Carson

[|SF2|]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1291678708' post='948569']
Not thin skinned. Just thought it was uncalled for.
You try and degrade people because they don't share
your same view. I was just pointing that out that I didn't stoop
to that level, so why are you. If you want to continue, then by all means.

That was the only video I could find quickly. For some reason
they don't post videos of him making deep throws and TO
short arming them, or others dropping them.

Still, he threw it 40+ yards flat footed. But you want me to believe
he can't throw it farther when stepping into it. Just because he didn't
throw it that far yesterday, does not mean he can't by the way. I hope
you can understand the difference.


Carson won't be 32 until the end of next season.

A lot of fans are fickle and sometimes ignorant.

You yourself talk about "excitement", yet ignore the fact that
this team has lost 7 games by a TD or less. They have played
in a lot of "exciting" games this season. But sadly, they lost them.

I am all for firing Bratkowski. But the Bengals are scoring more
than they did last season. They averaged 19.1 points per game
last season. They are averaging 21.2 this season. The Defense
has been shitting the bed.

Like I said, Carson deserves some blame. But I think way too
much is being laid at his feet. I don't think he needs replaced.
I don't think you even think about replacing one of your best players,
when your team has played undisciplined football, has a weak
O-line, suspect play calling, and still is close to winning games.

I think a lot of the problems can be fixed by better coaching and
play calling. I don't think the entire thing needs blown up, AGAIN.

I also think it is hilarious (in a pathetic kind of way) that people
want to draft unproven prospects because of what they hope
they might be. And most of those same people are the same
one's that use the term "Bungalized" when speaking of previous
prospects.
[/quote]

I don't want to draft anyone. Fuck I want to draft Michael Oher and dump Andre Smith. I just don't see how we can fix this oline in one draft or FA session. If we have another uncapped season (god only knows what will happen) I can't see us being able to pick up the better FAs on the line. Classic Reds vs the large market clubs playing out. Unless we hire a coach that really wants Carson to stay and has some houdini shit in his bag I start to wonder if Carson can take a few more years of this crap OR WILL.

I actually don't think Carson deserves much blame at all, I just can't imagine being him at this point. He says all the right things but Jesus this has been a 4 year train wreck. Even last year our fucking receivers dropped passes, ran shit routes and our oline false started time and time again. I bet when Carson goes home he fires up Madden 09, plays as Harrison or Ray Lewis and lays Chad and Coles out just to relieve stress. Chad has only added to the nightmare by becoming a circus clown/ media whore. The Andre Smith fiasco must REALLY piss him off. I know I would be furious if our #1 pick, the next Willie Anderson, showed up like Smith.

I honestly can't imagine him wanting to come back to this team. Why would he want to? You are right, he isn't old at 31/32 next year but he has to know his career is being flushed down the toilet here and he is on the downside of his career. He has an ego just as every great player does. Nobody in football would blame him for asking for a trade except Bengals fans. I don't see him being a Munoz type and staying here after his playing days are over.

I do think the elbow injury took away arm strength. That should not surprise anyone based on the injury. He is still a very capable QB and in the right system can still kick ass. Just don't think we will get back to that level for a few years so the question still is what do we do or better yet what does he do?

[|OneHeartBeat|]

[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1291677281' post='948556']
I have to admit, it's people like you that allow me to enjoy Bengals losses. I know after a loss, I'm going to be able to come on here and read some of the most retarded shit that could possibly be posted. You went and watched the game live, so now you think you are an expert on the arm strength of Carson Palmer. HA! You are a real funny dude!
[/quote]

Is that really all you can add to this debate? Lots of people have gone to games and posted their observations. I don't see where he claimed to be an expert at anything other than stating his opinion. If you think its retarted stupid shit-tell us why you think that? Even if Palmer is not the biggest problem on this team, you may need to consider moving him, for the right offer, b/c we have lots of holes to fill.

[bengaled]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1291681229' post='948583']
I don't want to draft anyone. Fuck I want to draft Michael Oher and dump Andre Smith. I just don't see how we can fix this oline in one draft or FA session. If we have another uncapped season (god only knows what will happen) I can't see us being able to pick up the better FAs on the line. Classic Reds vs the large market clubs playing out. Unless we hire a coach that really wants Carson to stay and has some houdini shit in his bag I start to wonder if Carson can take a few more years of this crap OR WILL.

I actually don't think Carson deserves much blame at all, I just can't imagine being him at this point. He says all the right things but Jesus this has been a 4 year train wreck. Even last year our fucking receivers dropped passes, ran shit routes and our oline false started time and time again. I bet when Carson goes home he fires up Madden 09, plays as Harrison or Ray Lewis and lays Chad and Coles out just to relieve stress. Chad has only added to the nightmare by becoming a circus clown/ media whore. The Andre Smith fiasco must REALLY piss him off. I know I would be furious if our #1 pick, the next Willie Anderson, showed up like Smith.

I honestly can't imagine him wanting to come back to this team. Why would he want to? You are right, he isn't old at 31/32 next year but he has to know his career is being flushed down the toilet here and he is on the downside of his career. He has an ego just as every great player does. Nobody in football would blame him for asking for a trade except Bengals fans. I don't see him being a Munoz type and staying here after his playing days are over.

I do think the elbow injury took away arm strength. That should not surprise anyone based on the injury. He is still a very capable QB and in the right system can still kick ass. Just don't think we will get back to that level for a few years so the question still is what do we do or better yet what does he do?
[/quote]


that is one of the best posts i've read in a while. i appreciate it when someone speaks from their heart, and i took that from your post.

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='OneHeartBeat' timestamp='1291685057' post='948606']
Is that really all you can add to this debate? Lots of people have gone to games and posted their observations. I don't see where he claimed to be an expert at anything other than stating his opinion. If you think its retarted stupid shit-tell us why you think that? Even if Palmer is not the biggest problem on this team, you may need to consider moving him, for the right offer, b/c we have lots of holes to fill.
[/quote]

Look, I understand this is an "opinion" board, and when I think someone is posting a rational opinion, I don't mind telling you what I think, whether I agree or disagree. However, I think all of this "he can't throw the same" crap is just that, CRAP. The Bengals have invested a TON of money in Carson, and if it were a physical concern, that would find a way to fix it, physically. If you had a classic car that you had invested a lot of money in, you would not drive it with a bad master cylinder, because you wouldn't want to lose out on your investment.

Secondly, we don't have that many holes to fill, what we have is a lot of guys pressing and as a result, we are getting out of the proper fits. We have a lot of talent, but there is too much thinking going on, and not enough reacting. I also think that there have been so many close plays that have gone against us, that guys are consciously trying NOT to make a mistake, which generally leads to a mistake. I have said that at least a portion of this is coaching.

[|Numbers|]

It's not Carson, it is [b]PAUL ALEXANDER[/b]...

[b]FIRE PAUL ALEXANDER NOW...[/b]

[|SF2|]

[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1291768372' post='948852']
Look, I understand this is an "opinion" board, and when I think someone is posting a rational opinion, I don't mind telling you what I think, whether I agree or disagree. However, I think all of this "he can't throw the same" crap is just that, CRAP. The Bengals have invested a TON of money in Carson, and if it were a physical concern, that would find a way to fix it, physically. If you had a classic car that you had invested a lot of money in, you would not drive it with a bad master cylinder, because you wouldn't want to lose out on your investment.

Secondly, we don't have that many holes to fill, what we have is a lot of guys pressing and as a result, we are getting out of the proper fits. We have a lot of talent, but there is too much thinking going on, and not enough reacting. I also think that there have been so many close plays that have gone against us, that guys are consciously trying NOT to make a mistake, which generally leads to a mistake. I have said that at least a portion of this is coaching.
[/quote]
From what I was told, some of the doctor's wanted him to get Tommy John surgery and some said it would "heal" without it. My close friend is an orthopedic surgeon in Dayton and he has done the surgery many times. Basically, it will partially heal itself if it isn't torn too badly but it is unlikely is will be ever be 100%. It might be close but not 100%. And there is no way any fucking doctor on the Bengals was going to tell Carson what to do. It is comical to even suggest they have that ability. Carson simply chose the option that would get him back on the field the quickest hoping it would be almost as good as new. I don't blame him. He is still effective.

I never said he couldn't throw just that his passes don't have the same velocity as Brees and he puts A LOT of air on his longer passes. You don't have to throw bombs to be a damn good QB in the NFL. The Patriots have practically given up the long passing game in favor of a ball control offense. Nothing wrong with Brady just that Bellicheat thinks it will work better. Looks good so far.

Oh, we have a lot of holes to fill BTW. Not only on the d and o line but at LB, safety, and we are probably going to lose Chad, TO or both. Thats a lot of holes.

Whether Carson wants to get the snot knocked out of himself by hanging around the next 2 rebuilding years is yet to be seen.

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='CJandTO' timestamp='1291578382' post='947784']


2. Does it annoy you that carson doesnt get more animated during games, same goes for Marvin. I was watching highlights of brady, manning, brees, favre, matty ice, rogers, all those guys after like big tds or big plays will give like fist pumps or run down the field to give the wr a hug after the TD or chest bump or some sort of celebration. Carson just walks off to the side and points his finger in the air. Now there are times where it can be a good thing to not get too excited or too down, but I really feel like part of the problem with this team is they dont get pumped up enough and dont play with enough heart and I think that starts from the top with Marvin and Carson. (not saying those guys dont do everything they can to win, but I just think the lack of emotion they show on the field hurts the team). I want a quarterback who after a big play will celebrate a little with a fist pump or something to show the players and crowd that you are pumped up and stuff.


Just curious on others opinions.
[/quote]


I waited a little while to bring this up cause I hadnt watched the game and stuff.

But are you guys still going to tell me it doesnt make a difference when Carson is out there having fun, showing emotion, and celebrating a little.

He showed more emotion in the Chargers game then any game yet this season. After the bomb to jerome he was like jumping into his lineman and smiling and stuff. After his first TD to Jerome he was laughing and giving guys high fives. Usually this season and in sometimes in the past he just sticks his finger in the air.


I think it makes a big difference having your qb/leader showing emotion and having fun on the field. It helps other guys loosen up and just go out and play football. Id love to see that more out of Carson next year and in the future. I think it could really help this team.

[|kennethmw|]

I just wanted to bump this thread. Funny how some of the people that were talking about how poor Carson has played, how much arm strength he has lost, and how Kitnaesque he has become are some of the same people venting now that he wants a trade.