American students kicked off campus for wearing American flag shirts

[big_dish]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='07 May 2010 - 12:42 PM' timestamp='1273250568' post='886838']
And there it is...
[/quote]
And there is no reponse.

What are you proud of about our country? Why do you live here? Its a serious question. You just sticking around to "change" the current American Way?

[Jamie_B]

And by the way anyone who doesnt want to see improvement in their country doesnt love their country and should just go ahead and move?? We arent supposed to strive for a "more perfect union" we're just supposed to accept it flaws and all?

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Thomas Jefferson


Maybe he should move too.

[BengalRep85-9]

Agree with dish fully here. This is America, not mexico.
You don't like seeing the flag... go back to mexico.
And I'm about as liberal as they come, except for immigration... this is completely ridiculous.

[big_dish]

A neo nazi could say he wants "improvement" in the country and claim the same thing you are.

You dont want improvements, you want to fundamentally change the way America thinks, acts, works, and receives. You want to turn us into something we are not, never were, and hopefully never will be.

My question still hasnt been answered, I'll just assume you were either brainwashed by your parents or a college professor like so many other young naive kids, and cant make decisions for yourself.

[BengalRep85-9]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='07 May 2010 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1273251138' post='886844']
And by the way anyone who doesnt want to see improvement in their country doesnt love their country and should just go ahead and move?? We arent supposed to strive for a "more perfect union" we're just supposed to accept it flaws and all?

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Thomas Jefferson


Maybe he should move too.
[/quote]
I think you're taking that quote out of context.
I doubt people were being disciplined for wearing the american flag and illegals weren't running rampant back then.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='big_dish' date='07 May 2010 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1273251896' post='886849']
A neo nazi could say he wants "improvement" in the country and claim the same thing you are.

You dont want improvements, you want to fundamentally change the way America thinks, acts, works, and receives. You want to turn us into something we are not, never were, and hopefully never will be.

My question still hasnt been answered, I'll just assume you were either brainwashed by your parents or a college professor like so many other young naive kids, and cant make decisions for yourself.
[/quote]

I love the constitution.

Brainwashed by my conservative parents? By my mostly moderate college? Get out of town.

By that token I could say your brainwashed by the mostly conservative military.

Whom by the way I work for, man if they only knew how much I hate my country... or and this one is even better, I am currently being investigated to get a top secret clearance with poly. Obviously I will fail the poly once they ask if I love my country or not.

If people didnt want to work to improve the union the neo natzi's you mention might be a little more happy, because slavery would still exist, jim crowe laws would exist, women might not be allowed to vote.

Your whole argument reminds me of this - http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-february-22-2010/rage-within-the-machine---progressivism

[quote name='BengalRep85-9' date='07 May 2010 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1273251921' post='886850']
I think you're taking that quote out of context.
I doubt people were being disciplined for wearing the american flag and illegals weren't running rampant back then.
[/quote]


That quote wasnt intended for this specific topic, it was intended for dish's "love it or leave it" attitude.

[big_dish]

I wasnt saying love it or leave it, I'm wondering why you dont move?

Somewhere where socialism rules (correct me if I'm wrong but that is what you want, right?). Like I said, its a serious question.

If I was completely unhappy and ashamed with my country I would move.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='big_dish' date='07 May 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1273253126' post='886853']
I wasnt saying love it or leave it, I'm wondering why you dont move?

Somewhere where socialism rules (correct me if I'm wrong but that is what you want, right?). Like I said, its a serious question.

If I was completely unhappy and ashamed with my country I would move.
[/quote]


No I want a mixed system, of both capitalism and socialism, because I understand that a mixed system is the best system for both allowing markets to work and protecting people from the more seedier of us.

Who said I was completely unhappy? But if you havent been paying attention we are in a pretty bad spot in our countries history and some of us want to work to fix it rather than just give up on it. That to me is more patriotic than wearing a flag shirt to school.

[sois]

[quote name='big_dish' date='07 May 2010 - 09:31 AM' timestamp='1273249910' post='886831']
With all due respect, I dont give a shit. This is America, and if Americans want to wear an American Flag symbol on any damn day of the year then they can. Hornets Nest or not. The pussification of America continues. Anyone who would bitch about that needs to toughen the fuck up and mind their own damn business- and be happy they live in a country where they have a choice and an opportunity. The school ditrict agrees and was upset before this story even hit the major news wire.
[/quote]

Um, antagonizing people because you know they can't do anything back to you is about as pussy as it gets.

[quote]
And what is Obama apologizing to the rest of the world for? All the money we've sent to them in the name of charity and relief? Importing all of their cheaply made made items while creating industry in their countries? [/quote]

LOL @ "creating industry". Way to spin sweatshops. Nice. At least I admit we take advantage of others for our own gain.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='sois' date='07 May 2010 - 01:40 PM' timestamp='1273254041' post='886860']
[color="#FF0000"]Um, antagonizing people because you know they can't do anything back to you is about as pussy as it gets.
[/color]


LOL @ "creating industry". Way to spin sweatshops. Nice. At least I admit we take advantage of others for our own gain.
[/quote]


x2

[big_dish]

[quote name='sois' date='07 May 2010 - 01:40 PM' timestamp='1273254041' post='886860']
Um, antagonizing people because you know they can't do anything back to you is about as pussy as it gets.
[b][color="#FF0000"]Its the American Flag. IN AMERICA. Bitching about that is about as pussy and sensitive as it gets.[/b][/color]
LOL @ "creating industry". Way to spin sweatshops. Nice. At least I admit we take advantage of others for our own gain.
[/quote]
[color="#FF0000"][b]You say potatoes I say potaatoes. Either way we are both right. I didnt say it didnt help us, but it certainly does help them.[/b][/color]

[|Lucid|]

As a proud veteran of Desert Storm (I joined during Desert Shield, for the simple reason that I believe in serving your country). I would like to take this opportunity to state that not all of those who have sacrificed for our countrymen are ethnocentric assholes.


Thank you.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Lucid' date='07 May 2010 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1273267040' post='886918']
As a proud veteran of Desert Storm (I joined during Desert Shield, for the simple reason that I believe in serving your country). I would like to take this opportunity to state that not all of those who have sacrificed for our countrymen are ethnocentric assholes.


Thank you.
[/quote]


Agreed.

[Xombie]

[quote name='sois' date='07 May 2010 - 01:40 PM' timestamp='1273254041' post='886860']
Um, antagonizing people because you know they can't do anything back to you is about as pussy as it gets.



[/quote]


So, in your view, any sort of protest is being a 'pussy'? Interesting.

[sois]

[quote name='Xombie' date='07 May 2010 - 04:04 PM' timestamp='1273273453' post='886935']
So, in your view, any sort of protest is being a 'pussy'? Interesting.
[/quote]

I didn't say that. I'm talking about this particular case.

It doesn't even matter, those kids are stupid and protested a non-issue. What did they expect to accomplish with their "protest"? All they did was put a damper on that 6th period chips and queso party.

Weak as fuck.

[big_dish]

[quote name='Lucid' date='07 May 2010 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1273267040' post='886918']
As a proud veteran of Desert Storm (I joined during Desert Shield, for the simple reason that I believe in serving your country). I would like to take this opportunity to state that not all of those who have sacrificed for our countrymen are ethnocentric assholes.


Thank you.
[/quote]

I would assume this is directed toward me as I dont recall Kenneth stating he ever made the choice to serve his country, I know for a fact Jaime didnt, I am not sure what Sois is saying half the time (I do like his posts though usually) and Bengalsrep85-9 and CincyinDC didnt delve too much into the argument... Leaving me as the only Veteran as far as I know.

If being a proud and patriotic American is ethnocentric, then guilty as charged. If you think I dont like far left liberalism and socialism and that makes me ethnocentric somehow, then again, guilty. If you think we should lose our national culture to bend over backwards for immigrants who dont want to assimilate in a productive way, then I'm ethnocentric.

BUT- if you think I consider myself above anyone else due to race, religion, culture or dancing ability, then you are way off base. I dont think I am any better than anyone. When I visit other countries and cultures I do everything in my power to show respect to their culture and their way of doing things. When I have lived in other countries, I have done all I can to show I am appreciative for their way of life and hospitality.

BUT- When I am in my own country, and administrators are telling high school kids to take off the colors of the American Flag due to some other nations "holiday", you are goddamn right I am pissed. Whats next, suspension for wearing a flag on St Patricks day? Saturday school for wearing it on Bastille Day? Detention on Queen Elizabeths birthday? I mean, where does it stop? I dont care if the dumbass kids were trying to make some sort of point, you should never, EVER in this country be told you arent allowed to wear the United States flag emblazoned on your person. I may seem more upset than some but people are pissed; conservative, moderate, even liberal, all parties of the spectrum that respect our country and what the flag has stood for, as well as the sacrifices of those who have made it possible for this to even be a discussion.

[STRAYCAT]

Last I checked this was a free country.....freedom of speech right.....oh wait that is for the minority now.....my bad. Just another chip off the foundation.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='STRAYCAT' date='07 May 2010 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1273278788' post='886951']
Last I checked this was a free country.....freedom of speech right.....oh wait that is for the minority now.....my bad. Just another chip off the foundation.
[/quote]


Not on private property it isnt.

[Jamie_B]

here is a shock, they were indeed trying to incite.

The VP was smart to send them home, 100 kids were going to be protesting that, and for their own saftey it was wise to send them home.

Nobody wants another columbine. And 20 little fucks showed up wearing border-patrol Tshits. Let me officially say this is bullshit, it wasnt about showing patriotism, it was about being assholes to mexicans over the AZ law. Racist fucks.

http://www.montereyherald.com/ci_15030582?source=most_viewed&nclick_check=1


[quote]
Morgan Hill: Teen athletes entangled in debate over U.S. flag clothing

Four students exposed raw feelings about race and immigration in a Morgan Hill high school this week when they made the provocative choice to wear shirts and shorts bearing the stars and stripes of the American flag to school on Cinco de Mayo.

Now their actions — which an assistant principal at Live Oak High School labeled "incendiary" — are spilling across the small town's borders, igniting a national debate on cable television's 24-hour talkfest.

Wednesday, as the school's Latino pupils — nearly 40 percent of the Live Oak student body — were celebrating the Mexican army's victory against France in 1862, many wearing Mexico's colors of red, white and green, the boys showed up dressed in the American flag. Assistant Principal Miguel Rodriguez told them to wear the clothes inside out or go home. At least two of the boys left campus because they found the other option to be "disrespectful" to the flag, and the others remained in school without changing, their parents said.

Rodriguez could not be reached for comment — the school referred all calls to the district office — but parents said he indicated to them that he was concerned about the boys' safety. The Morgan Hill Unified School District later said what happened was "extremely unfortunate" and that there is no ban on "patriotic" clothing. The new immigration law in Arizona, giving police broad power to detain anyone suspected of being in the United

States illegally, formed the backdrop for the school drama.
"We're happy about Arizona's law, and you bet we're fired up," said Julie Fagerstrom, whose son, Dominic Maciel, wore one of the shirts. Dominic's father, who is no longer in his son's life, Fagerstrom said, is a first-generation Mexican-American.

But the boys' action riled a number of the those who had celebrated Cinco de Mayo.

By Thursday morning, Mexican-American students began texting each other in class, and soon as many as 100 of them were standing in front of the school. A few minutes later they were marching down the road to Morgan Hill's city hall. "When we were marching, they would pass in their trucks and were flipping us off," said Gerardo Cabralas, a junior, referring to some non-Latino classmates. "And to be honest, sometimes we flipped them back."

A group of about a dozen Latino students expressed their dismay Thursday directly to the school's white students — particularly the boys who wore the flag clothing. "We respect them on Fourth of July," said sophomore Biana Coreas. "We don't go with our Mexican flags waving it up that day, so why can't they respect us too?"

The struggle for respect went on most of the day Thursday, and no one was certain when it would end.

"School was pretty crazy today," Dominic told the Mercury News. "I don't think I'm a villain; I was just representing my country. But I don't know if I would do this again. People took our message the wrong way. We weren't trying to start anything at all."

He said he can't remember whose idea it was to wear the garb and when the decision was made. Another boy — Matthew Dariano — also has some Mexican heritage, Fagerstrom said. The other two, Daniel Galli and Austin Carvalho, do not. "These are really great kids," Fagerstrom said. "They wear American flag clothes all the time. For the Fourth of July, for Memorial Day. They want to show their patriotism."

Diana Dariano, whose son Matthew wore a U.S. Constitution T-shirt, acknowledged that the friends wore the clothes to make a point: They love their country and believe in legal immigration.

"They heard that the Mexican kids were going to wear their colors so they wanted to wear the colors of the American flag," she said. "You can never tell someone in this country not to wear the American flag. It's America!"

Just as the school's administrators declined to punish the flag wearers, the Latino students said they had not suffered any disciplinary consequences for their march.

One free-speech expert said the boys should have been able to wear their country's colors to school.

"In the 1960s, students expressed themselves by desecrating the flag," said Peter Scheer, executive director with the First Amendment Coalition in San Rafael. "Flash 50 years ahead and the students are now demonstrating with the flag to show their patriotism. The same laws that protected the burning of the flag also protect wearing it."

That wasn't the only symbolic protest on Cinco de Mayo. About 20 students showed up at Pioneer High School wearing "Border Patrol" T-shirts. By the end of the day, administrators asked them to remove the shirts, which they apparently did with no problems, according to Karen Fuqua, spokeswoman for the San Jose Unified School District.

But Scheer, while defending the rights of the boys, also said there are times when a school principal can regulate students' dress.

"If the principal believes there will be a riot, then he can ban the shirts," Scheer said. "But if he thinks students are just going to be angry, it's not good enough."

Fagerstrom said the parents met with an assistant superintendent Wednesday evening who wanted to hear all the sides. At an earlier meeting, Principal Nick Boden and Rodriguez indicated to her that they were worried about the safety of the American-flag boys. "They said they heard from some students there was going to be some drama," Fagerstrom said.

District Superintendent Wesley Smith issued a statement Thursday: "The Morgan Hill Unified School District does not prohibit nor do we discourage wearing patriotic clothing. The incident on May 5 at Live Oak High School is extremely unfortunate. While campus safety is our primary concern and administrators made decisions yesterday in an attempt to ensure campus safety, students should not, and will not, be disciplined for wearing patriotic clothing. This matter is under investigation and appropriate action will be taken."

Meanwhile, the school's junior-senior prom is Saturday. "I'm kind of nervous about it," said senior Marina Schlaefli. "I'd rather this whole thing had never happened. It's making our school look bad, and it's not a bad school."[/quote]

[big_dish]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='07 May 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1273287527' post='886976']
here is a shock, they were indeed trying to incite.

The VP was smart to send them home, 100 kids were going to be protesting that, and for their own saftey it was wise to send them home.

Nobody wants another columbine. And 20 little fucks showed up wearing border-patrol Tshits. Let me officially say this is bullshit, it wasnt about showing patriotism, it was about being assholes to mexicans over the AZ law. Racist fucks.

http://www.montereyherald.com/ci_15030582?source=most_viewed&nclick_check=1
[/quote]

I think you read it wrong.

1. Nothing shows that the flag kids were trying to incite. In fact, the inference is that they were trying to promote American pride.

2. 100 kids were protesting the next day, after the story had made headline news.
2a. People need to have much thicker skin to make it through this world or Emo kids are going to run amok.

3. 20 morons showed up in border patrol shirts to a completely different school. That is pretty damn shitty.

[big_dish]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='07 May 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1273286943' post='886973']
Not on private property it isnt.
[/quote]

I could be wrong, but isn't that a public school? I dont know how it translates, but I dont know if its considered private property in that sense, if its a public school.

[Jamie_B]

2 things dish

1. How do you define serving your country? Do you have to be a member of the military to do so? Because with the exception of a few months in the private sector I have been a contractor to various government agencies for goin on 14 years now, in my opinion I have served my government, in your opinion I haven't?

2. Maybe a few kids wore it in pride, but how do you read this and believe that there was no intent to stir the pot? ... "We're happy about Arizona's law, and you bet we're fired up," said Julie Fagerstrom, whose son, Dominic Maciel, wore one of the shirts.

[|Lucid|]

Explaining to a bigot why they are a bigot is like explaining to an alcoholic that they are an alcoholic.

It's impossible (I know I have tried on both accounts many times). It's a revelation that can only come from introspection.

[Xombie]

[quote name='sois' date='07 May 2010 - 07:08 PM' timestamp='1273273710' post='886936']
I didn't say that. I'm talking about this particular case.

It doesn't even matter, those kids are stupid and protested a non-issue. What did they expect to accomplish with their "protest"? All they did was put a damper on that 6th period chips and queso party.

Weak as fuck.
[/quote]


So the athletes that stood upon the medal pedestal with their fists raised in a quiet protest of what they felt was unreasonable bigotry was weaksauce and was absolutely a wasted effort? Only if people believe in the same themes and movements you deem to be righteous are they ever allowed to voice their disgust, dismay, outrage, etc, etc...? I long for the days when protest of the practices of society and/or government were a bit more silent and decorum-respecting than the shoutfests you would seem to prefer. Should an American Jew child not be allowed to wear his yamaka on Muslim holidays because a child of Palestinian parents just moved into the school district? Where exactly would you draw the line?

[|Lucid|]

So, these students were protesting freedom is the only thing I can gather from this.