Bresnahan still working hard

[|kennethmw|]

I do not think the jury is in on Bres, yet. If this D continues to play like it has been over the last 3 games, then I think he may have an opportunity to continue. My concern with him has always been that his scheme seems to be complicated, and that people have to think too much which inhibits the flow of the D. I was glad to see that Justin said last week that he has simplified the D over the last couple of weeks, which coincided with them getting the same guys playing in the same positions for two(count it, 2) weeks in a row. I think he has a hard row to hoe, though, because the D has been our achilles heel for the last three years, and Donnie has been hanging around. We'll just have to see at the end of the season.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='kennethmw' post='601739' date='Nov 30 2007, 05:37 PM']I do not think the jury is in on Bres, yet. If this D continues to play like it has been over the last 3 games, then I think he may have an opportunity to continue. My concern with him has always been that his scheme seems to be complicated, and that people have to think too much which inhibits the flow of the D. I was glad to see that Justin said last week that he has simplified the D over the last couple of weeks, which coincided with them getting the same guys playing in the same positions for two(count it, 2) weeks in a row. I think he has a hard row to hoe, though, because the D has been our achilles heel for the last three years, and Donnie has been hanging around. We'll just have to see at the end of the season.[/quote]


see, I've always felt that our D is too vanilla as we can never get enough continuity to add in wrinkles.

[Jason]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='601469' date='Nov 30 2007, 09:10 AM']if the defense gets the job done, I could care less who the coordinator is.[/quote]

This is one of the reasons I would rather finish 6-10 than 8-8 this year. Change is needed, and a late surge might make some think otherwise.

[spicoli22]

Who knows how good this defense could've been with Odell, Pollack and Brooks all playing together? I'm guessin pretty fucking good. That's a shitload of lost talent. Oakland had the #2 overall defense in the league under Bres so he's obviously capable. With that being said, I definitely think a change is needed. I think there's some good young athletic talent on that side of the ball and in order to get the most out of it they need to be running a good aggressive scheme. I just don't think that fits poor old Chuckie. Maybe Henderson will fit the bill. I'm sure we'll find out...

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jason' post='601798' date='Nov 30 2007, 08:14 PM']This is one of the reasons I would rather finish 6-10 than 8-8 this year. Change is needed, and a late surge might make some think otherwise.[/quote]


why would changes be needed if the problem gets fixed?


I'm no Chuck fan, but do you really dislike him that much that you would still fire him even if we pitched shutouts for the rest of the season? Obviously, that is unlikely to happen, but my point is, I don't care who the coordinator is as long as the D gets fixed. If its Chuck, that's fine. If its Joe Schmo off the street, that's fine too.


I think we can all agree on that (I would think).




(awaits the "but its not going to happen under chuck" responses.)

[Jason]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='601847' date='Nov 30 2007, 10:53 PM']why would changes be needed if the problem gets fixed?


I'm no Chuck fan, but do you really dislike him that much that you would still fire him even if we pitched shutouts for the rest of the season? Obviously, that is unlikely to happen, but my point is, I don't care who the coordinator is as long as the D gets fixed. If its Chuck, that's fine. If its Joe Schmo off the street, that's fine too.


I think we can all agree on that (I would think).




(awaits the "but its not going to happen under chuck" responses.)[/quote]

My concern is in several past seasons the Bengals would suck for most of the season, and play well at the end of the year. Then people would think "they are getting better, let's not make too many changes", only to suck again the next year (and the year after, and the year after). I don't want to get stuck in that loop again.

[STRAYCAT]

Can't blame chuck for everything. If Pollack was here and Odell was here things would be different.

[Jason]

[quote name='STRAYCAT' post='601978' date='Dec 1 2007, 09:47 AM']Can't blame chuck for everything. If Pollack was here and Odell was here things would be different.[/quote]

Maybe. Maybe not. Our D-line would still be mediocre, and our safeties would still suck. And, as I recall, the year we did have them, we still finished in the 20s in defense.

[cwing]

[quote name='whodey1971' post='601464' date='Nov 30 2007, 08:47 AM']No, No, No!!! Don't believe it! This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that inspired mediocrity (or worse) in the '90's. This defense has not improved. Getting some of the players back from injury has helped...but this defense still has miles to go. Don't let a couple games against two teams spiraling in the wrong direction offer false hope.

I am not trying to be a pessimist. I would much rather see the Bengals finish undefeated and get to 9-7 (even if that is not good enough for the playoffs) than see them finish poorly and get a high draft pick. However - Chuck has already had more than enough time to prove himself. Time for major changes.[/quote]

Funny --------- So many want to fire the coach and state injuries don't matter. When they start improving it has nothing to do with the coaches it is getting those players back. It can't be both ways.

Look ------------ talent makes the coach not the other way around.

[cwing]

[quote name='Jason' post='601979' date='Dec 1 2007, 09:50 AM']Maybe. Maybe not. Our D-line would still be mediocre, and our safeties would still suck. And, as I recall, the year we did have them, we still finished in the 20s in defense.[/quote]

Maybe maybe not -------------- they would both be a year older and hopefully wiser. Point is you and I will never know. I do get tired of hearing of Pollack. They knew he was not going to be here and management should have done something about it. They did however, as well as the rest of the league (according to Merrel Hoge), believe they would have Odell back.

Truth be known this defense could be at least top 20 if not higher just by the following -------- Brooks/Marshall play all year as this allows Geathers to stay at DE all season

As far as the safeties. Williams is not horrible but he is not what I expected and DJax is still ok in run support but is horrible in pass D. The future is in White (slowed by injury early) and Chinny.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='cwing' post='602009' date='Dec 1 2007, 10:46 AM']Maybe maybe not -------------- they would both be a year older and hopefully wiser. Point is you and I will never know. I do get tired of hearing of Pollack. [b]They knew he was not going to be here and management should have done something about it. [/b]They did however, as well as the rest of the league (according to Merrel Hoge), believe they would have Odell back.

Truth be known this defense could be at least top 20 if not higher just by the following -------- Brooks/Marshall play all year as this allows Geathers to stay at DE all season

As far as the safeties. Williams is not horrible but he is not what I expected and DJax is still ok in run support but is horrible in pass D. The future is in White (slowed by injury early) and Chinny.[/quote]

what did you want them to do? I think they felt they had it covered with Jeanty and Henderson, and putting a playmaker like Brooks in the middle. That obviously went to hell though.

[bengalsfan850]

even though there have been improvements we can all agree thats the pass rush needs to improve greatly for this D to move out of the bottom 10 in the league and become a respectable D or even a top 12 D.

we have some soild vets like Dhani and Mike Meyers. and a bunch of young guys who are improving like Hall , JonJoe, Geathers, Jeanty, Duke Nukem, and some other solid guys liek Peko and Medieu

but there are some people who are holding the others back, "you are only as strong as your weakest link" such as Djax, J.T., Justin Smith ( i like him but no way in hell is he worth 8 mil) and of course some of our coaches

we are top rookie DE, a helathy Brooks,a D-coordinator, and a couple better position coaches a way from that

but will we get there?

[AlphaBengal]

This defense can be #1 in the NFL from now until the end of the season. If we don't win the Superbowl with this stiff coaching our defense then he goes. To be perfectly honest, we can win the Superbowl and I will still want our entire coaching staff gone. We've been a franchise who aside from 1 year since 1989 have been a joke. Enough with falling in love with coaches and personal. Its time to buckle the seat belts and do whats right to win. If it means trading Chad Johnson for a 1st rounder pick, a 2nd and a impact defensive player then you do it.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='AlphaBengal' post='602033' date='Dec 1 2007, 11:54 AM']This defense can be #1 in the NFL from now until the end of the season. If we don't win the Superbowl with this stiff coaching our defense then he goes. To be perfectly honest, [b]we can win the Superbowl and I will still want our entire coaching staff gone. [/b]We've been a franchise who aside from 1 year since 1989 have been a joke. Enough with falling in love with coaches and personal. Its time to buckle the seat belts and do whats right to win. If it means trading Chad Johnson for a 1st rounder pick, a 2nd and a impact defensive player then you do it.[/quote]



riiiiiiiiiiight....

[AlphaBengal]

Oh yeah, because Marvin Lewis is such a great coach. He has no discipline and the team has been below average ever since he took over. We need Bill Cowher, thats who we need.

[The Entertainer]

[quote name='AlphaBengal' post='602051' date='Dec 1 2007, 12:45 PM']Oh yeah, because Marvin Lewis is such a great coach. He has no discipline and the team has been below average ever since he took over. We need Bill Cowher, thats who we need.[/quote]

[AlphaBengal]

[quote name='The Entertainer' post='602053' date='Dec 1 2007, 12:49 PM'][/quote]

Oh yes, 1 year over .500 is an amazing feat. Take a look at Cowher, take a look at his record, take a look at the big ring on his finger.

Marvin Lewis will never have a Super Bowl ring, his teams are undisciplined and filled with stiffs who can't coach. Chris Henry anyone? Hes such a well behaved guy.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='AlphaBengal' post='602051' date='Dec 1 2007, 12:45 PM']Oh yeah, because Marvin Lewis is such a great coach. He has no discipline and [b]the team has been below average ever since he took over.[/b] We need Bill Cowher, thats who we need.[/quote]


damn, I could have sworn we went 11-5 and went to the playoffs in one of Marvin's years, and that he's yet to have a losing season.



Underachieving? You could make a case. Below Average? You're out of your damn mind.

[fredtoast]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='602059' date='Dec 1 2007, 01:14 PM']damn, I could have sworn we went 11-5 and went to the playoffs in one of Marvin's years, and that he's yet to have a losing season.



Underachieving? You could make a case. Below Average? You're out of your damn mind.[/quote]

Just ignore him. Anyone that wants to get rid of a coach even if he wins the Super Bowl doesn't care about the team or what happens on the field. He hates Marvin for some other reason that he can't post here.

[JC]

[quote name='AlphaBengal' post='602057' date='Dec 1 2007, 01:00 PM']Oh yes, 1 year over .500 is an amazing feat. Take a look at Cowher, take a look at his record, take a look at the big ring on his finger.

Marvin Lewis will never have a Super Bowl ring, his teams are undisciplined and filled with stiffs who can't coach. Chris Henry anyone? Hes such a well behaved guy.[/quote]


You do understand he took over a team that was 2-14? He has brought this team a pretty long way.


and chris henry is a badass. who cares about how he behaves. There isn't another #3 wr like him in the NFL.

[AlphaBengal]

[quote name='fredtoast' post='602061' date='Dec 1 2007, 01:19 PM']Just ignore him. Anyone that wants to get rid of a coach even if he wins the Super Bowl doesn't care about the team or what happens on the field. He hates Marvin for some other reason that he can't post here.[/quote]

Why would I care about a team that doesn't care about its fans? By-By Eric Steinbach, head on down to a division rival who sadly has a better team than us and will probably win a Super Bowl before us. Marvin is worthless, and so our his teams. 8 players arrested in 1 year? That is a joke, this guy couldn't discipline a day care if you gave him candy.

Your out of your mind if you would rather have Lewis than Bill Cowher. [b]Out of your mind.[/b]

[mongo]

[quote name='AlphaBengal' post='602057' date='Dec 1 2007, 01:00 PM']Oh yes, 1 year over .500 is an amazing feat. Take a look at Cowher, take a look at his record, take a look at the big ring on his finger.

Marvin Lewis will never have a Super Bowl ring, his teams are undisciplined and filled with stiffs who can't coach. Chris Henry anyone? Hes such a well behaved guy.[/quote]


...Marvin Lewis already has a SuperBowl ring...and it took him a lot fewer years of coaching in the League to get it.


I get the frustration, but using Cowher as your champion is a bad move. It took Cowher a ton of years to get his.

[fredtoast]

[quote name='AlphaBengal' post='602064' date='Dec 1 2007, 01:26 PM']Why would I care about a team that doesn't care about its fans? By-By Eric Steinbach, head on down to a division rival who sadly has a better team than us and will probably win a Super Bowl before us. Marvin is worthless, and so our his teams. 8 players arrested in 1 year? That is a joke, this guy couldn't discipline a day care if you gave him candy.

Your out of your mind if you would rather have Lewis than Bill Cowher. [b]Out of your mind.[/b][/quote]


It took Cowher 14 years to win a Super Bowl. I guarantee Marvin will win one quicker than that. Also did you realize that Cowher only had 5 winning seasons in his last 9 years at pissburgh? Pull your head out of the crotch of your Steelly McBeam love doll long enough to give your brain some oxygen. Cowher was no god.

And how can you comment about Marvin when Cowher coached thugs like Santonio Holmes, Barrett Brooks, Joey Porter, and Najeh Dump Truck Davenport? Is Cowher to blame for all of their criminal activity?

Also you want us to keep Steinbach even though he got arrested?

I'm starting to see a pattern here.

What is the difference between Steinbach and every other Bengal that hs been arrested recently? I'll give you a hint. It is the same difference that Marvin has between himself and Cowher and 90% of the other coaches in the NFL.

C'mon Alpha be honest, why would you REALLY like to get rid of Marvin even if he wins a Super Bowl?