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Obama to cut medical benefits for active, retired military, not union workers


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Just to come back to my point about our priorities and the defense budget....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

 

 

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The world's top 5 military spenders in 2012.

 

 

If all we did was reduce the spending by 200 billion we'd still be so far ahead of the rest of them, and could divert that savings into other areas of importance, hell if we recuded it by 300 we would still be spending 3xs what China is spending.

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Amish, I don't mind them paying less than I pay.  However, to act like paying 1/3 of what I pay is this major problem is what I have a problem with. 

For what our service members and their families have to endure in addition to shitty pay (especially in the enlisted ranks), they shouldn't have to pay anything for their healthcare while on active duty or if they serve at least 20 years, Ken. That's always been part of the deal. Now it's not. It's bullshit.

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For what our service members and their families have to endure in addition to shitty pay (especially in the enlisted ranks), they shouldn't have to pay anything for their healthcare while on active duty or if they serve at least 20 years, Ken. That's always been part of the deal. Now it's not. It's bullshit.


What do you consider shitty pay?
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What do you consider shitty pay?

 

I dunno, what do you think is "good pay" for putting your life on the line, killing other people, shitting in a hole for weeks on end (forget having a shower) and eating cold meals out of a box?  Then there's the possibility of getting captured and tortured and having your head cut off on the internet.. If that sounds like too much fun, how about just settling for the loss of a limb and sexual dysfunction for the rest of your life.

 

Who needs good compensation with all those side benefits!

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A better question would be what do you consider appropriate pay for a member of the armed forces?

 

I can give an example.  As some here know, I worked Law Enforcement for a considerable time while in the military.  Working alongside civilian contractors hired to do the same exact functional job description.  Approximately, 1.5 to 2 times more pay for the exact same job description.  Granted, civilians were given a paid day off for holidays while the military equivalent still worked.  Civilians were not required to escort ammo loaded airplanes, ammo reloads, lay concertina wire, fire weapons during war time scenarios and or drills, etc...   So while the job was functionally the same, there were some obvious benefits to being a civilian.  A civilian was able to pay more for their health care and received the ability to choose which healthcare provider they went to.  A military member had to go to whatever military provider they were told to go to. 

 

For purposes of the discussion, lets say the military members salary was $20,000 and the civilians was $40,000.  Both are eligible for retirement benefits upon end of their eligibility date (roughly 20 years for each).  A civilian will receive a significant amount more in retirement pay, will receive a discounted healthcare costs although still paying more than their military counterpart, will have established him or herself in a much better situation whereas the military member has been uprooted every 3 or 4 years to move to a different location, etc... 

 

For purposes of the discussion, lets say the military member pays $400 every 3 months for healthcare and the civilian pays $1600 every 3 months for healthcare.

 

$40,000 a year salary - $6400 a year for healthcare = $33600

$20,000 a year salary - $1600 a year for healthcare = $19400

 

Total disparity = $14,200 a year

 

Military housing if there is room for the military member (usually not available right away which requires renting on the civilian market for a short time) is a benefit to be considered.  An equivalent structure used to go upwards of $1000 a month or more if you live in places like California or Hawaii.  So, the military pay and civilian pay start to look similar after figuring that part in.  Its down to roughly a disparity of about $2000 a year or so.  Sounds like I am making a case for cutting the healthcare ?  No.  There are so many other things to take into account other than what is mentioned in this post.  Rates of divorce are extremely high regardless of military job field as compared to the civilian sector.  You get shot at comparatively higher rate than your civilian counterpart.  Healthcare in the military system sucks in that the doctors in the system rotate in and out of the system and care is not consistent from one doctor to the next.  I'd have loved to pick my own doctors but lived too close to the bases to be considered outside the range of the Tricare system.  At the hands of military healthcare and military transport crashes, I have lost ALOT.  Some of you that I have met know this.  For those of you that don't know, the military healthcare system is not liable for their fuckups to the extent that a civilian counterpart would be.  I could go on and on and on...  Maybe I'll add more later but the truth is that until someone has lived on the "inside" of the military system it is near impossible to understand how much of a disparity there is between the military and civilian counterparts.

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One more...

 

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/network-consultant-salary-SRCH_KO0,18_SDAS.htm

 

Network Consultant salary range:  $208,000 - $43,000

 

Usual equivalent military pay grade for Network Consultant is an E-6 and sometimes an E-5.  The high end of their salary is right around $3000 a month or $36,000 a year TOPS and doesn't go much higher than that.  I have seen a couple of civilians in this same exact position earning nearly $125,000 a year.  No, no disparity there (sarcasm intended).  Amish, I think it was a GS-14 and I don't remember which "step" he was on.  Can you put forth an anonymous equivalent from your experience ?

 

...OR for those that want to, post what your average salary is (doesn't have to be exactly what it is but go ahead and give the above link a try to find out what average people earn in your field) and then try to find a military equivalent.  Pretty sure most would be happy with what they have and not want to trade.  However, for those that work in a McDonalds or the like consider this...  Serve food to a ships complement of approximately 5000 or more sailors, clean up after them, suffer through the inevitable air conditioning failure, wash their dishes, get food plates thrown at you, offload and onload all the food supplies, prepare and cook literally tons of food a day, and work approximately 12- 18 hour days, 5 - 7 days a week.  No overtime and no this job sucks I'm quitting either.  When you go home at the end of the day, in your soft comfortable bed and take a shower in the privacy of your own bathroom, just remember there is a military equivalent going to sleep in a 3' x 6' bed (stacked 3 or 4 high) and take a shower in an open shower arrangement with toilets that are frequently overflowing, etc...  Pretty sure most would say at this point, would you like fries with that...  Note:  Most "new" enlisted sailors are required to serve time on the "mess decks" as part of their initial assignment and many are required to go back there time and time again.  Yes, there are people who are permanently assigned to do this job for their entire time in the military until they are advanced in rank enough to escape the confines of hell that they call the mess decks.

 

...OR for those that want to compare the Officer ranks, picture what the Captain of a Carrier makes compared to a CEO of an equivalent sized company.  ...OR a surgeon  ...OR a pilot, etc...

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I can give an example.  As some here know, I worked Law Enforcement for a considerable time while in the military.  Working alongside civilian contractors hired to do the same exact functional job description.  Approximately, 1.5 to 2 times more pay for the exact same job description.  Granted, civilians were given a paid day off for holidays while the military equivalent still worked.  Civilians were not required to escort ammo loaded airplanes, ammo reloads, lay concertina wire, fire weapons during war time scenarios and or drills, etc...   So while the job was functionally the same, there were some obvious benefits to being a civilian.  A civilian was able to pay more for their health care and received the ability to choose which healthcare provider they went to.  A military member had to go to whatever military provider they were told to go to. 

 

For purposes of the discussion, lets say the military members salary was $20,000 and the civilians was $40,000.  Both are eligible for retirement benefits upon end of their eligibility date (roughly 20 years for each).  A civilian will receive a significant amount more in retirement pay, will receive a discounted healthcare costs although still paying more than their military counterpart, will have established him or herself in a much better situation whereas the military member has been uprooted every 3 or 4 years to move to a different location, etc... 

 

For purposes of the discussion, lets say the military member pays $400 every 3 months for healthcare and the civilian pays $1600 every 3 months for healthcare.

 

$40,000 a year salary - $6400 a year for healthcare = $33600

$20,000 a year salary - $1600 a year for healthcare = $19400

 

Total disparity = $14,200 a year

 

Military housing if there is room for the military member (usually not available right away which requires renting on the civilian market for a short time) is a benefit to be considered.  An equivalent structure used to go upwards of $1000 a month or more if you live in places like California or Hawaii.  So, the military pay and civilian pay start to look similar after figuring that part in.  Its down to roughly a disparity of about $2000 a year or so.  Sounds like I am making a case for cutting the healthcare ?  No.  There are so many other things to take into account other than what is mentioned in this post.  Rates of divorce are extremely high regardless of military job field as compared to the civilian sector.  You get shot at comparatively higher rate than your civilian counterpart.  Healthcare in the military system sucks in that the doctors in the system rotate in and out of the system and care is not consistent from one doctor to the next.  I'd have loved to pick my own doctors but lived too close to the bases to be considered outside the range of the Tricare system.  At the hands of military healthcare and military transport crashes, I have lost ALOT.  Some of you that I have met know this.  For those of you that don't know, the military healthcare system is not liable for their fuckups to the extent that a civilian counterpart would be.  I could go on and on and on...  Maybe I'll add more later but the truth is that until someone has lived on the "inside" of the military system it is near impossible to understand how much of a disparity there is between the military and civilian counterparts.

 

Thank you for providing the information that I suspected but lacked the knowledge and experience to provide... 

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Before you get your panties in a wad, do you know who the Washington Free Beacon is ?  See the following article http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/washington_free_beacon .

 

The only one I've seen who wanted to cut service men's benefits was Michelle Bachman.

She proposed a wildly unpopular plan to slash $4.5 billion in veterans services and reduce disability compensation for 150,000 veterans. Veterans groups blasted the proposal as “heartless,” “totally out of step with America’s commitment to our veterans,” and “showing contempt for American service members’ sacrifices.” Facing an avalanche of criticism, Bachmann eventually withdrew her proposal.

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I can give an example.  As some here know, I worked Law Enforcement for a considerable time while in the military.  Working alongside civilian contractors hired to do the same exact functional job description.  Approximately, 1.5 to 2 times more pay for the exact same job description.  Granted, civilians were given a paid day off for holidays while the military equivalent still worked.  Civilians were not required to escort ammo loaded airplanes, ammo reloads, lay concertina wire, fire weapons during war time scenarios and or drills, etc...   So while the job was functionally the same, there were some obvious benefits to being a civilian.  A civilian was able to pay more for their health care and received the ability to choose which healthcare provider they went to.  A military member had to go to whatever military provider they were told to go to. 
 
For purposes of the discussion, lets say the military members salary was $20,000 and the civilians was $40,000.  Both are eligible for retirement benefits upon end of their eligibility date (roughly 20 years for each).  A civilian will receive a significant amount more in retirement pay, will receive a discounted healthcare costs although still paying more than their military counterpart, will have established him or herself in a much better situation whereas the military member has been uprooted every 3 or 4 years to move to a different location, etc... 
 
For purposes of the discussion, lets say the military member pays $400 every 3 months for healthcare and the civilian pays $1600 every 3 months for healthcare.
 
$40,000 a year salary - $6400 a year for healthcare = $33600
$20,000 a year salary - $1600 a year for healthcare = $19400
 
Total disparity = $14,200 a year
 
Military housing if there is room for the military member (usually not available right away which requires renting on the civilian market for a short time) is a benefit to be considered.  An equivalent structure used to go upwards of $1000 a month or more if you live in places like California or Hawaii.  So, the military pay and civilian pay start to look similar after figuring that part in.  Its down to roughly a disparity of about $2000 a year or so.  Sounds like I am making a case for cutting the healthcare ?  No.  There are so many other things to take into account other than what is mentioned in this post.  Rates of divorce are extremely high regardless of military job field as compared to the civilian sector.  You get shot at comparatively higher rate than your civilian counterpart.  Healthcare in the military system sucks in that the doctors in the system rotate in and out of the system and care is not consistent from one doctor to the next.  I'd have loved to pick my own doctors but lived too close to the bases to be considered outside the range of the Tricare system.  At the hands of military healthcare and military transport crashes, I have lost ALOT.  Some of you that I have met know this.  For those of you that don't know, the military healthcare system is not liable for their fuckups to the extent that a civilian counterpart would be.  I could go on and on and on...  Maybe I'll add more later but the truth is that until someone has lived on the "inside" of the military system it is near impossible to understand how much of a disparity there is between the military and civilian counterparts.


I work for a university and it's pretty shutty pay.
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I dunno, what do you think is "good pay" for putting your life on the line, killing other people, shitting in a hole for weeks on end (forget having a shower) and eating cold meals out of a box?  Then there's the possibility of getting captured and tortured and having your head cut off on the internet.. If that sounds like too much fun, how about just settling for the loss of a limb and sexual dysfunction for the rest of your life.
 
Who needs good compensation with all those side benefits!


I think that they should make a lot You won't get an argument out of me. I was just trying to see what people considered shitty pay.

I think when your deployed your pay does go way up. As it should.
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Before you get your panties in a wad, do you know who the Washington Free Beacon is ?  See the following article http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/washington_free_beacon .

 

The only one I've seen who wanted to cut service men's benefits was Michelle Bachman.

She proposed a wildly unpopular plan to slash $4.5 billion in veterans services and reduce disability compensation for 150,000 veterans. Veterans groups blasted the proposal as “heartless,” “totally out of step with America’s commitment to our veterans,” and “showing contempt for American service members’ sacrifices.” Facing an avalanche of criticism, Bachmann eventually withdrew her proposal.

Military vets have been on the receiving end of all kinds of bullshit, whether it's the Bonus Marchers, Vietnam Vets, the VA being dysfunctionally slow or now reducing medical care for the very people we sometimes callously put in harm's way. It was bullshit then, and it's bullshit now. Veterans deserve more than our respect, they deserve to be cared for in a meaningful way after the fact, and our government has by and large always failed them. Too may cases slipping through the cracks, too many vets not getting what they need or deserve, too much foot-dragging over disability, etc, etc....it goes on forever. And now with PTSD being the order of the day, the VA is hopelessly overwhelmed.

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