Retired Numbers

[|High School Harry|]

17 minutes ago, Bleeds Orange said:

 

Yeah, as has been said many times, it's hard to compare players from different eras. They were playing a different game back then. But we can compare them to those who played at the same time, and Anderson was one of the best passers of his era. More physical talent than Hall of Famer Terry Bradshaw, but perhaps without the leadership abilities or swagger that led to winning teams. Then again, ol' Terry had some of the best players in history around him every year and they shot steroids into each other's asses, so. 

 

Ricky Cobb put it this way:

 

 

Pride of the Cincinnati blue collar suburb of Silverton, Purcel High School (all boys Catholic)

[UncleEarl]

On 8/6/2024 at 12:25 AM, Bleeds Orange said:

I still can't believe they let Dalton have 14.

 

I'm not big on retiring numbers either.  I do think if a player would want to wear 14 or 78 they should have to ask Anderson or Munoz for their blessing.  Didn't Dalton ask Anderson?

[UncleEarl]

11 hours ago, GoBengals said:

its tough with so few numbers, say roster settle at 65, there are 100 numbers (or 101?) with 0 and 00(i think) available. so i guess a team could in theory retire 35 numbers for regular season.. but it may get messy with position specific number groups running out, like if you retire 8 linemen numbers youre fucked.

so i think not retiring numbers makes sense. or maybe add extra criteria, like a hall of famer + superbowl winner on your team can be retired? would leave teams with no SB wins with no retired numbers though.

 

 

Now some andy dalton hate and some ken anderson polite slander....

 

Andy dalton is a fucking clown that personally held back a franchise from several playoff wins.

 

and ken anderson is before my time, but lit it up in a non-passing era. if i recall he averaged less than 14 completions per game. and roughly 23 attempts. barely a TD per game, and nearly a 1:1 TD:INT ratio. and 171 yards per game.

 

he stopped playing when i was about 3 years old so i dont have person watching experience to lean on here. but that leads me to not really care about ken anderson... right or wrong, im fine with those who adore him, just not something that went down in my lifetime and its not impressive on paper stats wise. 

 

andy still has never won a playoff game. he is a bum.

 

 

 

I get that when you look at the stats Anderson doesn't look that impressive.  If you were around you understand a few things that made him special. 

 

First of all, he was one of the most accurate passers ever.  He put the ball where he wanted.  If you ever see some highlights watch how he threw a swing pass.  On the money in front of the player every time.  Modern QBs, even those who are very accurate, struggle with that pass.  If you want to counter with how completion percentages are so much higher now, I would suggest you consider what DBs were allowed to do to receivers back then. 

 

Second, he played on some of the least talented Bengals teams ever.  Yes, there was the lost decade, but the four years after Paul Brown retired were just as putrid.  Anderson got pummeled regularly.  Once he had some talent around him you see what he did.  Only QB to win a passing title in the running era and passing era which started around 1980 with "Air Coryell" and Bill Walsh's offense. 

 

Anderson was a great one.  Burrow may well surpass him (I hope), but Anderson deserves a lot of respect.

[claptonrocks]

1 hour ago, Bleeds Orange said:

 

Yeah, as has been said many times, it's hard to compare players from different eras. They were playing a different game back then. But we can compare them to those who played at the same time, and Anderson was one of the best passers of his era. More physical talent than Hall of Famer Terry Bradshaw, but perhaps without the leadership abilities or swagger that led to winning teams. Then again, ol' Terry had some of the best players in history around him every year and they shot steroids into each other's asses, so. 

 

Ricky Cobb put it this way:

 

 

Roger Staubach was a great leader..

Liked him at Navy and serving his

country 4 yrs before entering NFL..

He was and is still a legend ..

 

Born raised and graduated in Cincinnati..

 

 

[-GoBengals-]

1 hour ago, Bleeds Orange said:

 

Yeah, as has been said many times, it's hard to compare players from different eras. They were playing a different game back then. But we can compare them to those who played at the same time, and Anderson was one of the best passers of his era. More physical talent than Hall of Famer Terry Bradshaw, but perhaps without the leadership abilities or swagger that led to winning teams. Then again, ol' Terry had some of the best players in history around him every year and they shot steroids into each other's asses, so. 

 

Ricky Cobb put it this way:

 

 

 

yea the glossing over of the steelers steroid era is crazy, especially when all of thier hearts started exploding in the last decade. everyone just ignores it.

 

1 hour ago, High School Harry said:

Pride of the Cincinnati blue collar suburb of Silverton, Purcel High School (all boys Catholic)

 

i think this plays a decent part in it as well. sort of like griffey jr, larkin, etc.. obviously greats, but being local gives it extra support.

 

18 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

 

I'm not big on retiring numbers either.  I do think if a player would want to wear 14 or 78 they should have to ask Anderson or Munoz for their blessing.  Didn't Dalton ask Anderson?

 

i like this, but it does put the player in an odd spot, if he says yes to a guy who is a bust, next time he says no, and guy is great and you almost start beefs with guys who should just appreciate eachother.

 

8 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

 

I get that when you look at the stats Anderson doesn't look that impressive.  If you were around you understand a few things that made him special. 

 

First of all, he was one of the most accurate passers ever.  He put the ball where he wanted.  If you ever see some highlights watch how he threw a swing pass.  On the money in front of the player every time.  Modern QBs, even those who are very accurate, struggle with that pass.  If you want to counter with how completion percentages are so much higher now, I would suggest you consider what DBs were allowed to do to receivers back then. 

 

Second, he played on some of the least talented Bengals teams ever.  Yes, there was the lost decade, but the four years after Paul Brown retired were just as putrid.  Anderson got pummeled regularly.  Once he had some talent around him you see what he did.  Only QB to win a passing title in the running era and passing era which started around 1980 with "Air Coryell" and Bill Walsh's offense. 

 

Anderson was a great one.  Burrow may well surpass him (I hope), but Anderson deserves a lot of respect.

 

There is certainly something to be said for being the first to be good/great, all of us Gen X and younger eras are then left wondering, how much of that was coaching and play calling that was innovative, but then you turn around and look at brady and manning and favre, and we cant pretend they were great because they magically had 7-8 great coordinators. The great players have a way of making plays work and players around them better. 

 

Im happy to celebrate anything success based from cincinnati. I just have no tie to Anderson from personal experience. and i hate andy dalton so the #14 has only negative vibes for me.

[AmishBengalFan]

I kinda like that this one has been unofficially pre-retired, as it's the only single-digit uni not ever assigned by the Stripes.....

 

[KA14_HOF]

Namath, Griese, Staubach, Stabler, Tarkenton, Bradshaw & Fouts were all contemporaries of Anderson.

 

Bradshaw had 9 Hall of Fame teammates for a cumulative 92 seasons.

Stabler had 17 HoF teammates for 69 seasons.

Staubach had 14 HoF teammates for 49 seasons.

Tarkenton had 6 HoF teammates for 44 seasons.

Griese had 5 HoF teammates for 41 seasons.

Fouts had 5 HoF teammates for 29 seasons.

Anderson had 3 HoF teammates for 21 seasons. (Riley-12, Joiner-4, Munoz-5)

Namath had 2 HoF teammates for 13 seasons. (not counting 1977 with Rams)

 

Bradshaw also benefited from having a Hall of Fame head coach for 13 seasons, coaching him AND ALL OF HIS TEAMMATES up.

Griese had a HoF HC for 10 seasons.

Namath had a HoF HC for 9 seasons.

Fouts had a HoF HC for 8 1/2 seasons.

Staubach had a HoF HC for 8 seasons.

Tarkenton had a HoF HC for 7 seasons.

Stabler had a HoF HC for 6 seasons.

Anderson had a HoF HC for 4 seasons.

 

Yet Anderson's numbers are equal to or better than virtually every one of his contemporaries. Stack these 8 QBs above up against the 34 other QBs whose careers significantly overlapped Anderson's (e.g. Roman Gabriel, Neil Lomax, Mike Phipps, Billy Kilmer, Lynn Dickey, Jim Plunkett, etc.) and see how each one ranks in 11 statistical categories - Completiion %, Passing Yards, Yards Per Attempt, TD Passes, Passer Rating, Rush Yards, Rushing TDs, TDs-to-INTs Ratio, Interception %, Turnovers Per Game. Here's their average ranking among this group of 42 QBs:

 

QUARTERBACK - AVG. RANK

1. Ken Anderson - 5.2

2. Fran Tarkenton - 6.2

3. Roger Staubach - 10.0

4. Dan Fouts - 13.3

5. Bob Griese - 16.4

6. Terry Bradshaw - 17.4

7. Ken Stabler - 20.4

8. Joe Namath - 28.8

 

Even if you remove the Rush Yards & Rushing TDs, their average rankings are:

 

QUARTERBACK - AVG. RANK

1. Ken Anderson - 5.0

2. Fran Tarkenton - 7.2

3. Dan Fouts - 10.6

4. Roger Staubach - 11.0

5. Bob Griese - 14.4

6. Ken Stabler - 15.9

7. Terry Bradshaw - 20.4

8. Joe Namath - 27.1

 

In other words, a very strong case can be made that Ken Anderson was the best QB of his generation. He did more with less than all of the other HOF QBs had. If Namath, Bradshaw, Griese, Stabler and Fouts in particular are in the Hall of Fame, it's a joke for Ken Anderson to not be.

[KA14_HOF]

Two of these QBs are in the Hall of Fame, one is not:

 

QB       GP   COMP%   QPR   TD/INT   INT%

QB #1  192   59.31%     81.9   1.23         3.58

QB #2  181   58.83%     80.2   1.05         4.32

QB #3  168   51.91%     70.9   1.01         5.38

 

If you wanted to build the best team possible, which QB would you chose?

 

Who's who?

QB #1 - Ken Anderson

QB #2 - Dan Fouts

QB #3 - Terry Bradshaw