The Glenn Beck Apocalypse

[BengalBacker]

[quote name='Lucid' date='19 March 2010 - 06:35 AM' timestamp='1269002137' post='871612']
Why? As a satire? Surely you don't buy into his outrageous non sense?

That would be baffling, because you seem like a rational person.. And Beck is insane.
[/quote]

No, not as satire. I agree with ALMOST everything he says. I think I am a rational person, and I think Beck is a pretty normal guy. I don't think he's a genius, but he's certainly not insane. I've heard him say many things that are basically the same things Homer has been saying here for years.

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='19 March 2010 - 07:00 AM' timestamp='1269003605' post='871621']
Yes telling Christians to leave their church if they preach social or economic justice, which is just "code words" for Marxism (has beck even read the bible??), certainly "rocks".

I'm not even sure Joseph McCarthy took it that far.
[/quote]

He has a point. Social and economic justice IS the battle cry of the left. He, and I, believe that the left is trying like hell to turn us into a socialist nation. Most of you who are bashing him in this thread, have said more than once in here, something to the effect of, 'what's so wrong with socialism?'. Glenn Beck comes on and says, 'look, these guys are socialists' because, well, they are. Many of you want to push us toward a more socialist society.

There aren't just signs, there are neon flashing fucking billboards telling us that we are headed toward socialism/fascism/totalitarianism/oneworldweareallfuckedism. That's what Glenn Beck's message is. He thinks Republicans are fucked up too, even though he leans to the right on most issues. Just like me. He claims to be Libertarian. I don't claim to be anything, but Libertarians seem to be the only party supporting personal freedom.

We need a common fucking sense party.

Plus, I think Christians would have left their church long ago if they used reason, rather than emotion and gullibility as their guide. Prime targets for propaganda.

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='19 March 2010 - 09:57 AM' timestamp='1269014264' post='871689']
John Stewart is hilarious

[url="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-18-2010/intro---progressivism-is-cancer"]http://www.thedailys...ivism-is-cancer[/url]

[url="http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-18-2010/conservative-libertarian"]http://www.thedailys...ive-libertarian[/url]
[/quote]

He does a very funny imitation of Beck's mannerisms and style, but that doesn't mean there is no substance to what Beck says.

For guys like Stewart, Colbert, Olbermann and Maher, Glenn Beck is the perfect target. They make their living making fun of anything considered to the right politically.

[quote name='Homer_Rice' date='19 March 2010 - 10:04 AM' timestamp='1269014646' post='871692']
Earthquakes rock, too.

I was driving across town the other morning and was listening to his show. I don't have all that much exposure to the fellow, but he strikes me as having one overriding principle--to promote Glenn Beck. Not unlike Limbaugh and Olbermann. With all of these guys, there's an undertone of "to hell with the hindmost" that doesn't appeal to me. For some reason, they make me think of mudskippers.
[/quote]

The one thing that bothers me about him, is he is definitely doing all he can to sell himself and cash in. Yet I still think he's genuine, and I still think he's mostly right. I'd love to see him donate the proceeds of his next book or two to a worthy cause. Something that all sides of all issues can support. Would add to his legitimacy. But I feel the same way about all of the actors and stars who make millions and live like rock stars, while bitching about rich people who don't deserve their money.


[quote name='Jamie_B' date='19 March 2010 - 10:22 AM' timestamp='1269015726' post='871696']
[url="http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/267673/march-18-2010/glenn-beck-attacks-social-justice---james-martin"]http://www.colbertna...---james-martin[/url]

Love Stephen Colbert too.
[/quote]

These guys are entertaining and funny, but again, they are at the very least, left leaning comedians. They are playing to the left leaning audience who only knows that he's on FAUX News, and apparently he doesn't like Obama. He must be a right wing Nazi.

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='19 March 2010 - 12:35 PM' timestamp='1269023751' post='871719']
[img]http://www.carolinapoliticsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/glennbeck.jpg[/img]

[size="5"]Memphis Women and Fried Chicken??

Nation lets take a look at these code words....

Memphis Women
Fried Chicken

Now if we look just a bit closer

Fried Women
Memphis Chicken

You see Homer here wants to fry your women!! You know who else fried women? .... Hitler

And Memphis Tennessee is only 381 miles from Louisville Kentucky where the famous Colonel Sanders, father of Kentucky Fried Chicken is head-quartered. Colonel Sanders?? ...as in the Army?? ... as in the RED ARMY!!!!....THE SAME RED ARMY OF JOSEPH STALIN!!!!

There are also only 999 miles from Moscow to Berlin...999....666...

Homer is a Nazi, Communist, Satan Worshiper!!!!!![/size]
[/quote]

Yeah, see, that's exactly what Glenn Beck does.

[quote name='#22' date='19 March 2010 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1269045690' post='871779']
[media][url="http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p222/the_x-phile/ObviousTroll.jpg"]http://i129.photobuc...bviousTroll.jpg[/url][/media]



I thought it was pretty funny. and I don't think Jon Stewart belongs in the same group, by the way.
[/quote]

If the troll pic is directed at me, I'm not trolling, I'm serious.




I think all of you are reasonable, intelligent people. I think we all have different perspectives. I actually think that oneworldweareallfuckedism is inevitable. The best I can hope for is to postpone it.

While Capitalism has its consequences, I think it's the only way to have freedom. Capitalism with reasonable and purposeful regulation, along with a reasonable and purposeful safety net is the best a society can hope for. The problem is, technology has made the world so small its physical size is irrelevant. The world's economy could collapse tomorrow. In some form, it probably will before we all are dead. Maybe even soon. Just ask Homer.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='BengalBacker' date='20 March 2010 - 05:15 AM' timestamp='1269076520' post='871820']
No, not as satire. I agree with ALMOST everything he says. I think I am a rational person, and I think Beck is a pretty normal guy. I don't think he's a genius, but he's certainly not insane. I've heard him say many things that are basically the same things Homer has been saying here for years.



He has a point. Social and economic justice IS the battle cry of the left. He, and I, believe that the left is trying like hell to turn us into a socialist nation. Most of you who are bashing him in this thread, have said more than once in here, something to the effect of, 'what's so wrong with socialism?'. Glenn Beck comes on and says, 'look, these guys are socialists' because, well, they are. Many of you want to push us toward a more socialist society.

There aren't just signs, there are neon flashing fucking billboards telling us that we are headed toward [b]socialism/fascism/[/b]totalitarianism/oneworldweareallfuckedism. That's what Glenn Beck's message is. He thinks Republicans are fucked up too, even though he leans to the right on most issues. Just like me. He claims to be Libertarian. I don't claim to be anything, but Libertarians seem to be the only party supporting personal freedom.


[/quote]

You realize these are conflicting ideologies? And Totalitarianism is a form of executive government, whereas socialism is an economic model. And People in Sweden, heck even Canada, I think would disagree with you telling them they aren't free.

I'm not trying to advocate Socialism.. I have a l lot of respect for you, but I really don't think you know what you are talking about here.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BengalBacker' date='20 March 2010 - 05:15 AM' timestamp='1269076520' post='871820']
He has a point. Social and economic justice IS the battle cry of the left. He, and I, believe that the left is trying like hell to turn us into a socialist nation. Most of you who are bashing him in this thread, have said more than once in here, something to the effect of, 'what's so wrong with socialism?'. Glenn Beck comes on and says, 'look, these guys are socialists' because, well, they are. Many of you want to push us toward a more socialist society.

There aren't just signs, there are neon flashing fucking billboards telling us that we are headed toward socialism/fascism/totalitarianism/oneworldweareallfuckedism. That's what Glenn Beck's message is. He thinks Republicans are fucked up too, even though he leans to the right on most issues. Just like me. He claims to be Libertarian. I don't claim to be anything, but Libertarians seem to be the only party supporting personal freedom.

We need a common fucking sense party.

Plus, I think Christians would have left their church long ago if they used reason, rather than emotion and gullibility as their guide. Prime targets for propaganda.
[/quote]

No he doesn't have a point, social justice is at the heart of what it means to be a Christian, and we all have differing views on government role in helping others, I dont think you would find any christian who would disagree we are obligated to help the poor. Beck has just become so wrapped up in his "blue state scare" that anything that is even remotely talking about removing your money from your wallet and using it to help others is socailism. He is wrong. But if we do have socialism in this country it's socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest of us.

We will have to disagree on that last line.

[quote]
He does a very funny imitation of Beck's mannerisms and style, but that doesn't mean there is no substance to what Beck says.

For guys like Stewart, Colbert, Olbermann and Maher, Glenn Beck is the perfect target. They make their living making fun of anything considered to the right politically.
[/quote]


[quote]
These guys are entertaining and funny, but again, they are at the very least, left leaning comedians. They are playing to the left leaning audience who only knows that he's on FAUX News, and apparently he doesn't like Obama. He must be a right wing Nazi.
[/quote]

Ill take Olberman and Maher out of it as Ive not ever seen them go after guys on the left so I cant comment. But Stewart, while leaning left, has gone after democrats when they fuck up too.

Actually John Stewart has a point in his latest impression, that just because you subscribe to an idea does not mean you subscribe to the entire line of thinking of that idea, a person can believe that goverment has a role in how much lead should be in our paint, or other regulations, without desiring total goverment control. Just because I think its a good idea to regulate the banking industry doest mean I want to put a chip in your brain to control when you masterbate.


[quote]
Yeah, see, that's exactly what Glenn Beck does.
[/quote]


Oh I was just having a little fun doing my impression of john stewart doing his impression.

[BengalBacker]

[quote name='Lucid' date='20 March 2010 - 05:28 AM' timestamp='1269084492' post='871824']
You realize these are conflicting ideologies? And Totalitarianism is a form of executive government, whereas socialism is an economic model. And People in Sweden, heck even Canada, I think would disagree with you telling them they aren't free.

I'm not trying to advocate Socialism.. I have a l lot of respect for you, but I really don't think you know what you are talking about here.
[/quote]

I understand that all of these 'isms' are different, but the thing they all have in common is more government control of its people. I believe the people should control their governments, not the other way around.

I don't think comparing Sweden or Canada to the US is a valid comparison. Nobody cares about them except them. They have different roles in the world than we do. Things that might work there, don't necessarily work here.

I have a lot of respect for you too Lucid, FWIW.

[BengalBacker]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='20 March 2010 - 08:12 AM' timestamp='1269094376' post='871838']
No he doesn't have a point, social justice is at the heart of what it means to be a Christian, and we all have differing views on government role in helping others, I dont think you would find any christian who would disagree we are obligated to help the poor. Beck has just become so wrapped up in his "blue state scare" that anything that is even remotely talking about removing your money from your wallet and using it to help others is socailism. He is wrong. But if we do have socialism in this country it's socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest of us.

We will have to disagree on that last line.






Ill take Olberman and Maher out of it as Ive not ever seen them go after guys on the left so I cant comment. But Stewart, while leaning left, has gone after democrats when they fuck up too.

Actually John Stewart has a point in his latest impression, that just because you subscribe to an idea does not mean you subscribe to the entire line of thinking of that idea, a person can believe that goverment has a role in how much lead should be in our paint, or other regulations, without desiring total goverment control. Just because I think its a good idea to regulate the banking industry doest mean I want to put a chip in your brain to control when you masterbate.





Oh I was just having a little fun doing my impression of john stewart doing his impression.
[/quote]

You really should start watching his show Jamie. Friday's show was about Faith, Hope and Charity. He's a big advocate of faith and religion, and he definitely believes in charity and helping those who need help. That doesn't mean a Robinhood mentality is the way. Stealing from the rich to give to the poor is still stealing. (My words, not his) People should help the poor and downtrodden because they want to, not because someone has a gun to their head. I'm all for safety nets, and giving people opportunity. Crushing the rich and hating successful people will only lead to all of us being poor, with no hope of creating a better life for you and your family.

People need to feel there's a brass ring out there that they can grab.




I'm working 11-12 hour days right now, sometimes seven days a week, (like now) so I don't have time to post much here, or anywhere. Hopefully it will ease up soon and I can find time to express myself better here.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BengalBacker' date='22 March 2010 - 01:58 AM' timestamp='1269237492' post='872042']
You really should start watching his show Jamie. Friday's show was about Faith, Hope and Charity. He's a big advocate of faith and religion, and he definitely believes in charity and helping those who need help. That doesn't mean a Robinhood mentality is the way. Stealing from the rich to give to the poor is still stealing. (My words, not his) People should help the poor and downtrodden because they want to, not because someone has a gun to their head. I'm all for safety nets, and giving people opportunity. Crushing the rich and hating successful people will only lead to all of us being poor, with no hope of creating a better life for you and your family.

People need to feel there's a brass ring out there that they can grab.




I'm working 11-12 hour days right now, sometimes seven days a week, (like now) so I don't have time to post much here, or anywhere. Hopefully it will ease up soon and I can find time to express myself better here.
[/quote]

Here is the thing. There are structural issues that make it harder for some to get out of things than others, when those of use want to address that we get accused of socialsm or marxism by people like Beck, its why I think he is the new Joseph McCarthy.

[Jamie_B]

Beck is loony tunes...

The week of "bringing the hammer" started yesterday.

Here is some of the video...

http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/24/video-glenn-beck-begins-to-hammer/

And here is Jim's response

http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/24/what-glenn-beck-doesnt-understand-about-biblical-social-justice/

(too many links in Jim's response)


Seriously loony tunes.

[Sigfox09]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='22 March 2010 - 09:02 AM' timestamp='1269262972' post='872068']
Here is the thing. There are structural issues that make it harder for some to get out of things than others, when those of use want to address that we get accused of socialsm or marxism by people like Beck, its why I think he is the new Joseph McCarthy.
[/quote]








On the flipside of that argument there are also plenty of programs and incentives available for minority folks that take it upon themselves to get ahead. I work in NYC on a regular basis and majority of the small business there are all minority owned. At a certain juncture it is dependent upon the individual as to whether or not they will succeed. Life, liberty and the [b]pursuit[/b] of happiness is guranteed for all citizens that doesnt mean that all will achieve it.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Sigfox09' date='24 March 2010 - 03:27 PM' timestamp='1269458850' post='872775']
On the flipside of that argument there are also plenty of programs and incentives available for minority folks that take it upon themselves to get ahead. I work in NYC on a regular basis and majority of the small business there are all minority owned. At a certain juncture it is dependent upon the individual as to whether or not they will succeed. Life, liberty and the [b]pursuit[/b] of happiness is guranteed for all citizens that doesnt mean that all will achieve it.
[/quote]


Where did I say anything different??

[BengalBacker]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='24 March 2010 - 12:44 PM' timestamp='1269456289' post='872757']
Beck is loony tunes...

The week of "bringing the hammer" started yesterday.

Here is some of the video...

[url="http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/24/video-glenn-beck-begins-to-hammer/"]http://blog.sojo.net...gins-to-hammer/[/url]

And here is Jim's response

[url="http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/24/what-glenn-beck-doesnt-understand-about-biblical-social-justice/"]http://blog.sojo.net...social-justice/[/url]

(too many links in Jim's response)


Seriously loony tunes.
[/quote]

You really should start watching his show regularly. or at least a few times instead of forming your opinion of him based on a few clips, and opinions of people who hate him. Of course you're a socialist, so you won't agree with him, or you will refuse to acknowledge the points he makes, but at least you would have something to base your hatred on.

He's not looney tunes. He's one of the few sane people in the media.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BengalBacker' date='25 March 2010 - 03:49 AM' timestamp='1269503345' post='872885']
You really should start watching his show regularly. or at least a few times instead of forming your opinion of him based on a few clips, and opinions of people who hate him. Of course [color="#FF0000"]you're a socialist[/color], so you won't agree with him, or you will refuse to acknowledge the points he makes, but at least you would have something to base your hatred on.

He's not looney tunes. He's one of the few sane people in the media.
[/quote]

[Jamie_B]

Anyway I do have some questions myself..

Did you notice how things were taken out of context in what Beck said about Wallis? Do you think Beck just didn't know the context?

Wallis has said he would love to have a dialog about this and that he would come on the show, do you think beck would bring him on or does he just want a monologue where he cant defend the smear campaign he is doing?



Ok so their rhetorical questions.

[Jamie_B]

Still looking for yesterday's Beck program online, but I want to say I'm glad he did this, it gives Wallis a chance to put elequently what many of us belive, I hope Beck isnt afraid of having him on his show for dialoge as opposed to monolouge, but I doubt it.


Day 2 response by Wallis

http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/25/glenn-beck-martin-luther-king-and-gandhi/

[quote]
[size="5"]Glenn Beck on Martin Luther King and Gandhi[/size]

Given Glenn Beck’s threat that “the hammer is coming,” I have been keeping my eyes and ears open to see and hear what attacks he might next make on us or the growing movement of Christians who share with us the call to faith-based social justice. Well, imagine my delight when I heard Glenn offer words of praise on his show last night for Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Mahatma Gandhi! For people like me, who first felt drawn to the struggle for social justice over the sins of racism, Dr. King remains more than a mentor. He was deeply committed to the transformation (one of Glenn Beck’s bad words) of unjust societal structures, recognizing that love also marches for justice. For Dr. King, as for me, engaging the struggle for social justice was not something we add to the gospel of Jesus, but rather is integral to what it means to follow Christ.

I was heartened to hear Beck affirm the nonviolence of King, but I would also like to remind him of King’s tireless commitment to social justice. Dr. King was the archetypal “social justice Christian,” and the one from whom most of the rest of us have drawn inspiration. So then, what’s so wrong with “social justice Christians?” King inspired me to build movements for change, not to build big and tyrannical governments as Beck has been charging us as wanting to do. King clearly called for more than private charity: he called for the changing of structures and yes, for using the “government” to end racial segregation and establish voting rights for our African-American citizens. And it was King acting in what he believed to be obedience to God, not a preference for totalitarian governments, that led to remarkable achievements of helping to realize a more just society.

But Beck should remember that the primary attack on Dr. King in the fifties and sixties was that he was a “Marxist” and a “Communist.” Billboards throughout the South depicted King at a “communist training camp,” which, of course, wasn’t true. So Glenn, you should be much more careful whom you label as communist, Marxist, or socialist — or whom you accuse of using the term “progressive” as just a clever guise for hiding totalitarian communist intentions. Dr. King was the leading “progressive” in our nation’s history, and a progressive Christian at that. So thank you for lifting him up as a model, but be careful whom you call a communist.

Perhaps you should stop throwing all those words around on your show every night, against whomever you disagree with, even the president. Wouldn’t it be better to actually look at what people really think and say ([color="#FF0000"]not the doctored and edited clips you keep using[/color])? And by the way, my offer of a civil and respectful conversation with you on the meaning of social justice still stands.

Beck went on to praise the work of Gandhi, another of my heroes. It was Dr. King who once said that the gospel of Jesus gave him the motivation for his work, and Gandhi who gave him the method — nonviolent resistance. For my whole ministry, I have shared with King and Gandhi that dual commitment — both to resist unjust social structures and to use nonviolence as the means of change. When I was a young activist in the 1960s — the people and the period that Beck criticized tonight — I was a disciple of King and strongly opposed the violence of those in groups like the Weather Underground. By the way Glenn, I was never a member of SDS (Students for Democratic Society — another Fox research fact that should have been checked!), but I did indeed march for civil rights and against the war in Vietnam — just as King did.

So I offer a hearty amen to Beck’s praise for these two giants of social justice. In fact, I can go a step further. Glenn encouraged his listeners to refrain from the use of violence, no matter how high their frustrations may get. I second that. To all on both sides of contentious issues, let us never be so bereft of ideas, creativity, courage, and civility (remember that word that both King and Gandhi always demonstrated), and never resort to violence in the attempt to make our points. And given that violent threats against members of Congress who voted for the health-care bill are now being reported, that message of nonviolence and civility couldn’t be more timely.

[/quote]

[Jamie_B]

http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/24/what-the-heck-is-social-justice/

[quote]
[size="5"]What the Heck is ‘Social Justice’?[/size]
by Rose Marie Berger 03-24-2010

Today I was interviewed by a sociology student who wanted to know more about “social justice.” I was happy to talk to her. My Catholic tradition considers social justice as a central element of faith, public witness, and as integral to Catholic Social Teaching. In our conversation I drew on an article I’d written a few years back: “What the Heck is ‘Social Justice’?” (Sojourners, February 2007).

A starting question when talking about social justice is: What’s the difference between justice and charity?

Justice is the moral code that guides a fair and equitable society. When an individual acts on behalf of justice, he or she stands up for what is right. Charity is a basic sense of generosity and goodwill toward others, especially the suffering. Individual charity is when one responds to the more immediate needs of others — volunteering in a women’s shelter, for example. [See also An Active Faith by Yonce Shelton for more on charity and justice.]

The goal of social charity and social justice is furthering the common good. Social charity addresses the effects of social sin, while social justice addresses the causes of such sins. Brazilian Catholic Archbishop Hélder Câmara famously said, “When I feed the poor, they call me a saint; when I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.” His phrase indicates the societal pressure to separate charity and justice. The two cannot be separated. It would be like taking the heart out of a body — neither would live for long.

Social charity is sometimes called compassionate solidarity. A church’s decision to buy only fair trade coffee might be considered an act of social charity. It is a communal economic act that addresses the immediate needs of those who are oppressed by an unjust economic system. However, it doesn’t fundamentally change or challenge the unjust structure.

So just what is the definition of social justice?

The principle of social justice, according to Catholic social teaching, requires the individual Christian to act in an organized manner with others to hold social institutions accountable — whether government or private — to the common good. The “common good comprises the sum total of social conditions which allow people, either as groups or as individuals, to reach their fulfillment more fully and more easily,” according to Pope Paul VI. However, social justice can become hollow if it is not constantly in touch with real people’s experiences.

How does one “do” social justice?

Social justice issues are determined by “discerning the signs of the times” (Matthew 16:3), a careful process of social analysis. First, we listen to and observe the experiences of those closest to the problem. Second, together with those closest to the problem, we look at the context. What’s the history and what are the root causes? Are there political and/or cultural forces at play? We take the expanded information (experience plus context) and examine it in light of biblical values and Christian teaching. What would Jesus do in a situation like this? Third, we ask: What action might successfully make this situation more just? Finally, we take the action and evaluate the results. The evaluation takes us back to step one.

The theology of social justice cannot be separated from the full scope of Christian spiritual and moral development. But theology is always incarnated in the real lives and experiences of people. If it’s too abstract, then it becomes useless to the living breathing walk of faith that every Christian must make.

Rose Marie Berger, an associate editor at Sojourners, blogs at www.rosemarieberger.com. She’s the author of the forthcoming book Who Killed Donte Manning?: The Story of an American Neighborhood (Apprentice House, April 2010).
[/quote]

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='25 March 2010 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1269532740' post='872961']
http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/24/what-the-heck-is-social-justice/
[/quote]

Both of those last two post were really good, Jamie. Bravo!!

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='kennethmw' date='25 March 2010 - 04:44 PM' timestamp='1269549882' post='873063']
Both of those last two post were really good, Jamie. Bravo!!
[/quote]


I just dont think Beck or others get it but, like I said Im glad hes doing this, it will shine a light on the truth for those interested in it.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='25 March 2010 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1269565848' post='873139']
I just dont think Beck or others get it but, like I said Im glad hes doing this, it will shine a light on the truth for those interested in it.
[/quote]

That's what Beck does...draw up elaborate charts to shine the light on the truth...what's the argument again?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='25 March 2010 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1269566993' post='873148']
That's what Beck does...draw up elaborate charts to shine the light on the [color="#FF0000"]truth[/color]...what's the argument again?


[/quote]


uh...

[Jamie_B]

http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/26/kudos-good-news-coverage-on-the-glenn-beck-social-justice-debate/

[BengalBacker]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='26 March 2010 - 09:18 PM' timestamp='1269659885' post='873351']
[url="http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/26/kudos-good-news-coverage-on-the-glenn-beck-social-justice-debate/"]http://blog.sojo.net...justice-debate/[/url]
[/quote]

[quote]To cite just one example, Beck played a recording of Wallis discussing a meeting he had with Dorothy Day. Both Wallis and Day were socialists prior to their conversions. The clip made it sound as if Wallis and Day were agreeing that they were both still radicals. [/quote]

[BengalBacker]

[media][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2d--egjByE"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=o2d--egjByE[/url][/media]

[Jamie_B]

Both Wallis and Day were socialists [size="6"]prior to their conversions.[/size]

[Jamie_B]

Did you read Wallis' initial response? I posted it as just a link as it had alot of links in it.

Here is an excerpt....

http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/24/what-glenn-beck-doesnt-understand-about-biblical-social-justice/

[quote]Then he nailed me. He accused me of saying that faith-based initiatives and their resources were inadequate to reduce poverty by themselves. Guilty as charged. The quote was likely in the context of calling Christians to take such actions and lead by example (something I have preached and tried to practice for almost four decades) but that we will be most effective when we also work in partnership with other sectors: the private market, the rest of civil society, and even the GOVERNMENT! Would somebody please tell Catholic Charities and the Salvation Army that they are really supporting Marxism if they partner with the public sector?

Then Beck played a tape which exposed me saying that “redistribution” (the word in the English language that most seems to scare him) was part of the gospel message. He could have mentioned the gospel stories of the Rich Young Ruler, of Lazarus and the Rich Man, or the stern warnings of Jesus in Matthew 25 that we will be judged by “our treatment of the least of these.” But he didn’t. He did make a brief reference to Christ’s teaching that it would be harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle; but he didn’t seem to get it.

Instead Beck said that what I meant was…you guessed it: “forced redistribution, socialism, and Marxism.” Hmm, don’t ever remember saying that (it will be hard for Fox to find the videos of that), or even remember any of my fellow traveler social justice Christians ever saying or supporting that.

But we do say that while social justice begins with our own lives, choices, and sacrifices, it doesn’t end there. Those of us who have actually done this work for years all understand that you can’t just pull the bodies out of the river, and not send somebody upstream to see what or who is throwing them in. Serving the poor is a fundamental spiritual requirement of faith, but challenging the conditions that create poverty in the first place is also part of biblical social justice. In countering Beck’s misunderstanding of social justice on The Colbert Report, James Martin, an editor of the Jesuit America magazine, quoted a Catholic Archbishop as saying, “When I feed the poor they call me a saint; but when I ask why people are poor they call me a communist.” He suggested Beck has that problem.

Private charity, which Beck and I are both for, wasn’t enough to end the slave trade in Great Britain, end legal racial segregation in America, or end apartheid in South Africa. That took vital movements of faith which understood the connection between personal compassion and social justice. Those are the movements that have inspired me and shaped my life — not BIG GOVERNMENT. And my allies in faith-based social justice movements have wonderfully different views on the role of government — some bigger than mine and some smaller than mine — but we all believe social justice requires changing both personal choices and unjust structures. Apparently Beck thinks social justice ends with private charity, but very few churches in the nation would agree with him.[/quote]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BengalBacker' date='27 March 2010 - 03:22 AM' timestamp='1269674524' post='873367']
[media][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2d--egjByE"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=o2d--egjByE[/url][/media]
[/quote]


Even this video takes out of context and doesnt get it.

The Dorris Day stuff.. You can click the link above for the full audio. You can read the articles I posted for the context.


The redistribution of wealth...yes, guilty, but not forced, thats silly nobody has said that.

The "when it comes to economics im not a liberal im a radical". So am I.

For instance take a look at the Chris Dodd bill thread, should a ccard company ever be able to charge anyone 79% interest? Ever? Oh sure we can discuss how the person got to that level, but then lets discuss if its ever possible to get out. And in the context of biblical social justice lets discuss the usury, or the excessive charging or interest on a loan. That's biblically wrong and [b]one doesnt have to be a socialist, or a marxist to disagree with it.[/b] And sure the Church has a responsibility to help that person but as Jim said, if you dont go upstream to see who is throwing bodies in the water, you dont change anything. So in cases like this we have to petition the goverment to put a stop to that kind of excessive intrest. That is steeling from the poor/middle class.

[BengalBacker]

If you want social justice, health care and to help the poor, do what you can to create jobs. If there was a job available to everyone who wants one, most of these problems would go away. Instead, we're demonizing businesses, taxing them to death, forcing unscrupulous unions down their throat and wrapping them up in bureaucratic red tape. Would you want to start a business today?

Everyone likes to point to all of the jobs leaving the country as proof of evil corporations. News flash, it's a global economy now more than ever. Corporations are in business to make money. Are we doing everything we can to keep the jobs here, or are we doing everything we can to drive them away? Maybe we can't compete with the cheap labor right now, but on the bright side, when everyone is bled dry by the government, and there's no one left to steal from to support the government entitlements and giveaways, we too, might be willing to work for pennies just to feed our families and jobs may return.

Actually, I think that's pretty much the plan right now.