Patriots Cheating?

[Dodgems]

Like I said earlier in this thread. This was ruled on quickly in order to stop more info from coming out. Godell does NOT want more info leaking out and tarnishing the league. I doubt it works as planned since there are many people furious about this and the quick/light punishment only makes matters smell worse. Why take months to determine a players fate who had pretty much cleaned up his act and then act with in days of a much larger and far reaching scandle? thats right. To stop info from flowing.

I find it hilarious that others are saying this was an acceptable punishment since it only happened once. wtf. There are at least 2 separately documented incidences as well as his lying to the public in his "interpretation of the rules" statement. That in itself should be grounds for some punishment. Lying gets the book thrown at CH and OT. Why not Belicheat? Ohh wait a minute. Thats right. The owner, Kraft, is connected to CBS, who pays a lot of NFL execs salaries.

Considering they taped Green Bay and only play them every 4 years this should tell anyone they were not doing it for informative purposes in the future. It is done to analyze it asap and use it in that days game plan. Sorry rick but I just cannot see any reasoning for taping an opponent when you will not see them again for 4 years. Database or not the bottom line is the plays and signals will most likely be different then anyway. I see your point on time but honestly when is knowing your opponents signals most important... Exactly at the end of the game. So that gives you the 1st and 2nd quarters to tape, the 3rd to analyze and the 4th to cheat. Plenty of time for even one person to do. How many minutes of signal tape can there be in a game? 5 maybe 10 minutes at MOST once the garbage is edited out?

Godell doesn't even address the frequency issues at all. Or the mysterious loss of communication at critical points in the game when playing at Foxboro. He only addressed what was already public and nothing more. That has NOT been his MO in any other discipline case yet. Even with Vick he waited for him to plead guilty before doing anything of substance.

I smell stink all over the NFL front office and honestly have no choice but to question the integrity of the game now. That is NOT because of Belicheat's actions but as a direct result of how this was handled by the NFL.

[Actium]

[quote name='Dodgems' post='547636' date='Sep 14 2007, 03:53 PM']Like I said earlier in this thread. This was ruled on quickly in order to stop more info from coming out. Godell does NOT want more info leaking out and tarnishing the league. I doubt it works as planned since there are many people furious about this and the quick/light punishment only makes matters smell worse. Why take months to determine a players fate who had pretty much cleaned up his act and then act with in days of a much larger and far reaching scandle? thats right. To stop info from flowing.

I find it hilarious that others are saying this was an acceptable punishment since it only happened once. wtf. There are at least 2 separately documented incidences as well as his lying to the public in his "interpretation of the rules" statement. That in itself should be grounds for some punishment. Lying gets the book thrown at CH and OT. Why not Belicheat? Ohh wait a minute. Thats right. The owner, Kraft, is connected to CBS, who pays a lot of NFL execs salaries.

Considering they taped Green Bay and only play them every 4 years this should tell anyone they were not doing it for informative purposes in the future. It is done to analyze it asap and use it in that days game plan. Sorry rick but I just cannot see any reasoning for taping an opponent when you will not see them again for 4 years. Database or not the bottom line is the plays and signals will most likely be different then anyway. I see your point on time but honestly when is knowing your opponents signals most important... Exactly at the end of the game. So that gives you the 1st and 2nd quarters to tape, the 3rd to analyze and the 4th to cheat. Plenty of time for even one person to do. How many minutes of signal tape can there be in a game? 5 maybe 10 minutes at MOST once the garbage is edited out?

Godell doesn't even address the frequency issues at all. Or the mysterious loss of communication at critical points in the game when playing at Foxboro. He only addressed what was already public and nothing more. That has NOT been his MO in any other discipline case yet. Even with Vick he waited for him to plead guilty before doing anything of substance.

I smell stink all over the NFL front office and honestly have no choice but to question the integrity of the game now. That is NOT because of Belicheat's actions but as a direct result of how this was handled by the NFL.[/quote]

co-sign

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Lucid' post='547627' date='Sep 14 2007, 04:17 PM']The rule specifically states that you cannot film the [b]sidelines[/b] from anywhere PERIOD.. Teams are allowed to take stills/video of the [b]action on the field[/b] in order to help them make adjustments.[/quote]


actually the way that I heard the rule read today, no video at all is even allowed on the field at all, no matter what it is filming.

[Actium]

I guess Dungy does speak:

[quote]POSTED 4:03 p.m. EDT, September 14, 2007

DUNGY TAKES PATS FEUD TO NEXT LEVEL

Though no longer in the same division, the Colts and the Patriots have as bitter a rivalry as any two teams could have, in any sport. Until last year, the Pats owned the Colts in the postseason. But with a stirring second-half comeback (maybe they changed their defensive signals at intermission), the Colts finally broke through in the 2006 playoffs.

Now, Colts coach Tony Dungy is speaking out regarding the "Patriots Act" controversy, and he directed some significant criticism at coach Bill Belichick.

"We seem to have tarnished Barry Bonds," Dungy said on Friday, noting that Belichick's success could similarly be questioned. "We've pointed out that, even though he's a great player and he's hit a lot of home runs, because of what some people that work around him have done, it seems to have tarnished him in the court of public opinion. We'll see.

"Really, sad day for the NFL," Dungy added. "It's another case of the 99 percent good things that are happening being overshadowed by one percent bad. Again, people aren't talking about our product, they're talking about a negative incident."

Dungy also said that Patriots owner Bob Kraft will constantly face scrutiny as a result of the situation.

"He's going to have to answer questions all the time, from here on out," Dungy said. "When headsets go wrong, he's going to have to answer if it's something that just happened or is this planned. There's bad grass everywhere, but when the grass doesn't grow up there, he's going to be asked about it, and that's too bad."

There's no long grass at Gillette Stadium, but we get the point. The deeper message could be aimed at Kraft himself, and might be intended to get the owner to think that the team will be the subject of suspicion until Belichick is no longer the head coach.

Despite Dungy's mild-mannered demeanor, we think that this is a prime example of the never-ending effort to obtain an edge. If, for example, the Pats were to part ways with Belichick, it would presumably be easier for the Colts to beat them.

We know that's an extremely cynical view of Dungy. But news of secret dog-fighting compounds and not-so-secret videotaping techniques tends to make folks more inclined to look for that which does not always meet the eye.[/quote]

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='Dodgems' post='547636' date='Sep 14 2007, 06:23 PM']Like I said earlier in this thread. This was ruled on quickly in order to stop more info from coming out. Godell does NOT want more info leaking out and tarnishing the league. I doubt it works as planned since there are many people furious about this and the quick/light punishment only makes matters smell worse. Why take months to determine a players fate who had pretty much cleaned up his act and then act with in days of a much larger and far reaching scandle? thats right. To stop info from flowing.

I find it hilarious that others are saying this was an acceptable punishment since it only happened once. wtf. There are at least 2 separately documented incidences as well as his lying to the public in his "interpretation of the rules" statement. That in itself should be grounds for some punishment. Lying gets the book thrown at CH and OT. Why not Belicheat? Ohh wait a minute. Thats right. The owner, Kraft, is connected to CBS, who pays a lot of NFL execs salaries.

Considering they taped Green Bay and only play them every 4 years this should tell anyone they were not doing it for informative purposes in the future. It is done to analyze it asap and use it in that days game plan. Sorry rick but I just cannot see any reasoning for taping an opponent when you will not see them again for 4 years. Database or not the bottom line is the plays and signals will most likely be different then anyway. I see your point on time but honestly when is knowing your opponents signals most important... Exactly at the end of the game. So that gives you the 1st and 2nd quarters to tape, the 3rd to analyze and the 4th to cheat. Plenty of time for even one person to do. How many minutes of signal tape can there be in a game? 5 maybe 10 minutes at MOST once the garbage is edited out?

Godell doesn't even address the frequency issues at all. Or the mysterious loss of communication at critical points in the game when playing at Foxboro. He only addressed what was already public and nothing more. That has NOT been his MO in any other discipline case yet. Even with Vick he waited for him to plead guilty before doing anything of substance.

I smell stink all over the NFL front office and honestly have no choice but to question the integrity of the game now. That is NOT because of Belicheat's actions but as a direct result of how this was handled by the NFL.[/quote]

Nice post

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='547638' date='Sep 14 2007, 04:59 PM']actually the way that I heard the rule read today, no video at all is even allowed on the field at all, no matter what it is filming.[/quote]


That is odd, because I KNOW I have seen players looking over film of game situations on the sidelines. I am pretty sure that the rule applies specifically to taping coaches etc...

Here is something from some [url="http://www.thesunchronicle.com/articles/2007/09/14/news/news1.txt"]newspaper[/url]

[quote]NFL rules state "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game," and that all video for coaching purposes must be shot from locations "enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

That point was underscored in a memo sent Sept. 6 by Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations, to all NFL teams. The memo said that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."[/quote]


The NFL rule seems to indicate ANY type of recording, while the memo seems to be specific towards sign stealing (possibly due to previous pat offenses?).

[Jungle1]

[quote name='Dodgems' post='547636' date='Sep 14 2007, 04:53 PM']Like I said earlier in this thread. This was ruled on quickly in order to stop more info from coming out. Godell does NOT want more info leaking out and tarnishing the league. I doubt it works as planned since there are many people furious about this and the quick/light punishment only makes matters smell worse. Why take months to determine a players fate who had pretty much cleaned up his act and then act with in days of a much larger and far reaching scandle? thats right. To stop info from flowing.

I find it hilarious that others are saying this was an acceptable punishment since it only happened once. wtf. There are at least 2 separately documented incidences as well as his lying to the public in his "interpretation of the rules" statement. That in itself should be grounds for some punishment. Lying gets the book thrown at CH and OT. Why not Belicheat? Ohh wait a minute. Thats right. The owner, Kraft, is connected to CBS, who pays a lot of NFL execs salaries.

Considering they taped Green Bay and only play them every 4 years this should tell anyone they were not doing it for informative purposes in the future. It is done to analyze it asap and use it in that days game plan. Sorry rick but I just cannot see any reasoning for taping an opponent when you will not see them again for 4 years. Database or not the bottom line is the plays and signals will most likely be different then anyway. I see your point on time but honestly when is knowing your opponents signals most important... Exactly at the end of the game. So that gives you the 1st and 2nd quarters to tape, the 3rd to analyze and the 4th to cheat. Plenty of time for even one person to do. How many minutes of signal tape can there be in a game? 5 maybe 10 minutes at MOST once the garbage is edited out?

Godell doesn't even address the frequency issues at all. Or the mysterious loss of communication at critical points in the game when playing at Foxboro. He only addressed what was already public and nothing more. That has NOT been his MO in any other discipline case yet. Even with Vick he waited for him to plead guilty before doing anything of substance.

I smell stink all over the NFL front office and honestly have no choice but to question the integrity of the game now. That is NOT because of Belicheat's actions but as a direct result of how this was handled by the NFL.[/quote]

I think the rest of the NFL got jobbed by this ruling. The Cheatriots got off easy, and so did the coach.

Colin Cowherd read the rule out of the NFL rule book today and it cannot be misinterpreted. To have Bill say he misinterpreted it is an insult to the human race.

Besides the headsets, video, etc. I have also heard that the Cheatriots lineman would wear audio recorders to help decipher audibles and cadence of the QB.

And, there is a simple reason they do this for every game, even if they only play a team once every four years. Coaches and players move around the league. They probably have files on everybody. Hell, they may have more info on people than the FBI.

Anyway, I think they got off easy. I didn't like the Cheatriots before and I hate them now!

[Oldcat]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='547592' date='Sep 14 2007, 12:24 PM']so it wouldn't be beneficial if the offenseive coordinator at green bay gets a head gig at miami or something? you would certainly get a good idea of the foundation of their signals...

the point of building a large database is so you have a large collection of signs and can look up any situation possible...

also, the pats could face the packers in the playoffs and the signals could be extremely helpful then as well..

as far as using the tapes at halftime, think about it... the guy would have to upload the data into the computer that does the play breakdowns, then interpret each play vs. the signal, and then change things based off of those interpretations... and do all of this at halftime...

sorry, but i doubt highly that this had much to do w/ that particular game... just my opinion, but i'd like to know how they could do all that in a half an hour?[/quote]

So your theory, is instead of taping the signals of a team for that week to use that week, is that they tape the signals of the
brand new coordinator of a bad team in the chance that if he ever gets a job with ANOTHER team years down the road they
might be able to steal his signals faster, without cheating. So i suppose they tape all the college coaches in case they get promoted.
Its that kind of preparation that makes the Patriot Gamers such an outstanding franchise.

And the way they get an idea of the signals in an hour or so is constant practice over years and years of cheating. You dont get good
without preparation and dedication - Just ask the Coach.

Look if i catch a guy in my house with his hand in my wallet, its POSSIBLE that he was counting it in preparation for my coming into his
store and spending it later. Or making a database of all the cash carrying practices of guys of my age.

But 99.999999 percent of the time its because the guy is a thief.

[LudwigVan Kubrick]

[quote name='BengalMom' post='547530' date='Sep 14 2007, 02:13 PM']Right now, if I were Odell and Henry, I would play the race card![/quote]


I think you, like many others, are confusing the "race" card, with the "money" and "power" cards.

Don't worry, its a popular mistake.



The Patriots:

1. A symbol of hope after 9/11
2. Media darlings
3. Kraft has a lot of money, and power. Therefore, a lot of influence.
4. Tom Brady is a household name. What TV show HASN'T he been on?
5. 3 Super Bowls

Thurman and Henry

1. Just a couple of NFL players.


The Patriot Act indeed. But wait, I've said too much already...
[img]http://home.tu-clausthal.de/~ifjkl/pics/schauspieler/eric_stoltz2.jpg[/img]

"Prank call!! Prank call!"

[Dodgems]

You know. Lady Justice has a blind fold on for a specific reason. How much you wanna bet the NFL version has an ear piece in and a small whole cut in the blindfold. Or better yet the material on her eyes is one way. You can't see her eyes but she can most certainly see who fills your wallet on payday. This is really a sad sad day for us all. Another case of who you know being more influential vs what you did wrong. tsk tsk tsk.

I will concede that taping can help down the road only if others will concede that taping can help today lol.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Lucid' post='547645' date='Sep 14 2007, 05:10 PM'][b]That is odd, because I KNOW I have seen players looking over film of game situations on the sidelines. I am pretty sure that the rule applies specifically to taping coaches etc... [/b]
Here is something from some [url="http://www.thesunchronicle.com/articles/2007/09/14/news/news1.txt"]newspaper[/url]
The NFL rule seems to indicate ANY type of recording, while the memo seems to be specific towards sign stealing (possibly due to previous pat offenses?).[/quote]


do you mean players looking at PHOTOS taken from cameras from the booth? I've never seen a player watching video on the sidelines.

[Oldcat]

No, I don't accept this future advantage dodge in the least.

Its a standard dodge:

First - We are innocent! They are just jealous of us!!!
Second - Well if we did do it, it didnt do us any good anyway!!!!
Third - Well ok, we didnt do it to get an advantage NOW, just later!!!!!
Fourth - not until the second quarter. Ok the second drive.


Claiming that the cheating you did didnt help cause you aren't good at it doesn't excuse it.
And in an NFL world where the best coaches have about 2 years of job security means that
these 10 year plan exucses are just more lies.

[|Lucid|]

The reason it's obvious that it was of great help to the Patriots is the simple fact that at great risk, they continued the practice. The continued it after being caught red handed once, and then reminded of the rules. Everyone in that organization knew what would happen to them if they got caught (and maybe worse).. Yet they kept doint it anyway.. The people that run these organizations are sharp individuals. They aren't going to take great risk without great reward.

You can argue all day about HOW they used the information, but the facts remain.

1. It is beyond the scope of the mutually agreed apon rules.
2. The risk of punishment is indicative of the competitive advantage provided by the said illegal activity.

How many games have the Patriots won by a field goal at the end of the game? How many times has their season been defined by such victories? Is it possible that the illegal activities could provide enough of an advantage to equate to at least 3 points?

I believe the answer to the final question is "Yes". And I believe the Patriots believe so too, else they wouldn't have continued the practice in the first place.

[Jungle1]

Sorry if this was already posted; from profootballweekly

Sources: Belichick's punishment was not severe enough
By PFW Staff
Sept. 14, 2007


The league reacted quickly to the controversy surrounding the Patriots' videotaping scandal. On Thursday evening, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell fined head coach Bill Belichick $500,000 and the Patriots $250,000 for allegedly videotaping the Jets' coaching staff's signals during last Sunday's 38-14 Patriots victory. New England will additionally be docked a first-round pick in the 2008 NFL draft if it makes the playoffs, or forfeit its second- and third-round picks if it fails to reach the postseason.

The PFW spin

League reaction towards Goodell’s punishment of Patriots head coach Bill Belichick has been one of surprise.

“He basically got a slap on the wrist,” said one high-ranking NFL executive. “A lot of head coaches are upset about it. Why does Wade Wilson receive a five-game suspension for a harmless mistake that had nothing to do with the outcome of games and Belichick gets nothing. He should have been suspended for at least five games. It’s bull. This was not a first-time offense. The league has been notified about it in the past.”

Belichick has been quick to make the story a non-story, refusing to speak about it outside of issuing a statement in which he essentially deemed what many in the league consider to be years of cheating as a misinterpretation of the rules.

“It’s like Bill Clinton saying he did not think (having oral sex) was having sex,” said one NFL insider. “Maybe the name Bill has something to do with it, but the last time there was a president that issued denials, there was a lot more to the story below the surface still waiting to come out.”

A similar occurrence took place a year ago when Packers’ security noticed the Patriots’ cameraman videotaping the Packers’ coaches from the sideline and then going back to the scoreboard to show down and distance. Accounts of the Lions and Jaguars encountering problems with communication while facing the Patriots have also arisen.

************The key to the videotaping was how much of a competitive advantage the Patriots gained by using the video, both during the game and in the future. It is worth noting, the Patriots and the Jets thoroughly whipped the Packers in the second half of the season a year ago in which Green Bay finished very strong, beating the Vikings twice along with the Lions and the Bears. In Green Bay's 34-24 loss vs. Seattle, the Packers were in the game until the fourth quarter, when the Seahawks outscored them 15-3. However, the game was over for all practical purposes vs. the Belichick coaching tree, as the Patriots were up 21-0 at halftime in Week 11 and the Jets were up 31-0 at halftime two weeks later.

Belichick did his best to keep Mangini from defecting from the Patriots, and he was very bothered by his departure. There has been an ongoing feud between the two since, as they have brought in each other’s recently cut players for interrogation. Miami head coach Nick Saban was also called into question a year ago, after a 21-0 win over the Patriots on Dec. 10, for trying to steal audibles by studying the TV copy which includes sound featuring Tom Brady’s calls at the line of scrimmage.**********************

Some teams are still calling for Belichick to be supended for 3-5 games. There's even a line of thinking that the Patriots should have to forfeit both of their 2008 first-round draft picks to really drive home the point that this type of action will not be tolerated.

However, one source speculated that the quick action taken by the league was done in an effort to put the issue to rest and avoid further negative publicity that could have resulted if Belichick had been suspended.

The question that executives continue to ponder, given Belichick’s clear violation of the rules and the competitive advantage that he gained, is how this incident is any different than the concept of using steroids and why a suspension did not accompany the ruling. Team executives expect that the issue will continue to be raised and, the way we hear it, this might not be the end of the punishment if new details continue to surface. *******In fact, there are some NFL execs who are suggesting that this incident could be just the tip of the iceberg, and that details of additional rules infractions could still surface.**************

[Cricket]

[size=3]Did you guys catch the betting line for the Patriots-Chargers game?

[b]The Chargers are getting 3 and a half points...and one video camera.[/b]
[/size]

[Jungle1]

How many angle shots of Janet Jackson's breast does Bill own???

[Jeb]

[quote name='Lucid' post='547664' date='Sep 14 2007, 05:48 PM']The reason it's obvious that it was of great help to the Patriots is the simple fact that at great risk, they continued the practice. The continued it after being caught red handed once, and then reminded of the rules. Everyone in that organization knew what would happen to them if they got caught (and maybe worse).. Yet they kept doint it anyway.. The people that run these organizations are sharp individuals. They aren't going to take great risk without great reward.

You can argue all day about HOW they used the information, but the facts remain.

1. It is beyond the scope of the mutually agreed apon rules.
2. The risk of punishment is indicative of the competitive advantage provided by the said illegal activity.

How many games have the Patriots won by a field goal at the end of the game? How many times has their season been defined by such victories? Is it possible that the illegal activities could provide enough of an advantage to equate to at least 3 points?

I believe the answer to the final question is "Yes". And I believe the Patriots believe so too, else they wouldn't have continued the practice in the first place.[/quote]

This is exactly why I have to ask, ...what is to stop the Patriots from cheating in the Bolts game or ours? Nothing!

They can start their cheating ways again immediately since nobody is talking about prevention and inspection by the league. The commissioner has not mandated greater security for Patriots games so they can start cheating right away again. Why not? They were caught before and kept doing it. They have a history of ignoring repercussions.

The league has an obligation to protect the other teams. Higher security for Patriots games must be implemented or the league admits to the world it just doesn't really care. Is it all a charade? Or does the league mean what they say. If so, they need to step up to the challenge and prove it.

Hey NFL, ...increase security for Patriots games or be prepared to be viewed as just another WWF.

[bengalrick]

i heard that the patriots defense have knives in their socks and stab people on the bottom of piles to get fumble recoveries... i mean, we're talking about the patricheats here guys!!! everything is possible as far as the greatest cheating team ever invented...

[oldschooler]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='547749' date='Sep 14 2007, 06:52 PM']i heard that the patriots defense have knives in their socks and stab people on the bottom of piles to get fumble recoveries... i mean, we're talking about the patricheats here guys!!! everything is possible as far as the greatest cheating team ever invented...[/quote]



This is your most sensible post in this thread. Sad but true . . .



Oh and put down the tube of glue and please step away from the children !

[BengalMom]

[quote][/quote]The Gameface: Sandlot boys

The Gameface: Sandlot boys

By Michael Silver, Yahoo! Sports
September 14, 2007




Just before halftime of last Sunday's game between the New York Jets and New England Patriots at Giants Stadium, a slight, unassuming man in a dark blue Pats polo shirt and khaki shorts was stopped by NFL security officials as he tried to enter the visitors' locker room. Suddenly, a 26-year-old video assistant named Matt Estrella found himself in a scene that might have been lifted from "The Bourne Ultimatum."

Suspected of having filmed hand signals from Jets' coaches while standing on that team's sideline, Estrella was interrogated in the bowels of the stadium by Jets and NFL security officials. New Jersey state troopers and FBI agents were also summoned. Mike Tannenbaum, the Jets' general manager, left his seat during the second half and entered the fray, sternly lecturing Estrella about his apparent violation of NFL rules.

At one point, somebody brought Estrella a glass of water. He was shaking so hard that he spilled it all over himself. For all we know, that wasn't the only liquid that ended up on Estrella's person during the hour-long grilling.

Congratulations, Bill Belichick and Eric Mangini: your petty, childish little feud just made a member of the hired help wet his pants.

Now that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has come down hard on Belichick and the Patriots, fining the coach $500,000 and docking the organization $250,000 and a first-round NFL draft pick (if New England makes the playoffs) or second- and third-round choices in 2008, we can all sit back and condemn him for blatantly cheating in the pursuit of a competitive edge. Some people, including a few current members of the Philadelphia Eagles, are even questioning whether the Pats' three Super Bowl victories in the previous six seasons are tainted by this behavior.


It's a public relations nightmare for an organization that has been mostly classy and commendable in creating the 21st century's first mini-dynasty, but focusing on the potential advantage New England gained from the stolen signals is missing the point.
The people who've truly been cheated are those in the Patriots' organization – and their counterparts among the Mangini-coached Jets – who've been subjected to this consuming and unbecoming sandbox fight between two shrewd yet self-absorbed coaches.

If you don't think Sunday's bust was a setup (granted, a well-deserved one), you're not looking closely enough. Belichick ordered an employee to engage in a practice that Mangini knew all about, as it had been commonplace during his time as Belichick's defensive coordinator and defensive backs coach in New England. Anyone with a brain, let alone a brainiac like Belichick, would realize that videotaping an opponent's coaches in that particular context was a disaster waiting to happen. Arrogantly and blatantly, Belichick did it anyway, operating under the Clintonesque rationale that because he wasn't breaking down opposing coaches' signals until after the completion of the game in question, he wasn't violating any rules. I did not view tape from that camera (until later, when I used it for future signal-stealing reference.) So Slick Billy was there for the taking, and Mangini took down his former mentor, and hard, while watching his team suffer a 38-14 defeat.

Lest you think this was some random occurrence, consider the incestuous connections between the two organizations:

• The Jets' video director, Steve Scarnecchia, formerly worked for the Patriots' video department. Sources say he once had the same duties that landed Estrella in spilled water last Sunday and that Scarnecchia was the one who trained Estrella to clandestinely compile the verboten footage in the first place. Oh, and Scarnecchia's father, Dante, is New England's longtime offensive line coach and has been Belichick's assistant head coach since 2000. Theirs should be a whale of a Thanksgiving dinner.

• Another Jets employee, coordinator of college scouting Jay Mandolesi, was an intern in the Patriots' video department in 2002 and '03. Sources say he was fired after a dispute with then offensive coordinator Charlie Weis, possibly over similar video subterfuge.

• Tannenbaum and his Patriots counterpart, vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli, were once close friends, having previously worked together in Cleveland and with the Jets. Their relationship is now frayed.

How did all of this happen? How did Belichick, probably the greatest defensive strategist of his era and a future Hall of Fame coach, allow one of his prodigies to distract him from the task at hand and make him look like a fool?

It goes back to the end of the 2005 season, when the Jets were courting Mangini as a replacement for departed coach Herm Edwards. Belichick, who as the Browns' head coach in '95 had given his fellow Wesleyan alum an assistant's job after having noticed Mangini's work as a public relations intern, had a deep-seated disdain for the Jets' organization dating back to his infamous one-day stint as New York's head coach following Bill Parcells's resignation in January of 2000.

Go be a head coach anywhere but there, Belichick told his then-34-year-old defensive coordinator. There'll be other opportunities, and I'll help you get them, Belichick insisted. Just don't take this one.

Mangini took the job anyway, and Belichick felt betrayed. When Belichick learned that Mangini, while still serving out his final days with the Patriots, was soliciting Pats coaches, support staff members and players to join him at his new gig, the war was on. Belichick had Mangini's key card access revoked, but not before Mangini, a source says, took a laptop with confidential files stored in its hard drive out of the building. Mangini hired a Pats employee, Erin O'Brien, as his administrative assistant.

"He did exactly what Bill would do in the same situation," says one high-ranking league source who knows both men. "Bill raised him too well."

Whereas Belichick remained on good terms with ex-assistants Romeo Crennel, who took the Cleveland job, and Nick Saban, who went to the division rival Dolphins, Mangini was persona non grata the second he went to the dreaded Jets. Worse, the Patriots believed, star wideout Deion Branch felt empowered to hold out before the 2006 season because he'd been told by Mangini that the Jets sought his services at the price he desired.

Last August, when the Patriots gave Branch a week to negotiate with other teams in pursuit of a possible trade, the Jets were one of two franchises, along with the Seahawks, who made big-money offers. Branch was ultimately traded to Seattle, and the Patriots filed tampering charges against the Jets, who were later cleared by the league of wrongdoing.

The bad blood between Belichick and Mangini was evident after each of the two teams' regular season meetings in '06. First, following a 24-17 Pats victory at Giants Stadium, Belichick refused to look at Mangini during their brief handshake at midfield. Two months later, after the Jets pulled off a 17-14 upset at Gillette Stadium, Belichick tried a similar tack before Mangini grabbed his arm and gloated, "Great job!"

In January, after the Pats eliminated the Jets from the playoffs by a 37-16 score, Belichick shoved a photographer out of the way to get to Mangini and gave his former assistant what appeared to be a showboating, insincere hug.

After the season Mangini hired Brian Daboll, the Pats' wide receivers coach the previous five seasons, as his quarterbacks coach, compelling Belichick's staff to change much of its terminology over the offseason.

The gamesmanship continued before the start of the '07 season when Mangini brought in two players, wideout Reche Caldwell and cornerback Artrell Hawkins, who'd just been released by New England, a move some believed was little more than a ploy to pick the players' brains about the upcoming opponent's plays and terminology. The Pats countered by bringing in wideout Tim Dwight, who'd just been released by the Jets.

What went down on Sunday, of course, escalated this hissing match to a much darker place. Now that Mangini has made him the object of national embarrassment – and taken a $500,000 chunk out of his bank account – how should Belichick retaliate?

Here's how: Stop the madness. Take the high road. Start focusing on what he does best – coming up with brilliant game plans, picking the best players for his system and motivating them to perform at the highest level – and let go of a grudge that is totally beneath a coach of his stature.

When I hear about Mangini's paranoia, the secrecy over injuries, the threats of fining players whom he suspects of having given anonymous quotes or whose agents comment publicly about their clients' ailments, I think, "What a bunch of wasted energy." But I also can somewhat forgive him: He's young, and he thinks that by emulating Belichick in these ways he'll be destined for the same kind of towering success. Or perhaps he just got caught up in his "Mangenius" nickname and the guest turn on The Sopranos. Whatever: He's 36, and hopefully he'll grow up in the years to come.

Belichick is 55, and even though he's smarter than a fifth grader, he's acting like one. I've been a fan of his work from way, way back, through the post-Browns days when he was considered a classic head coaching washout, and despite his media-repellent ways we've had a good relationship for a long time. I want to see him enjoy the fruits of his labor and the legacy he has earned through hard work and exceptional acumen; I don't want to see him pushing photographers or revoking key cards or, worst of all, getting popped for cheating because he seemingly believed he could do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted, no matter who was watching.

Well, Little Brother was watching, and now he's laughing at Belichick because he's gotten so far under his skin.

Belichick may think it was the height of hypocrisy, not to mention an ungrateful maneuver by a guy who owes him a career, and he might be right. It doesn't matter.

As a very smart coach has often said, it is what it is.

And now, gentlemen, it's time to let it go.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='BengalMom' post='547871' date='Sep 14 2007, 11:11 PM'][/quote]


Gotta love the way pats fans and the Boston media want to try and make this about some personal fued between Belichick and Mangini.. Even going so far as to try and make Mangini, if not "the bad guy", equally culpable.

Except, this isn't about the Jets and Pats... It's about Belichick cheating the entire NFL for who knows how long.. The only way that his fued with Mangini is even relevant is that Belichick was stupid enough to try and cheat someone who knew his game, and was motivated to make him pay for it.

I have heard this stupid angle a surprising number of times, like we are just supposed to laugh it off as some sort of "bad-blood" family fued that got out of control.

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]'Spygate' penalty puzzles Cowboys' Wilson[/b][/size]

QB coach surprised Belichick was not suspended


08:02 PM CDT on Friday, September 14, 2007
By TODD ARCHER / The Dallas Morning News
tarcher@dallasnews.com

IRVING – When Wade Wilson learned New England coach Bill Belichick would not miss any games for his role in "Spygate," the suspended Cowboys quarterbacks coach was puzzled.

[b]"Being told coaches are held to higher authority, my intent was not to create an imbalance in competition," Wilson said. "Presumably, what the Patriots did was try to, so I'm wondering about the consistency." [/b]

Wilson has four games left of a five-game suspension and has to pay a $100,000 fine for violating the NFL's policy on performance-enhancing drugs. Wilson, who has lived with diabetes for 24 years, told commissioner Roger Goodell he was using a banned substance to help his quality of life. Wilson said the league cleared him of distributing the substance to players.

Speaking before the Cowboys' season opener against the New York Giants, Goodell said he punished Wilson because he holds coaches to a higher standard.

"As a coach, you understand the policies and you're responsible for leading these young men, and we want them to lead them in the right direction," Goodell said.

Wilson said he will speak with Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones before he decides whether to appeal his suspension. Wilson added that he is unsure whether it's still possible to file an appeal. When the suspension was announced, Wilson spoke with NFL Coaches Association president Larry Kennan about an appeal but opted against it.

"If Jerry doesn't want me to do that, then I'll accept that because of the way he's backed me," Wilson said.

Belichick was fined $500,000 by the league and the organization was docked $250,000. If the Patriots make the playoffs this year, they will forfeit their first-round pick in next year's draft. If they do not qualify for the postseason, they'll lose second- and third-round picks.

[b]Wilson said the fines seem disproportionate when comparing his salary to Belichick's. The Patriots coach is believed to make $4.2 million a year, while Wilson makes a little over $300,000.[/b]

"I'm not trying to jump down the commissioner's back or bring Coach Belichick down," Wilson said. "I'd just like consistency from what I was told to what the next situation was."

Cowboys coach Wade Phillips responded to the news of Belichick's punishment, noting the loss of either a draft pick or picks as costly.

"Wow. I think that's the way things are going in the league," Phillips said. "The commissioner is going to be strong on every issue and losing a first-round pick or a second- and a third-round pick ... when you lose players, that can hurt you, certainly, coaching-wise."

Phillips is a proponent of allowing coaches to talk to a defensive player the same way they can talk to the quarterback during games, a proposal that was voted down by the teams last spring. New England was one of the teams opposed to such a move.

"I would be surprised if anybody would be [filming] from the sideline now," Phillips said.[/quote]






[url="http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/cowboys/stories/091507dnspocowsider.2b368ad.html"]http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...er.2b368ad.html[/url]

[oldschooler]

[img]http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o156/GreekSteeler/cheaties.jpg[/img]

[LudwigVan Kubrick]

I can't say that I am pissed. I'm too old for that. Pissed is what you are the first time you see someone get a free pass because they are in the "club." Disappointed is more like it.

The NFL dropped a few notches, credibility-wise, in a lot of people's eyes because of this "decision".