Ted Ginn JR?

[NASTYNATI]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='475886' date='Apr 22 2007, 01:12 PM']and just how do you think you've been proven right on that?[/quote]

how many games did he play last season? oh and in two seasons how many sacks does he have? there is no need for arguement here on the Pollack issue. the dream is over fella, the dude will never play again and if he does it will be at a sub-par level. The guy broke his neck making a tackle, do you really think he will be able to blast someone running at him again with 100% effort? the fear of that will never escape his mind.

[bengaled]

[quote name='NASTYNATI' post='475884' date='Apr 22 2007, 01:09 PM']do a search, from day one I called that David Pollack was a bum and that he was a wasted pick. I got flamed then but have the last laugh now.[/quote]

that doesn't prove you know what the fuck you're talking about. pollack's career was off and running fine, despite the necessary time adjustment it takes when a guy goes thru a position change. just because the guy suffered a freak injury.

and to use a word like bum to describe dave pollack, just shows your lack of class. it's a shame your parents didn't raise you better than that... or or if they did, that you disregarded the importance of those lessons.

[Guest Bengals1181]

[quote name='NASTYNATI' post='475891' date='Apr 22 2007, 01:18 PM']how many games did he play last season? oh and in two seasons how many sacks does he have? there is no need for arguement here on the Pollack issue. the dream is over fella, the dude will never play again and if he does it will be at a sub-par level. The guy broke his neck making a tackle, do you really think he will be able to blast someone running at him again with 100% effort? the fear of that will never escape his mind.[/quote]


first off, who the hell are you to say what Pollack thinks or doesn't think.


Nothing in your post shows that he is a bum. But hey, if you want to pretend you're cool that badly, go right ahead.

[MrOrange1219]

About drafting Ginn...

What does it matter if he is a "game breaker" and boosts the Bengals offense? Let's pretend that he makes them a top-5 or top-3 offense some how. What would that help considering the defense will STILL be in the bottom third of the league?

And don't give me the "look at the Colts" line. That defense underperformed all season, and came alive in the playoffs. I don't see the Bengals having the potential to do that right now.

On the other hand, how many games did the Bengals lose because they couldn't stop the other team on third and long? Weren't there a few games when the other team managed to get a first down on 13 of 16 third downs? Taking a suitable CB would have to help that aspect of the game, which in turn would give the Bengals an extra win or two (which last year would've put the Bengals in the playoffs - an extra WR wouldn't have helped that much...)

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='NASTYNATI' post='475884' date='Apr 22 2007, 12:09 PM']and for the record "I WAS WRONG ABOUT PALMER" for those of you that have been here long enough to remember.[/quote]


That alone should have taught you to shut up, or at least taught everyone else to disregard you hating
on anyone else . . .

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='MrOrange1219' post='475911' date='Apr 22 2007, 12:57 PM']About drafting Ginn...

What does it matter if he is a "game breaker" and boosts the Bengals offense? Let's pretend that he makes them a top-5 or top-3 offense some how. What would that help considering the defense will STILL be in the bottom third of the league?

And don't give me the "look at the Colts" line. That defense underperformed all season, and came alive in the playoffs. I don't see the Bengals having the potential to do that right now.

On the other hand, how many games did the Bengals lose because they couldn't stop the other team on third and long? Weren't there a few games when the other team managed to get a first down on 13 of 16 third downs? Taking a suitable CB would have to help that aspect of the game, which in turn would give the Bengals an extra win or two (which last year would've put the Bengals in the playoffs - an extra WR wouldn't have helped that much...)[/quote]


So you think a 1st round rookie is going to change all that by himself ?


Fact is the Defense was banged up and/or missing key players.
Players that weren`t meant to be starters, were starters.
Those players will be better than they were last year.
Players that didn`t play last season, will play this season.
I think the Defense will be better than last years, even if they
didn`t draft a single Defensive player, much less one in the 1st round.

I wouldn`t be upset if the Bengals drafted Ginn. He could help 2 parts of the TEAM,
Special Teams and the Offense or Defense. Good points for drafting him have already
been made in this thread . . .

[Palmer4HOF]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='475915' date='Apr 22 2007, 02:04 PM']So you think a 1st round rookie is going to change all that by himself ?
Fact is the Defense was banged up and/or missing key players.
Players that weren`t meant to be starters, were starters.
Those players will be better than they were last year.
Players that didn`t play last season, will play this season.
I think the Defense will be better than last years, even if they
didn`t draft a single Defensive player, much less one in the 1st round.

I wouldn`t be upset if the Bengals drafted Ginn. He could help 2 parts of the TEAM,
Special Teams and the Offense or Defense. Good points for drafting him have already
been made in this thread . . .[/quote]

I was just about to post the same thing (and I've stated these beliefs before).

Everyone keeps saying how we need to take defense to improve our defense, but are there any game changers there at 18? I know of a gamechanger named Ted Ginn Jr. that SHOULD be there at 18. Now I'm not saying the Bengals should take him but if the value at defense isn't there, then I see no reason why we shouldn't either trade down or take Ted Ginn.

People keep saying draft Willis, Revis, any LB, lineman, etc but will they realistically be there?

[scharm]

You don't pass up play makers. Unless every bengal fan completely locked into taking defense is quite OK in a possibility of drafting a defender like Brian Simmons over an impact players like Moss.

Hopefully they'll be looking at an impact defender that dropped vs a WR.

[Guest BengalBacker]

[quote name='NASTYNATI' post='475884' date='Apr 22 2007, 01:09 PM']do a search, from day one I called that David Pollack was a bum and that he was a wasted pick. I got flamed then but have the last laugh now.

and for the record "I WAS WRONG ABOUT PALMER" for those of you that have been here long enough to remember.[/quote]


Holden McHock immortalized it in his sig.

[quote]QUOTE(NASTYNATI @ Nov 24 2004, 01:40 AM) [u]

we need someone that can scramble and read the defense along with his 2nd and 3rd recievers.... palmer isnt that man nor will he ever be period![/b]

it didnt happen then and i dont think it will now! he is another fluke and i would hope that if this indeed proves correct you will take your serving of humble pie along with a side of crow like a man bung!

btw. i tried my hardest to lay off palmer... but that mo fo sucks![/quote]

[Guest A-Men-HouseofPain]

[quote name='scharm' post='475919' date='Apr 22 2007, 02:18 PM']You don't pass up play makers. Unless every bengal fan completely locked into taking defense is quite OK in a possibility of drafting a defender like Brian Simmons over an impact players like Moss.

Hopefully they'll be looking at an impact defender that dropped vs a WR.[/quote]
did u just compare ginn to randy moss? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] i hope i read that wrong.

[JC]

We got a stud at 24? (i think) last year...why couldn't we do the same this year 6 spots ahead. If Keiwan is still nickel corner for this team we can easily upgrade.

[MrOrange1219]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='475915' date='Apr 22 2007, 02:04 PM']So you think a 1st round rookie is going to change all that by himself ?
Fact is the Defense was banged up and/or missing key players.
Players that weren`t meant to be starters, were starters.
Those players will be better than they were last year.
Players that didn`t play last season, will play this season.
I think the Defense will be better than last years, even if they
didn`t draft a single Defensive player, much less one in the 1st round.

I wouldn`t be upset if the Bengals drafted Ginn. He could help 2 parts of the TEAM,
Special Teams and the Offense or Defense. Good points for drafting him have already
been made in this thread . . .[/quote]
Yes, actually, I do.

If the Bengals draft Houston, Revis or Hall, and he ends up as a third down nickleback at most, I think the Bengals will be better than last season.

And I think getting a CB that can help stop the opposing offense on third down will do more for the Bengals than padding the WR corp.

Just my opinion, though...

[NASTYNATI]

[quote name='bengaled' post='475903' date='Apr 22 2007, 01:42 PM']that doesn't prove you know what the fuck you're talking about. pollack's career was off and running fine, despite the necessary time adjustment it takes when a guy goes thru a position change. just because the guy suffered a freak injury.

and to use a word like bum to describe dave pollack, just shows your lack of class. it's a shame your parents didn't raise you better than that... or or if they did, that you disregarded the importance of those lessons.[/quote]

What the hell are you talking about? what does class or my parents have to do with anything? Pollack is a bum, he was a bum before the injury and has never proven to be worth a number 17 pick. show me the numbers that prove otherwise and Ill eat my helping of crow just as I did with Palmer. I was upset with the move to Palmer when Kitna led this team to its first non losing season in god knows how many years. I was more upset with the fact that we might be facing yet another losing season with a first year QB than anything. I spoke too soon and ive ate my crow on numerous occasions.

Oldschooler you say that its nearly impossible for any one player on defense where we are picking to make an impact? look at what thurman did his rookie season? how about madieu williams? its very possible for a player to step in and make an immediate impact. however i do agree that if injury plagues this team again next season no one player can help us win.

If we draft Ted Ginn at 18 and he proves his worth I will say so and will retract all previous negative comments. But only if he comes to Cincinnati and becomes a Bengal will I do so. I think he's overrated and there is nothing wrong with that. Im sure there are tons of Michigan/Miami players out there that you buckeye fans think are overrated so i guess i dont see what the big deal is.

Its okay for everyone here to bash the rest of the leagues players, but when the spotlight turns to one of our Beloved Bengals the panties get all bunched up and people get defensive. whats really sad is, some of you are getting all riled up over a guy that wont even be on the board when we pick. This is simply another case of the Buckeye and Hurricane homers going at it... PERIOD!

[Go Tory Go!]

Would Go or some other moderator please create a new section of the forum for Ted Ginn Jr. threads?

Thanks.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='NASTYNATI' post='475948' date='Apr 22 2007, 02:58 PM']Oldschooler you say that its nearly impossible for any one player on defense where we are picking to make an impact? look at what thurman did his rookie season? how about madieu williams? its very possible for a player to step in and make an immediate impact. however i do agree that if injury plagues this team again next season no one player can help us win.[/quote]


Funny, both of the players you mentioned were drafted in the 2ND ROUND.


[quote]If we draft Ted Ginn at 18 and he proves his worth I will say so and will retract all previous negative comments. But only if he comes to Cincinnati and becomes a Bengal will I do so. I think he's overrated and there is nothing wrong with that. Im sure there are tons of Michigan/Miami players out there that you buckeye fans think are overrated so i guess i dont see what the big deal is.[/quote]


So what you`re saying is, "I`ll talk shit about him now, because I hate the Buckeyes,
and because I can talk shit about him, because he hasn`t been able to prove
anything in the NFL yet. And will only shut-up if He is drafted by the Bengals and makes an impact". . .

Ummmm, OK.

[quote]Its okay for everyone here to bash the rest of the leagues players, but when the spotlight turns to one of our Beloved Bengals the panties get all bunched up and people get defensive. whats really sad is, some of you are getting all riled up over a guy that wont even be on the board when we pick. This is simply another case of the Buckeye and Hurricane homers going at it... PERIOD![/quote]

What ? No seriously . . . I haven`t a fucking clue what you`re talking about here.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='MrOrange1219' post='475945' date='Apr 22 2007, 02:34 PM']Yes, actually, I do.

If the Bengals draft Houston, Revis or Hall, and he ends up as a third down nickleback at most, I think the Bengals will be better than last season.

And I think getting a CB that can help stop the opposing offense on third down will do more for the Bengals than padding the WR corp.

Just my opinion, though...[/quote]


Well see, I think the Defense will be better regardless.
Because J-Joe, Peko, Ahmad, Jeanty, Busing, Indy Jones and Kilmer will have a year`s expierence
under their belts. I think Sam Adams will be in better shape and more commited.
I think Geathers will only be better. I think Deltha couldn`t be any worse, and if he
wants to get paid, he will have to be better. I think Odell will come back and be
better than ever with a new lease on life.

We don`t know what we have in Rucker, Nicholson and Brandon Williams. So they`re kind of like adding
a few draft picks to the roster. I think Michael Myers will be an upgrade to Shaun Smith.
Plus there is going to be a different approach and attitude taken by the coaches this offseason.
They are going to instill an identity on this Defense.

Anyway, I think the Bengals are going to draft a Safety. I said that they are going
to pick Michael Griffin from Texas in Jason`s contest. But the only reason I jumped
into this conversation is because I could see Ginn helping not just the Offense,
but the TEAM. He is clearly a talent worthy of the 18th pick. And could do more
than just "pad the WR corp". I wouldn`t mind if the Bengals drafted him.
And it has nothing to do with being a Buckeyes fan.

That`s all just my opinion . . .



[quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='475953' date='Apr 22 2007, 03:25 PM']Would Go or some other moderator please create a new section of the forum for Ted Ginn Jr. threads?

Thanks.[/quote]


The thread is titled clearly enough that if the subject doesn`t appeal to you,
bores you, or gets on your nerves that all you have to do is not click on it.
Try it.

Thanks.

[NASTYNATI]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='475955' date='Apr 22 2007, 04:30 PM'][b]Funny, both of the players you mentioned were drafted in the 2ND ROUND.[/b]
So what you`re saying is, "I`ll talk shit about him now, because I hate the Buckeyes,
and because I can talk shit about him, because he hasn`t been able to prove
anything in the NFL yet. And will only shut-up if He is drafted by the Bengals and makes an impact". . .

Ummmm, OK.
What ? No seriously . . . I haven`t a fucking clue what you`re talking about here.[/quote]


I didnt mention anything about a first round draft pick. you said that no defensive player can come right in and make an impact, i just named two.

It has nothing to do with the buckeyes, it has to do with the fact that he's overrated. If we spend the pick on him at 18 ill be pissed and unless he comes in here and proves his worth i will continue to dislike him and the pick.

let me clarify, because you are the worst about this. Everytime a player or the team fucks up or gets hurt and anyone gets upset or mentions something negative you are the first to get defensive. God forbid anyone be upset with poor play from anyone or the team as a whole. you did it all season last season and will continue to do so, im just curious are you happy with 8-8 seasons? because i know many of us are not.

[scharm]

[quote name='A-Men-HouseofPain' post='475930' date='Apr 22 2007, 02:36 PM']did u just compare ginn to randy moss? [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] i hope i read that wrong.[/quote]

Didn't compare Ginn to anyone. Compared the mind set that was back in 1998 and the what happened because of it.

Everyone had to have LBs and defense back then too.

Take the guy you think has more of chance to be a pro bowler instead of trying to fill a roster spot.


Everyone had to have defense the year Justin Smith was drafted. Now all you here is people bitching about a solid starting player that doesn't produce the stats of some mythical 4th player taken.

[scharm]

[quote name='JC' post='475932' date='Apr 22 2007, 02:44 PM']We got a stud at 24? (i think) last year...why couldn't we do the same this year 6 spots ahead. If Keiwan is still nickel corner for this team we can easily upgrade.[/quote]

Because depth of talent changes from year to year and the order of selection changes from year to year.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='NASTYNATI' post='475963' date='Apr 22 2007, 04:28 PM']I didnt mention anything about a first round draft pick. you said that no defensive player can come right in and make an impact, i just named two.[/quote]


Re-read my original post there Sparky.
I asked if he thought that a 1st round rookie was going to fix the Defense.
The problems that the Defense had last season where not the problem
of 1 person. No matter how much people bashed on Tory James . . . myself included.

[quote]It has nothing to do with the buckeyes, it has to do with the fact that he's overrated. If we spend the pick on him at 18 ill be pissed and unless he comes in here and proves his worth i will continue to dislike him and the pick.[/quote]

Over rated to you. But he is worthy of a 1st round pick and hasn`t even begun
to realize his potential.

As far as disliking him and the pick. That`s OK, you`ve hated on every 1st round
pick Marvin has made. (Well except for J-Joe. But maybe you hated on him too
and I just hadn`t noticed.)


[quote]let me clarify, because you are the worst about this. Everytime a player or the team fucks up or gets hurt and anyone gets upset or mentions something negative you are the first to get defensive. God forbid anyone be upset with poor play from anyone or the team as a whole. you did it all season last season and will continue to do so, im just curious are you happy with 8-8 seasons? because i know many of us are not.[/quote]

Let me clarify this, you are talking out your fucking ass.

I`ll never be "happy" with anything other than the Lombardi Trophy, and I have bashed on players this season.


Here is an example. I started the Bengals-Chargers game thread off like this . . .


[quote name='oldschooler' post='383473' date='Nov 12 2006, 10:59 AM']Ladies and Gentlemen,

I thought I would start this game thread the way I started the Chiefs game thread that kicked
off the season. Because this is the kick off of the 2nd half of the season. And the 2nd half of the
season will determine if the Bengals are the Playoff team we all thought they were.

All the experts said that if Palmer started the season, the Bengals were legit Super Bowl contenders.
Like all of us, they never expected the Offense to struggle the way it has.

There has been a lot of finger pointing and whining to the media, by stars and some team leaders.
There has been some experts saying that the reason the Bengals are struggling is because of
character issues. We all know about the injuries. But every team has injuries. Injuries are
part of the game. Injuries are an excuse. Great teams find a way to win, regardless of who
is injured. Great coaches find a way to win with the players they have available.

I have a few quotes in my signature, one says "Winning makes believers of us all."
Truer words were never spoken.
Another quote says "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less."

[b]It`s time to shut up and let your play do the talking. Are you listening Chad ?
It`s time to show everyone that you`re the better team on the field. Are you listening TJ ?
It`s time start screaming at the coaches and players to be more physical ON the field DURING the game. Are you listening Big Willie ?
It`s time to get past that mental hurdle and trust your team mates. Are you listening Carson ?
It`s time to take your frustrations out on your opponents. Are you listening Defense ? How about
you Offense ? You hear me too don`t you Coaches ? [/b]

The Bengals have two choices, they can look at the games coming up and say
We`re going to prove that we are a great team by beating some of the best
teams in the NFL, while driving towards the Playoffs. Or they can keep giving
us excuses, about the coaching, injuries and schedule, and be a mediocre team.
They have plenty of excuses they can fall back on. They also have a chance to
show everyone what a great team they are. The 2nd half of the season will show
us which team they truly are.

With all of that said...

[color="#FF6600"][size=5][b]IT`S TIME TO GET BACK ON THE ROAD TO MIAMI ! [/b][/size] [/color]
[size=7][b]WHO-DEY !!!!!!!!!![/b] [/size]
[img]http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2104/buttheadmd4.gif[/img][img]http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3747/beavisps5.gif[/img][/quote]


This was a post I made after the game, and quoting the post above . . .


[quote name='oldschooler' post='384674' date='Nov 12 2006, 04:41 PM']I should have said the 2nd half of this game...

Chargers biggest come back in their history.

I blame this loss on the Defense, the Offense`s failure to do anything in the 2nd half,
and the coaching not doing what it took to stop the flood gates.

What a pathetic performance...[/quote]

Game thread link . . .

[url="http://forum.go-bengals.com/index.php?showtopic=25005&hl=Chargers%20Bengals%20Game%20thread"]http://forum.go-bengals.com/index.php?show...20Game%20thread[/url]


There are plenty more instances where I bashed Chad, Sam Adams and a host of others
throughout the season. So why don`t you have a big cup of STFU now . . .

[MrOrange1219]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='475983' date='Apr 22 2007, 06:38 PM']Re-read my original post there Sparky.
I asked if he thought that a 1st round rookie was going to fix the Defense.[/quote]
If we KNOW second rounders can do it, I would think it'd be common sense for a first rounder to be able to do it.

[|Bengal Migration|]

Damn, damn, damn. The season cannot start enough. I miss oldschooler kicking off gameday threads....

I'd beg for you to kick off the inevitable draft day thread, but I won't get to read it. I get to go to a fucking wedding

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='MrOrange1219' post='476008' date='Apr 22 2007, 06:48 PM']If we KNOW second rounders can do it, I would think it'd be common sense for a first rounder to be able to do it.[/quote]

So when did 2nd rounders fix THIS Defense ?

[-GoBengals-]

Ginn is a very gifted athlete who isnt "polished" at ANY position. he has raw skill, raw speed, i dont know much about his hands or route running, and likely wont be taking any biased buckeye fans word for it either way,

he played DB in high school, hasnt played it since, he played 3 years at WR at OSU, his first year was sub par, had a big breakout year, in 2005, getting over 800 yards, but only 4 TD's, then had less yards, less yards per catch, but more catches, and 9 TD's in 2006,

he ranked 62nd in receiving yards in 2006, thats hardly "dominating" by any stretch
he ranked tied for 30th-39th place in receiving TD's - again, not that dominating

only getting into the endzone 9 times is mind boggling, and it comes down to experience and knowledge of his position,


you dont spend a first round pick on a kick returner/WR project/DB project unless you need WR really relaly bad or have every base covered and are just adding talent.

if everyone else we want is gone, we trade down and pickup a extra 2nd and a third round pick or something. you dont have to draft someone you dont want to, and we pick 18th, not 32nd, not like a few QB's RB's and WR's wont certainly be going ahead of us, likely in the top 10, as well as some Oline and d-line as well, theres no way in a frosty hell all of the top 20 DB's, LBS', DT's, LBs', are all gone by 18, and a buncha offensive players sitting around at 18,

its not impossible that we take ginn, but the chances are pretty slim.

1. he should go ahead of us
2. there should be plenty of talent left even if he is
3. we dont need a WR almost AT ALL.
4. no one is spending a 1st round pick on a DB who hasnt played DB in over 3 years since high school. not happening. a DE to LB switch isnt much, but tossed into NFL db role after player catch for 3 years is unlikely..

without having a 3rd rounder, we need to make the most out of our 2 first day picks. i think taking ginn would cripple that a bit since he is a question mark with sick skills all around.

the nfl is scattered with guys with speed or raw skills who did and didnt make it, rocket ismail, desmond howard, etc, then speed freaks like deion sanders playing all over the place successfully...