They're building a mosque close to my house.

[Jamie_B]

Also for anyone who thinks this is just about Ground Zero, what say you to this?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/22/AR2010082202895.html

[BengalBacker]

I have the right to shit my pants in the middle of a crowded restaurant. Doesn't mean I should.


The more I think about it, that shitty analogy IS appropriate.

Jamie, I just don't know what to think about you any more. EVERYONE has said, that it is within their rights to build it there, yet you keep arguing as if we are saying they don't have the right. What the fuck are you not understanding?

[Homer_Rice]

Well, if this isn't about rights, then what is it about? Etiquette? And if bullying people into submission doesn't work, then will folks just suck it up and learn to live with it? Probably not, as this entire issue is a drummed up bit of nonsense that started with a bunch of wacked out freaks with a radically distasteful political agenda. Do you think if a number of folks politely asked Geller, et al. to "quiet down, please" because their rhetoric and actions are not in keeping with a respectful understanding of tragedy of that day, that they wouldn't be the first to begin foaming at the mouth about their first amendment rights?

Bunch of fucking hypocrites in that crowd. And this guy would probably be both sad and pissed...if he were still alive:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/LKJIM.jpg[/img]

[BengalBacker]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1284025539' post='915970']
Well, if this isn't about rights, then what is it about? Etiquette?
[/quote]

Yes.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='BengalBacker' timestamp='1284026620' post='915972']
Yes.
[/quote]




No shit.

It's like when I first moved here to Wisconsin. I was apalled to learn that
a parent over the age of 21, can take their child into a bar, order them drinks
and allow them to get drunk in the bar, regardless of their childs age.
I think they changed it to where the "child" must be 18. At least I know they
were in the process of changing it, finally.


MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- No one under 18 could drink in a bar even with their parents' consent under a bill that has passed the Wisconsin Assembly.

[b]Under current law, children of any age can drink in a bar if they're with their parents and the adult gives consent and the bartender is willing to serve them.[/b]

But that would change under the bill passed the Assembly on a bipartisan 56-41 vote Thursday.

That proposal would set the minimum age someone could drink in a bar with consent at 18. The current legal drinking age is 21.

The measure must clear the Senate before going to Gov. Jim Doyle.

The Tavern League of Wisconsin and the Wisconsin Medical Society are among the supporters but a national youth rights group opposes it saying whether children drink in bars is a family matter.


[url="http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/91119859.html"]http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/91119859.html[/url]


(From this past April)

Now the question isn't/wasn't if it is/was the parents' right to allow their child to drink.
Because it is/was legal. Obviously it was their right. But does that mean they should?

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='BengalBacker' timestamp='1284026620' post='915972']
Yes.
[/quote]
Then, if that is the case, it's easy to draw a couple of conclusions:

1--The rude, impolite people on this issue are not the ones who want to build the cultural center;
2--And, if it is true that many folks who find some sympathy for this muddy, ill-defined "etiquette" rationale have no problem with the underlying "rights" issue, then they ought to prove they aren't prejudiced assholes by shutting the fuck up once the community center is built and becomes a part of the vibrant, diverse, NYC community.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1284034256' post='915985']
Then, if that is the case, it's easy to draw a couple of conclusions:

1--The rude, impolite people on this issue are not the ones who want to build the cultural center;
2--And, if it is true that many folks who find some sympathy for this muddy, ill-defined "etiquette" rationale have no problem with the underlying "rights" issue, then they ought to prove they aren't prejudiced assholes by shutting the fuck up once the community center is built and becomes a part of the vibrant, diverse, NYC community.
[/quote]


Yes

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BengalBacker' timestamp='1284017793' post='915966']
I have the right to shit my pants in the middle of a crowded restaurant. Doesn't mean I should.


The more I think about it, that shitty analogy IS appropriate.

Jamie, I just don't know what to think about you any more. EVERYONE has said, that it is within their rights to build it there, yet you keep arguing as if we are saying they don't have the right. What the fuck are you not understanding?
[/quote]


Im not sure how many times I need to repeat this.

I get that people have their sensibilities about this.

But their sensibilities dont matter.

This isnt about peoples sensibilities.

Its about their rights.

Thats all that matters.

(and you dont have the right to shit yourself in public if someone else has to clean it up)

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1284034931' post='915989']
Im not sure how many times I need to repeat this.

I get that people have their sensibilities about this.

But their sensibilities dont matter.

This isnt about peoples sensibilities.

Its about their rights.

Thats all that matters.

(and you dont have the right to shit yourself in public if someone else has to clean it up)
[/quote]



You don't have to repeat it at all.

Because it isn't really what is being discussed.
I have said it several times.

Do you think it is too close too soon?
Do you think it is in poor taste?
Do you think it is a bad decision and will harm more than help?

That is what is being discussed. Not rights. Not admendments.
You are thumping your chest over shit that no one is questioning.
And it is stupid.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1284035572' post='915997']
You don't have to repeat it at all.

Because it isn't really what is being discussed.
I have said it several times.

Do you think it is too close too soon?
Do you think it is in poor tasted?
Do you think it is a bad decision and will harm more than help?

That is what is being discussed. Not rights. Not admendments.
You are thumping your chest over shit that no one is questioning.
And it is stupid.
[/quote]

It isnt being discussed by a few but its the ONLY thing that matters. All the rest of it is inconsequential. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Do I think its too close too soon? Doenst matter
Do I think its in poor taste? Doesnt matter
Do I thin its a bad decision and will harm more than help? Doesnt matter

And again to be frank I find it more offensive that, using homers words, people would try to bully anyone out of their rights.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1284035847' post='916000']
It isnt being discussed by a few but its the ONLY thing that matters. All the rest of it is inconsequential. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Do I think its too close too soon? Doenst matter
Do I think its in poor taste? Doesnt matter
Do I thin its a bad decision and will harm more than help? Doesnt matter

And again to be frank I find it more offensive that, using homers words, people would try to bully anyone out of their rights.
[/quote]


It does matter how people feel and what they think.

I didn't say should your feelings overrule anyone's rights.


And bully? People are expressing their displeasure and their feelings.
That's how things get changed. That's how disagreements can become agreements,
without violence or war being involved.

You do it all the time on shit. Just because something is legal or is protected
by the Constitution, does not make it the end all. People are allowed to have
an opinion and use their own moral compass on issues.

Way to dodge the questions though, and go back to your chest thumping.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1284036674' post='916007']
It does matter how people feel and what they think.

I didn't say should your feelings overrule anyone's rights.


And bully? People are expressing their displeasure and their feelings.
That's how things get changed. That's how disagreements can become agreements,
without violence or war being involved.

You do it all the time on shit. Just because something is legal or is protected
by the Constitution, does not make it the end all. People are allowed to have
an opinion and use their own moral compass on issues.

Way to dodge the questions though, and go back to your chest thumping.
[/quote]


No it doesnt.

The city had already approved it (and hasnt withdrawn that approval) before this racist pied piper started leading you sheep down her path.

You can express your displeasure all you want, your right, but if they want to build it, all you can do about it is whine.

Yes it does make it the end all because its protected by the constitution because when it comes down to it any lawsuits brought forth will fail because in this country the constitution is indeed the end all.

I didnt dodge anything, in fact I typed out each question and answered it, I just didnt give you the answers you wanted.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1284034256' post='915985']
Then, if that is the case, it's easy to draw a couple of conclusions:

1--The rude, impolite people on this issue are not the ones who want to build the cultural center;
2--And, if it is true that many folks who find some sympathy for this muddy, ill-defined "etiquette" rationale have no problem with the underlying "rights" issue, then they ought to prove they aren't prejudiced assholes by shutting the fuck up once the community center is built and becomes a part of the vibrant, diverse, NYC community.
[/quote]


I sure as hell wouldn't call people that are against it "rude and impolite".
And I wouldn't say they are muddy and ill-defined. And I sure as hell wouldn't
say they are prejudice or assholes.


It is like the Westboro Bapists Church protesters. No one is questioning it if it
is their right to protest. Some are questioning if they should be protesting where
they are protesting. It isn't about rights. It is about ruffling feathers when they
don't have to be ruffled.



Imam Rauf now says he regrets the choice of a site so close to Ground Zero: "If I knew that this would happen, cause this kind of pain I wouldn't have done it."

Despite his regret, Rauf now says that the Islamic center must move forward, due to the potential for violent backlash if it is halted.
"Our national security now hinges on how we negotiate this, how we speak about it."



http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2010/09/imam_rauf_national_security_hinges_on_mosque_debate.html


Really? Violent backlash if it is halted? So he is moving forward because
Radicals will be even more pissed off. And want to attack us even more.
So they want a Mosque there. The terrorist win.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1284037116' post='916009']
No it doesnt.

The city had already approved it (and hasnt withdrawn that approval) before this racist pied piper started leading you sheep down her path.

You can express your displeasure all you want, your right, but if they want to build it, all you can do about it is whine.

Yes it does make it the end all because its protected by the constitution because when it comes down to it any lawsuits brought forth will fail because in this country the constitution is indeed the end all.

I didnt dodge anything, in fact I typed out each question and answered it, I just didnt give you the answers you wanted.
[/quote]


Yes it does. If it didn't matter, then no one would or should ever voice
their opinion or protest anything.



Racist? Pied piper and sheep? Seriously? lol


I am not talking about lawsuits and the constitution. And I am not whining.
Or will I whine if it moves forward. Just expressing my displeasure.

And saying it doesn't matter is not answering with your beliefs.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1284037967' post='916018']
Yes it does. If it didn't matter, then no one would or should ever voice
their opinion or protest anything.



Racist? Pied piper and sheep? Seriously? lol


I am not talking about lawsuits and the constitution. And I am not whining.
Or will I whine if it moves forward. Just expressing my displeasure.

And saying it doesn't matter is not answering with your beliefs.
[/quote]


No it doesnt. People express their opinion all the time, they have that right, but thats all they can do in this situation.

Yes seriously, I know you didnt read the whole thread so go back through it and see how this all started.

My beliefs? I've expressed very clearly that all I are about is protecting peoples rights. Thats not what you want to hear, what you want to hear is me get upset about it, with some superficial patriotism answer. Patriotism isnt about that, its about the Constitution.

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1284037681' post='916014']
I sure as hell wouldn't call people that are against it "rude and impolite".
And I wouldn't say they are muddy and ill-defined. And I sure as hell wouldn't
say they are prejudice or assholes.[/quote]

Read what I wrote more closely to get my precise meaning. And yes, those among the disputees who are rude and impolite[url="http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurarozen/0910/The_Park51_money_trail.html?showall"] are clearly prejudiced assholes.[/url]


[quote]It is like the Westboro Bapists Church protesters. No one is questioning it if it
is their right to protest. Some are questioning if they should be protesting where
they are protesting. It isn't about rights. It is about ruffling feathers when they
don't have to be ruffled.[/quote]

I agree to an extent here, except that as Rauf claims, he did not set out to be provocative and the Westboro folks clearly thrive on provocation.


[quote]Imam Rauf now says he regrets the choice of a site so close to Ground Zero: "If I knew that this would happen, cause this kind of pain I wouldn't have done it."

Despite his regret, Rauf now says that the Islamic center must move forward, due to the potential for violent backlash if it is halted.
"Our national security now hinges on how we negotiate this, how we speak about it."



http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2010/09/imam_rauf_national_security_hinges_on_mosque_debate.html


Really? Violent backlash if it is halted? So he is moving forward because
Radicals will be even more pissed off. And want to attack us even more.
So they want a Mosque there. The terrorist win.
[/quote]

Anyone with some political savvy will see how the trap was set. Classic case of boxing in. And yes, the neo-con terrorists do win. And, for the 4 millionth time, it isn't a mosque any more than the Jewish Community Center out on Summit Road is a synagogue. (If it's still there. This gentile was a member as a kid.)

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1284038562' post='916023']
Read what I wrote more closely to get my precise meaning.[color="#FF0000"] And yes, those among the disputees who are rude and impolite[url="http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurarozen/0910/The_Park51_money_trail.html?showall"] are clearly prejudiced assholes.[/color][/url]



[/quote]


Cant say I'm surprised, seeing the woman who started this mess is of the same ilk.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1284038328' post='916021']
No it doesnt. People express their opinion all the time, they have that right, but thats all they can do in this situation.

Yes seriously, I know you didnt read the whole thread so go back through it and see how this all started.

My beliefs? I've expressed very clearly that all I are about is protecting peoples rights. Thats not what you want to hear, what you want to hear is me get upset about it, with some superficial patriotism answer. Patriotism isnt about that, its about the Constitution.
[/quote]


I read how it started. It was started tongue in cheek.
I didn't read through all of it though.

Saying you are against having something at a certain place or that it
is in poor taste or a bad decision is not saying you are against anyone's rights. AT ALL.

Again, they have the right. That's not even in question.But just because you have rights to do something, does not
mean it is a good idea to do it. White Supremacists have the right to protest in South Central L.A.?
Should they? People in Wisconsin have the right to allow their children to get drunk at the bar.
Should they? People have the right to spew hate and intolerance. Should they? There are a lot more
examples. But I hope those are enough for you to get the point.

So you see, there is a difference between saying it is someone's right, and asking if it is something
that should be done. That's all I have been doing.


You act like Patriotism is about questioning shit because you love your Country.
But when you direct it at me, you act like it is a bad word or thing.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1284038562' post='916023']
Read what I wrote more closely to get my precise meaning. And yes, those among the disputees who are rude and impolite[url="http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurarozen/0910/The_Park51_money_trail.html?showall"] are clearly prejudiced assholes.[/url]

I agree to an extent here, except that as Rauf claims, he did not set out to be provocative and the Westboro folks clearly thrive on provocation.

Anyone with some political savvy will see how the trap was set. Classic case of boxing in. And yes, the neo-con terrorists do win. And, for the 4 millionth time, it isn't a mosque any more than the Jewish Community Center out on Summit Road is a synagogue. (If it's still there. This gentile was a member as a kid.)
[/quote]


So the people that brought it to attention are prejudice?
OK. That still doesn't mean that it is a good decision.

He can claim all he wants. He can act like he had no clue that
people would be upset or show displeasure all he wants. He can
act like Islam is under attack in the eyes of Muslim World
now all he wants. The facts is, it was a bad decision and in poor taste.


I know nothing of the Jewish Community Center. I do know that what is being
built near Ground Zero is a 13 story Islamic community center AND Mosque.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1284039103' post='916026']
I read how it started. It was started tongue in cheek.
I didn't read through all of it though.

Saying you are against having something at a certain place or that it
is in poor taste or a bad decision is not saying you are against anyone's rights. AT ALL.

Again, they have the right. That's not even in question.But just because you have rights to do something, does not
mean it is a good idea to do it. White Supremacists have the right to protest in South Central L.A.?
Should they? People in Wisconsin have the right to allow their children to get drunk at the bar.
Should they? People have the right to spew hate and intolerance. Should they? There are a lot more
examples. But I hope those are enough for you to get the point.

So you see, there is a difference between saying it is someone's right, and asking if it is something
that should be done. That's all I have been doing.


You act like Patriotism is about questioning shit because you love your Country.
But when you direct it at me, you act like it is a bad word or thing.
[/quote]


No that woman is very sincere in her racism. If you believe she is being tongue in cheek, your being naive.

Never said it did, all I said it all you can do about it is whine.

The people building this were not setting out to be provocative, they just wanted a place to worship, and this racist cunt played her flute and a bunch of ignorant folk followed. To compare those examples to him is nothing more than some inner sense of superficial patriotism.

You can ask all you want, I dont care. I dont have a problem with it, thats what you want me to say. Now kindly dismiss my opinions on it because it doesnt fall in line with your superficial sense of patriotism. Because thats what you want to do isnt it?

If you love your country you love what it stands for, and what greater thing is there than the very reason our forfathers even came over here to being with? Freedom to practice their faith without being oppressed. That is [b]BY FAR[/b] the single greatest freedom we have. I will defend that tooth and nail until the end of my days, even for religions that I am not a part of.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1284039801' post='916028']
No that woman is very sincere in her racism. If you believe she is being tongue in cheek, your being naive. [/quote]


I thought you were talking about THE THREAD.


[quote]Never said it did, all I said it all you can do about it is whine.[/quote]

Not whining now. Won't whine then.



[quote]The people building this were not setting out to be provocative, they just wanted a place to worship, and this racist cunt played her flute and a bunch of ignorant folk followed. To compare those examples to him is nothing more than some inner sense of superficial patriotism. [/quote]


Wrong. You don't have to be racist or a superficial patriot to think it is bad taste
and a bad decision. To think otherwise is being a self righteous prick.



[quote]You can ask all you want, I dont care. I dont have a problem with it, thats what you want me to say. Now kindly dismiss my opinions on it because it doesnt fall in line with your superficial sense of patriotism. Because thats what you want to do isnt it?[/quote]


You have had no opinion. You just said it is their right.
That is not an opinion. Now you say you don't have a problem
with it. Finally. That's all I was asking. Wish you would have
said that a few pages ago, instead of thumping your chest over
something that wasn't even being questioned.

And my superficial patriotism? LOL

Good Lord.

[quote]If you love your country you love what it stands for, and what greater thing is there than the very reason our forfathers even came over here to being with? Freedom to practice their faith without being oppressed. That is [b]BY FAR[/b] the single greatest freedom we have. I will defend that tooth and nail until the end of my days, even for religions that I am not a part of.[/quote]


*sigh*

If I love my Country, huh?

I am not against the religion being practiced. Any religion.
And I am a part of no relgion. I think they all are self serving
and have been the cause of wars more than any other issue in the history of man.
I just think it is in bad taste to put it there. If they do,
OK. Fine by me. Whatever. Just expressing my displeasure with it
being built there before it is built. If it is not built there,
I won't "celebrate". If it is built there, you won't hear another
word out of me about it. So no, no whining. No nothing. Just talking
about a topic. Just expressing my opinion. Not trying to squash anyone's
rights, piss on the Constitutuion, or anything of the sort. Never have.
Never will.



So please climb down off your soap box and put away your musket.

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1284039651' post='916027']
So the people that brought it to attention are prejudice?
OK. That still doesn't mean that it is a good decision.

He can claim all he wants. He can act like he had no clue that
people would be upset or show displeasure all he wants. He can
act like Islam is under attack in the eyes of Muslim World
now all he wants. The facts is, it was a bad decision and in poor taste.


I know nothing of the Jewish Community Center. I do know that what is being
built near Ground Zero is a 13 story Islamic community center AND Mosque.
[/quote]
I don't doubt that your concern is genuine. But, where you see something negative, I see something positive. I think it's wonderful that the center is in the area. I think that Islam has a genuine place in our culture at large, and in specific, I think that a peaceful community center in the general vicinity furthers the integration of that faith within our society. It represents nothing dangerous or threatening at all, nor does it offend anyone with fairly pure hearts and clear minds.

This was all fine until some very clever propagandists, with a very clear agenda, turned this into a tempest in a teapot. Now, if you side with the propagandists, then your judgement becomes unreliable to me, because the impact of your falling into line with them implicitly moves their agenda further down the road. And that's not consistent with the kind of America I want to build during my lifetime.

Frankly, all this chattering and fear-mongering tells me more about how some of my fellow citizens think than it does about the "dangers" of Islam. And all the "hurt feelings" in the world don't change the fact that, as a people, we ought to be better than this petty and divisive bullshit.

I don't know, maybe I'm fortunate in that I've had a chance to move around the world a little and have been exposed to different cultures. Makes it easier for me to appreciate the goodness I find, wherever I find it, even if it sometimes comes in a package that is different from what I am normally accustomed to experiencing.

Hell, I say let the Japanese put up a Shinto shrine a couple of blocks away, too. The more faiths the merrier.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1284041299' post='916034']
I don't doubt that your concern is genuine. But, where you see something negative, I see something positive. I think it's wonderful that the center is in the area. I think that Islam has a genuine place in our culture at large, and in specific, I think that a peaceful community center in the general vicinity furthers the integration of that faith within our society. It represents nothing dangerous or threatening at all, nor does it offend anyone with fairly pure hearts and clear minds.

This was all fine until some very clever propagandists, with a very clear agenda, turned this into a tempest in a teapot. Now, if you side with the propagandists, then your judgement becomes unreliable to me, because the impact of your falling into line with them implicitly moves their agenda further down the road. And that's not consistent with the kind of America I want to build during my lifetime.

Frankly, all this chattering and fear-mongering tells me more about how some of my fellow citizens think than it does about the "dangers" of Islam. And all the "hurt feelings" in the world don't change the fact that, as a people, we ought to be better than this petty and divisive bullshit.

I don't know, maybe I'm fortunate in that I've had a chance to move around the world a little and have been exposed to different cultures. Makes it easier for me to appreciate the goodness I find, wherever I find it, even if it sometimes comes in a package that is different from what I am normally accustomed to experiencing.

Hell, I say let the Japanese put up a Shinto shrine a couple of blocks away, too. The more faiths the merrier.
[/quote]


You are not following me at all.

A lot of people, myself included, look at Ground Zero as hallowed ground.
The attacks were done in the name of Islam. I know that does not mean that
every person that is a Muslim is a terrorist. I know that most of the people
that are Muslim are peaceful. The point is, I think it is obviously too close
too soon. It has drummed up a lot of feelings from people that aren't bigots,
or fear mongers. It would be no different if there was a proposal that something
Japanese be built in Pearl Harbor, soon after WW2 was over. But the war that started
over that attack on Ground Zero is still going on. The main people behind the attack
are still out there plotting.


The worst attack on American soil by Foreign fighters in our history.
The wounds still run deep. They haven't had time to heal and even start
to scar up. It is just too soon in my opinion.

Anyway, I have spent enough time on this topic. My feelings are well known.
I need to use my time on the computer to help make this site the Best Bengals
Site on the Net. Not have my patriotism or judgment questioned.

Good day.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1284040847' post='916032']
I thought you were talking about THE THREAD.
[/quote]

No I'm talking about the whole hubbub. This thread wouldnt exist if this woman didnt say anything.

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1284040847' post='916032']
Not whining now. Won't whine then.
[/quote]

Good


[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1284040847' post='916032']
Wrong. You don't have to be racist or a superficial patriot to think it is bad taste
and a bad decision. To think otherwise is being a self righteous prick.
[/quote]

People's opinion on the taste of it doesnt matter to me, I only care about peoples rights not their taste.



[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1284040847' post='916032']
You have had no opinion. You just said it is their right.
That is not an opinion. Now you say you don't have a problem
with it. Finally. That's all I was asking. Wish you would have
said that a few pages ago, instead of thumping your chest over
something that wasn't even being questioned.

And my superficial patriotism? LOL

Good Lord.
[/quote]

I've said very clearly many times that I dont care about peoples sensibilities or taste, that all I care about is peoples rights.

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1284040847' post='916032']
*sigh*

If I love my Country, huh?

I am not against the religion being practiced. Any religion.
And I am a part of no relgion. I think they all are self serving
and have been the cause of wars more than any other issue in the history of man.
I just think it is in bad taste to put it there. If they do,
OK. Fine by me. Whatever. Just expressing my displeasure with it
being built there before it is built. If it is not built there,
I won't "celebrate". If it is built there, you won't hear another
word out of me about it. So no, no whining. No nothing. Just talking
about a topic. Just expressing my opinion. Not trying to squash anyone's
rights, piss on the Constitutuion, or anything of the sort. Never have.
Never will.


So please climb down off your soap box and put away your musket.
[/quote]


Glad to hear that, and just as you want to express your opinion on the taste of it, I will express mine on the rights of the people trumping peoples sensibilities. Rights matter, sensibilities dont.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1284041299' post='916034']
I don't doubt that your concern is genuine. But, where you see something negative, I see something positive. I think it's wonderful that the center is in the area. I think that Islam has a genuine place in our culture at large, and in specific, I think that a peaceful community center in the general vicinity furthers the integration of that faith within our society. It represents nothing dangerous or threatening at all, nor does it offend anyone with fairly pure hearts and clear minds.

This was all fine until some very clever propagandists, with a very clear agenda, turned this into a tempest in a teapot. Now, if you side with the propagandists, then your judgement becomes unreliable to me, because the impact of your falling into line with them implicitly moves their agenda further down the road. And that's not consistent with the kind of America I want to build during my lifetime.

Frankly, all this chattering and fear-mongering tells me more about how some of my fellow citizens think than it does about the "dangers" of Islam. And all the "hurt feelings" in the world don't change the fact that, as a people, we ought to be better than this petty and divisive bullshit.

I don't know, maybe I'm fortunate in that I've had a chance to move around the world a little and have been exposed to different cultures. Makes it easier for me to appreciate the goodness I find, wherever I find it, even if it sometimes comes in a package that is different from what I am normally accustomed to experiencing.

[color="#FF0000"]Hell, I say let the Japanese put up a Shinto shrine a couple of blocks away, too. The more faiths the merrier.[/color]
[/quote]


I was just thinking the same last night. Lets put up a Church and a Synagogue on either side of it. Lets show these terrorist assholes that despite our differences in faiths that we can still coexist in peace with one and other. That would be a real spit in their eye.