More Stuff for Jaime

[Hooky]

[quote name='PutWittyNameHere' post='776978' date='May 18 2009, 02:05 AM']I tried to calculate it, but kept getting a "Divide By Zero" error....

Not real sure what was going on there...[/quote]

So you're unfunny and stupid since you're trying to calculate SB stats for a QB that hasn't been to one. But what does SB appearances have to do with who's the better QB in this case? Ben didn't lead them to the SB, their defense did. And how does Carson's number of SB appearances have anything to do with Ben sucking ass against the Seahawks?

[PutWittyNameHere]

[quote name='Hooky' post='776984' date='May 18 2009, 07:10 AM']So you're unfunny and stupid since you're trying to calculate SB stats for a QB that hasn't been to one. But what does SB appearances have to do with who's the better QB in this case? Ben didn't lead them to the SB, their defense did. And how does Carson's number of SB appearances have anything to do with Ben sucking ass against the Seahawks?[/quote]

I'm unfunny AND stupid?? Geez, I just...I just never realized it before, y'know? All this time, walking through life under the apparent misconception that maybe I was unfunny, or maybe stupid...but [i]certainly[/i] not both. But you've opened my eyes mister Hooky. Oh, have you ever opened my eyes. I now look back at my life, my memories, and wonder if it was all just a hoax, going through each day thinking I was someone I wasn't. Living in a mirage constructed only by the notion that I was someone I wasn't. That world has now collapsed under the weight of the truth. It is now time to build anew; build a better consciousness. A better me. And it's all sparked by you, mister Hooky. I am forever in your debt.

(By the way, I'm REALLY, REALLY bored at work today.... )


Now, back on topic:

Yes, the defense has helped Ben immensely. I'm sure it does wonders for a QB's confidence when he knows that the best D in the league has his back if he screws up. But it's not like the Steelers have him handing the ball off to a RB in big moments. The Steelers had a brutal schedule this past season. They had 10 games decided by 7 points or less (including playoffs). Having watched them all, I can tell you that the plays he makes when the pressure is on are nothing short of impressive. I've personally gotten to the point where I just expect him to lead game winning drives in the final minutes of close games.

Palmer is a very good quarterback. If he can stay healthy, I think he'll put up good numbers this year, whether Chad is traded or not. But we don't know how Palmer reacts in big games. With Ben, we do know. He gets wins. He consistently makes big plays. We may very well never with Palmer given this history of the Bengals.

Yeah, sure, Ben's Super Bowl performance 3 years ago against the Seahawks wasn't very good. You feel free to hang onto that as long as it helps you sleep at night. While you're at it, I want you to conveniently forget the 3 other games (and the plays he made) it took to even get to that Super Bowl. In both the Denver and Indy games of that year, the Steelers came out throwing, putting the game on the shoulders of their second year QB, and we got significant early leads as a direct result.

You can also conveniently forget this year's playoff run, and particularly this past Super Bowl. A game were Ben finished 21 of 30 and completed one of the most historic Super Bowl-winning drives in league history.

By all means, keep discounting these things, the same way your team apparently does. Be happy with your fantasy football star QB. Tell yourself everything will be alright as he throws for 35 tds enroute to another 7-9 season. Keep telling yourself and your friends that it's ok if your team never wins championships because you somehow think they don't play dirty "like everyone else". Convince yourself that they're the only "clean" team in the league, and that alone is what is keeping you from winning. Justify things to your fanbase by agreeing that the league is obviously out to get your team. Surely there's a huge conspiracy out there, right? Goodell's undoubtedly in his office, right now, plotting on how he's going to keep the Bengals down this year! Conspiracies for everyone!

Bad teams blame losing on circumstance. Good teams blame it on themselves, then fix their shortcomings.

Winning franchises count their success in terms of rings. Loser franchises count stats.

When I sign up for fantasy football this year, Palmer will probably make my list of top 5 QB's to take. Ben likely won't make the top 10. If playoffs ever start mattering in my fantasy football league, expect a severe reorganization in rankings.

[Jamie_B]

#2 (and the preseason hasnt even started, hell camp hasnt even started)

[quote][size=5][b]Who Are The Franchise QBs?[/b][/size]
By Matt Bowen
Posted May 19, 2009

What defines a franchise quarterback, and who are the players who fall into that category? Today, I’ll discuss what it means to be a franchise quarterback in the NFL and tell you who they exactly are. The results might surprise you.

[b]The Franchise Definition [/b]

How often do we throw the word “franchise” around when it comes to quarterbacks in the NFL? And do we have an actual definition of what it takes to be that franchise guy in the NFL?

Well, that’s exactly what I’m talking about here today. What defines a franchise quarterback has nothing to do with stats or Super Bowl wins or Pro Bowl appearances — because those tend to be direct reflections of the system that quarterbacks play in, or the situations they fall into.

Sure, you can make a case for a lot of guys who won’t appear on my list, but then again, we need to define the true meaning of what it takes to be a franchise quarterback in this league.

In my definition, a franchise quarterback can walk into any huddle in the NFL, pick up a football and have immediate success.

By saying that, these guys aren’t defined by the system they play in because you don’t have to build a system around them to make them effective. They do it because they can make any throw, run any offense and succeed with any coach and with any type of offensive personnel around them.

Need them to throw it 50 times a game? No problem. Need them to play in a west coast system or a run-first offense and still put points on the board? Again, no problem.

The franchise guys can produce in whatever system they’re put in — no questions asked.

And it has nothing to do with money because every quarterback in this league — especially first-round rookies — makes a good living on Sundays.

So let’s get into this discussion of who is and who isn’t a franchise quarterback in the NFL.

[b]The Franchise Quarterbacks[/b]

1. Peyton Manning, Colts: Manning can walk into any NFL city, pick up the football and march the offense down the field. Yes, he has talent around him in Reggie Wayne, but he did it with Marvin Harrison, and he will continue to do it no matter whom you align on the outside. I love the offensive weapons in Indy, but I also love that Manning could win in St. Louis or Kansas City.


2. Tom Brady, Patriots: Brady gets credit for playing with the talent of the Patriots, but how many different wideouts and different offensive coordinators has he won with? He can do it anywhere, and he doesn’t need a coach to hold his hand.

3. Drew Brees, Saints: Brees will get questioned because of the Saints’ offensive system, but he showed us in a vastly different system in San Diego under Norv Turner that he could get it done. Can produce in the intermediate passing game and in the vertical passing game. You don’t need a script for Brees to succeed.

[b]4. Carson Palmer, Bengals: Palmer has suffered some recent injuries, but it doesn’t hide that fact that, besides the players I just listed, he could walk into any other NFL huddle and win the job. Can make every throw in the book. I watched him during my career, and there aren’t many guys who can play the position like he can. [/b]

5. Philip Rivers, Chargers: Rivers might be considered the wild card of the group, but I’m still strong in my opinion that he belongs there. He is successful despite the limited weapons he has on the outside and can put up numbers even with injuries at the skill positions around him. Yes, he’s young, but he’ll be in this group the rest of his career.

[b]On The Fence[/b]

This group of quarterbacks is almost there, but there’s something in their games that keeps them from making my top group.

1. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers: Forget about the Super Bowl rings because the issue with Roethlisberger is that the Steelers still have to manage him. He plays within the Pittsburgh offensive attack instead of the team building their offense around him.


2. Donovan McNabb, Eagles: McNabb is great because he plays in the west coast system in Philly. However, I don’t see him having the success — or the ability to make all the throws — in another offensive system. His accuracy is always a concern, and I question if he could thrive in a vertical attack.

3. Kurt Warner, Cardinals: Kurt puts up numbers because of the system he plays in. He was great in St. Louis because of Mike Martz and great last season in Arizona because of Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin. But Warner needs a vertical attack to produce, and that was evident when he struggled as the Giants’ quarterback in 2004.

4. Tony Romo, Cowboys: Romo might be paid like the top guys, but we all know that he’s too inconsistent as a passer to be considered a franchise quarterback. I have a lot of questions about his game, and his ability to make the throws when the game, and the season, is on the line.

5. Eli Manning, Giants: Just like Roethlisberger, Manning gets mentioned as a franchise guy because he won a Super Bowl, but we saw last year when he regressed as a passer without Plaxico Burress. He needs players around him on the outside to succeed.

6. Matt Hasselbeck, Seattle: Hasselbeck is great at what he does, which is running the west coast system in the Seattle, but I don’t see him as a quarterback who could produce in different systems. Perfect fit for the Seahawks and a poor fit in multiple NFL cites.

6. Jay Cutler, Bears: Has all the physical tools you want in a franchise quarterback, but the verdict is still out on Cutler — until we see him play and produce with the Bears’ wide receivers. Some think he’s a product of the Broncos’ passing system, but he will have an opportunity to prove me wrong in Chicago if he succeeds in a run-first offense.

[b]Something Still To Prove[/b]

This group of quarterbacks still has a lot to prove when it comes to the NFL game. They have the tools — and have had some success — but still need to show more as their careers progress.


1. Matt Ryan, Falcons: Ryan wowed us last season when he won Offensive Rookie of the Year honors and took the Falcons to the playoffs, but he hasn’t done enough to be considered a franchise quarterback — yet. He has potential written all over him, but until I see it again, I’m holding back.

2. Aaron Rodgers, Packers: Rodgers is in the same boat as Ryan, as he sat behind Brett Favre until last season, but I like his game as his career moves forward. To get into the top category, he needs to win more than six games and needs to make plays in the fourth quarter.

3. Matt Cassel, Chiefs: Cassel was a product of the talent in New England and relied on wide receivers Randy Moss and Wes Welker. If he puts up big numbers in Kansas City, I’ll be a believer. But until then, he’s still on the outside looking in.[/quote]



[url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/05/who-are-the-franchise-qbs/"]http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/0...-franchise-qbs/[/url]

[bammorrisgotmehigh]

[url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/The-Shutdown-Five-Most-clutch-quarterbacks-in-t;_ylt=Ato5PyflT1yFLyIs4rPhSj1DubYF?urn=nfl,164119"]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_...?urn=nfl,164119[/url]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='777620' date='May 20 2009, 01:36 PM'][url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/The-Shutdown-Five-Most-clutch-quarterbacks-in-t;_ylt=Ato5PyflT1yFLyIs4rPhSj1DubYF?urn=nfl,164119"]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_...?urn=nfl,164119[/url]

[/quote]


So Im one up on you for this year.

[bammorrisgotmehigh]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='777640' date='May 20 2009, 02:36 PM']So Im one up on you for this year. [/quote]


Does this make it a tie?

[img]http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090521/capt.9b960f86de5d4428a23505b56c3fccf8.obama_steelers_whcd127.jpg[/img]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='778060' date='May 21 2009, 10:17 PM']Does this make it a tie?

[img]http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090521/capt.9b960f86de5d4428a23505b56c3fccf8.obama_steelers_whcd127.jpg[/img][/quote]


What does last year have to do with this year?

[bammorrisgotmehigh]

[url="http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2009/cheatsheets.cfm?player_pos=QB"]http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2009/che...m?player_pos=QB[/url]

[url="http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/story/11692596"]http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfo.../story/11692596[/url]

[Jamie_B]

fantasy football?

lolz

[oftt4]

[quote name='PutWittyNameHere' post='777079' date='May 18 2009, 02:23 PM']Yeah, sure, Ben's Super Bowl performance 3 years ago against the Seahawks wasn't very good. You feel free to hang onto that as long as it helps you sleep at night. While you're at it, I want you to conveniently forget the 3 other games (and the plays he made) it took to even get to that Super Bowl. In both the Denver and Indy games of that year, the Steelers came out throwing, putting the game on the shoulders of their second year QB, and we got significant early leads as a direct result.

You can also conveniently forget this year's playoff run, and particularly this past Super Bowl. A game were Ben finished 21 of 30 and completed one of the most historic Super Bowl-winning drives in league history.

By all means, keep discounting these things, the same way your team apparently does. Be happy with your fantasy football star QB. Tell yourself everything will be alright as he throws for 35 tds enroute to another 7-9 season. Keep telling yourself and your friends that it's ok if your team never wins championships because you somehow think they don't play dirty "like everyone else". Convince yourself that they're the only "clean" team in the league, and that alone is what is keeping you from winning. Justify things to your fanbase by agreeing that the league is obviously out to get your team. Surely there's a huge conspiracy out there, right? Goodell's undoubtedly in his office, right now, plotting on how he's going to keep the Bengals down this year! Conspiracies for everyone!

Bad teams blame losing on circumstance. Good teams blame it on themselves, then fix their shortcomings.

Winning franchises count their success in terms of rings. Loser franchises count stats.

When I sign up for fantasy football this year, Palmer will probably make my list of top 5 QB's to take. Ben likely won't make the top 10. If playoffs ever start mattering in my fantasy football league, expect a severe reorganization in rankings.[/quote]


LOL. You just summed this website up perfectly.

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='777640' date='May 20 2009, 02:36 PM']So Im one up on you for this year. [/quote]

So the link from the first post doesnt count then? The link from post #8 also doesnt count? Both of those articles were from this year.

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='778221' date='May 22 2009, 02:39 PM']fantasy football?

lolz[/quote]

And this is the funniest post yet...since fantasy football is the one and only argument you guys have had in your favor over the last few years. Somehow, now that it has turned against you it doesnt count any more.

I am sensing a trend here....

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='778736' date='May 26 2009, 10:20 AM']LOL. You just summed this website up perfectly.



So the link from the first post doesnt count then? The link from post #8 also doesnt count? Both of those articles were from this year.



And this is the funniest post yet...since fantasy football is the one and only argument you guys have had in your favor over the last few years. Somehow, now that it has turned against you it doesnt count any more.

I am sensing a trend here....[/quote]


the year starts after the draft when teams for the most part are put together

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='778749' date='May 26 2009, 11:01 AM']the year starts after the draft when teams for the most part are put together[/quote]

I see.

Maybe I should just write down all the rules of what counts and what doesnt....though it seems to change on a weekly basis.

1. Wins dont count. Even though Ben has won more games in his first 5 years than any other QB in the history of the NFL, it is all because of his team.

2. Playoffs dont count. Even though Ben is 8-2 in the playoffs, well...see rule 1.

3. Superbowls dont count. Despite the fact that Ben has won 2 Superbowls (something only a handful of Qb's in 43 years can claim), Ben = Trent Dilfer.

3a. Rule 3 can be disregarded (i.e. Superbowls DO count) only when it pertains to Ben's passer rating in SBXL which was the lowest of all time, despite there being several that were actually lower.

4. Having two Pro Bowl receivers on your team doesnt have any positive effect on your statistics, but having a good defense does.

5. Fantasy rankings used to count, but now dont.

6. Palmer having a bad O-line is a point in his favor, but Ben having a bad O-line is meaningless because he is mobile (which in and of itself in not a point in his favor).

7. Jaworski is the best sportswriter, unless he says Palmer is no longer elite...at which point he becomes irrelavent.

8. Peter King is biased against the Bengals, so his opinion doesnt count. This rule also applies to James Walker.

9. The "year" starts after the draft, so any comments made before that are null and void. I'm not sure how this affects how a QB is ranked...but rules are rules.

10. For some reason I can quite recall, Cold Hard Football Facts opinions also dont count.

11. Palmer's 2008 season (0-4, 69.0 passer rating, more INT's than TD's) doesnt count because his elbow was hurt. However, Ben's 2006 season is the one that most accurately illustrates his talent level despite his enduring a motorcycle accident, appendicitis, and a concussion.


Updated 3/27

Did I miss anything?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='778774' date='May 26 2009, 01:05 PM']I see.

Maybe I should just write down all the rules of what counts and what doesnt....though it seems to change on a weekly basis.

1. Wins dont count.

2. Playoffs dont count.

3. Superbowls dont count (unless of course it pertains to Ben's passer rating in SBXL)

4. Having two Pro Bowl receivers on your team doesnt have any positive effect on your statistics.

5. Fantasy rankings used to count, but now dont.

6. Palmer having a bad O-line is a point in his favor, but Ben having a bad O-line is meaningless because he is mobile (which somehow is not actually a point in his favor).

7. Jaworski is the best sportswriter, unless he says Palmer is no longer elite...at which point he becomes irrelavent.

8. Peter King is biased against the Bengals, so his opinion doesnt count.

9. The "year" starts after the draft, so any comments made before that are null and void. I'm not sure how this makes any difference in how a QB is ranked...but rules are rules.

10. For some reason I can quite recall, Cold Hard Football Facts opinions also dont count.



Did I miss anything?[/quote]


Yes, your an moron.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='778778' date='May 26 2009, 01:18 PM']Yes, your an moron.[/quote]

Oh, I almost forgot....


11. Palmer's 2008 season (0-4, 69.0 passer rating, more INT's than TD's) doesnt count because his elbow was hurt. However, Ben's 2006 season is the one that most accurately illustrates his talent level despite his enduring a motorcycle accident, appendicitis, and a concussion.

Sorry...it's hard to keep track of them all.

[bammorrisgotmehigh]

6

[JC]

[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='778796' date='May 26 2009, 02:21 PM']6[/quote]
7

[quote name='JC' post='778911' date='May 27 2009, 01:33 AM']7[/quote]
8

[quote name='JC' post='778911' date='May 27 2009, 01:33 AM']8[/quote]
9

[oftt4]

[quote name='JC' post='778911' date='May 27 2009, 01:34 AM']7


8


9[/quote]


Those will come soon....

[oftt4]

[url="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9601836/Ranking-the-NFL:-Insider-grading-on-every-franchise"]http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9601836...every-franchise[/url]


Well, here's another one. Pittsburgh gets a 9.5 for QB, Cinci gets a 9.

It is right there for the reading (and watching), pretty clear...the only think I dont know is why this article wont count.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='779328' date='May 29 2009, 08:18 AM'][url="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9601836/Ranking-the-NFL:-Insider-grading-on-every-franchise"]http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9601836...every-franchise[/url]


Well, here's another one. Pittsburgh gets a 9.5 for QB, Cinci gets a 9.

It is right there for the reading (and watching), pretty clear...the only think I dont know is why this article wont count.[/quote]


So 2-2. Its still early.

[Vol_Bengal]

Adam Schein...


He's a freakin clown!!! He even looks like one.


So, are we just going and grabbing any and all articles / videos supporting each other's positions? Be they from a fantasy football website, a legit football writer (Kirwan, Brandt, Shefter, etc.), or a hack???

[oftt4]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='779376' date='May 29 2009, 12:23 PM']Adam Schein...


He's a freakin clown!!! He even looks like one.


So, are we just going and grabbing any and all articles / videos supporting each other's positions? Be they from a fantasy football website, a legit football writer (Kirwan, Brandt, Shefter, etc.), or a hack???[/quote]


Shall I add Adam Schein to the "doesnt count" list? (I do agree that he looks and acts like a jackass)



Fantasy doesnt count, by the way. At least not any more.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='oftt4' post='779379' date='May 29 2009, 12:34 PM']Shall I add Adam Schein to the "doesnt count" list? (I do agree that he looks and acts like a jackass)



Fantasy doesnt count, by the way. At least not any more.[/quote]

I don't give a shit what you do, to be honest... does it really matter? I get the sensation of beating my head against a fence post either arguing or reading the back and forth between yourself and several other BENGAL fans... you know posting on a BENGALS website.

I mean, you're a Steelers fan, on a Bengals board, arguing how great your quarterback is...

AND, it isn't like it is a one time occurrence. That is what is funny.


I was just trying to get a clarification before you started posting blog postings, etc. or articles from www.behindthesteelcurtain.com as authoritative material to support your arguments.

[bammorrisgotmehigh]

Do the Madden rankings from the main board count?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='779525' date='May 30 2009, 10:48 AM']Do the Madden rankings from the main board count? [/quote]




Madden? Really?

[oftt4]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='779403' date='May 29 2009, 02:53 PM']I don't give a shit what you do, to be honest... does it really matter? I get the sensation of beating my head against a fence post either arguing or reading the back and forth between yourself and several other BENGAL fans... you know posting on a BENGALS website.

I mean, you're a Steelers fan, on a Bengals board, arguing how great your quarterback is...

AND, it isn't like it is a one time occurrence. That is what is funny.


I was just trying to get a clarification before you started posting blog postings, etc. or articles from www.behindthesteelcurtain.com as authoritative material to support your arguments.[/quote]

I have explained this before...I like debating/arguing. I come here because people have different opinions than mine.

I keep it in this forum, so if all you want to read is Bengals fans stroking each other...stay in the other forum.

This particular "competition" started between Jamie and I last year. I think it is funny, and he seems to be a good sport about it. If you dont like it, nobody is forcing you to read it.

Buh-bye.