Titties (Andre Smith)

[CougarQuest]

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1282607206' post='909488']
so, for the way you see things, what it comes down to is, there's ALWAYS an excuse, right? it's ALWAYS someone else's fault. i see.

that leads me to another one of my crazy random thoughts, so bear with me. don't you suppose if for once we were proactive and make a bona fide attempt at signing our pick before the oaklands (or team X,Y, or Z) signs their pick... we wouldn't have to deal with those "supposed" outrageous parameters they set for us?

[/quote]

Well I can turn that around and it appears to me that the way you see things, no matter what it's ALWAYS the Brown Family fault. In the past 15 years or so, based on the individual case at the time, I was more on the players side more than I was the Brown family side.

The Bengals have signed their first round pick before anyone. Carson Palmer. And before you chuckle too much, all you have to do is look at the first round pick this year.

Look, I'd love to have the Bengals pick in the first day of camp. Just how many teams in the past five years actually accomplish that? Last year was strange. And obviously not everyone was looking at both sides of the aisle last year. The Bengals were offering above the percentages of that slot of the recent previous years. The Browns were ABOVE the percentage averages for the recent years. That's more than fair. And in their mind, and others, it's fair regardless of the curved slot. Andre's AGENT wanted slot money, even though the slot was thrown a curve that year. It's the slot. He figures he is due it and it's fair.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1282613589' post='909510']







And you've still ignored my original question. Looking back, how can you look at the way the contract was structured and how Andre has slacked, and not conclude that the Bengals were justified in the contract they did?





[/quote]

i addressed that in the post above. no, they were wise in the terminology pertaining to weight.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1282613589' post='909510']
I'd love to see your proof that ownership is who dragged it out. I'll wait.



As for Andre's deal, his overall money was slotted, fairly. You can make a case on the guaranteed money







[/quote]

time out, he only has a chance to make that 6 year deal IF the team chooses to take up that option. otherwise, it's the only 4 year deal in the 1st round. i never expect the team to take up that option, it would be too expensive. it qualifies as a "not likely to be earned" clause.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1282613589' post='909510']
I'd love to see your proof that ownership is who dragged it out. I'll wait.



As for Andre's deal, his overall money was slotted, fairly. You can make a case on the guaranteed money







And you've still ignored my original question. Looking back, how can you look at the way the contract was structured and how Andre has slacked, and not conclude that the Bengals were justified in the contract they did?

The Bengals protected themselves against a rookie possibly not living up to his contract. Why are you damning them instead of damning the other teams that should be doing the same thing?

I hope you're not for a rookie cap, because it will have the same philosophy. Protecting the teams against unproven players.


Yes, I'd love nothing more than our rookies to be in time every year. But I also understand that the system is screwed, and think its admirable that Mike Brown acknowledges it and doesn't just bend over like the rest of the owners do.


Paul was a pioneer when it came to the game and the football side of things. When it comes to the cap, CBA, etc, Mike may not be a pioneer, but if more owners stood up to the problems in the system, we wouldn't be looking at a work stoppage for next season.
[/quote]


the everyday bengal fan is the one that loses in these annual events. and yes, i'd love to see a slotted rookie salary cap that every pick, every agent and every owner would have to adhere to.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1282615967' post='909520']
time out, he only has a chance to make that 6 year deal IF the team chooses to take up that option. otherwise, it's the only 4 year deal in the 1st round. i never expect the team to take up that option, it would be too expensive. it qualifies as a "not likely to be earned" clause.
[/quote]


the only way they don't exercise the clause is if he ends up sucking. It's basically a 6yr deal, everyone knows it.


And it's not too expensive. If he pans out, $16 million over two years is NOTHING to protect Carson.

[CougarQuest]

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1282616232' post='909522']
the everyday bengal fan is the one that loses in these annual events.
[/quote]

because it's also a cause and effect of rising ticket prices?

[bengaled]

[quote name='CougarQuest' timestamp='1282615316' post='909518']
Well I can turn that around and it appears to me that the way you see things, no matter what it's ALWAYS the Brown Family fault. In the past 15 years or so, based on the individual case at the time, I was more on the players side more than I was the Brown family side.

The Bengals have signed their first round pick before anyone. Carson Palmer. And before you chuckle too much, all you have to do is look at the first round pick this year.


[/quote]


that's refreshing to read. we only have one contract to disagree on.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1282616232' post='909522']
[b]the everyday bengal fan is the one that loses in these annual events.[/b] and yes, i'd love to see a slotted rookie salary cap that every pick, every agent and every owner would have to adhere to.
[/quote]



then its a good thing that at the end of the day, the fans don't matter too much. You want to have them, but as long as you're winning there's always someone new waiting to take their place.


As a fan, in a capped year, I don't mind heavily if a player misses a week of practice if it allows the team to re-sign key guys or if they use it to go after a free agent role player.

[scharm]

Lol, no prolonged holdout to bitch about so bengaled wants to relive last years for the 15th time.

What a tool.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1282616379' post='909523']
the only way they don't exercise the clause is if he ends up sucking. It's basically a 6yr deal, everyone knows it.


And it's not too expensive. If he pans out, $16 million over two years is NOTHING to protect Carson.
[/quote]


Not getting involved in the andre thing but i find it interesting that you say he basicly is in a 6 year deal (because of the club option) but then say chad is in his contract year (despite the club option)



carry on

[bengaled]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1282617023' post='909530']
Lol, no prolonged holdout to bitch about so bengaled wants to relive last years for the 15th time.

What a tool.
[/quote]

i really didn't intend to hijack this thread and have it go that way. call me easily influenced. or in other words, yes, totally tooled. guilty as charged. i quit.

but what the hell, if for nothing else it got you out of your little fisher-price house and got you posting. so it's all good!

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1282617308' post='909533']
Not getting involved in the andre thing but i find it interesting that you say he basicly is in a 6 year deal (because of the club option) but then say chad is in his contract year (despite the club option)



carry on
[/quote]


technicality wise, Chad IS in a contract year. I've never once said they won't pick up his option. Doesn't mean they have to. As his contract states, it ends this year unless the option is exercised.



Technicality wise, Andre's deal is a 4 year deal if you want to look at it that way. However, like Chad's deal, everyone and their brother knows that the team is going to pick up those 2 years unless Andre bombs.




Contracts are announced at their max length, whether the player will ever see those years or not.


Andre's contract is listed as 6 years even though the last two years are voided if the option isn't picked up.

Chad's contract is listed as 6 years even though the last year is voided if the option isn't picked up.


On the flip side, Albert Haynesworth contract is listed as a 7 year deal, but everyone knows there's no way in hell he'll see those last 3 years as they'll owe him $29 million. Not an "option" persay, but the same basic situation.

But hey, don't let facts and comprehension get in your way.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1282618542' post='909544']
technicality wise, Chad IS in a contract year. I've never once said they won't pick up his option. Doesn't mean they have to. As his contract states, it ends this year unless the option is exercised.



Technicality wise, Andre's deal is a 4 year deal. However, like Chad's deal, everyone and their brother knows that the team is going to pick up those 2 years unless Andre bombs.




Contracts are announced at their max length, whether the player will ever see those years or not.


Andre's contract is listed as 6 years even though the last two years are voided if the option isn't picked up.

Chad's contract is listed as 6 years even though the last year is voided if the option isn't picked up.



But hey, don't let facts and comprehension get in your way.
[/quote]


Ok so then technically Andre is in a 4 year deal.


Now your at least consistent.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1282618721' post='909545']
Ok so then technically Andre is in a 4 year deal.


Now your at least consistent.
[/quote]




lol I could sit here and try and explain why you have no understanding of what I just wrote, but I'd be wasting my time.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1282619004' post='909549']
lol I could sit here and try and explain why you have no understanding of what I just wrote, but I'd be wasting my time.
[/quote]
Seriously Jamie......

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot....

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1282619004' post='909549']
lol I could sit here and try and explain why you have no understanding of what I just wrote, but I'd be wasting my time.
[/quote]


No what you said is the following

Chad is in his contract year with a club option that they dont have to necessarily exercise (but likely will)

and andre is in a 4 year deal with a club option of 2 additional years that they dont have to necessarily exercise (and hopefully will)


What Im saying is that at least be consistent in your language, if your going to say chad is in his contract year then dont say andre basically has a 6 year deal, because he doesnt he has a 4 year deal with 2 option years


do try to keep up

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1282619318' post='909554']
No what you said is the following

Chad is in his contract year with a club option that they dont have to necessarily exercise (but likely will)

and andre is in a 4 year deal with a club option of 2 additional years that they dont have to necessarily exercise (and hopefully will)


What Im saying is that at least be consistent in your language, if your going to say chad is in his contract year then dont say andre basically has a 6 year deal, because he doesnt he has a 4 year deal with 2 option years


do try to keep up
[/quote]


I'll keep this short:


Besides the fact that we both know you're just in here to try and be an ass, try re-reading the post and seeing what it means, not just what it says.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1282619496' post='909556']
I'll keep this short:


Besides the fact that we both know you're just in here to try and be an ass, try re-reading the post and seeing what it means, not just what it says.
[/quote]


yes i exist just to be an ass to you

outside of the contracts being listed at the max years I basically just restated what you said

but here

Chad has a 6 year deal (with the last year a club option)
Andre has a 6 year deal (with the last 2 years a club option)

[b]OR[/b]

Chad has a 5 year deal with a club option of an extra year making it a likely 6 year deal
Andre has a 4 year deal with a club option of an extra two years making it hopefully a 6 year deal


Just sayin' consistent language, thats all

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1282619794' post='909558']
yes i exist just to be an ass to you

outside of the contracts being listed at the max years I basically just restated what you said

but here

Chad has a 6 year deal (with the last year a club option)
Andre has a 6 year deal (with the last 2 years a club option)

[b]OR[/b]

Chad has a 5 year deal with a club option of an extra year making it a likely 6 year deal
Andre has a 4 year deal with a club option of an extra two years making it hopefully a 6 year deal


Just sayin' consistent language, thats all
[/quote]



all true (including the ass part)




As for the language, its a matter of understanding. In the case of chad's contract i was always clear on what his contract technically was (5 yrs) and what we all know it will end up as (6 yrs).

Same here with Andre. Technically its 4yrs, but we all know the team will pick up the two years provided he doesn't bust.


In both cases, its not like the options are poison pills like Haynesworth's deal, where there's no way in hell he's going to see all 7 years of the contract.

The options just give the team an out if necessary. You have to look at the contracts for what they really are, not just what the announced numbers are.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1282620408' post='909560']
all true (including the ass part)




As for the language, its a matter of understanding. In the case of chad's contract i was always clear on what his contract technically was (5 yrs) and what we all know it will end up as (6 yrs).

Same here with Andre. Technically its 4yrs, but we all know the team will pick up the two years provided he doesn't bust.


In both cases, its not like the options are poison pills like Haynesworth's deal, where there's no way in hell he's going to see all 7 years of the contract.

The options just give the team an out if necessary. You have to look at the contracts for what they really are, not just what the announced numbers are.
[/quote]


I wasnt arguing anything other than the years.

[|Bengal Migration|]

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[TheBeaverHunter]

Andre Smith is looking like a bust and the Bengals made a huge mistake not drafting Oher.

[quote]Baltimore tackle Michael Oher has been invited to appear on Oprah twice. He's been invited to the Academy Awards. He's been asked to be in the audience at the ESPYs.

No, no, no and no.

Seems Oher is not very happy with how he was portrayed in The Blind Side movie. He thinks he was made to look like a simpleton who knew nothing about football before he was picked up off the Memphis streets and taken to live with a wealthy family. Seems he has no interest in furthering that public image, so he's concentrating on one thing: being a football player.

Earlier this year, Roger Goodell asked Oher to come to New York one day to speak to a Boys and Girls Club gathering. Oher said he'd do it only if he could get his workout in that same day. Oher will be the Ravens' starting left tackle this season, and he wanted to be sure he didn't miss any workouts for things that had nothing to do with his on-field performance. Once he learned he'd be able to work out and do the speech in Manhattan, he agreed.

That leads me to wonder one thing about the 2009 NFL draft: How do the Bengals, in need of a tackle and picking sixth overall, take the jiggly and unmotivated Andre Smith, and the Ravens, in need of a tackle and trading up to 23rd overall, take the supremely motivated Oher?

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/08/22/mmqb/3.html#ixzz0xWRDncet
[/quote]

It's time we all wake up. Smith isn't just going to change one day and be this responsible hard working football player. The Bengals made an error when judging this guy's character. He had never been a hard worker and chances are he isn't going to start when he is 23. Hopefully I am wrong and he turns out to be a cornerstone for the next 10 years......but now it doesn't look good.


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