Paris

[Jamie_B]

I posted this on my Facebook (though I used a newer video because I couldnt find a youtube video from 2 days ago when the riots broke out again, this is a few months old)

As I am saddened by the violence in Paris, and hold that answering it with violence will only contribute to the downward spiral of humanity and our ability to solve problems without resorting to becoming the very barbarians we are angered at.

But then I look at this video of Greeks rioting against Austerity, and if I am being honest there is a part of me that is glad to see this kind of violence. Because throughout history the only changes that have come to serve the people have come through violence, even Dr. King who is my personal hero I wonder if people had not been violent to him, would it have put the shock into the good white folks to stand up with him. Every revolution I can think of, to include the French Revolution was violent. Even the labor movements which I am a supporter of had strains of violence.

I sometimes wonder if violence is the only thing the elite understand and are willing to change for? Must we threaten them with it in order for justice for the common man to prevail? I hope not but I am also soberly afraid that is the case.

My Christian values tell me violence is not the answer, but I am a sinful creature very full of pride that sometimes allows my sinful nature to fantasize it, even cheer it on with righteous indignation.

It is a cognitive dissonance that I hold is true in all of us, our internal fight with our simple nature to answer complex problems with simple answers vs. the ability to rise up against the worst in ourselves.

So when I see posts about answering the attack in Paris with more violence, I understand it, however I am reminded of Neitzsche when he said "He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster."

It is not an easy answer to answer, but it is the only one that will not create more violence. Will not create more problems.

[T-Dub]

I'd suggest that the Patriot Act & unjustified war in Iraq did more damage to us than al-Qaeda. That a misguided overreatction was their goal, in fact. 

IDK if that answers your question but I don't think there's a military solution.

[Jamie_B]

I dont think there is a military solution either. I'm not going to pretend I know if there is a solution, whole thing is FUBAR.

[Homer_Rice]

I'm thinking that a few courageous Frenchmen with their equivalent of CCW could have whipped out their big nine-inch pistols and nipped this in the bud.

(Just anticipating what I suspect some among the clown circus of Republican candidates will suggest. It can be a campaign theme: Cowboy Justice Does Foreign Policy.)

[Jamie_B]

I'm thinking that a few courageous Frenchmen with their equivalent of CCW could have whipped out their big nine-inch pistols and nipped this in the bud.

(Just anticipating what I suspect some among the clown circus of Republican candidates will suggest. It can be a campaign theme: Cowboy Justice Does Foreign Policy.)

They are nothing if not predictable. 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/11/twitter-paris-attacks

[steggyD]

Homer, way to go. You used the idea that someone else might politicize the tragedy, to politicize the tragedy. If that makes any sense.

But in the end, not that I've ever been in any of these situations, and I hope I never do. And I have no idea how I would react, but, hundreds of people versus eight. How do they keep wining? I would hope that I would risk my life to try and thwart the terrorist, but maybe that's because I have suicidal tendencies. Or maybe I'll run because I want to see the Bengals win a Super Bowl. Lucky for me, I live in small town, Central NY. I doubt anything exciting is happening here anytime soon.

 

Back to Paris ... I fear the effects of this attack, especially if they pull off another attack or two, as ISIS threatened. 

[steggyD]

Oh, so we are going to politicize the moment ...

 

http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/13/liberal-activists-upset-paris-terrorist-attacks-are-getting-attention-not-missouri/

[Jamie_B]

Oh, so we are going to politicize the moment ...

 

http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/13/liberal-activists-upset-paris-terrorist-attacks-are-getting-attention-not-missouri/

No offense Steggy but this is a false equivalency, 3 random morons on twitter do not equal major journalists and policy makers.

[T-Dub]

I'm thinking that a few courageous Frenchmen with their equivalent of CCW could have whipped out their big nine-inch pistols and nipped this in the bud.

(Just anticipating what I suspect some among the clown circus of Republican candidates will suggest. It can be a campaign theme: Cowboy Justice Does Foreign Policy.)

IDK about all that, two CCW guys nearly shot each other during the Giffords assassination attempt in Tucson.  OTOH I can't ignore the fact that ISIS shits were armed with weapons that are illegal here as well as in France.  Banning anything that can be turned into that would be fine with me if we didn't already have our own domestic terror cells operating more or less in the open.  Whose rosters will no doubt grow as a result of this attack, I should add. Yay more xenophobia & fear & hate.  

 

I dont think there is a military solution either. I'm not going to pretend I know if there is a solution, whole thing is FUBAR.

 

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth, more a reference to the impulse for revenge.  Revenge would be a Hooters in Raqqa. We've bombed and bombed some more.  Maps of the region are drawn in pencil. Speaking of things I can't ignore, there's our own role in stirring the pot over the years. Cold War through De- Ba'athification.  We might've trained one of these SOB's  so I don't think the refugees are to blame. Possibly the worst part of this attack is that at least one of the mfers looks to have infiltrated through Greece.  Europe closing the doors will kill far more people. If we're going to send them back at least arm & outfit them.  

 

[steggyD]

OK, Jamie, but do the gun control Democrats not politicize every school shooting? This happens from both sides, and is pretty much expected. Major catastrophes bring the journalists and politicians out of the woodwork. Let's not act like one side is better than the other in this matter.

[T-Dub]

When a bunch of innocent people get shot I think it's right to discuss how the shooters got access to their weapons.  Same for foreign policy & our wars in the region when it's an extremist Islamic terrorist cell.  It's worth examining facts, doubly so if they offend someone's belief system.  Ugly truth is the best kind of truth because not much else will sway a body that's already decided.  

[steggyD]

I agree to a point. I just hate it when it turns into decisive politics. It should turn into a combined effort solution.

The truth is that ISIS is a problem. Who created it, and how it was created is less of an issue than how we deal with it. Of course, we should look at the history as well because we don't want to recreate the problem. But ISIS should not be allowed to form a nation. Look at the treatment of Christians, Westerners, homosexuals, etc. This problem needs a solution, now.

[Homer_Rice]

It's all political, steggy.

Do Not Ask Western Leadership To Fix Anything

[Jason]

I dont think there is a military solution either. I'm not going to pretend I know if there is a solution, whole thing is FUBAR.

When radicals that believe killing the infidels is their way to paradise attack you, you have 2 options.

1. Convert to Islam

2. Fight back.

[Jamie_B]

When radicals that believe killing the infidels is their way to paradise attack you, you have 2 options.

1. Convert to Islam

2. Fight back.

WE dont have to fight back, there are plenty already doing that. Further there are ways to fight back with out resorting to violence or boots on the ground. The best way to do so imo is going after the banks that hold ISIS money.

[Jamie_B]

[Jason]

WE dont have to fight back, there are plenty already doing that. Further there are ways to fight back with out resorting to violence or boots on the ground. The best way to do so imo is going after the banks that hold ISIS money.

We do when we are attacked.

Asf or going after the money, that is a good step.  But what do you do if the bank that has the money is in Iran or Syria?

[Jamie_B]

We do when we are attacked.

Asf or going after the money, that is a good step.  But what do you do if the bank that has the money is in Iran or Syria?

We weren't attacked the French were.

And if ISIS is as international as they like to think they are those banks are not just in Syria

[Jamie_B]

http://www.dylanratigan.com/2015/11/16/us-needs-to-get-real-with-saudis/

[Khatmandude]

ISIS, or daesh as they should be called.....have killed more Muslims than anyone else.  They're led by a guy whose name used to be Simon Elliot, who spent over a year in Israeli intelligence and has met with John McCain many years ago, documented photo proof of this.  Daesh hasn't attacked Israel, Saudi Arabia, they haven't TOUCHED the pipiline going from Iraq to Israel, nothing against Qatar, none of the US Puppet regimes are being attacked.  There is evidence of western collaboration with daesh.  Captives of daesh have stated they don't own 1 single copy of the Quran, they can't recite any verses from the Quran, they don't know how to pray, yet we're calling them Muslim?   Lack of critical thinking skills is going to be the end for our society.  It's already well on its way, in case you haven't been paying attention.  

It baffles me how peoples' minds could be manipulated so easily.   The world is but a stage....

We've lost our humanity, hell, watch a video or two from Black Friday sales for proof positive.  People have lost their damn minds.  Speaking of Black Friday....why does it have to be called that?!  #AllFridaysMatter

[Khatmandude]

Not to mention, but they have stated in tweets (also hilarious....a terrorist organization being allowed to use twitter for their propaganda but they'll shut your twitter account down immediately if you violate terms) that they want to destroy the Kaaba.  What kind of "Muslim" would want to destroy the Kaaba?  They've killed over 100,000 Muslims....a large majority of their victims are Muslim.  

They've also stated in tweets that they have no religion and that Abu Baker Al Baghdadi (real name Simon Elliot) is their Lord.   Yet the western media will call them Muslim.  Why?  Question begs to be asked right?  

Who am I kidding? This isn't important stuff, let's get back to real issues like how is Lamar Odom doing? 

Oh yeah, Faceboook too.  "ISIS"/Daesh fighters have facebook pages they post on as well!   Facebook shut down BJ's account for posting political stuff yet here is ISIS with a Facebook page talking about killing everyone that's allowed to stay up no problem.  

WTF is wrong with people?  

[T-Dub]

Hey Khat if you could provde some links I'd be interested in reading more.  Would hardly be the first time a US-backed insurgent group slipped its leash.  Excellent point you make there re: the scale of their social media presence.

 

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but Steve Coll's "Ghost Wars" is a great book on how we used Pakistan to inadvertently create al-Qaeda by proxy.

[Khatmandude]

[T-Dub]

Those are indeed red ovals.  Context?