Jamie_B Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 [quote name='bengalrick' timestamp='1351114849' post='1174334'] Busy at work right now... I'll get back to you later tonight. [/quote] Totally understand that right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 That's why you RDP into your home computer from work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1351113066' post='1174325'] None of These Candidates is in the lead with Gary Johnson in 2nd. [/quote] I'm writing in Alf. I know it's a wasted vote since he wasn't born in the U.S.. Maybe he can find the same person that made Obama's birth certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351112696' post='1174323'] Obamacare is not enacted just yet, and it won't be for some time. There are so many lawsuits pending that it is unconstitutional that might never come into effect. Then, even if it does, it will cripple the economy because business owners and corporate companies will either make all employees into contractors or part time employees so that are responsible for buying their own insurance . You have any idea what that will do to some families? [/quote] I worked as a "contractor" full time for an employer for several years, for reasons having nothing to do with "Obamacare". This is a very common practice used to avoid paying payroll/unemployment taxes/overtime etc etc. So, unfortunately, this has been going on for as long as we've had labor laws, if not longer. Please explain to me how having a large portion of our citizens uninsured is good for the economy or anything else? [quote]Now let me get this right, investment is up, but yet all the 99% marches came during Obama's administration. The you also have to look at the Tea Party movement that came to it's highest place during Obama's time in office as well.[/quote] So you're saying the economy hasn't improved, and your proof is the existence of protesters? This is the kind of BS statement that makes me wonder why I bother replying to you at all. It's like saying your gas bill wasn't really cheaper this month because "look there are squirrels on my lawn!" [quote]So let's recap. Obama promised to draw the troops out of here and there, and instead just moved them like a three card monte with troops instead of cards.[/quote] Did he? I'm pretty sure we've been over this, and your inability to find any proof of this actually happening. He did say he was going to close Gitmo, so there's that. There are significantly less troops deployed overseas than there were when he took office. Do you know any Reservists or National Guard? Notice how they aren't in the Middle East? FFS man how are you going to bitch about the current President not bringing enough troops home from wars that were started by the party whose candidate you want to replace him with.. [quote]Then take into account Obama's other faults in diplomacy.[/quote] Such as? Are you still on about the embassy attack? Was 9/11 a "fault in diplomacy"? You're grasping at straws. [quote]I mean what countries has he made ties with compared to the new number of enemies?[/quote] China, Burma, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Columbia, Panama, Cuba, Korea, Russia.. Off the top of my head. What new enemies has he created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 SSH + Tunneler [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1351115435' post='1174337'] That's why you RDP into your home computer from work... [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 [quote name='Ben' timestamp='1351119777' post='1174351'] SSH + Tunneler [/quote] FreeNX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1351119217' post='1174348'] I worked as a "contractor" full time for an employer for several years, for reasons having nothing to do with "Obamacare". This is a very common practice used to avoid paying payroll/unemployment taxes/overtime etc etc. So, unfortunately, this has been going on for as long as we've had labor laws, if not longer. Please explain to me how having a large portion of our citizens uninsured is good for the economy or anything else? So you're saying the economy hasn't improved, and your proof is the existence of protesters? This is the kind of BS statement that makes me wonder why I bother replying to you at all. It's like saying your gas bill wasn't really cheaper this month because "look there are squirrels on my lawn!" Did he? I'm pretty sure we've been over this, and your inability to find any proof of this actually happening. He did say he was going to close Gitmo, so there's that. There are significantly less troops deployed overseas than there were when he took office. Do you know any Reservists or National Guard? Notice how they aren't in the Middle East? FFS man how are you going to bitch about the current President not bringing enough troops home from wars that were started by the party whose candidate you want to replace him with.. Such as? Are you still on about the embassy attack? Was 9/11 a "fault in diplomacy"? You're grasping at straws. China, Burma, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Columbia, Panama, Cuba, Korea, Russia.. Off the top of my head. What new enemies has he created? [/quote] I've read and watched several sources, where it comes straight from the business owners mouth, that if Obamacare becomes active and they are required to pay for all their insurance, they will be forced to shut down, change them to contractors, or have only part time employees. This same sentiment has been given numerous times. Wait hows does the Tea Party movements rise and the March on Wall Street protest NOT have anything to do with Obama? He is the President and his decisions and policies are at the fore front of it all. Are you telling me the President has no authority in this? I mean the President can bail out the auto industry but can't listen to the people's needs. Oh wait, the government stepped in and restricted some big businesses corporate big wigs from getting some of their bonuses, but stopped there. As far as bringing troops home, Obama "promised" that as part of his first election. Blaming Bush Jr. for Obama's problems is totally wrong. Obama knew the situation he would be inheriting and yet still decided to stand on that platform. Here is an article from 2011 where Obama PROMISES all U.S. troops to be home by the end of 2011. WoW, this is 2012 and I am pretty sure there are some troops out there. [url="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44990594/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/obama-all-us-troops-out-iraq-end-year/"]http://www.msnbc.msn...-iraq-end-year/[/url] This an MSNBC link, so all you Fox News haters can't dismiss it. This article also talks about Obama's handling of the economy. Obama's other faults in diplomacy include the attack in Libya, the increased tension with North Korea, and along with the lost drone that was somehow left for Iran to do reverse technology on. Other countries should NEVER be allowed to do that. Just like in Mogadishu, they made sure troops went in and destroyed the helicopters. Several of the countries you listed are under a new regime, or are converting to a new government. Pakistan is a new enemy, Chile has worsened, and Iran's President has threatened to go to war at anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351118471' post='1174345'] I'm writing in Alf. I know it's a wasted vote since he wasn't born in the U.S.. [b]Maybe he can find the same person that made Obama's birth certificate.[/b] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1351121802' post='1174361'] [/quote] I was going to write in Gary Coleman, but he's dead. Then I was going to write in that porn actress, but I can't remember her name. Then it came down to Arnold (the terminator one not the Gary Coleman one) or Alf. Since both were not born in the U.S. I had to pick one that would be easier to prove. Arnold has a known birth place in Austria. Alf on the other hand is off the books, and would be easier to forge a birth certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 [quote name='sois' timestamp='1351121802' post='1174361'] [/quote] Yeah, pretty much. "New enemy in Pakistan" I mean why do I even bother.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1351115435' post='1174337'] That's why you RDP into your home computer from work... [/quote] Oh I dont even have a network account yet, got to go through a whole lot of hoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1351122246' post='1174364'] Yeah, pretty much. "New enemy in Pakistan" I mean why do I even bother.. [/quote] Seriously are you kidding? In my last post I nailed you on your crusade for proof Obama's promise for troop withdraw. Now you think that Pakistan's stance with the U.S. hasn't changed during Obama's term in office? When the U.S. crossed over into Pakistan to make a raid on Bin Ladin's compound Pakistan was pissed and said that the U.S. incursion was an act of war. Now let me say, a few things about that. The U.S. and Pakistan relationship was never great, but during the gulf war, Pakistan allowed U.S. and allied planes to fly over their airspace. I also understand that the U.S probably thought that there were Asama sympathizers that might tell Bin Laden what was about to happen. Now Pakistan is definitely an enemy, one that is working on nuclear weapons. You have to look at their position and if the reverse happened in the U.S., how do you think the U.S. would respond? Do you think the U.S. would be happy if Canada flew some troops into Michigan to kill someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1351110888' post='1174320'] Well, y'know, on the one hand unemployment is down, investment is up, the auto industry is intact, stop-loss for the troops has ended, Bin Laden is dead but we are still actively hunting terrorist cells throughout the Mideast & Africa, and no American is going to be denied healthcare. [b]On the other hand, Mitt Romney will turn this country into a theocracy, send your job overseas, and not even pay taxes on the resulting profits. [/b] I'm with oldschooler in that I don't see how this is still a race. Bunch of protest voters, basically. Unless you are a rich white guy with no women in your life, in which case Romney is absolutely your candidate. [/quote] Come on. You sound about as credible as the guys on the other side of the fence going on about how Obama is a Muslim. Romney is a religious dude but that doesn't mean he's going to make us all wear magic underwear if he wins. JFK was a Catholic and people freaked because they thought the Pope was going to be running the country. That ended up giving us one of our most beloved presidents. If you want to base it on record, Romney is way more of a bipartisan operator than Obama. Obama's foreign policy is a mess, the economic recovery is stunted, and yes, Obamacare WILL hurt small business. Just as an example off the top of my head, the company that owns Red Lobster and some other restaurant chains is piloting a program that prevents any of its hourly employees from working over 32 hours a week (thus being considered full time and entitled to employer health benefits). If Obama had a good record to run on, he would be doing it. That's not just my opinion, that's a political consensus from essentially every credible source. Even Andrew Sullivan, The Daily Beast's resident Obama homer, acknowledges that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Wait I didn't get the memo. If Romney is elected he is going to legalize polygamy and enact rules off a gold slab that is read out of a hat? Saying Romney's religion is going to affect the country. That is some of the most irrational thinking I have ever heard. If their was any religion that would make a difference, it would be a Catholic President. Many Catholics do not believe in Obama's medical insurance plan because it covers things that Catholics are religiously against. So therefore they believe it is an infringement on their religious rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 [quote name='Homer_Rice' timestamp='1351094016' post='1174247'] I thought I'd post a link to [url="http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/10/21/president-obama-s-executive-power-grab.html"]"President Obama's Executive Power Grab"[/url] as it represents an adequate summary relevant to the gridlock in DC. This is a trend that I do not like but it is important to note where the authors attribute much of the blame. And Ornstein is one of the brightest conservative minds out there. Do not always agree with him but I have high regard for his opinions. [color=#ff0000]And I'll be voting for Obama because I prefer his half-assery to what the Romney/Ryan ticket represents.[/color] And finally, last call for those who might want to join in on the discussion of Herbert Agar's book, "The Price of Union." We'll be kicking things into gear over the next few weeks. Anyone else interested, send me a PM. [/quote] x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1351097853' post='1174269'] And to speak on the economy: It may end up being the thing that trips up Romney, not Obama. I live in the city that was (arguably) hardest hit by the Depression. Highest foreclosure rate in the country, highest unemployment rate in the country. Things are changing here. Unemployment is down. The amount of home construction the last 6 months has increased exponentially. The number of foreclosures is down ([color=#ff0000]granted this is because our AG told every bank that if any more homes were improperly foreclosed on she would send them to Pound Me In The Ass Prison[/color]). Numerous [b]massive[/b] commercial construction projects that had been abandoned in 2008 have received new investments and have been restarted. Now, I don't believe for one second that the fundamental flaws in our economy (unfair tax implementation\not enough taxes, crushing debt, whoring ourselves out to China, etc.) have been addressed at all, and I don't believe that this improvement is lasting or long term. HOWEVER, investors, banks, and venture capitalists think that things have improved enough in a city [b]built entirely on people spending disposable income [/b]that they are beginning to invest again. Empirical, I know, but it doesn't make the real improvements that I see every day on my commute any less real. YMMV... [/quote] Sad a woman has more balls than most men AG's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1351103248' post='1174294'] Your point is dead-on and one of my favorite things about presidential history. And sadly neither of us will likely see the complete historical judgement of Obama. I have always believed that a true picture of any president can never be seen until the last generation that remembers them is dead. Only then can the emotion and personal investment in a president's persona be stripped away allowing historians to judge them on their actions based on the situation at that point in time. Case in point for me has been watching the perception of Eisenhower's presidency ebb and flow over the last 25 years, from mediocre to a steward of our financial and infrastructural growth. We are within a generation or so of getting a much more complete picture of Ike, and I think it will be fairly flattering. Just a random tidbit on my background: I've been to every presidential library except for Clinton and Shrub. Clinton's because I really hate Arkansas and I just don't care for that triangulating SOB. Shrub, the only way I'd go to his library is to take a shit on the front steps. "Library". They should have called it a simpleton asylum... [/quote] Anyone that was a vet of WWI and WWII, a five star general grad of West Point (one of our best institutions to this day, IMO), a Supreme Allied Commander in WWII and for NATO, served two Presidential terms, built the highways that define our nation, oversaw much of the Korean war....AND whose parting shot as a dyed in the wool military man warned us against what we see today, the military-industrial complex as an influencer of policy....is a good man. I admire and like Ike. Wasn't he the last President that was also a General? I think he was. We need more people like him right now. I am an admirer, especially with the way he handled the multiple personalities under his command in WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 [quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1351098455' post='1174272'] I believe he misspoke. Even so I'm smart enough to know I'm not a moocher. If you are capable of earning money for yourself and choose to sit on your ass, smoking, doing drugs and getting drunk every day collecting a check for food and water that is what I have a problem with. That is what I see every single day. Elderly, handicapped, children, etc absolutely are entitled to food and water. [/quote] Reminds me of my cousin's views as he is a cop as well, you see the worst society has to offer then project that onto everyone. Think harder. Although my cousin quickly became a bit more liberal when the republican governers started attacking the public sector unions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 [quote name='Elflocko' timestamp='1351106356' post='1174304'] Re: Clinton He signed NAFTA He signed the act repealing Glass-Stegall His "economic growth" was based on consumers leveraging and taking on debt in historic proportions. He did practically nothing after the terrorist attacks in 1993 allow al Qaida to fester and grow. Perhaps your esteem is tinged with a bit if nostalgia? [/quote] Yeah fuck Clinton, even if he did have a surplus and begin to pay down the debit, alot of his "wealth creation" was smoke and mirrors. He and Reagan are two of the big problems of why we are where we are, Clinton with what you mention and Reagan with his union busting which allowed for huge income disparity. Then of course there is 'Dubya.... who belongs in a whole other category of bad. History will remember Obama as one more President in the line of Neoliberals causing the problems we face right now and making things good for the oligarchs but bad for the citizenry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Yes, earlier in this thread I gave a few stats about Eisenhower and his accomplishments as President. Eisenhower was appointed Commanding General of the European Theater of Operations. He was also the first supreme commander of NATO. He was also the last President to produce a surplus in the federal budget, and of coarse he was a Republican. Did I mention he is a Republican and is the last President to have a surplus in the federal budget?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351126255' post='1174389'] Yes, earlier in this thread I gave a few stats about Eisenhower and his accomplishments as President. Eisenhower was appointed Commanding General of the European Theater of Operations. He was also the first supreme commander of NATO. He was also the last President to produce a surplus in the federal budget, and of coarse he was a Republican. Did I mention he is a Republican and is the last President to have a surplus in the federal budget?... [/quote] Unfortunately, IMO he was the last Republican President that actually adhered to Republican principals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1351126191' post='1174388'] Yeah fuck Clinton, even if he did have a surplus and begin to pay down the debit, alot of his "wealth creation" was smoke and mirrors. He and Reagan are two of the big problems of why we are where we are, Clinton with what you mention and Reagan with his union busting which allowed for huge income disparity. Then of course there is 'Dubya.... who belongs in a whole other category of bad. History will remember Obama as one more President in the line of Neoliberals causing the problems we face right now and making things good for the oligarchs but bad for the citizenry. [/quote] Here is a web page that clarifies a statement I made earlier concerning Clinton and his surplus budget. http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16 This article shows how facts can be found on the treasury website to clarify the magical work of Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351122830' post='1174366'] Seriously are you kidding? In my last post I nailed you on your crusade for proof Obama's promise for troop withdraw. Now you think that Pakistan's stance with the U.S. hasn't changed during Obama's term in office? When the U.S. crossed over into Pakistan to make a raid on Bin Ladin's compound Pakistan was pissed and said that the U.S. incursion was an act of war. Now let me say, a few things about that. The U.S. and Pakistan relationship was never great, but during the gulf war, Pakistan allowed U.S. and allied planes to fly over their airspace. I also understand that the U.S probably thought that there were Asama sympathizers that might tell Bin Laden what was about to happen. Now Pakistan is definitely an enemy, one that is working on nuclear weapons. You have to look at their position and if the reverse happened in the U.S., how do you think the U.S. would respond? Do you think the U.S. would be happy if Canada flew some troops into Michigan to kill someone? [/quote] Pakistan isn't "working on nuclear weapons"...it already has them, and so does their "mortal enemy" India. We as a nation tread somewhere in between them both...using a placating diplomacy due to India's vastly growing technology sector and Pakistan's alleged "help" in the alleged "war on terror". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 [quote name='Bunghole' timestamp='1351126573' post='1174390'] Unfortunately, IMO he was the last Republican President that actually adhered to Republican principals. [/quote] A big part of that comes down special interest groups and lobbyist. Government officials can too easily be bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351126255' post='1174389'] Yes, earlier in this thread I gave a few stats about Eisenhower and his accomplishments as President. Eisenhower was appointed Commanding General of the European Theater of Operations. He was also the first supreme commander of NATO. [color=#ff0000]He was also the last President to produce a surplus in the federal budget[/color], and of coarse he was a Republican. Did I mention he is a Republican and is the last President to have a surplus in the federal budget?... [/quote] [img]http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2010/09/21/couric_clinton3_921_480x360.jpg[/img] [size=6]What you talkin' about Willis?[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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