Jan 6 hearings

[Jamie_B]

Anyone watching this?

 

 

[|Montana Bengal|]

3 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

Anyone watching this?

 

 

I watched this evening

[Jamie_B]

It amazes me how anyone could call this anything other than an insurrection 

[T-Dub]

15 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

Anyone watching this?

 

 

 

 

Why? Is anyone going to lose their office over this? Are the ringleaders going to see any kind of serious consequences?

 

It's just a line of people grandstanding.

[Jamie_B]

2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

Why? Is anyone going to lose their office over this? Are the ringleaders going to see any kind of serious consequences?

 

It's just a line of people grandstanding.

 

 

No idea, they did mention that a few congressmen asked the President for a pardon, not sure what to make of that as far as any repercussions are concerned. 

[T-Dub]

2 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

No idea, they did mention that a few congressmen asked the President for a pardon, not sure what to make of that as far as any repercussions are concerned. 

 

 

Great, where's the list? Let's charge them with whatever they thought they needed pardons for?

[T-Dub]

@sparky151

 

This is the place for discussing Del Rio & the rest.

 

Just wanted to say that claiming Babbitt was the only "intentional" death is misleading.  If a mob beats you with pipes and boards & you die it doesn't really matter if they only meant to disable you.  

 

More broadly, I have no idea how protests over police brutality and racial profiling excuse or even relate to white supremacists trying to overthrow the elected government.  That's treason and anyone that plotted it beforehand should be hung IMO.  It was a failed coup, period and point blank.

[Jamie_B]

26 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

@sparky151

 

This is the place for discussing Del Rio & the rest.

 

Just wanted to say that claiming Babbitt was the only "intentional" death is misleading.  If a mob beats you with pipes and boards & you die it doesn't really matter if they only meant to disable you.  

 

More broadly, I have no idea how protests over police brutality and racial profiling excuse or even relate to white supremacists trying to overthrow the elected government.  That's treason and anyone that plotted it beforehand should be hung IMO.  It was a failed coup, period and point blank.

 

 

Hanging is a bit extreme or even the death penalty at all. Jail for every single one of them for a very long time though I fully support. 

 

Nobody should ever have to DM their friend, who is a Capitol Police Officer, to be safe on that day. I had to do that. 

 

So fuck them and fuck anyone who downplays it as anything other than treason. 

[T-Dub]

17 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

Hanging is a bit extreme or even the death penalty at all.

 

 

Not for the ringleaders, not in my mind.  It was an attempted coup and should be dealt with as such, I don't want them left alone to plot the next one.

 

Quote

Nobody should ever have to DM their friend, who is a Capitol Police Officer, to be safe on that day. I had to do that. 

 

 

Would love to know their thoughts on the short staffing, delayed response, and this.. People were killed and injured, pipe bombs and weapons caches were found, yet they all just wandered off mostly untouched:

 

[Jamie_B]

I would suggest that tactically arresting people en mass would be counter productive to ensuring the buildings were secure and nothing else could go down.

You can arrest folks after the fact as we have seen.

[T-Dub]

16 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

I would suggest that tactically arresting people en mass would be counter productive to ensuring the buildings were secure and nothing else could go down.

You can arrest folks after the fact as we have seen.

 

You're not wrong but that would hold more weight if we hadn't seen the extreme responses from police over and over again over the past few years.  Where were the rubber bullets and tear gas? 

[Jamie_B]

For those that want to downplay this and just call it a riot, the Proud Boys had actual documentation on doing a takeover of government buildings, the document was called '1776 Returns'

 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/03/capitol-riot-trial-prosecution-enrique-tarrio.html#:~:text=“1776 Returns%2C” a nine-page document federal prosecutors have,to storm government buildings on Jan. 6%2C 2021.

[T-Dub]

3 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

For those that want to downplay this and just call it a riot,

 

 

It's funny because if you question those same people as to what the point was they will beat around the bush and eventually circle back to insurrection.  

 

Or, more likely, try to change the subject to BLM protests.

[Jamie_B]

30 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

It's funny because if you question those same people as to what the point was they will beat around the bush and eventually circle back to insurrection.  

 

Or, more likely, try to change the subject to BLM protests.

 

 

Yup. A false equivalency for sure.

[T-Dub]

4 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

Yup. A false equivalency for sure.

 

If the DC BLM protestors had tried to storm the Capitol they would've been mowed down on the steps.

[fluhartz]

On 6/12/2022 at 7:34 PM, T-Dub said:

 

If the DC BLM protestors had tried to storm the Capitol they would've been mowed down on the steps.

 

 

No doubt about that, and every single person that wasn't killed would have been arrested.

[|SF2|]

On 6/16/2022 at 12:16 PM, fluhartz said:

 

 

No doubt about that, and every single person that wasn't killed would have been arrested.

Well, they caused plenty of damage, killed a few people, committed acts of arson and assaulted 100s of armed police officers yet nobody was ever mowed down and very few were arrested.  Hardly any served any time.   Seems like a strawman argument to me. 

[fluhartz]

1 hour ago, SF2 said:

Well, they caused plenty of damage, killed a few people, committed acts of arson and assaulted 100s of armed police officers yet nobody was ever mowed down and very few were arrested.  Hardly any served any time.   Seems like a strawman argument to me. 

they weren't charging the capital building and threatening to hang high ranking democratic government people.. If so, they would have been mowed down.. 

but ok

[|SF2|]

10 minutes ago, fluhartz said:

they weren't charging the capital building and threatening to hang high ranking democratic government people.. If so, they would have been mowed down.. 

but ok

Nobody knew what their intentions were. If they had proclaimed such a thing beforehand they never would have made in into the building.  

[fluhartz]

11 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Nobody knew what their intentions were. If they had proclaimed such a thing beforehand they never would have made in into the building.  

ok

[Jamie_B]

1 hour ago, SF2 said:

Nobody knew what their intentions were. If they had proclaimed such a thing beforehand they never would have made in into the building.  

 

Are we talking about the BLM folks or the Jan 6 folks?

 

Because if were talking about the Jan 6 folks 

 

On 6/12/2022 at 10:16 AM, Jamie_B said:

For those that want to downplay this and just call it a riot, the Proud Boys had actual documentation on doing a takeover of government buildings, the document was called '1776 Returns'

 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/03/capitol-riot-trial-prosecution-enrique-tarrio.html#:~:text=“1776 Returns%2C” a nine-page document federal prosecutors have,to storm government buildings on Jan. 6%2C 2021.

 

[fluhartz]

3 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

Are we talking about the BLM folks or the Jan 6 folks?

 

Because if were talking about the Jan 6 folks 

 

 

right.. I don't see how anyone can see this as anything but an attempt at a hostile takeover. 

 

unless you're Jack Del Rio.. then it's just a little dust up.. lol.. fucking clown 

[|SF2|]

5 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

Are we talking about the BLM folks or the Jan 6 folks?

 

Because if were talking about the Jan 6 folks 

 

 

Again, these are all documents found after the fact.  If this stuff had been know before the riot, they would not have made it inside.  

 

And the cold hard fact is the first person who illegally stepped foot inside the Capitol should have been shot dead in front of his fellow douche bags. That would have ended it.  Ashil  Babbitt was the last person who tried to climb thru the window. 

 

 Unfortunately, like we saw in Uvalde TX,   many cops are only there to get a paycheck and work a job almost impossible to get fired from..  When the shit gets real, they  are not up to the task. 
 

Happens in the military too.  Had a few guys who demanded to be sent to the rear the night before the ground war in Desert Storm.  Their reason was they had only joined the Army for the GI Bill. After I explained they would go to prison for 10 years they changed their minds. 

 

 

[Jamie_B]

10 hours ago, SF2 said:

Again, these are all documents found after the fact.  If this stuff had been know before the riot, they would not have made it inside.  

 

And the cold hard fact is the first person who illegally stepped foot inside the Capitol should have been shot dead in front of his fellow douche bags. That would have ended it.  Ashil  Babbitt was the last person who tried to climb thru the window. 

 

 Unfortunately, like we saw in Uvalde TX,   many cops are only there to get a paycheck and work a job almost impossible to get fired from..  When the shit gets real, they  are not up to the task. 
 

Happens in the military too.  Had a few guys who demanded to be sent to the rear the night before the ground war in Desert Storm.  Their reason was they had only joined the Army for the GI Bill. After I explained they would go to prison for 10 years they changed their minds. 

 

 

 

 

Shooting the first person in the building could have led to a potential bloodbath the likes of Kent State, or worse. The cops had no idea if anyone was armed and we do know that the Proud Boys had stored arms in VA. Short of the numbers that should have been defending the Capitol based on intel reports, they handled it exactly the right way. If you want to make the argument that WAY more should have been there to not let it get out of hand in the first place and then question why that was the case seeing as they had intel on this, I'm with you. But I can't get on board with killing the first person even if I remove my issues with killing people tactically it doesn't make sense, as the unknown element of who had guns was there. 

[|SF2|]

1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

Shooting the first person in the building could have led to a potential bloodbath the likes of Kent State, or worse. The cops had no idea if anyone was armed and we do know that the Proud Boys had stored arms in VA. Short of the numbers that should have been defending the Capitol based on intel reports, they handled it exactly the right way. If you want to make the argument that WAY more should have been there to not let it get out of hand in the first place and then question why that was the case seeing as they had intel on this, I'm with you. But I can't get on board with killing the first person even if I remove my issues with killing people tactically it doesn't make sense, as the unknown element of who had guns was there. 

They were there to defend the Capital and it’s inhabitants.  You don’t do that by letting everyone in.  And if these guys were armed then what?  A shootout inside the Capital building?

 

Never in my military career would I let the enemy into my defensive area and hope for the best.   That isn’t how it works.   All it did was embolden the rioters to press forward. 
 

And the cold hard reality of Kent State is all of the protesting ended once the shooting started.  If you throw shit at someone with a loaded gun, bad things can happen.