Microsoft Surface

[T-Dub]

As far as the "digital ink" shit goes, I'm pretty geeked on trying out Wacom's "Bamboo" stylus for Android with something like Sketchbook Mobile.

[Jamie_B]

Stopped in the Microsoft store yesterday, still not a fan of Windows 8, but the form factor on these things is pretty nice.

[Jamie_B]

[b] [/b]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57550839-71/woz-microsoft-might-be-more-creative-than-apple/

[quote]
[b] Woz: Microsoft might be more creative than Apple[/b]

Having already worried that Microsoft had re-incarnated Steve Jobs, Apple's surviving co-founder now worries that Redmond might be simply more creative. He also offers that Steve Jobs didn't have to be such a "bastard."

It's something that might almost seem obvious.
But it takes someone of Steve Wozniak's wonderful unedited disposition to say it: Microsoft might currently be more forward-thinking than Apple.
[url="http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/14/keen-on-steve-wozniak-why-woz-worries-microsoft-is-now-more-innovative-than-apple-tctv/"]In an interview[/url] with TechCrunch's affable rabid soccer fan (Spurs is his team) and forward-thinker Andrew Keen, Woz was very open to the idea that Redmond might have been spending quite some time lately trying to create more "wow" products than Apple.

Woz was moved less by Surface, it seemed, than by the idea that Microsoft was working on technology that made simultaneous translations. Yes, a lot more colloquial than Google manages right now.

He said: "If they're making strides in this voice recognition area, I fear that Microsoft might have been sitting in their labs trying to innovate."
The contrast, he said, was perhaps that "Apple was just used to cranking out the newest iPhone and falling a little behind and that worries me greatly."

Woz has been doing a lot of worrying recently.
Earlier this year, he worried that Microsoft's phone interfaces were so pretty that [url="http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57423684-71/woz-microsoft-might-have-reincarnated-steve-jobs/"]the company might have re-incarnated Steve Jobs[/url].
And when it comes to voice recognition, Woz has been a bitter critic of Siri. Indeed, in June he suggested she needed [url="http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57453207-71/woz-apple-made-a-stinking-mess-of-siri/"]a bigger makeover than Tyra Banks could ever give her[/url].

"It worries me because I love Apple," Woz told TechCrunch. "It worries me if Apple were to lose ground because they were making the same things they know how to make."

"Improving is not Apple-style innovation," he added.
He seemed to almost decry the [url="http://reviews.cnet.com/ipad/"]iPad[/url] as something that's easy, for normal people, but not for the true nerdy geek.
Woz sat on the fence a little when asked whether the departure of Scott Forstall meant that Apple was turning its back on creativity.

But he did say: "I don't believe Steve [Jobs] had to be as much of a real rugged bastard, put people down and make them feel demeaned."
When it comes to innovation, the legends are sometimes greater and more colorful than the reality.

Tim Cook appears to be taking a few steps toward making Apple a more civilized place -- for example, by reportedly [url="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57548728-37/rumored-apple-program-lets-employees-toy-with-side-projects/"]giving employees two weeks to work on their own projects[/url].

In the end, though, it's the products that matter. Will they inspire? Or will they bore?
It's sad that Wozniak hasn't been involved in more product creation. Boring is something he doesn't have a talent for.
[/quote]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='mongo' timestamp='1340200249' post='1136021']
I've read a bunch of articles, but now I'm watching the presentation video... There's no way I can stay objective throughout this presentation, though. Steve Ballmer is an absolute buffoon.

Questions I have:

1. Why is Ballmer still employed?
[color=#ff0000]--- Your guess is as good as mine, there has to be someone there more techincally minded, but that can market things like Gates used to.[/color]


2. Why would you want to charge your phone at a hotel with the USB port of a Surface? (I'd much rather have heard what peripherals it will support)
[color=#ff0000]--- 'meh, personally I wouldnt have talked to that either, but peripherals dont mean much to me, it's USB it should I would think support whatever USB plugs into it. [/color]

3. How did they allow a presentation in which the product didn't work, and a backup needed to be used? (and the overzealous marks in the audience, and under-rehearsed presentations)
[color=#ff0000]Good question, but I care less about the presentation than I do the actual product[/color]

4. How fast will that kickstand break in the hands of a child?
[color=#ff0000]-- Personally I think it's nuts that people give a child that might be old enough to break this thing an Ipad at the price points these things are at, get them a kindle or something more simple to surf the net and play games on.[/color]

5. Why would you want a trackpad for a touchscreen? (especially on a keyboard that is attached to the screen)
[color=#ff0000]-- to use it like you would a laptop, the keyboard input is much more productive than trying to type on a touchscreen, espessally for business users where they are talking the Surface Pro will be aimed at and has a real chance to take that market [/color]

6. Do people really want 'digital ink'? (and when showing off 'palm block' technology, I think you should make sure it works)
[color=#ff0000]--Again think business users, espessally the need for moblility. I know in an appilication I used to support they made a mobile version that required actual signatures on PDF type forms and such, which required pen input. [/color]

7. With a cooling vent about a mm from the edge of the entire back of the Surface, what stops a spilled coffee from destroying the device? (I get that a drink can destroy anything if spilled just right, but that vent is begging for trouble)
[color=#ff0000]-- This is probabally the best question imo, and I really dont know the answer.[/color]

8. Are there video professionals who are going to edit video on a tablet? Designers using CS6 on a 10" screen?
[color=#ff0000]I'm not sure MS is even aiming for that market, they seem to be looking to the business community, at least with the Pro version. Is there alot of video editing going on on the Ipad? I'd doubt you get many guys trying to do Avid type of video editing on it anyway, maybe home movies, but nothing professional. [/color]

9. Is a 22° angle really a selling point? .65 mm injection molding? (a lot of time is not spent on things like price, release date, battery life, app delivery, third party apps in the works)
[color=#ff0000]-- not sure, it wasnt a selling point to me anyway, im pretty indifferent to that[/color]

I think it looked like the rushed presentation of a beta product.
[/quote]

Wanted to backtrack on these now that I have touched the actual Surface and spent a little time with the full blown windows 8 as well.

I can see what they are trying to do with Win 8, I absolutly hate the tiles garbage but there are things I do like in it from an average, non-techy consumer standpoint. Finding what you need is much more streamlined and the user experience after you adjust to the changes between 7 and 8 are much more simplified, with what I think is the eventual move to using Kinnect for windows (and 5 or so years down the line as the technology matures and motion capture cameras get smaller and cheeper will go into a product like this) I can see what they are trying to do where Windows will look much more like something out of Minority Report than it does now, but for now I feel like they are getting ahead of themselves a little bit. And for me as someone who likes to dig into the innards and have as much customization of the OS as I can, I'm not a Win 8 fan at all.

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1354038126' post='1185602']
Wanted to backtrack on these now that I have touched the actual Surface and spent a little time with the full blown windows 8 as well.

I can see what they are trying to do with Win 8, I absolutly hate the tiles garbage but there are things I do like in it from an average, non-techy consumer standpoint. Finding what you need is much more streamlined and the user experience after you adjust to the changes between 7 and 8 are much more simplified, with what I think is the eventual move to using Kinnect for windows (and 5 or so years down the line as the technology matures and motion capture cameras get smaller and cheeper will go into a product like this) I can see what they are trying to do where Windows will look much more like something out of Minority Report than it does now, but for now I feel like they are getting ahead of themselves a little bit. And for me as someone who likes to dig into the innards and have as much customization of the OS as I can, I'm not a Win 8 fan at all.
[/quote]

Server 2012 is chock full of "What the Fuck?!?" as well...

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1354039619' post='1185619']
Server 2012 is chock full of "What the Fuck?!?" as well...
[/quote]

Yeah i dont understand making the Win 8 interface for server [b]AT ALL[/b]

[Jamie_B]

Also maybe it's me but Ballmer just reminds me of the smarmy frat guy trying to be friends with the Nerds so that he can ride their success rather than be someone who offers anything of value.

[Jamie_B]

Also I wish they put a 4G antenna in this thing.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1340161620' post='1135981']
Been using the W8 beta for a couple of months now. My take on the tablet?

Meh...
[/quote]

hated W8 Beta.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1354042307' post='1185659']
hated W8 Beta.
[/quote]

yeah that was my initial reaction to it too, once i played with it for a little while i've softened on that some

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1354042448' post='1185660']
yeah that was my initial reaction to it too, once i played with it for a little while i've softened on that some
[/quote]

I lasted long enough to know I wasn't going to pay for it after the free trial was up.

[Jamie_B]

Yeah there have been alot of Mixed reactions to Win8...

[url="http://finance.yahoo.com/news/windows-8--disjointed--and--remarkable-.html"]http://finance.yahoo...emarkable-.html[/url]


[quote][b] Windows 8 Reactions Across the Web: 'Disjointed' and 'Remarkable'[/b]

Microsoft previewed a major overhaul of its Windows operating system at the Mobile World Congress tradeshow in Barcelona. Steve Sinofsky, the president of Windows, introduced it as the biggest re-design of the company's software since Windows 95.

The new operating system [url="http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/windows/"](check out the test version here)[/url] will be available across tablets, laptops and desktops, and will roll out with new features like the Windows Store, its first online store for Windows apps. Your music, files, photos, and settings will also be stored on a "cloud" so you can find them and pick up where you left off across devices.

Windows 8 incorporates the Metro interface, which you may recognize from Windows phones. In addition to a different look and feel, you will have the option to navigate -- switch between apps, move things around, pan, zoom and swipe between things -- on any touch-based PC without a mouse or keyboard.
Microsoft watchers have long said the reception of the new OS could be indicative of whether it will be able to compete successfully with the likes of Apple and Google.

Here are some of the early reactions to Windows 8:
[i]"Disjointed is the key word that comes to mind after you spend some time with Windows 8. As a tablet OS, if you can keep in Metro land, things feel good. Very good. The gestures are a bit more complex and less intuitive than we've seen on other tablet operating systems, but more savvy users will appreciate that. That said, Windows is still primarily a desktop operating system, and once you get to that level the cracks in the foundation start to show.[/i]" [url="http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/29/microsoft-windows-8-consumer-preview-detailed-impressions/"]Tim Stevens, Engadget[/url]
[i]"They've nailed the operating system, given that they didn't have much choice if they wanted to compete in the tablet space. Too much of Windows 8's fate resides on partnerships, though. It depends on hardware, affordability, how closely the pitch to consumers matches the reality of adoption, and, frankly, what Apple does. Ultimately, Microsoft has control over only one of those, and it's only partial at that."[/i] [url="http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-57386760-78/windows-8-beta-hands-on-with-microsofts-tablet-friendly-os/?tag=TOCcarouselMain.0"]Seth Rosenblatt, CNET[/url]
[i]"In the end, Windows 8 is a massive change and an obvious next step. The OS leaves competitors in the relative dust, at least in terms of usability, and paves the way for a world of touchscreens and Kinect-like interaction."[/i] [url="http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/29/windows-8-the-road-ahead/"]John Biggs, TechCrunch[/url]
[i]"In the end, Microsoft isn’t just asking you to get used to a different interface for Windows. It’s asking you to get used to multiple interfaces within the same OS. I’m not sure how many people have the patience for that. Still, Windows 8 can only get more stable and easier to use while it slowly advances toward a general release, and Metro is gorgeous enough to keep me looking forward to Windows 8′s final act."[/i] [url="http://mashable.com/2012/02/29/windows-8-consumer-preview-review/"]Peter Pachal, Mashable[/url]

[i]"The concept is fantastic and I very much like Microsoft’s execution thus far, but it still feels like a marriage of two completely different operating systems rather than a fusion of two experiences."[/i] [url="http://www.bgr.com/2012/02/29/welcome-to-the-post-post-pc-era-a-review-of-microsofts-windows-8-consumer-preview/"]Zach Epstein, BGR[/url]
[i]"By the time the final version ships later this year, it's clear that Windows 8 is going to be a remarkable, daring update to the venerable OS. It is a departure from nearly everything we've known Windows to be. You will love it, or hate it. I love it."[/i] [url="http://gizmodo.com/5889001/windows-8-consumer-preview-hands-on-no-going-back"]Mat Honan, Gizmodo[/url]
[i]"Microsoft is not going away."[/i] [url="http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/29/daily-report-early-opinions-on-microsoft-windows-8/?smid=tw-nytimesbits&seid=auto"]New York Times' Bits Blog[/url][/quote]

[Jamie_B]

[url="http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/microsoft-surface-pro-tablet-laptop-computer-launch-windows/story?id=18286485"]http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/microsoft-surface-pro-tablet-laptop-computer-launch-windows/story?id=18286485[/url]

[quote]
[b] Microsoft Surface Pro Tablet to Launch Feb. 9 for $899[/b]



The second wave of Microsoft's tablet assault comes next month. The company announced today that the second version of its Surface tablet -- the Surface Windows 8 Pro -- will launch on Feb. 9 for $899.99.
In October, Microsoft released [url="http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Windows8/"]Windows 8[/url] and, along with it, its own [url="http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/microsoft-surface-rt-review-windows-tablet-turned-laptop/story?id=17540348"]$499 Surface RT tablet[/url]. The tablet ran Windows RT, a stripped-down version of Microsoft's new operating system, and was powered by an ARM processor, which didn't allow it to run many well-known Windows programs.

The Surface Pro tablet, however, has an Intel Core i5 processor and Windows Pro, which is capable of running new versions of Windows programs as well as traditional programs. Because of its greater power, including 64GB or 128GB solid state drive options, the Pro version will start at $899.
Included with the tablet is a stylus or Surface pen, but to get a keyboard you'll have to shell out some more money. The Touch Cover, which we [url="http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/microsoft-surface-rt-review-windows-tablet-turned-laptop/story?id=17540348"]reviewed with the Surface RT[/url], has touch sensors instead of physical keys one can press, and costs $120. The Type Cover, which has physical keys, costs $130.

[url="javascript:void(0);"][/url]
Microsoft promoted the Surface launch with [url="http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/microsoft-surface-microsoft-head-head-ipad-499-tablet/story?id=17487128"]massive advertising and marketing campaigns in the U.S.[/url] (you might have seen the big billboards or the commercials). However, analysts say they have not seen strong sales. According to [url="http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/microsoft-surface-low-sales-estimates/"]The New York Times[/url], which cites a UBS analyst, Microsoft sold just one million tablets in the fourth quarter. (Apple, in comparison, sold three times that in the first weekend that its [url="http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/2012/11/apple-logs-3-million-ipads-sold-in-three-days/"]iPad Mini[/url] was on the market.)
Microsoft is increasing the production of the Surface RT tablet and expanding its worldwide distribution; the Surface RT was only available at Microsoft stores when it launched.

Analysts say it's still early to predict the success of Microsoft's Surface business. "Given the limited availability of Surface over the holidays and that it runs Windows RT, it's hard to say how well it really did in the market or make judgments about how well Surface Pro might do," Michael Gartenberg, Gartner Research Director, told ABC News.
"Given that Surface Pro runs on an Intel processor and Windows 8 with legacy application support will make a major difference in explaining it to consumers and it will be the best representation of Microsoft's interoperation of how the personal computer and tablet have evolved."

The Surface Pro tablet will be available at Microsoft's online store, as well as Staples and Best Buy, on Feb. 9.[/quote]

[Jamie_B]

Initial report before installing anything on it yet as I have to burn cds to do it since it doesnt include a cd rom (which is not a huge deal as you cant expect that from a tablet)

 

Only complaint is battery life and the pen when docked could be more secure, although its not horrible.

 

Other than that I love this thing, Windows8 makes sense in this form, to the point that I dont hate it anymore.

[|Elflocko|]

Initial report before installing anything on it yet as I have to burn cds to do it since it doesnt include a cd rom (which is not a huge deal as you cant expect that from a tablet)

 

Only complaint is battery life and the pen when docked could be more secure, although its not horrible.

 

Other than that I love this thing, Windows8 makes sense in this form, to the point that I dont hate it anymore.

 

Still utterly useless for controlling a server; virtual servers at that.  Until they fix that fetid pile of feces on the enterprise level W8\Server 2012 can suck it... 

[Jamie_B]

yeah not a fan of it on the desktop/server arena at all

[Bengals1181]

for those who ended up getting one or have tried one, what do you think of the Microsoft Surface?  My wife needs a new PC, and I'm considering one as an alternative that can replace what she needs her PC for while also offering the flexibility and mobility of a tablet.  

 

 

Mainly she needs it for Microsoft Office, which I understand it comes with, the Internet (she's gonna start taking some online classes in the spring), and for printing (our printer is a USB hookup).  

 

 

Hoping it can serve as a tablet that she can also use as a quasi PC by hooking up an external mouse, keyboard (if she doesn't like the one it comes with) and printer, via a USB hub.

[Jamie_B]

There are 2 versions the Surfact RT and the Surface Pro

 

Surfact RT if thats all she's gonna do is probabally the best choice for her, however keep in mind it's not backwords compatable and you cant install old windows programs on it, it's essentally a windows 8 version of a tablet.

 

Surface Pro is what I have and it's essentaly a laptop in a form factor of a tablet, you can do anything on it that you can do on a laptop, it's just lighter and more compact.

 

The one issue that, at least for the first version, that was kind of a pain is that the battery life isnt that great, I can get about 3 hours out of my fully charged Surface Pro, the RT I believe gets more but I cant speak first hand to how much more.

 

Now the Surface RT 2.0 and Surface Pro 2.0 I believe is out now and they have reported to fix the battery issues as well as added a backlit keyboard, so if battery life is an issue for you over what you may save by finding a Surface RT 1.0 or Pro 1.0, then I'd get the 2.0, which is also lighter. Also for whatever reason MS Office only comes with Surface RT.

[Jamie_B]

On a pad, or computer? Nothing. I think handwriting is bad input on computers or pads... If pressed to use my handwriting as a design element, I'd use pen and paper, scan, then clean it up in Illustrator or Photoshop.

 

 

Just coming back to this now that I actually have a Surface.

 

Couldn't be more wrong here, at least for me. I use the pen in my classes to take notes on the powerpoint slides the professors have ALL THE TIME. It's an indispensable tool for me. I can use my own handwriting or the highlighter tool in Powerpoint, it's pretty damned nice!!

[Bengals1181]

There are 2 versions the Surfact RT and the Surface Pro

 

Surfact RT if thats all she's gonna do is probabally the best choice for her, however keep in mind it's not backwords compatable and you cant install old windows programs on it, it's essentally a windows 8 version of a tablet.

 

Surface Pro is what I have and it's essentaly a laptop in a form factor of a tablet, you can do anything on it that you can do on a laptop, it's just lighter and more compact.

 

The one issue that, at least for the first version, that was kind of a pain is that the battery life isnt that great, I can get about 3 hours out of my fully charged Surface Pro, the RT I believe gets more but I cant speak first hand to how much more.

 

Now the Surface RT 2.0 and Surface Pro 2.0 I believe is out now and they have reported to fix the battery issues as well as added a backlit keyboard, so if battery life is an issue for you over what you may save by finding a Surface RT 1.0 or Pro 1.0, then I'd get the 2.0, which is also lighter. Also for whatever reason MS Office only comes with Surface RT.

 

 

that's pretty much what I've been reading and hearing.  The RT comes with Office, which is a HUGE plus.

 

I was just at Best Buy playing around with a bunch of different tablets, notebooks and laptops.  Not a fan of the keyboard that comes with the Surface.  I'd have to find a USB compatable one to work with it as I'm not shelling out $140 for the nicer option that comes with the Surface.

 

I was a big fan of this guy other than the fact he doesn't have a CD/DVD drive (and of course Office)

 

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/aspire-14-touch-screen-laptop-4gb-memory-500gb-hard-drive/1883079.p?id=1219066386406&skuId=1883079&st=E1-470+-6659&cp=1&lp=1

 

 

 

 

They told me Windows 8 will only take Office 2007 or newer.  Is that smoke or legit?  I have a copy of Office 2000 I'd love to be able to salvage if possible to save from having to buy Office.

[|Elflocko|]

 

 

that's pretty much what I've been reading and hearing.  The RT comes with Office, which is a HUGE plus.

 

I was just at Best Buy playing around with a bunch of different tablets, notebooks and laptops.  Not a fan of the keyboard that comes with the Surface.  I'd have to find a USB compatable one to work with it as I'm not shelling out $140 for the nicer option that comes with the Surface.

 

I was a big fan of this guy other than the fact he doesn't have a CD/DVD drive (and of course Office)

 

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/aspire-14-touch-screen-laptop-4gb-memory-500gb-hard-drive/1883079.p?id=1219066386406&skuId=1883079&st=E1-470+-6659&cp=1&lp=1

 

 

 

 

They told me Windows 8 will only take Office 2007 or newer.  Is that smoke or legit?  I have a copy of Office 2000 I'd love to be able to salvage if possible to save from having to buy Office.

 

:doh:

[Bengals1181]

 

:doh:

 

 

:lol:

[-GoBengals-]

:sport27:

[Jamie_B]

No idea about older versions of Office TBH

[Bengals1181]

for those who have used it, I'm reading that Office and Google Docs are compatible with each other.  Does that tend to be true?  Looking into some Chromebooks that offer 100GB of Google Drive space.  I've only very briefly played around with Google Drive, Docs, spreadsheets, etc...