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Bengals1181

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Posted
What do you do this offseason? What changes do you make?




I'll get the controversial one out of the way, I pick up Dunn's option. We're not going to replace that kind of production with the players currently on the roster. The young guys just aren't ready for that yet. His pitfalls can be hidden by assembling better hitters around him.


Sign Brandon Philips to a 5 (or more) deal. Lock him up longterm.


Try and trade either Gonzalez or Freel. I'm torn on who. Freel makes more money but Gonzo offers less money. One has to go though.


Pitching, you're set with Harang, Arroyo, and Bailey. I'd go out and sign someone who could be a bonafide #3. He's better than a #3, but word is Tom Glavine is going to decline his option in New York. Don't know off hand who else is available. Let Shearn/Belisle/Dumatrait/Ramirez/ and the young promising prospects duke it out for the #5 spot.

Commit to Jared Burton as the closer, or go out and sign one.

Keep Weathers, but not in the closer's role.


Dump Guardado, Coffey, Stanton, Saarloos (AAA?)

Keep Burton, Weathers, Bray, Coutlangus.

Keep Majewski, McBent, and Gosling around to fight for spots.

Go out and sign at least one very good reliever, and another who can hold up their end.

Trade Hatteberg for pitching or prospects. I like him, but there is a log jam.

Sign a bench player who can pinch hit and play the left side of the field. That, or choose to make Hatteberg that player.

Lineup:

C Valentin
1st Votto
2nd Phillips
3rd Encarnacion
SS Keppinger
LF Dunn
CF Hamilton
RF Griffey

Bench:

Cantu
Freel/Gonzo
Ross
Hopper
Hatteberg/free agent



The key will be to be protecting Dunn in the lineup and putting him in a position where he has solid hitters around him. You also have to break up the lefties too though. I'd imagine the lineup looks something like this:


Hamilton
Keppinger
Dunn
Phillips
Griffey
Votto
Encarnacion
Valentin

I'd be tempted to put Phillips at leadoff, but I think it would hurt his production.





So what would you do?
Posted
1 thing about yours: Freel does NOT make more than Gonzalez. Im pretty sure Freels extension put him at like 2 or 2.5 mill a year and Gonzo is getting like 4.5 a year.


I would:

1) Sign Girardi to manager and this leads to Paul Oneil also joining the team as an assistant of Girardis.

2) Pick up Dunns option and trade him after June 20th to one of those teams on his list for anything i can get that can help the team. He will not be here the next year and Bruce is a far better player than Dunn for this team. You can use the first 2 months to ease Bruce in.

3) Trade Freel no doubt. He sucks, he actually has some value and he has no place here anymore. Kepp and Cantu are far better in the INF and Hopper is the better OF option. I think he could get us a decent prospect or a decent MR, if adding a decent prospect to him can make it a decent SP do it.

4) Attempt to trade Hatteberg in a package, with freel, or by himself and try to get a SP, RP, or prospect that has a chance.

5) Sign a solid MR who can help.

6) Attempt to sign a SP who can be a good 4 or decent 3 (not many available though)

7) Work Bray into the closer role.

8) Burton set up.

9) Weathers 7th inning.

10) Bring in a good ass pitching coach who can EFFECTIVELY work with Bailey, Dumatrait, Ramirez, Bray, Burton, Salmon, Coutlangus, Majewski.

11) Bring in someone from the U.S. Army/Marines and whip this teams ass into shape during spring training.

12) Keep an eye out for a prospect available who can play 2B or SS and be a legit leadoff hitter or an OF who can do the same. If one of the potential tradeable guys above can be moved for a leadoff talent prospect and not a quality arm, do it. Team needs a true leadoff hitter.

13) Lock up Phillips until he is 30. (4 or 5 years)

14) Look for a catcher as well, but i dont think there are any to find.


Lineup:
1) Keppinger SS
2) Hamilton CF
3) Griffey (not by my choice, but u know it will happen) RF
4) Phillips 2B
5) Votto 1B
6) Edwin 3B
7) Dunn LF
8) Valentin/Ross C

Another lineup i would use kinda often (at least once a week) and sit dunn:
1) Hopper LF
2) Hamilton CF
3) Griffey RF
4) Phillips 2B
5) Votto 1B
6) Edwin 3B
7) Keppinger SS
8) Valentin/Ross C

Another lineup i would use kinda often (at least once a week) and sit griffey:
1) Hopper LF
2) Keppinger SS
3) Hamilton CF
4) Phillips 2B
5) Votto 1B
6) Edwin 3B
7) Dunn LF
8) Valentin/Ross C


Why bat dunn 7th? not because it helps the team, but because he isnt a part of the future. if they plan on signing him to an extension then 1) that means griffey is gone damn soon and 2) i would then batt him 6th and keppinger 7th. then put hamilton leadoff and phillips second, unless hopper was playing then it would stay as is, but everyone would move up one spot.
Posted
Thurman, thanks for the Freel/Gonzo info. They said Freel was making about $3mill, but I didn't realize Gonzo was making that much.


Another player I forgot about was Jay Bruce.



IMO, you'd keep Freel between the two as you need the infield depth. Cantu only plays 1B and I think either SS or 2B. Hopper doesn't play infield, nor does Ross, and Hatteberg plays first. They need that reserve infielder and Freel can provide that even if he can't hit worth shit anymore. He'd be like, shit I can't remember his name, "Golden Hands". What the heck is his name?? Anyway, him but not as good defense but just as good versatility and a little more offense.
Posted
i fire myself and seek employment elsewhere... perhaps a place where ill be more effective... maybe giving out free french fries at a local burger king or something
Posted
If it were me I would do the following...Of course none of it would, or could happen, but it's good to dream I guess.

Trade Josh Hamilton, Edwin Encarnacion, Johnny Cueto, Phil Dumitrait and Elizardo Ramirez to the Florida Marlins for Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera. Both Willis and Cabrera are on the market. The Marlins are looking for young talent. We would give them 3 young pitchers, as well as a coulpe of young position players.

The next thing I would do following that would be to pick up the option on Scott Hatteberg. Insurance on a young player like Votto isn't a bad thing to have. Hatteberg would be perfect for that.

After that I would decline the option on Adam Dunn. With every intention on putting Cabrera in LF, Dunn wouldn't be needed.

Assuming they were able to throw a couple of million onto the payroll I would look at a couple of players. Eric Gagne, and Kerry Wood. People may think I am crazy for that, but both are talented, and both won't break the bank this year as free agents. The thought behind that, of course, is to secure the back of the bullpen.

Lineup...

#1- Playing CF - Norris Hopper/ Ryan Freel
#2- Playing 3B - Jeff Keppinger
#3- Playing 2B - Brandon Phillips
#4- PLaying LF- Miguel Cabrera
#5- Playing RF- Ken Griffey Jr.
#6- Playing 1B- Joey Votto
#7- Playing SS- Alex Gonzalez
#8- Catching- David Ross/ Javier Valentin

That lineup also has alot of flexibility. Freel can play any of the infield or outfield spots. Keppinger can play any of the infield spots. Cabrera can play 3rd base. There are just alot of different things you could do with that starting 8 if someone were to unfortunately go down with an injury.

As for the Rotation...

#1- Aaron Harang
#2- Dontrelle Willis
#3- Bronson Arroyo
#4- Homer Bailey
#5- Belisle/Livingston/whoever

The first 3 would be something to see. it would put us up there as one of the better starting rotations in baseball. If Bailey were to figure it out it could possibly turn out even better...

The bullpen...

Closer- Eric Gagne or Kerry Wood
Set Up - David Weathers
Middle - Jared Burton

The back of the bullepn would be very solid this way. We tend to lose games late, and this set up would help to eliminate that. If the closer thing were not to work out, you always would have reliable Weathers back there to mop up any mess made.

As for the 25 Man Roster...

[b]Infielders[/b]
Brandon Phillips
Alex Gonzalez
Jeff Keppinger
Joey Votto
Scott Hatteberg
Jorge Cantu

[b]Outfielders[/b]
Ken Griffey Jr.
Miguel Cabrera
Norris Hopper
Ryan Freel

[b]Catchers[/b]
Javier valentin
David Ross

[b]Starting Pitching[/b]
Aaron Harang
Dontrelle Willis
Bronson Arroyo
Homer Bailey
Matt Belisle

[b]Relief Pitching[/b]
David Weathers
Jared Burton
Jon Coutlangus
Bill Bray
Marcus McBeth
Bobby Livingston
Gary Majewski

[b]Closer[/b]
Eric Gagne or Kerry Wood


It looks solid to me...

But...

What the fuck do I know...
Posted
Dontrele Willis blows, and I would rather have Hamilton then Cabrera (Hamilton has to get paid a lot less then cabrera i would imagine), Hamilton is gonna be an MVP caliber player in the next couple years.
Posted
hamilton is not anywhere close to the level of cabrera.

i decline the option of adam dunn, that free's up 13 mill.
eric militon comes off the books thats 8 million
kyle lohse comes off thats another 5 million.

so there alone is 26 million dollars to spend, and thats if they don't add anything at all to the payroll.

phillips is still locked up under arbitration, and probably won't get paid big for another few years, so i would hold off on him.

sign Andruw Jones or Torii Hunter with the money they saved on letting go of Adam Dunn. I realize these guys may not hit as many home runs, but they're more complete players than Adam Dunn, and would really strengthen an already strong defense up the middle, with phillips and gonzalez.

i would then try to sign ivan rodriguez who is great at workin with pitchers, and plays great D and hits well.

then you have a defensive middle of A-Gon, Phillips, I-rod, and Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones, thats simply outstanding.

I would then spend the remaining money to load up the bullpen, Linebrink would be a cheaper one that i'd go after, and i'd try to get a fireballer as well.

Tony LaRussa is the manager i would go after.
Posted
[quote name='Bengals1181' post='563546' date='Oct 4 2007, 09:56 AM']Thurman, thanks for the Freel/Gonzo info. They said Freel was making about $3mill, but I didn't realize Gonzo was making that much.
Another player I forgot about was Jay Bruce.
[b]IMO, you'd keep Freel between the two as you need the infield depth. Cantu only plays 1B and I think either SS or 2B. Hopper doesn't play infield, nor does Ross, and Hatteberg plays first. They need that reserve infielder and Freel can provide that even if he can't hit worth shit anymore. He'd be like, shit I can't remember his name, "Golden Hands". What the heck is his name?? Anyway, him but not as good defense but just as good versatility and a little more offense.[/b][/quote]
Cantu can play 1B, 2B, 3B, OF.

Keppinger can play 1B, 2B, SS, OF.

freel has no spot here.
Posted
[quote name='Broken1' post='563577' date='Oct 4 2007, 11:00 AM']If it were me I would do the following...Of course none of it would, or could happen, but it's good to dream I guess.
[b]
Trade Josh Hamilton, Edwin Encarnacion, Johnny Cueto, Phil Dumitrait and Elizardo Ramirez to the Florida Marlins for Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera. Both Willis and Cabrera are on the market. The Marlins are looking for young talent. We would give them 3 young pitchers, as well as a coulpe of young position players.
[/b]
The next thing I would do following that would be to pick up the option on Scott Hatteberg. Insurance on a young player like Votto isn't a bad thing to have. Hatteberg would be perfect for that.

After that I would decline the option on Adam Dunn. With every intention on putting Cabrera in LF, Dunn wouldn't be needed.

Assuming they were able to throw a couple of million onto the payroll I would look at a couple of players. Eric Gagne, and Kerry Wood. People may think I am crazy for that, but both are talented, and both won't break the bank this year as free agents. The thought behind that, of course, is to secure the back of the bullpen.

Lineup...

#1- Playing CF - Norris Hopper/ Ryan Freel
#2- Playing 3B - Jeff Keppinger
#3- Playing 2B - Brandon Phillips
#4- PLaying LF- Miguel Cabrera
#5- Playing RF- Ken Griffey Jr.
#6- Playing 1B- Joey Votto
#7- Playing SS- Alex Gonzalez
#8- Catching- David Ross/ Javier Valentin

That lineup also has alot of flexibility. Freel can play any of the infield or outfield spots. Keppinger can play any of the infield spots. Cabrera can play 3rd base. There are just alot of different things you could do with that starting 8 if someone were to unfortunately go down with an injury.

As for the Rotation...

#1- Aaron Harang
#2- Dontrelle Willis
#3- Bronson Arroyo
#4- Homer Bailey
#5- Belisle/Livingston/whoever

The first 3 would be something to see. it would put us up there as one of the better starting rotations in baseball. If Bailey were to figure it out it could possibly turn out even better...

The bullpen...

Closer- Eric Gagne or Kerry Wood
Set Up - David Weathers
Middle - Jared Burton

The back of the bullepn would be very solid this way. We tend to lose games late, and this set up would help to eliminate that. If the closer thing were not to work out, you always would have reliable Weathers back there to mop up any mess made.

As for the 25 Man Roster...

[b]Infielders[/b]
Brandon Phillips
Alex Gonzalez
Jeff Keppinger
Joey Votto
Scott Hatteberg
Jorge Cantu

[b]Outfielders[/b]
Ken Griffey Jr.
Miguel Cabrera
Norris Hopper
Ryan Freel

[b]Catchers[/b]
Javier valentin
David Ross

[b]Starting Pitching[/b]
Aaron Harang
Dontrelle Willis
Bronson Arroyo
Homer Bailey
Matt Belisle

[b]Relief Pitching[/b]
David Weathers
Jared Burton
Jon Coutlangus
Bill Bray
Marcus McBeth
Bobby Livingston
Gary Majewski

[b]Closer[/b]
Eric Gagne or Kerry Wood
It looks solid to me...

But...

What the fuck do I know...[/quote]

that would be a horrible trade, not to mention Dtrain BLEW this year because people have figured him out and he is starting to experience some arm problems. Gagne is about done, Wood is about done and between Dtrain, Miguel, Gagne, and Wood we dont have the money to add that. THANK GOD you arent the GM lol.


[quote name='CJandRudiJ' post='563641' date='Oct 4 2007, 01:19 PM']Dontrele Willis blows, and I would rather have Hamilton then Cabrera (Hamilton has to get paid a lot less then cabrera i would imagine), Hamilton is gonna be an MVP caliber player in the next couple years.[/quote]
Dtrain doesnt blow, but he isnt an ace anymore. I dont think Hamilton will ever get the MVP caliber (he would have if he didnt get the 3 years gone), but he is an Allstar OF. I would rather have Hamilton > Cabrera as well. Cabrera is better, BUT Cabrera K's way too much (i dont want more adam dunns), he cant play defense worth a shit, and now he is really out of shape and that will result in injuries soon. Hamilton is in great shape, played well in his first year (injuries were bound to happen since he's hardly done shit for 3 years), has gold glove potential defense with an amazing arm, one of the best eyes at the plate the reds have had in YEARS, has power, hits for avg and has speed. This team doesnt need cabrera AT ALL.


[quote name='mroby85' post='563669' date='Oct 4 2007, 02:25 PM']hamilton is not anywhere close to the level of cabrera.

i decline the option of adam dunn, that free's up 13 mill.
eric militon comes off the books thats 8 million
kyle lohse comes off thats another 5 million.

so there alone is 26 million dollars to spend, and thats if they don't add anything at all to the payroll.

phillips is still locked up under arbitration, and probably won't get paid big for another few years, so i would hold off on him.

sign Andruw Jones or Torii Hunter with the money they saved on letting go of Adam Dunn. I realize these guys may not hit as many home runs, but they're more complete players than Adam Dunn, and would really strengthen an already strong defense up the middle, with phillips and gonzalez.

i would then try to sign ivan rodriguez who is great at workin with pitchers, and plays great D and hits well.

then you have a defensive middle of A-Gon, Phillips, I-rod, and Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones, thats simply outstanding.

I would then spend the remaining money to load up the bullpen, Linebrink would be a cheaper one that i'd go after, and i'd try to get a fireballer as well.

Tony LaRussa is the manager i would go after.[/quote]
ivan rodriguez WILL NOT come to the NL again.

Jones would not help us, nor is he worth the money. No fuckin thanks on Hunter either. Linebrink wont be cheap at all and couldnt afford him with what you are having left for him. And larussa, blah, much rather have girardi or spend the money on the team instead of the coach. larussa isnt worth spending the 4-5 mill on that it will take since we could throw 3 or 4 of that into pitching instead.
Posted
[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='563675' date='Oct 4 2007, 02:43 PM']Cantu can play 1B, 2B, 3B, OF.

Keppinger can play 1B, 2B, SS, OF.

freel has no spot here.[/quote]


if true about cantu, then yea trade freel.
Posted
Just a few comments.

Ryan Freel will be tough to trade. He has an injury history, and is way overpaid for what he would be on a good team.

I would not trade Josh Hamilton for anything less than Josh Beckett. Most scouts considered him the best prospect since A-Rod. Will he reach that level? Tough to say because of the time he was off. But considering how well he played this season after having 15 at bats in the past 5 years, I wouldn't rule it out. He is also the best defensive outfielder in the entire organization.

Personally, I would do my best to trade Griffey to an AL team for a setup guy. If I can do that, I keep Dunn. If I can't, I release Dunn and bring up Jay Bruce. I would start the youth movement in full next season.
Posted
[quote name='Bengals1181' post='563685' date='Oct 4 2007, 03:02 PM']if true about cantu, then yea trade freel.[/quote]
id sign a 40 year old utility INF or bring up a random AAA infielder if that was the HOLDING point in us trading freel
Posted
[i]Youth movement; dump those marketable players that are getting long in the tooth for prospects and hire
coach's for the sole purpose of working on their development. The coach's will work with the manager and inform when their ready for the bigs.

Build through the farm system. No more retreads.

In the market for a solid #1/2 starter and a big right-handed bat. I would love something in a Cabrera/Encarcion
deal, with the understanding that I have a Keppinger as a back-up[/i]
Posted
[quote name='Lawman' post='563822' date='Oct 4 2007, 08:46 PM'][i]Youth movement; dump those marketable players that are getting long in the tooth for prospects and hire
coach's for the sole purpose of working on their development. The coach's will work with the manager and inform when their ready for the bigs.

Build through the farm system. No more retreads.

In the market for a solid #1/2 starter and a big right-handed bat. I would love something in a Cabrera/Encarcion
deal, with the understanding that I have a Keppinger as a back-up[/i][/quote]

Florida is NOT shopping Cabrera and thank GOD because I'd rather have Edwin. Cabrera is not taking care of his body and it will come back to hurt him SOON, he is a HORRIBLE 3B, Edwin has improved his defensive skills a TON and is a good fielding 3B now, he is clutch, and he was HOT as hell to end with the #s he ended with and costs WAY less.
Posted
[quote name='Jamie_B' post='563821' date='Oct 4 2007, 08:45 PM']I'd higher Walt Jocketty.

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3047912"]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3047912[/url][/quote]

Are you sure that's what you want?

[quote]Given Jocketty's unhappiness, his departure isn't surprising
By Bernie Miklasz
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
10/04/2007

Busch Stadium didn't exactly reverberate and wobble at the news that general manager Walt Jocketty was gone after 13 seasons as the point man for one of the game's greatest franchises. But it was big news, and it rocked the foundation of this organization.

If you're looking for me to shred Cardinals Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr., you've come to the wrong place. If you want me to declare that the sky is falling, you'll be disappointed. If you want me to savage Jeff Luhnow as some know-nothing neophyte just because Jocketty didn't care for him, well, you won't be happy.

There are no bad guys here, no heroes or villains.

It's just the end of a once-successful era.

And that's inevitable.

If Vince Lombardi can walk away from the Green Bay Packers, and if Tom Landry can get fired by the Dallas Cowboys, it's proof that all sports golden ages eventually sputter out.

What a magnificent run Jocketty had here. But let's be honest: Jocketty's leadership was showing signs of strain.

And brace yourselves for the departure of manager Tony La Russa, too. Sure, it's possible that La Russa will return, but it would be incredibly awkward for La Russa and a new GM to work with each other. It probably wouldn't be fair to either party. And even if assistant Cardinals GM John Mozeliak is appointed to succeed Jocketty, I'm not sure that will appease La Russa.

After losing his No. 1 ally in Jocketty, and after surviving a brutal and personally draining season, and considering that he was uncertain about returning even before Jocketty's exit, I don't see La Russa renewing his commitment here.

Obviously, DeWitt seeks organizational harmony. I would also have to believe that he senses things are turning stale; the Cardinals are 161-162 over the last two regular seasons, and they have substantial holes to fill.

[b]Jocketty was increasingly unhappy in his job, and he's been in something of a rut. The Mark Mulder trade went bust, some big contracts haven't paid a return, and his number of good moves over the last two years is minimal.[/b]

Given the way this is trending, I can understand why a souring attitude would bother DeWitt and team President Mark Lamping.

Listen, firing Luhnow as director of scouting and player development isn't a sufficient reason to keep Jocketty smiling. Luhnow has done nothing wrong except to try and do the job assigned to him by DeWitt. Luhnow wasn't lunging for power; he wasn't after Jocketty's gig.

Luhnow was performing the same role that Jarmo Kekalainen does for the Blues: organizing the scouting and the drafting in the goal of developing more young talent. And the Cardinals desperately need to do that. Just look at the 2007 postseason teams; the best have a mix of terrific homegrown players and expensive core veterans.

One reason the Cardinals are in rough shape right now is their inability to pump the developmental pipeline with quality talent. Fixing this problem is a necessary objective, and wanting to do so doesn't make DeWitt "cheap," as some fans and critics are saying. Even the Yankees make it a priority to develop their own guys.

Luhnow still has a lot to prove, but he doesn't deserve to be bullied and alienated and treated like scum by Jocketty and associates just because they resent his rise, and he's not part of the inner circle. Let Luhnow do his job; let the GM do his. One man can't do both. The fact that DeWitt already has ruled out Luhnow as a GM candidate to replace Jocketty is telling; Luhnow didn't want Jocketty's desk, and even if he did, he wasn't going to get it.

Luhnow should fail or succeed on his own terms, and not because he's being undermined by others. If Luhnow fails, that's on DeWitt, and DeWitt will be a laughingstock. And if DeWitt does decide to go cheap, I'll call him out on it. But I don't blame DeWitt for wanting improvement in player drafting-development. That's way overdue.

I've written it a bunch of times this season and I'll say it again: I have great respect for Jocketty and La Russa and what they've done for the franchise, but if they are not content here, why continue?

"This is one of the best places in the entire world to live and raise a family," Lamping said. "And you can come here, and you can work in a meaningful leadership role for one of the best franchises in all of sports. You have loyal fans, the best in baseball. A new ballpark. A great owner to work for. A $100 million-plus payroll.

"And you really have a chance to put your mark on something that's very special. That doesn't come along very often. And as I look at the Cardinals job, there's no better job than this. If you add all of those things together, and I may take it a little deeper because I am from here, but I want people who work for the Cardinals to say, 'There is no better place in the world, there is no place I'd rather be than with the St. Louis Cardinals.' So to me, the best (GM) job in baseball is open."

This is, indeed, a fantastic job — especially if DeWitt, as pledged, increases the payroll.

It's also a complicated time for one of MLB's crown-jewel franchises. The Cardinals face genuine concerns over personnel, and it is mandatory to have 100 percent loyalty, devotion and teamwork as they turn and encounter a challenging future.[/quote]

Link: [url="http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/berniemiklasz/story/38E3C3C8FC44829F8625736A0014BD54?OpenDocument"]http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...54?OpenDocument[/url]
Posted
You guys are funny...

Edwin over Cabrera? Hamilton over Cabrera? Those are jokes, right?...

Those are straight homeristic comments...

Also...

The money that we are spending on Dunn equals out to about what we would be spending on Cabrera and Willis. The money issue is, well, it's not an issue...

And...

Willis is done? He'll never be an ace again? He's 25 and experiencing the first bad year of his career. To not want him is to not want this team to improve...
Posted
[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='563839' date='Oct 4 2007, 09:15 PM']Florida is NOT shopping Cabrera and thank GOD because I'd rather have Edwin. Cabrera is not taking care of his body and it will come back to hurt him SOON, he is a HORRIBLE 3B, Edwin has improved his defensive skills a TON and is a good fielding 3B now, he is clutch, and he was HOT as hell to end with the #s he ended with and costs WAY less.[/quote]

[i]Let's take a look:[/i]

[b]Cabrera Will be 25 in April[/b]

[u]2007 ---G --AB --R-- H---2B-3B-[color="#000080"]HR-RBI-TB[/color]---BB-SO-SB-CS-OBP-SLG-AVG[/u]
-----------157-588--91-188-38--2--[color="#000080"]34-119--332[/color]-79-127-2---1 -.401 .565 .320

Quick Splits
[color="#000080"]vs. Left: .364 [/color]vs. Right: .309 Home: .336 Road: .304
Day: .355 Night: .309 Grass: .319 Turf: .333
[color="#000080"]Current Month: .343 Last 30 Days: .343 [/color]

Games/Errors:-154/23

[b]Encarnacion will be 24 in January[/b]

2007-G---AB--R--H---2B-3B-[color="#8B0000"]HR-RBI-TB[/color]--BB-SO-SB-CS-OBP-SLG-AVG
-----139-502-66-145-25-1--[color="#8B0000"]16--76--220[/color]-39-86--8---1--.356-.438-.289

Quick Splits:
[color="#8B0000"] vs. Left: .284 [/color] vs. Right: .291 Home: .270 Road: .309
Day: .279 Night: .293 Grass: .289 Turf: ---
[color="#8B0000"]Current Month: .322 Last 30 Days: .322 [/color]

[i]To claim Cabrera is on the decline is absurd. To fit the money, money will be saved with my youth movement.

Not; Cabrera was an Outfielder converted to 3B, maybe I can shift him back to the outfield (LF) opening up 3b for Kippenger.[/i]

Float Dunn in front of Atlanta for Salmatachia (Chk SP) package/pitcher. Save$$$

2BPhillips
CFHamilton
RFGriffey/ in the fold-Jay Bruce
LFCabrera
3BKippenger
1BVotto
C Salmatachia
SS Gonzalez
Posted
[quote name='Broken1' post='563964' date='Oct 5 2007, 10:02 AM']You guys are funny...

Edwin over Cabrera? Hamilton over Cabrera? Those are jokes, right?...

Those are straight homeristic comments...

Also...

The money that we are spending on Dunn equals out to about what we would be spending on Cabrera and Willis. The money issue is, well, it's not an issue...

And...

Willis is done? He'll never be an ace again? He's 25 and experiencing the first bad year of his career. To not want him is to not want this team to improve...[/quote]
lets see, your trade is fucking stupid and the marlins would tell you to go die for considering to bring that to their attention.

second cabrera and willis will end up getting a lot more than 13 mill combined and if tehy dont, they wouldnt be reds for very long at all.


[quote name='Lawman' post='563967' date='Oct 5 2007, 10:10 AM'][i]Let's take a look:[/i]

[b]Cabrera Will be 25 in April[/b]

[u]2007 ---G --AB --R-- H---2B-3B-[color="#000080"]HR-RBI-TB[/color]---BB-SO-SB-CS-OBP-SLG-AVG[/u]
-----------157-588--91-188-38--2--[color="#000080"]34-119--332[/color]-79-127-2---1 -.401 .565 .320

Quick Splits
[color="#000080"]vs. Left: .364 [/color]vs. Right: .309 Home: .336 Road: .304
Day: .355 Night: .309 Grass: .319 Turf: .333
[color="#000080"]Current Month: .343 Last 30 Days: .343 [/color]

Games/Errors:-154/23

[b]Encarnacion will be 24 in January[/b]

2007-G---AB--R--H---2B-3B-[color="#8B0000"]HR-RBI-TB[/color]--BB-SO-SB-CS-OBP-SLG-AVG
-----139-502-66-145-25-1--[color="#8B0000"]16--76--220[/color]-39-86--8---1--.356-.438-.289

Quick Splits:
[color="#8B0000"] vs. Left: .284 [/color] vs. Right: .291 Home: .270 Road: .309
Day: .279 Night: .293 Grass: .289 Turf: ---
[color="#8B0000"]Current Month: .322 Last 30 Days: .322 [/color]

[i]To claim Cabrera is on the decline is absurd. To fit the money, money will be saved with my youth movement.

Not; Cabrera was an Outfielder converted to 3B, maybe I can shift him back to the outfield (LF) opening up 3b for Kippenger.[/i]

Float Dunn in front of Atlanta for Salmatachia (Chk SP) package/pitcher. Save$$$

2BPhillips
CFHamilton
RFGriffey/ in the fold-Jay Bruce
LFCabrera
3BKippenger
1BVotto
C Salmatachia
SS Gonzalez[/quote]
i said cabrera will be on the decline, i didnt say he is now. he is not taking care of his body and it will come back to haunt him and if you dont agree with that then you are just lying to yourself. Saltalamacchia is long gone. No way does florida trade him anyways and no way would Cabrera sign long term in cincy, he would roll out when he became a FA.


keppinger has been a career dud just because he had a lucky 2nd half of the season doesnt mean you trade away the very talented 24 year old 3B so you can start some 28 year old career dud.
Posted

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='563979' date='Oct 5 2007, 10:30 AM']umm Atlanta traded Saltamachhia to Texas months ago for Texieria.[/quote]
:o

[i]Probably around the time the Reds fell out of contention and my interest wained[/i]. <_<

[i]Hey, that's great news, float DUNN and that kid (catcher) we drafted first in this past years draftfor
Salmattachia.

Why the first rounder, our scouts DO NOT SHIT for gauging talent[/i].

Posted
[quote]he is not taking care of his body and it will come back to haunt him and if you dont agree with that then you are just lying to yourself[/quote]

[i]Find him a nutritionist.[/i]

[quote][b]very talented [/b]24 year old 3B[/quote]

[i]You are entitled to your opinion and he mayeventually live up to the claim. Yes, I conceded he had a better stretch run and I do hope he carry's that into next year.

I am looking for an established plus-power right-handed hitter and a catcher. Pitchingseems to be a crap-shoot anymore.[/i]
Posted
[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='564010' date='Oct 5 2007, 11:19 AM']lets see, your trade is fucking stupid and the marlins would tell you to go die for considering to bring that to their attention.

second cabrera and willis will end up getting a lot more than 13 mill combined and if tehy dont, they wouldnt be reds for very long at all.
i said cabrera will be on the decline, i didnt say he is now. he is not taking care of his body and it will come back to haunt him and if you dont agree with that then you are just lying to yourself. Saltalamacchia is long gone. No way does florida trade him anyways and no way would Cabrera sign long term in cincy, he would roll out when he became a FA.
keppinger has been a career dud just because he had a lucky 2nd half of the season doesnt mean you trade away the very talented 24 year old 3B so you can start some 28 year old career dud.[/quote]


Just a couple of more things...

If Edwin and Hamilton are better than Cabrera, as you said, why would they not be intrested...

Not that it matters...I'm not dumb enough to believe that it would fucking happen anyways...

I'm just wondering....

Also...

You say that Keppinger is a career dud, but in your post on how to fix the Reds he is a staple at SS in all scenario/ lineups....

I don't know why Keppinger never got a look before now, but his minor league numbers bear out the same exact thing that he showed in Cincy this season...he can flat out it...
Posted
[quote name='Broken1' post='564048' date='Oct 5 2007, 12:25 PM']Just a couple of more things...

If Edwin and Hamilton are better than Cabrera, as you said, why would they not be intrested...

Not that it matters...I'm not dumb enough to believe that it would fucking happen anyways...

I'm just wondering....

Also...
[b][b]
You say that Keppinger is a career dud, but in your post on how to fix the Reds he is a staple at SS in all scenario/ lineups....

I don't know why Keppinger never got a look before now, but his minor league numbers bear out the same exact thing that he showed in Cincy this season...he can flat out it...[/b][/b][/quote]
well, the reason for keppinger being a SS in all scenarios is the fact that i dont want Cantu starting at 2B and Phillips at SS. Id rather use Cantu as a power sub and good bat off the bench. SS and C would be our 2 weak spots. I dont think Keppinger will hit better than 280, but ill take a SS that hits 280 and plays decent defense. Thats what i expect out of him. If we could get a SS to come in id prefer it, but i dont see it happening.
Posted
[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='564106' date='Oct 5 2007, 02:44 PM']well, the reason for keppinger being a SS in all scenarios is the fact that i dont want Cantu starting at 2B and Phillips at SS. Id rather use Cantu as a power sub and good bat off the bench. SS and C would be our 2 weak spots. I dont think Keppinger will hit better than 280, but ill take a SS that hits 280 and plays decent defense. Thats what i expect out of him. If we could get a SS to come in id prefer it, but i dont see it happening.[/quote]

[i]I would rather have Gonzales's glove at SS; defense IS one of the sore-spots on this team that needs addressing.

Why would you subtract from that?[/i]

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