brooks, Weathersby, Kilmer, Jeanty, Miller, Rucker, Fanene, etc on the field is crazy, stupid, or a liar.


Sorry, I was nitpicking anyway. See above post for more meaningful conversation. [/quote]


i dont remember frazier being known for his blitzing... do i have a bad memory?

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='MrOrange1219' post='576032' date='Oct 22 2007, 07:12 PM']Back to the injuries, I see...

Even when healthy, the defense is not good.
Not good at all.

And they suck even more because of the injuries.[/quote]
The point you are continuing to miss...

YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN THE D HEALTHY. None of us have.

How in the hell can you tell anyone what the D plays like when they are?

[oldschooler]

2000: Bengals allowed 359 points. That averages out to 22.4 allowed a game.
2001: Bengals allowed 309 points. That averages out to 19.3 allowed a game.
2002: Bengals allowed 456 points. That averages out to 28.5 allowed a game.
2003: Bengals allowed 384 points. That averages out to 24 allowed a game.
2004: Bengals allowed 372 points. That averages out to 23 allowed a game.
2005:Bengals allowed 350 points. That averages out to 21.8 allowed a game.
2006:Bengals allowed 331 points. That averages out to 20.7 allowed a game.
2007: Bengals have allowed 187 points (51 in one game). That averages out to 31.2 allowed a game.

Marvin gutted the Defense when he came here. And has been trying to
rebuild it since. And Bresnahan didn`t become the Defensive coordinator
until 2005. So that`s only 2 plus seasons. So I don`t know where the
hell anyone is getting 4.

Keep in mind that there are two Defensive players left from the 2003 roster,
John Thornton and Justin Smith.

I`ll bold the draft picks that are on the 53 man roster now . . .

Our Defensive draft picks from 2003: Dennis Weathersby, Khalid Abdullah,
Langston Moore, Elton Patterson.

Our Defensive draft picks from 2004: Keiwan Ratliff, [b]Madieu Williams[/b], [b]Caleb Miller[/b],
[b]Landon Johnson[/b], Matthias Askew, [b]Robert Geathers[/b], Greg Brooks.

Our Defensive draft picks from 2005: David Pollack, Odell Thurman, [b]Jonathan Fanene[/b]

Our Defensive draft picks from 2006: [b]Johnathan Joseph[/b], [b]Frostee Rucker[/b], [b]Domata Peko[/b],
[b]Ethan Kilmer[/b].

Our Defensive draft picks from 2007: [b]Leon Hall[/b], [b]Ahmad Brooks[/b] [b]Marvin White[/b], Matt Toeaina,
[b]Chinedum Ndukwe[/b].

Highest Defnsive pick in 2003 was Weathersby. A couple of freak accidents ended his career.
Highest pick in 2004 was Ratliff. He never became the ballhawk he was touted to be.
There were a couple of solid players drafted that year though. Highest draft pick in
2005 was Pollack. Freak injury to his neck put him out for almost 2 seasons.
Odell was a valid Rookie of the Year candidate in 2005. And hasn`t played since.
Jonathan Joseph has been slowed by an injury this season. Rucker hasn`t
even sniffed the field. And Kilmer hasn`t seen the field since training camp.

You can`t expect to have such a high turnover rate of personell, in such a short time,
have some of the highest picks you drafted to help rebuild, get injured/suspended or
be a bust (Ratliff) and not feel it.

I didn`t even mention the injuries to Jeanty and Henderson.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='576043' date='Oct 22 2007, 07:18 PM']i dont remember frazier being known for his blitzing... do i have a bad memory?[/quote]
That's my recollection... that he liked to blitz a lot and take risks that Marvin didn't like.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='ccartman2' post='576031' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:12 PM']Well since most of you seem to defend Chuck, please explain the logic behind the Scheme of the Jets first TD? Now if there was a mistake by a player, I can understand that, but it looked like everyone did what they were suppose to do. Here is how it was drawn up:

Joeseph was lined up on the right side of the D. His guy came across the middle to be picked up by the safety. The other safety was no where to be found so i assume he was on a blitz. Coles goes deep on Oneal and Joseph was trying to get back for inside help. Now to me that seemed like a terrible scheme to draw one of your corners all the way across the field to give inside help, when you have a safety back there. Now I get that it was easier for the safety to cover the middle of the field, but really, if we had dropped a LB back here and the safety could have helped with Coles preventing the 57 YD. TD>[/quote]


it was definately player related, and both Joseph and Deltha got their asses chewed out for it, as reported. Deltha flat out got beat and Joseph was late getting over to help. The scheme was fine, the players didn't execute.



For what its worth, I believe that is the first TD Deltha has given up all year.

[MrOrange1219]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='576042' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:17 PM']look at those lists, we normally carry 6 LB's..

our top 8 have been injured and missed time. landon played most of the games, left the hawks game and patriots game at moments with injuries.

madieu also got eye poked against the pats, hell hall and oneal are the only ones who havent been injured yet, and oneal has been on the injury report during the week be is playing.

s leon hall is our only 100% healthy defensive player..


a raw rookie.


AWESOME![/quote]
Can you try to talk about the defensive coordinator without bringing in the "injuries" excuse?
Again - even when healthy, Bresnahan's defense (in Cincinnati) isn't that good. Never has been.

Why are you ok with a defense that is constantly ranked in the 20's, even when they're healthy?!?

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Preventable injuries hobble Bengals[/b][/size]
[size=3][b]Stretching and hydration can cut player loss[/b][/size]
BY MARK CURNUTTE | MCURNUTTE@ENQUIRER.COM


Pain and injuries are part of football. And many injuries - a helmet to a knee that causes ligament damage or a broken bone - are inevitable over the course of a season or a career.

But some types of injuries - hamstring and groin strains and pulls, for example - can largely be avoided through proper stretching, weight training and diet, especially adequate hydration.

But the Bengals, for all of their self-described efforts, have suffered an inordinately high number of these preventable injuries so far this season. And they've contributed to the poor 1-4 showing heading into the game today against the Jets because key players have not been on the field.


The Bengals have placed eight players on the league's injury report with groin and hamstring injuries since Sept. 7, the Friday before the opener - the most in the NFL. Kansas City and Green Bay each have put six players on the report with groin and hamstring ailments. But most teams, 27 of the 32, have had three or fewer.

On Friday, the Bengals declared three players out of the Jets game - starting middle linebacker Ahmad Brooks (groin strain) and wide receivers Antonio Chatman and Tab Perry (hamstring). Two were listed as doubtful with hamstring problems - starting tailback Rudi Johnson and backup linebacker Corey Mays. Four of the five most serious injuries, per classification, came in areas that can be prevented.

Furthermore, though none of the season-ending injuries are hamstrings or groins, the Bengals placed their ninth and 10th players Tuesday on the injured reserve list - second most in the league to Houston's 11. Of the two Bengals on the practice squad/injured reserve list, one of them, tight end Tim Day, has a hamstring injury.

"We're a skinny football team," Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis said when asked by The Enquirer about the glut of hamstring and groin problems among his players. "A lot of times, when they get taxed, we have a few guys - we have a lot of injured guys - so what happens in games, guys are suited up and they are getting more snaps and they push themselves to keep going."

Hydration is one piece of the solution puzzle. So are increased attention to training the core area of the body and cutting snaps on the practice field to reduce wear and tear on players' bodies.

Lewis defended the organization's strength and conditioning program.

"We spend more time in core training and so forth," said Lewis, the fifth-year head coach who hired Chip Morton as the Bengals' strength and conditioning coach.

Improvement was dramatic in the early years of the Lewis-Morton era. The 2003 Bengals were one of the NFL's best-conditioned teams, after being one of the poorest in the previous years.

Morton initially agreed to be interviewed on the record about the hamstring and groin injuries but then declined, citing team policy that allows only Lewis to discuss player injuries.

But other strength and conditioning experts, and dozens of Bengals fans who post comments on The Enquirer's Bengals blog, have noticed.

One fitness expert who has tracked injuries to Bengals players this season is Rocco Castellano, founder and CEO of askROCCO .com and Rocco's in Over-the-Rhine. He thinks the seeds of injury are sewn before training camp opens in July at Georgetown College near Lexington.

"These football players are making millions of dollars, and it is their job to be in their best physical shape when they come to training camp," said Castellano, who counted 30 players on the Bengals' injury report since Aug. 1. "Instead, what we are seeing is a bunch of athletes who are playing catch-up on their conditioning and, as a result, they are pulling muscles left and right."

Brooks' groin pull, which has forced him to miss four games, including today's game, has been most damaging to the defense. On offense, Johnson is expected to miss his second game in the past three because of a hamstring strain. And Chatman and Perry were expected to fill in for the suspended Chris Henry as the Bengals' third and fourth receivers. Instead, Chatman will miss his second game with a perpetual hamstring problem, and Perry missed two games with a hamstring injury before he surfaced on the injury report with a recurring hip problem that required surgery.

"I drink water. I'm drinking more Gatorade. I can't remember the last time I've touched a soda," said Chatman, limited to six games in two seasons with the Bengals. "I work with (the strength and conditioning coaches) every day. I roll out my hamstring. I've tried everything."

Rookie safety Chinedum Ndukwe, who has played defense and special teams, made the roster with an impressive training camp and preseason. He was the Bengals' second of two seventh-round draft picks.

"Every opportunity I had to get on the field, I was," said Ndukwe, who injured his hamstring during the opener vs. Baltimore and tried to play through it. He missed Games 2 and 3.

Ndukwe credits the team's strength and conditioning coaches for helping him get back on the field quickly.



Bengals hit with most injuries in the NFL
The Bengals have had eight players listed on their official injury report since Sept. 7 with groin and hamstring injuries - widely considered some of the most preventable in football.

Six of the eight have missed at least one game because of the injury, and middle linebacker Ahmad Brooks will miss his fourth consecutive game today because of a groin strain. Wideout Antonio Chatman is out with a hamstring injury, and tailback Rudi Johnson is doubtful because of a hamstring injury.

[size=3][b]The Bengals' eight are the most in the NFL:[/b][/size]

Number of injuries Teams
8 Bengals
6 Chiefs, Packers
5 Redskins, Raiders
3 Colts, Browns, Patriots, Chargers, Bears, Vikings, Falcons, Cardinals, Rams, 49ers
2 Bills, Broncos, Titans, Jaguars, Ravens, Steelers, Seahawks, Eagles
1 Dolphins, Lions, Saints, Buccaneers, Giants
0 Texans, Jets, Cowboys, Panthers



Source: NFL injury reports, SI.com[/quote]




[url="http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071021/SPT02/710210439/1066/rss07"][url="http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...0439/1066/rss07"]http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...0439/1066/rss07[/url][/url]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='576039' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:16 PM']Here's the irony, for those that have not spotted it...

Bres was brought in to replace Frazier, b/c Marvin prefers playing more of a bend, don't break, type of system, which prevents explosive plays, while maximizing opportunities for the D to create turnovers.

While Bres has been here, the team has drafted a ton of talent on D. Some have not totally played to potential, others find themselves suspended, and the vast majority of the top pics have been out injured this year. The lack of D makes playing bend, don't break next to impossible. That type of scheme requires more talent, imo, to be successful. And our most talented players have not been available for one reason or another.

[color="#FF0000"]So where are we finding success now? By blitzing like crazy whenever we can, and playing a scheme closer to what Frazier had here originally. Go figure.[/color]

My criticism of Bres begins and ends with the poor tackling. I don't know that it's his job, or his assistants to be teaching this most obvious skill, but he either needs to teach it himself, or get Marvin to fire the guys who are failing to do so. The poor tackling is unacceptable.

As far as scheme goes, I would feel a lot more able to beat my chest one way or the other about Bres' ability if he actually could field the team we have drafted, and/or taken to camp the last few years. Anyone who doesn't think this D would be more successful with Odell, Pollack, Brooks, Weathersby, Kilmer, Jeanty, Miller, Rucker, Fanene, etc on the field is crazy, stupid, or a liar.


Sorry, I was nitpicking anyway. See above post for more meaningful conversation. [/quote]

There is a bit of irony in that isnt there?

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Run of injuries 'mind-boggling'[/b][/size]
[size=3][b]Huge jump from '06 with 164 NFL players out for the season[/b][/size]
By Dan Pompei | Tribune pro football reporter
12:03 PM CDT, October 20, 2007

The NFL may be straining scoreboards this season with all the points being scored, but the league also is putting a strain on MRI and X-ray machines.

Through Wednesday, NFL teams had placed 164 players on injured reserve. Through the same point last season, 138 players had gone on injured reserve. That means injured-reserve lists had increased more than 18 percent.

The Texans lead the league with 11 players on IR. The Bengals are next with 10.

The Tribune surveyed every NFL team and found that 147 players who began training camp as starters had missed starts in the regular season. That's an average of nearly five injured starters per team — or 22 percent of each team's lineup. Through six weeks, those players had missed a total of 356 starts, an average of 11 per team.

"Injuries seem to increase every year a bit," said former Giants coach Jim Fassel, now a radio commentator for Westwood One.

"Guys are bigger, faster and stronger, and the collisions are harder. The game is harder on the body than it ever has been."

No team has been hit harder than the Rams, who have had nine starters miss a total of 27 starts, both league highs. Among the starters who have been injured are quarterback Marc Bulger, running back Steven Jackson, receiver Isaac Bruce and three offensive linemen, including left tackle Orlando Pace. If you add players who weren't starters in July, 17 Rams have missed a total of 43 games.

"I don't think I've ever been associated with this many," Rams defensive coordinator Jim Haslett told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

"Just the way they happened and the time frame, it's mind-boggling."

The Bears are one of five teams that have had seven starters out. Those players have missed 17 starts. The others: the Bills, Ravens, Bengals and Colts.

Some teams have dealt with injuries better than others. Even though the Colts have had seven players miss 14 starts, they might still be the best team in football. The Cowboys' six injured players have missed 22 starts, but they still have a 5-1 record.

Sometimes the number of injuries isn't as important as which players are hurt. The Bengals have been devastated at linebacker, running back and offensive line.

None of the linebackers they had slated as starters in the off-season are playing. They started their game against the Patriots with four healthy linebackers. Three were not with the team in training camp. They finished the game with two linebackers.

They have been playing without their best three running backs: Rudi Johnson, Kenny Irons and Chris Perry. In five games, they have had four different starting offensive line combinations and have played 10 different combinations during games.[/quote]




[url="http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-071020pompeispotlight,1,6653826.story&quot;"]http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-07...826.story"[/url]

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='576050' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:20 PM']That's my recollection... that he liked to blitz a lot and take risks that Marvin didn't like. [/quote]


I remember that as well.


And good point bringing up the tackling. I'm sure MrOrange will somehow find a way to blame that on Bresh as well.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='576050' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:20 PM']That's my recollection... that he liked to blitz a lot and take risks that Marvin didn't like. [/quote]

could be, its all foggy,

[quote name='MrOrange1219' post='576052' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:22 PM']Can you try to talk about the defensive coordinator without bringing in the "injuries" excuse?
Again - even when healthy, Bresnahan's defense (in Cincinnati) isn't that good. Never has been.

Why are you ok with a defense that is constantly ranked in the 20's, even when they're healthy?!?[/quote]


what imaginary season did you watch that the defense wasnt injured?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='MrOrange1219' post='576052' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:22 PM']Can you try to talk about the defensive coordinator without bringing in the "injuries" excuse?
Again - even when healthy, Bresnahan's defense (in Cincinnati) isn't that good. Never has been.

Why are you ok with a defense that is constantly ranked in the 20's, even when they're healthy?!?[/quote]


wait, wait, when have we been healthy? Answer that.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='576043' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:18 PM']i dont remember frazier being known for his blitzing... do i have a bad memory?[/quote]


[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='576050' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:20 PM']That's my recollection... that he liked to blitz a lot and take risks that Marvin didn't like. [/quote]


Yeah he came from the Eagles, who are a blitzing D.

[MrOrange1219]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='576057' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:24 PM']I remember that as well.


And good point bringing up the tackling. I'm sure MrOrange will somehow find a way to blame that on Bresh as well.[/quote]
Actually, I mentioned the 8 yard buffer zone and horrible tackling as reasons why this defense gets picked apart. Those have nothing to do with injuries.

I'm tired of excuses - I want the defense to be in the top half of the league. It's not that outlandish to expect, but we have yet to see any improvement.

Yeah, it's the "injuries" that everyone in the league gets.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='576057' date='Oct 22 2007, 07:24 PM']I remember that as well.


And good point bringing up the tackling. [b]I'm sure MrOrange will somehow find a way to blame that on Bresh as well.[/b][/quote]
He should. If it's not Bres' job directly to teach tackling, it damn well should be his job to find someone who can.

I'm no "fan" of Bres. I'm just trying to stay realistic about what I can blame him for, and what I can't.

[MrOrange1219]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='576058' date='Oct 22 2007, 02:24 PM']what imaginary season did you watch that the defense wasnt injured?[/quote]
Someone is always injured, but the defense has been much healthier than this before...

...and still sucked ass.