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The Glenn Beck Apocalypse

BlackJesus

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Jamie_B Hall Of Fame

Jamie_B

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[quote name='BengalBacker' date='27 March 2010 - 11:15 PM' timestamp='1269746108' post='873492']
If you want social justice, health care and to help the poor, do what you can to create jobs. If there was a job available to everyone who wants one, most of these problems would go away. Instead, we're demonizing businesses, taxing them to death, forcing unscrupulous unions down their throat and wrapping them up in bureaucratic red tape. Would you want to start a business today?

Everyone likes to point to all of the jobs leaving the country as proof of evil corporations. News flash, it's a global economy now more than ever. Corporations are in business to make money. Are we doing everything we can to keep the jobs here, or are we doing everything we can to drive them away? Maybe we can't compete with the cheap labor right now, but on the bright side, when everyone is bled dry by the government, and there's no one left to steal from to support the government entitlements and giveaways, we too, might be willing to work for pennies just to feed our families and jobs may return.

Actually, I think that's pretty much the plan right now.
[/quote]


We agree that we need to be creating jobs and that if there was a job available to everyone that wants one most would be working (we did have a 3.6 unemployment rate in the 90s), what we dont agree on is that we are doing things to drive business out.

For instance in 2007 as this mess was getting underway (at least to the level it is now, its always been coming for a while now) the top 2% household earnings grew by 31% from the previous year

Seen here - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/business/economy/18irs.html?ref=todayspaper

Further if you look at that link you will see this paragraph.


[quote]Each of the top 400 earning households paid an average tax rate of 16.6 percent, the lowest since the I.R.S. began tracking the data in 1992, the statistics show. Their average effective tax rate was about half the 29.4 percent in 1993, the first year of the Clinton administration, when taxes were increased.[/quote]

Do you think its any coincidence that there were more jobs in that time period where the tax rate was higher for the top 2 percent?

I'm no economist, but I do read a few of them, and it wouldn't surprise me, if we were being lied to by the elite about government making it harder for them to have business in the country.
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Jamie_B Hall Of Fame

Jamie_B

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[quote name='Jamie_B' date='27 March 2010 - 09:16 AM' timestamp='1269695774' post='873388']
Even this video takes out of context and doesnt get it.

The Dorris Day stuff.. You can click the link above for the full audio. You can read the articles I posted for the context.


The redistribution of wealth...yes, guilty, but not forced, thats silly nobody has said that.

The "when it comes to economics im not a liberal im a radical". So am I.

For instance take a look at the Chris Dodd bill thread, should a ccard company ever be able to charge anyone 79% interest? Ever? Oh sure we can discuss how the person got to that level, but then lets discuss if its ever possible to get out. And in the context of biblical social justice lets discuss the usury, or the excessive charging or interest on a loan. That's biblically wrong and [b]one doesnt have to be a socialist, or a marxist to disagree with it.[/b] And sure the Church has a responsibility to help that person but as Jim said, if you dont go upstream to see who is throwing bodies in the water, you dont change anything. So in cases like this we have to petition the goverment to put a stop to that kind of excessive intrest. That is steeling from the poor/middle class.
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Quoting myself here because I had discussed the usury.

http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/30/the-sin-of-usury/

[quote]The Sin of Usury
by Rachel Anderson 03-30-2010

Recently, on the Call & Response blog, Dan Rhodes called for a revival of the concept of usury in light of an economic crisis linked to abusive lending. James Howell raised questions about the application of usury prohibitions in a modern financial system.

The condemnation of usury in Christendom grew out of the Christian mission of charity, steeped in the Hebrew Bible. In the middle ages, practicing usury would get you excommunicated.

Over against such harsh punishment, James Howell makes the appealing suggestion that we drop the whole conversation about interest and go straight to building homes and offering financial education classes. But I think there is more to be discerned from the ancient witness about the nature of lending itself.

In Biblical times, the people of God believed there should be limits on the relationship between lenders and borrowers. Most frequently, that limit was expressed in terms of prohibition against interest, especially interest charged to fellow countrymen and to the poor (Exodus 22:25, Leviticus 25:35-37, Deuteronomy 23:19, Psalm 5:5).

Biblical prohibitions against usury suggest that there is something unique about the relationship between borrower and creditor. Credit relationships are often a mix of pure business, charity, and empowerment. If I need money to pay my rent or put food on the table, the person with money to lend has a great deal of power over me. If I need credit to get ahead — to pursue an education, start a business, or own a home — that transaction is inherently a wager on the future.

The dynamics of desperation and possibility make credit relationships ripe for exploitation. It should not be surprising, then, that lending abuse is real today, just as it was in Biblical times. In many states, payday lenders continue to charge over 300 and 400% interest rates that typically require families to take out new loans to pay off previous ones. At the auto dealership, the financing portion of the sale can become a cover for extra cost — as some dealers receive kick-backs from lenders in exchange for pushing higher cost loans than what the buyer qualifies for. The New York Times reported recently on trade schools that promise enrollees rosy career prospects but leave graduates with a heavy debt burden that outstrips their actual earnings.

The unfortunate reality is that in addition to the well-intentioned bankers that Howell mentions, there are also those who abuse the power of credit.

For most of America’s history, states’ traditional usury laws limited the most abusive forms of lending. Sidestepping traditional usury limits is a phenomenon of the 1970s and 80s. It helped create incentives for financial institutions to offer an array of problematic credit offers — from payday loans to high-cost student loans — whose function was not to empower households but to make quick cash and ensnare borrowers in debt.

The difference between a good and a bad loan is that in a good loan the lender succeeds when the borrower succeeds. The loan principal is repaid on time and with interest. In a bad loan, the lender benefits from the borrower’s misfortune, reaping extra fees through penalties, defaults, and loan rollover. In the hands of unscrupulous businesses, credit can dig a debt trap and destroy households.

The Biblical and ecclesial tradition is not blind to the unfortunate, darker side of lending. Nor should we be.[/quote]

http://blog.sojo.net/2010/03/30/why-were-talking-about-glenn-beck-and-social-justice/


[quote]Why We’re Talking About Glenn Beck and Social Justice
by Ryan Rodrick Beiler 03-30-2010

Jim Wallis is on vacation this week, but before leaving he wrote an op-ed for The Washington Post summarizing much of our recent responses to Glenn Beck’s accusations.

If Beck had, from the beginning, made an argument for small government and private charity, none of us would have responded to him. But on his show this week he wrote on his blackboard: “My definition of social justice” is “the forced redistribution of wealth, with a hostility to individual property, under the guise of charity and/or justice.” I doubt many churches in America would agree with that.

A debate over the role of government is good and healthy, as is discussing the relationship between personal and social responsibility. People of faith who believe in social justice can be found across the political spectrum. They would apply the concept in different ways; vote Republican, Democrat or independent; and have varying views of government — both smaller and larger than my own. We make progress together when we agree to public policies that are smart and effective government. Even the conservative Heritage Foundation has a video on “social justice.” The key for people of faith is to stand up for the poor, even against wealth and power when necessary.

[Read the rest of the article.]

Jim also got some blog love from Dan Pawlus of Interfaith Youth Core. (Incidentally, it was at an event with IFYC’s founder, Eboo Patel, that Jim told the story of his meeting with Dorothy Day, which Beck selectively edited to accuse them both of being Marxists). Here’s a blurb from Dan’s post on the Newsweek/Washington Post On Faith blog:

One of Rev. Wallis’ great gifts is bringing attention to issues that don’t often warrant coverage by the mass media. The recent exchange over what it means to be a social justice Christian is just one more example of his courage to stand up for his deeply held biblical principles. It’s got a lot of people talking.

As the news cycle moves forward, I hope this renewed interest in social justice and social justice Christians continues to receive media attention that delves deeper into the issue and focuses less on personalities engaged in a media tussle. It would be a lost opportunity if this is just a “faithertainment moment.”

Ryan Rodrick Beiler is the Web Editor for Sojourners and a photographer whose work can be seen at www.ryanrodrickbeiler.com.[/quote]
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Squirrlnutz Hall Of Fame

Squirrlnutz

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[quote name='Jamie_B' date='13 May 2010 - 06:49 PM' timestamp='1273790965' post='888236']
Lewis Black is awesome!!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-12-2010/back-in-black---glenn-beck-s-nazi-tourette-s
[/quote]
I was hoping you'd post this, awesome!
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BengalBacker Hall Of Fame

BengalBacker

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You guys are lambs being led to slaughter.

A part of me kind of relishes that. A part of me wants to be able to say I told you so. A part of me wants to see the look on your faces when you have the epiphany that, "God damn, Glenn Beck was right".

Most of me hopes that Glenn Beck is wrong. Unfortunately, all of me thinks he's right.



except for all of the God stuff
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BengalBacker Hall Of Fame

BengalBacker

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Glenn Beck is on the radio three hours a day, and on tv an hour. Given his style and subject matter, it's very easy for these comedians to take a few words here and there and make him look stupid. No one ever addresses the actual things he exposes and the real points that he makes.

If you don't watch him regularly, then your opinion of him is formed from these soundbites from people who aren't trying to be objective. They're trying to be funny.

Keep ridiculing him, it doesn't matter. Even though he's right, in the end, that doesn't matter. People don't want to see what's happening, and the end game is inevitable anyway.
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Jamie_B Hall Of Fame

Jamie_B

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[quote name='BengalBacker' date='14 May 2010 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1273864109' post='888431']
Glenn Beck is on the radio three hours a day, and on tv an hour. Given his style and subject matter, [color="#FF0000"]it's very easy for these comedians to take a few words here and there and make him look stupid.[/color] No one ever addresses the actual things he exposes and the real points that he makes.

If you don't watch him regularly, then your opinion of him is formed from these soundbites from people who aren't trying to be objective. They're trying to be funny.

Keep ridiculing him, it doesn't matter. Even though he's right, in the end, that doesn't matter. People don't want to see what's happening, and the end game is inevitable anyway.
[/quote]


There is a bit of irony there because that's exactly what he does, take snips of info and not the whole picture and make it out to be something its not.

And that's not true about nobody taking on what he was saying, Jim Wallis very directly did, it's just Glenn lives in an echo chamber and didn't want to be challenged by having Wallis on his show to debate the social justice issue, after offering to come on. Why do you think that is? Why do you think he didn't want to have Jim on to debate the issue? Maybe because facing his detractors head on will expose him for the BS artist he is.
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BengalBacker Hall Of Fame

BengalBacker

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I have to go to work. Think what you want Jamie. You and I are on opposite ends of most everything and neither of us will ever convince the other of anything, so there's no point.

Someday you will realize what happened right under your nose while you were defending it.
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Jamie_B Hall Of Fame

Jamie_B

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[quote name='BengalBacker' date='14 May 2010 - 03:22 PM' timestamp='1273864921' post='888435']
I have to go to work. Think what you want Jamie. You and I are on opposite ends of most everything and neither of us will ever convince the other of anything, so there's no point.

[color="#FF0000"]Someday you will realize what happened right under your nose while you were defending it.[/color]
[/quote]


You act as if I just talk out of my ass without having researched and form my points of view after hand. I would hope you know better by now.
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Elflocko Hall Of Fame

|Elflocko|

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[quote name='BengalBacker' date='14 May 2010 - 12:22 PM' timestamp='1273864921' post='888435']
I have to go to work. Think what you want Jamie. You and I are on opposite ends of most everything and neither of us will ever convince the other of anything, so there's no point.

[b]Someday you will realize what happened right under your nose while you were defending it.[/b]
[/quote]


Methinks we have two very different perceptions about what is happening right under our noses...
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Homer_Rice Hall Of Fame

Homer_Rice

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[url="http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/may/27/tea-party-jacobins/?pagination=false"]The Tea Party Jacobins[/url]

[quote]The American public, meanwhile, was having no trouble accepting both revolutions and reconciling them in everyday life. This made sense, given that they were inspired by the same political principle: radical individualism.[/quote]
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|Elflocko|

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[quote name='Homer_Rice' date='14 May 2010 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1273881328' post='888469']
[url="http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/may/27/tea-party-jacobins/?pagination=false"]The Tea Party Jacobins[/url]
[/quote]


[quote]Now an angry group of Americans wants to be freer still—free from government agencies that protect their health, wealth, and well-being; free from problems and policies too difficult to understand; free from parties and coalitions; free from experts who think they know better than they do; free from politicians who don’t talk or look like they do (and Barack Obama certainly doesn’t). They want to say what they have to say without fear of contradiction, and then hear someone on television tell them they’re right. They don’t want the rule of the people, though that’s what they say. They want to be people without rules—and, who knows, they may succeed. This is America, where wishes come true. And where no one remembers the adage “Beware what you wish for.”[/quote]
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