B.A.B. Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1328055610' post='1093347'] Are you talking about Doug Martin from Boise State? He is like a 3rd or 4th round pick. He played against a bunch of high school level defenses that were all spread out to defend Boise's passing attack and he still just averaged something like 4.5 per carry. The only time he played a decent run defense (Georgia) he got bitch slapped.[/quote] Did you not watch the Senior Bowl or the workouts or anything? The kid is a true talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 I think I like Wilson more than Martin. Wilson has more wiggle and just as much speed as Miller and has balance that is just a notch below Martin. I think if I'm taking a back in round 1 and TR isn't there, I'm going with Wilson. I don't know much about his injury history though. He's a little small at 205. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 And with the 21st pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, the Cincinnati Bengals choose... Doug Martin, Running Back, Boise State, Fuck Pittsburgh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASTYNATI Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1328055610' post='1093347'] Are you talking about Doug Martin from Boise State? He is like a 3rd or 4th round pick. He played against a bunch of high school level defenses that were all spread out to defend Boise's passing attack and he still just averaged something like 4.5 per carry. The only time he played a decent run defense (Georgia) he got bitch slapped. [/quote] I couldnt agree with you more. My Rankings: 1. Richardson 2. Miller 3. Wilson Im not interested in any other back in this class. earlier than the 4th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1328056458' post='1093348'] Fred, I don't mean to be an ass, but who gives a shit where he's rated by the "experts" if he can do the job? Most of the so called "experts" said Andy was a 3rd rd pick at best in a normal year. And I don't know how much you watched him, but he seems to be a pretty damn good player. [/quote] Where did I say anything about where the "experts" have him ranked. I watched him get punked by the Georgia defense and then looked at what he did agaisnt a bunch of weak defenses that were spread out to stop a pass first offense. What makes you think he is a "pretty damn good player"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='B.A.B.' timestamp='1328062775' post='1093358'] Did you not watch the Senior Bowl or the workouts or anything? The kid is a true talent. [/quote] I watched him get stuffed repeatedly against the only decent run defense he faced all year. He had something like 40 yards on 20 carries. What did he do in the Senior Bowl? **EDIT** 19 yards on 4 carries? That makes him a first round pick despite 13 games of "meh" against below average college defenses who were geared to stop a passing attack?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1328068201' post='1093372'] Where did I say anything about where the "experts" have him ranked. I watched him get punked by the Georgia defense and then looked at what he did agaisnt a bunch of weak defenses that were spread out to stop a pass first offense. What makes you think he is a "pretty damn good player"? [/quote] Unreal balance, keeps good speed when cutting, catches effortlessly, and has the speed to break one for a TD every time he touches the ball, he's very strong and seems to be a very high character guy. What is not to like? He's the perfect fit for our offense. I hate hearing "he ran against sub par competition". Well, who gets better recruits... Boise State or Georgia? I bet Georgia's defense, player talent wise, is rated far and beyond that of Boise State's offensive line. You'd think Andy Dalton ended that madness months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1328068609' post='1093376'] Unreal balance, keeps good speed when cutting, catches effortlessly, and has the speed to break one for a TD every time he touches the ball, he's very strong and seems to be a very high character guy. What is not to like? You'd think Andy Dalton ended that madness months ago. [/quote] What's not to like? How about average to below average production? If he hhad half of the skills you claim he does he would have put up monster numbers against weak defenses spread out to stop a pass first offense, And to compare Martin's production to Andy Dalton's is absurd. Dalton was highly productive in college. Martin was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1328068923' post='1093378'] What's not to like? How about average to below average production? If he hhad half of the skills you claim he does he would have put up monster numbers against weak defenses spread out to stop a pass first offense, And to compare Martin's production to Andy Dalton's is absurd. Dalton was highly productive in college. Martin was not. [/quote] I wouldn't say he wasn't highly productive. In the three years he played, he scored 47 total touchdowns and had almost 3800 yards. Lamar Miller only had 2000 and 16 touchdowns in his two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 You watched a WAC offense against an SEC defense. What are you expecting? Adrian Peterson isn't going to gain any yards behind an offensive line that can't block. You don't agree that Martin has all those tools I listed? When a guy gets 20 carries and only 40-50 yards, it's not always his fault. Look at how he moves when he has the ball. Look at how fluid he is in his movements and how natural running and cutting is to him. It sounds like you're a #'s guy. If you're basing your judgement off that, fine, but you're going to be surprised as shit when the dude goes in the first or second round. Your fourth round suggestion is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='JC' timestamp='1328069292' post='1093379'] I wouldn't say he wasn't highly productive. In the three years he played, he scored 47 total touchdowns and had almost 3800 yards. Lamar Miller only had 2000 and 16 touchdowns in his two years. [/quote] But Miller played in the almighty ACC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, I'm sick of hearing this conference crap. Martin > Miller IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1328069543' post='1093380'] You watched a WAC offense against an SEC defense. What are you expecting? Adrian Peterson isn't going to gain any yards behind an offensive line that can't block. [/quote] I'm a numbers guy? You have to be joking. If you had actually [b]WATCHED[/b] Martin play a game like I did you would realize that Boise State was not some weak offense that got bullied by a more talented SEC team. In fact they BEAT GEORGIE BY 2 TDS. Now tell em exactly which games you watched Martin plap that impressed you so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1328070099' post='1093382'] I'm a numbers guy? You have to be joking. If you had actually [b]WATCHED[/b] Martin play a game like I did you would realize that Boise State was not some weak offense that got bullied by a more talented SEC team. In fact they BEAT GEORGIE BY 2 TDS. Now tell em exactly which games you watched Martin plap that impressed you so much. [/quote] I didn't watch any. I watch videos on YouTube (which by the way, some of them show every run. In those cases you gwt just as much out of the video as you would just watching the game, if not more). You can disregard my call on Martin because of it, but I find his skillset something crazy good that can't be denied. I don't need to watch a game against Georgia or any other live game to know he's a top talent in this draft. Unless some freak injury happens to the guy, I'll never post again if he's drafted in the 4th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1328069717' post='1093381'] But Miller played in the almighty ACC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, I'm sick of hearing this conference crap. Martin > Miller IMO [/quote] You may hate to hear it, but it is the truth. I didn't see Miller play this year, but he played against a lot more tough defenses than Martin, he played on a team that did not have a dangerous pass game to take pressure off of him like Martin did, and he still averaged more yards per game and almost a FULL YARD more per carry than Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1328070529' post='1093383'], I'll never post again if he's drafted in the 4th round. [/quote] He may not drop to the 4th round, but I was responding to someone who said he was a [b]FIRST ROUND[/b] talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 I find a 4th round prediction laughable. I can't accept it. That's crazy talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1328070575' post='1093384'] You may hate to hear it, but it is the truth. I didn't see Miller play this year, but he played against a lot more tough defenses than Martin, he played on a team that did not have a dangerous pass game to take pressure off of him like Martin did, and he still averaged more yards per game and almost a FULL YARD more per carry than Martin. [/quote] I think he has a much better skillset suited for the NFL than Miller does. Martin has good shiftiness to go along with great balance and a solid frame, while Miller has track speed..and that's about it. I think I'm going to vomit profusely if we use #21 on Lamar Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 I'm sure Miller also is running behind numerous 4 and 5 star recruits while Doug Martin isn't. It goes both ways. While the defenses you're going against aren't as good as other conferences, the guys you're working with on offense aren't high caliber either. Martin on Miami would do just as well as Miller. Why wouldn't he? Take the teams he played out of the equation. Take his physical attributes and the way he plays, runs, etc and put that against any RB in the draft. Outside of breaking tackles to Richardson, which no one holds a chance, he compares to any back in the draft and for the most part compares favorably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.A.B. Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Bro. Miller was a fast dude. Sometimes in college that's all you need to be. That's pretty much his game. Did you watch Martin's play against Georgia really? Did you see the amount of times there was just absolutely no running room? You basing his skills off of just that one game is absolutely 'tarded. And a game where there were almost zero plays where he didn't have to dodge a defender in the backfield. Just look at it. Every one of his runs from the game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB0CUgzUtJg I don't know if you're playing devil's advocate or something, but the kid obviously has skills. All the reports from the senior bowl show it. He is a NFL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1328070764' post='1093386'] I find a 4th round prediction laughable. I can't accept it. [b]That's crazy talk.[/b] [/quote] that's because it is. I don't think Martin's a first round pick like you do, but there's no way he's still sitting there on day 3 unless an injury or character concern pops up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PatternMaster Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Here's my ranking: 1. Trent Richardson 2. Doug Martin 3. David Wilson 4. Lamar MIller 5. Chris Polk 6. Terrance Ganaway I would take either Richardson or Martin in the first, trade up to get Richardson or stay pat at 21 and get Martin. After that I wouldn't draft a rb until round 3, I would take Ganaway anywhere from rounds 3-6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PatternMaster Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1328100189' post='1093407'] that's because it is. I don't think Martin's a first round pick like you do, but there's no way he's still sitting there on day 3 unless an injury or character concern pops up. [/quote] Do you think he's the second best rb in the draft, or better yet the 2nd best fit for the Bengals..after Richardson of course. If so then you could justify taking him in the first round because it's a situation where need and talent match, plus he's a high character kid with a great work ethic, someone you can trust will represent your franchise properly..which gives you another reason to draft him in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1328106702' post='1093424'] [b]Do you think he's the second best rb in the draft, [/b]or better yet the 2nd best fit for the Bengals..after Richardson of course. If so then you could justify taking him in the first round because it's a situation where need and talent match, plus he's a high character kid with a great work ethic, someone you can trust will represent your franchise properly..which gives you another reason to draft him in the first round. [/quote] to the bolded, its tough to say. There's things I like about Wilson, Polk, and Martin that could all make them the 2nd best RB in the draft IMO. Wilson has elite speed. Polk is an excellent receiving back and a bitch to tackle. Martin may not be the best at everything you want, but is probably the best combination of all of them. It comes down to what teams will covet most. You can't draft just on talent math and need. There has to be a more realistic process to it. You don't take Martin at #21 just because you like him when there's an extremely realistic chance that you could trade down 10-15 spots and still get him, and pick up another 1-2 draft picks. You have to stick to your draft grades as a team, and not just pick a guy because you like him and need the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PatternMaster Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1328108031' post='1093432'] to the bolded, its tough to say. There's things I like about Wilson, Polk, and Martin that could all make them the 2nd best RB in the draft IMO. Wilson has elite speed. Polk is an excellent receiving back and a bitch to tackle. Martin may not be the best at everything you want, but is probably the best combination of all of them. It comes down to what teams will covet most. You can't draft just on talent math and need. There has to be a more realistic process to it. You don't take Martin at #21 just because you like him when there's an extremely realistic chance that you could trade down 10-15 spots and still get him, and pick up another 1-2 draft picks. You have to stick to your draft grades as a team, and not just pick a guy because you like him and need the position. [/quote] Ok, say ol man Mikey eats a bad rueben from Izzy's and has a life changing moment, he decides to take the most intelligent poster from go-bengals.com to be the new GM of the Bengals.. Obviously you would get the job, who do you have ranked as your #2 rb in the draft? And if it's Martin do you think you will be able to trade down and still get him? Imo, Martin fits our team better than any other back in the draft not named Trent Richardson. He can get you the tough yards but still be a threat to pop a long one, while also being able to catch the ball in the flat and make guys miss. He can be the 3 down back this team needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1328109652' post='1093443'] And if it's Martin do you think you will be able to trade down and still get him? [/quote] yes. And if by chance I don't, I happily take my extra 2nd rounder and take one of the other backs. We all have guys we prefer and there are skills some do better than others, but there's not a big difference between backs 2-5 in this draft. I'd take Wilson (or polk, or even miller) and a 2nd round pick over Martin every day of the week and twice on draft day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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