American students kicked off campus for wearing American flag shirts

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Xombie' date='08 May 2010 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1273364973' post='887195']
*laughs* Now you are splitting hairs. A 2 syllable word can elicit applause in one crowd and a riot when used in another. Perception is an infinite-edged sword that only ever seems to cut the wielder.


And does that mean Jews cannot wear a yamaka on Easter? I mean, it -may- offend Christians... And I guess that also means anyone displaying any non-Irish nationalistic items on March 17th is being truly heartless and itching to start a fight... Those arguments don't play because the first argument doesn't play.
[/quote]

No one is saying they can't wear flag shirts. And there is a difference between being in school where such demonstrations are not allowed, and making some sort of blanket rule.

As Jaimie said, wearing flag shirts was a choice... I guess you think the lesbian girl should have just brought a boy to the prom and wore a dress? Really?

[Xombie]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='08 May 2010 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1273366843' post='887204']
You really believe they werent trying to stir the pot?




I dont see much difference tbh, if her or the kids wearing the flag shirts saftey is in question, that has to be put above any "rights" they may have. Furhter I dont believe that some of those kids were doing anything other than stick poking, as lucid said they have a choice to not do that where as the lesbian girl does not.
[/quote]


In this country, people 'poke sticks' simply by being. In this country, people are allowed to 'poke sticks', if they choose to do. So, take away one group's 'sticks'. That is the definition of a slippery slope. The right to free speech and expression is not a light switch or a comfort. Quite honestly, it is a burden of enlightenment. And, therein, lies the truest problem of illegal immigration, in my opinion. It isn't the potential loss of jobs or resources, it is the fact that, in a startling amount of the illegal population, be they from Mexico, Russia, or Africa, the new breed of immigrants are not melding to the American culture and adding their distinct flavor to the Melting Pot, but are keeping themselves separate and expecting the rest of the culture to make allowances for them, be it them being in the country illegally to the lack of interest in learning the language of the land. Separate, but equal didn't work the first time in this country, and it will not work now. If people want to live in America, with the rights of Americans, they must also shoulder the responsibilities of Americans, be they taxes or dealing with other Americans utilizing those sames rights in a way you disagree with.

[Xombie]

[quote name='Lucid' date='08 May 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1273368663' post='887213']
No one is saying they can't wear flag shirts. And there is a difference between being in school where such demonstrations are not allowed, and making some sort of blanket rule.

As Jaimie said, wearing flag shirts was a choice... I guess you think the lesbian girl should have just brought a boy to the prom and wore a dress? Really?
[/quote]
Of course not. But in the universe where both of these occurrences occur, disallowing one because you disagree with it and allowing the other because you do is the height of hypocrisy. Both are well within their rights and both utilized them properly in ways that were more akin to the quiet, yet powerful methods of civil disobedience protest utilized by Ghandi and Dr. King, rather than the asshats who vulture women going into an abortion clinic, use soldiers' funerals as their personal soapboxes, or spit on politicians at townhall meetings.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Xombie' date='08 May 2010 - 09:37 PM' timestamp='1273369041' post='887214']
In this country, people 'poke sticks' simply by being. In this country, people are allowed to 'poke sticks', if they choose to do. So, take away one group's 'sticks'. That is the definition of a slippery slope. The right to free speech and expression is not a light switch or a comfort. Quite honestly, it is a burden of enlightenment. And, therein, lies the truest problem of illegal immigration, in my opinion. It isn't the potential loss of jobs or resources, it is the fact that, in a startling amount of the illegal population, be they from Mexico, Russia, or Africa, the new breed of immigrants are not melding to the American culture and adding their distinct flavor to the Melting Pot, but are keeping themselves separate and expecting the rest of the culture to make allowances for them, be it them being in the country illegally to the lack of interest in learning the language of the land. Separate, but equal didn't work the first time in this country, and it will not work now. If people want to live in America, with the rights of Americans, they must also shoulder the responsibilities of Americans, be they taxes or dealing with other Americans utilizing those sames rights in a way you disagree with.
[/quote]


We arent talking about adults capeable of thinking for themselves or even appropriate places of protest, were talking about children in a place of learning.

[John~Galt]

[quote name='Lucid' date='08 May 2010 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1273354387' post='887146']
Fuck yeah! I worked there washing dishes from the age of 15 til I graduated HS and left for boot camp. The food is excellent.. (Fucking Cambodian slave drivers!)
[/quote]

haha. How long ago did you work there? We were there from 1996-2000.

The college itself was absolutely filled with the world's biggest douche bags but I always thought the town itself was very cool. It has changed a lot since then. The water tower was torn down my senior year.

[John~Galt]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='08 May 2010 - 09:06 PM' timestamp='1273370779' post='887219']
We arent talking about adults capeable of thinking for themselves or even appropriate places of protest, were talking about children in a place of learning.
[/quote]

If they were marching up and down the halls chanting or disturbing things I would agree with you. A school is no place for that but that was not the case.

Would you support sending kids home for wearing peace sign t-shirts while our troops are in harms way?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='John~Galt' date='08 May 2010 - 11:32 PM' timestamp='1273375969' post='887230']
If they were marching up and down the halls chanting or disturbing things I would agree with you. A school is no place for that but that was not the case.

[color="#FF0000"]Would you support sending kids home for wearing peace sign t-shirts while our troops are in harms way?[/color]
[/quote]

Hardly the same thing, who would they be attempting to incite wearing a peace shirt?

[Xombie]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='08 May 2010 - 10:06 PM' timestamp='1273370779' post='887219']
We arent talking about adults capeable of thinking for themselves or even appropriate places of protest, were talking about children in a place of learning.
[/quote]


We both can throw countless examples of potentially mitigating factors on either side of this debate. If young adult's point of view on things political and societal were not sought after, things like Rock the Vote, and, at least back in my day, Channel One being broadcast in high school study periods would never be so prevalent. If such topics are brought to students school world for their perusal, then it would be very shortsighted to not expect reactions to them.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Xombie' date='09 May 2010 - 07:12 AM' timestamp='1273403577' post='887243']
We both can throw countless examples of potentially mitigating factors on either side of this debate. If young adult's point of view on things political and societal were not sought after, things like Rock the Vote, and, at least back in my day, Channel One being broadcast in high school study periods would never be so prevalent. If such topics are brought to students school world for their perusal, then it would be very shortsighted to not expect reactions to them.
[/quote]


I think your reaching.

[oldschooler]

I think it is asinine for anyone to think it was OK to do what was
done to these kids. If you can "incite" someone to be offended
by wearing the flag of the Country they live in, regardless of the
day it is being worn, then I would say that person/people that are
offended are the problem.

Why the fuck is a foreign holiday being observed in a public school anyway?
If it wasn't being observed, then why would anyone care that these students
wore those t-shirts on THAT day? And why aren't the students that are celebrating
Cinco De Mayo looked at as "inciting" anything?


And I think it is hilarious that people were called bigots in this thread.

[|Bunghole|]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4LM6hb4Uw0[/media]

[John~Galt]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='09 May 2010 - 05:09 AM' timestamp='1273399782' post='887242']
Hardly the same thing, who would they be attempting to incite wearing a peace shirt?
[/quote]

People that support the war or have loved ones in combat.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='09 May 2010 - 10:37 AM' timestamp='1273415862' post='887260']
[color="#FF0000"]I think it is asinine for anyone to think it was OK to do what was
done to these kids. If you can "incite" someone to be offended
by wearing the flag of the Country they live in, regardless of the
day it is being worn, then I would say that person/people that are
offended are the problem. [/color]

Why the fuck is a foreign holiday being observed in a public school anyway?
If it wasn't being observed, then why would anyone care that these students
wore those t-shirts on THAT day? And why aren't the students that are celebrating
Cinco De Mayo looked at as "inciting" anything?


And I think it is hilarious that people were called bigots in this thread.
[/quote]


With all due respect to you old, that is a naive viewpoint.

[quote name='John~Galt' date='09 May 2010 - 03:27 PM' timestamp='1273433251' post='887289']
People that support the war or have loved ones in combat.
[/quote]


And wanting peace so they can come home safe is antagonizing in what way?

[Xombie]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='09 May 2010 - 08:44 AM' timestamp='1273409077' post='887252']
I think your reaching.
[/quote]


Pot, meet Kettle.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Xombie' date='09 May 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1273442637' post='887304']
Pot, meet Kettle.
[/quote]


Disagree, but thats fine, we arent going to agree on this so I'm just going to move on.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='09 May 2010 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1273434810' post='887291']
With all due respect to you old, that is a naive viewpoint.
[/quote]



Maybe you should explain instead of just insulting.


And to me, it is no different than someone being offended/pissed for someone
wearing Bengals gear at PBS, regardless of the event being held there.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='10 May 2010 - 07:09 AM' timestamp='1273489775' post='887358']
Maybe you should explain instead of just insulting.


And to me, it is no different than someone being offended/pissed for someone
wearing Bengals gear at PBS, regardless of the event being held there.
[/quote]

Yeah. The problem though is that they'd never have a "celebrate the Steelers Day" at PBS...

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='10 May 2010 - 07:09 AM' timestamp='1273489775' post='887358']
Maybe you should explain instead of just insulting.


And to me, it is no different than someone being offended/pissed for someone
wearing Bengals gear at PBS, regardless of the event being held there.
[/quote]


I didnt think saying your viewpoint was naive was insulting, but ok.

I think it's naive to believe that there should be no animosity about this given the law that just passed in AZ, had this been a year ago I would agree, but given the circumstances it is of my opinion that they were trying to instigate the issue further.

If you want to put it in football terms, its the sort of like wearing a Brett Farve Vikings Jersey while the Vikings/Packers game is being played in GB.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='10 May 2010 - 06:36 AM' timestamp='1273491378' post='887362']
I didnt think saying your viewpoint was naive was insulting, but ok.

I think it's naive to believe that there should be no animosity about this given the law that just passed in AZ, had this been a year ago I would agree, but given the circumstances it is of my opinion that they were trying to instigate the issue further.

If you want to put it in football terms, its the sort of like wearing a Brett Farve Vikings Jersey while the Vikings/Packers game is being played in GB.
[/quote]


Look up the definition of naive and then tell me why it isn't insulting.
It doesn't matter though, that's your MO here. Moving on.

I said if there is animosity, then the person having it is the problem.
So what if they were trying to instigate? Why aren't the people celebrating
a foriegn holiday in a public school looked at like they are the initial instigators?


And horrible analogy, in my opinion. America isn't the hated rival
in this instance. They are the home team. Wearing the home teams
colors, at home, should never, ever, be looked at like a bad thing.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='10 May 2010 - 07:59 AM' timestamp='1273492773' post='887365']
Look up the definition of naive and then tell me why it isn't insulting.
It doesn't matter though, that's your MO here. Moving on.

I said if there is animosity, then the person having it is the problem.
So what if they were trying to instigate? Why aren't the people celebrating
a foriegn holiday in a public school looked at like they are the initial instigators?


And horrible analogy, in my opinion. America isn't the hated rival
in this instance. They are the home team. Wearing the home teams
colors, at home, should never, ever, be looked at like a bad thing.
[/quote]


I know what the definition is, and I said your [i]viewpoint[/i] was naive.

Because the context is important. If we made a law akin to the AZ law except aimed primarily at Germans, would those celebrating Oktoberfest downtown be the instigators? I don't think so.

I dont think its a horrible analogy, both envoke emotions for a purpose.

As I said had this been a year ago, I would be agreeing with you, but the context is vital.

Regardless I've said my peace on it, and we arent going to agree, so lets move on.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='10 May 2010 - 07:09 AM' timestamp='1273493382' post='887366']
I know what the definition is, and I said your [i]viewpoint[/i] was naive.

Because the context is important. If we made a law akin to the AZ law except aimed primarily at Germans, would those celebrating Oktoberfest downtown be the instigators? I don't think so.

I dont think its a horrible analogy, both envoke emotions for a purpose.

As I said had this been a year ago, I would be agreeing with you, but the context is vital.

Regardless I've said my peace on it, and we arent going to agree, so lets move on.
[/quote]



And that was insulting. But whatever.


Dude, the AZ law is against illegals. Obviously kids in an American high school are not illegal.
At least I would hope not. And this incident didn't happen in AZ anyway. And we aren't
talking about Mexicans celebrating "downtown". We are talking about students celebrating
a foreign holiday in an American high school. If other students are expected to tolerate that.
Then why should some people celebrating Cinco De Mayo be outraged about some students
wearing American flag t-shirts? And why should the students wearing "home team" gear
be admonished and sent home? To me it is saying it is OK to show pride in your foreign heritage,
but not OK for others to show pride in being an American at the same time. Ridiculous.

[big_dish]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='10 May 2010 - 08:35 AM' timestamp='1273494941' post='887367']
We are talking about students celebrating
a foreign holiday in an American high school. If other students are expected to tolerate that.
Then why should some people celebrating Cinco De Mayo be outraged about some students
wearing American flag t-shirts? And why should the students wearing "home team" gear
be admonished and sent home? To me it is saying it is OK to show pride in your foreign heritage,
but not OK for others to show pride in being an American at the same time. Ridiculous.
[/quote]

x2. I dont see how this doesnt make sense to people.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='10 May 2010 - 08:35 AM' timestamp='1273494941' post='887367']
And that was insulting. But whatever.


Dude, the AZ law is against illegals. Obviously kids in an American high school are not illegal.
At least I would hope not. And this incident didn't happen in AZ anyway. And we aren't
talking about Mexicans celebrating "downtown". We are talking about students celebrating
a foreign holiday in an American high school. If other students are expected to tolerate that.
Then why should some people celebrating Cinco De Mayo be outraged about some students
wearing American flag t-shirts? And why should the students wearing "home team" gear
be admonished and sent home? To me it is saying it is OK to show pride in your foreign heritage,
but not OK for others to show pride in being an American at the same time. Ridiculous.
[/quote]

So if someone takes something the wrong way (like you are with regard to my "insult") then they are the one with the problem?

Futher, if it were as simple as that and there wasnt the AZ law (which is still debateable about it doing with illigals and not leagals that may have that "look") then I would be in complete agreement with you, but the extenuiating circumstances are more than that and you are ignoring that imo.

But as I said I am done with the argument, you arent going to change my mind, and Im not going to change yours, so again lets move on.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='big_dish' date='07 May 2010 - 09:19 AM' timestamp='1273245552' post='886815']
Oh, I dont know if it was protesting Cinco De Mayo though, I think if it was a statement at all, it would be "Proud to be an American" - which doesnt specify race. I dont know. Either way, you dont send kids home for wearing the American Flag on any day, period.

I personally love Cinco De Mayo. I dislike the French in general so its awesome they got beat, but its just a fun day. People are usually in good moods, bars are much more fun. I bought a case of Corona's for my office to drink towards the end of the work day.
[/quote]

they were a group of kids, who wore american flag shirts and BANDANAS to school... who the FUCK wears an american flag bandana to school? no one does..

clearly they were starting shit and thought SURELY no one would call them on their bullshit...

and they did...

shoulda let them get their ass beat or something...

theyd likely not do it again..

now mommy rednecks is up in arms cause little billy got sent home for being a fuckwad..

the kids should be suspended and the parents beaten with rods..

get a fucking grip and act responsible.

[sois]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='10 May 2010 - 11:12 AM' timestamp='1273515124' post='887421']
they were a group of kids, who wore american flag shirts and BANDANAS to school... who the FUCK wears an american flag bandana to school? no one does..

clearly they were starting shit and thought SURELY no one would call them on their bullshit...

and they did...

shoulda let them get their ass beat or something...

theyd likely not do it again..

now mommy rednecks is up in arms cause little billy got sent home for being a fuckwad..

the kids should be suspended and the parents beaten with rods..

get a fucking grip and act responsible.
[/quote]

I like this.