Olbermann: Special Comment on Geraldine Ferraro

[bengalrick]

yeah, my wife goes nuts when she hears that word...

i agree w/ you on this one scarlett... that isn't a word that should be thrown around lightly...

[ScarletKnight]

[quote name='Lucid' post='643357' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:56 PM']Around here?


no.


Insulting labels and childish insults are pretty much the norm.[/quote]

Oh then what was your point? If that wasn't fiery then what was mine? Obviously, not fiery if its simply the norm around here.

Really this doesn't need to turn into some argument. This thread isn't about that word, but I was shocked that someone would use such language. When you talk politics your supposed to talk politics with a little bit of knowledge and clearly that was not what we were seeing in that specific case.

Seriously, I feel as though elections are some big American Idol competition. No one can tell you diddly squat about a candidates policies but their ready to shoot out names for what reason? "I just don't like her/him." Politics in this country have become a joke. We are too concerned with how much a hair cut costs, or how the candidate smiles, or what they wear. The important things seem to continually be left out. Funny how when the TV was invented and people could see what a candidate looked like it changed politics forever.

[BengalBacker]

Can someone explain to me what was so egregious about Ferraro's quotes that sent Olbermann over the edge? More to the point, what did she say that wasn't arguably true?

Can anyone argue that a major reason Obama is where he's at, isn't indeed because he's black? That's not a racist thing to say.

And people who worship Olbermann and despise O'Riley kill me. Those guys are all peas in a pod. The inability of so many people to see through their self-agrandizing bullshit amazes me.

[bengalrick]

[quote name='BengalBacker' post='643368' date='Mar 14 2008, 02:12 PM']Can someone explain to me what was so egregious about Ferraro's quotes that sent Olbermann over the edge? More to the point, what did she say that wasn't arguably true?

Can anyone argue that a major reason Obama is where he's at, isn't indeed because he's black? That's not a racist thing to say.[/quote]

what do you mean? 3 year freshman senators win the presidency ALL the time...

[ScarletKnight]

Regardless, she was stupid as hell for saying something like that really stupid. Perhaps she should have made a claim that was less offensive.

Personally, though if those same comments were made in the opposite light towards Hillary I wonder if there would have been any type of uproar...I tend to think not.

I myself take offense to that. What she said was not acceptable at all, her comments meant to take away from Obama as a candidate as a person. He is who he is and that should have nothing to do with what he looks like.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='643350' date='Mar 14 2008, 12:39 PM']The same line of thinking could be said of Bill Maher who went from B rate porn that was shown on USA up all night to HBO political analyst.

Too bad he doesn't have "Scantily clad blonde haired jungle women" on his show now....it would be far more interesting.[/quote]
I agree with you 100%. That is my point - why should I listen to him any more than anyone else?

[quote name='ScarletKnight' post='643365' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:10 PM']Oh then what was your point? If that wasn't fiery then what was mine? Obviously, not fiery if its simply the norm around here.

Really this doesn't need to turn into some argument. This thread isn't about that word, but I was shocked that someone would use such language. When you talk politics your supposed to talk politics with a little bit of knowledge and clearly that was not what we were seeing in that specific case.

Seriously, I feel as though elections are some big American Idol competition. [b]No one can tell you diddly squat about a candidates policies but their ready to shoot out names for what reason?[/b] "I just don't like her/him." Politics in this country have become a joke. We are too concerned with how much a hair cut costs, or how the candidate smiles, or what they wear. The important things seem to continually be left out. Funny how when the TV was invented and people could see what a candidate looked like it changed politics forever.[/quote]
Agreed... that is why Obama is so popular when he talks a great game about change but with no substance.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='ScarletKnight' post='643370' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:20 PM']Regardless, she was stupid as hell for saying something like that really stupid. Perhaps she should have made a claim that was less offensive.

Personally, though if those same comments were made in the opposite light towards Hillary I wonder if there would have been any type of uproar...I tend to think not.

I myself take offense to that. What she said was not acceptable at all, her comments meant to take away from Obama as a candidate as a person. He is who he is and that should have nothing to do with what he looks like.[/quote]
I do find it funny that people take offense to her making the claim that Obama is where he is partly because he's black yet Obama's own pastor / minister, David Wright, can make the exact same claim and nobody has any issue with it...

[|Bunghole|]

OK, I shouldn't have used that word Scarlet, and NO, just because I used it in reference to your favorite candidate doesn't mean that I am sexist, any more than if I called her a bitch or whatever.

BJ has posted many times on here that she's a cunt, and I was simply pointing out that I agreed with him (because we so rarely agree on anything), and by agreeing that she's a "cunt" is by implication agreeing that we simply don't like her as a potential President, and not because she's a woman, cunt or both but because (at least in my case) she's a Clinton, comes off as egomaniacal and self-serving, is snappish and shrill and generally rouses deep dislike in me whenever I hear her speak.

In short, I do not trust her, I do not like her, and I do not want her as President. And not because she's a woman. Woman, black man, gay man...I don't care what you are, I care about what you stand for and how I feel about you if you're going to get my vote.

That is all.

[Actium]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='643332' date='Mar 14 2008, 10:19 AM']i would hope youd notice, hell, his face is my avatar!

you dont seem to equate embracing bushs failed and perverted foreign policy and domestic policing with the neo-con agenda, i do, its as simple as that.




[b]this years election is extremely simple, its a foreign policy and economic election and obamas platform is far and away whats best for america.[/b][/quote]

Why?

(2-year-old mode off)

[|Lucid|]

What's all this about substance?

Show me 1 MAJOR candidate that has ever given meat to go with their rhetoric.


The closest I can come up with is Gore (not saying I agreed with his policies) ... And he was lambasted for being too much of a "wonk".

People rail on about wanting to hear substance, but then their eyes glaze over if they actually get it.

People want slogans and fuzzy idealism... It's sort of like religeon.. Everyone with their personal Jesus. If you don't get too specific, people can interpret your rhetoric to mean what they want.

And Scarlet. I wasn't objecting to you using fiery language.. I was talking about you assiging a label to someone you don't even know over a slang word which hasd many differing meanings.

And I agree with you concerning American politics.


But in all honesty,,, What exactly is the presidents job? S/He doesn't doesn't write or introduce legislation. S/He can't interpret law, or abolish agencies.

The president is supposed to guide our nation.. To inspire the populace to better themselves and society. The president sets an agenda and through popular mandate convinces others to thier will.

Are we relly looking a for a person who knows how to solve world hunger and keep america safe and prosperous by himself? Or one who has the capability to inspore those around them to do it?

Reagan had that...

[Actium]

[quote name='DontPushMe' post='643344' date='Mar 14 2008, 11:02 AM']I know about that stuff, the whole limbaugh/ann coulter thing. At the end of the day though, they will all come crawling back to mccain. They wanted one of the extreemists and they got a regular neo-con. They are upset but theyll still vote for him. Billo is the same.

And any thoughts that he supported obama in any way should of been gone when he spent the first 30 mins of his show ripping obama because of things his [b]retired[/b] pastor said years ago.

Dont buy into his bullshit. He tries to act independent, but when was the last he ran a negative story about a republican? He loves throwing dirt on democrats but when its a conservative he either breezes over the story or ignores it complete. Or misstates the facts. Even if he doesnt come out and say negative things about the democrats, he knows what his fans will think when they see stories he runs. Its a tired format. Air a negative story (most of the time more like gossip, a lot of the time without real facts) insulting democrats, then he quickly says "Im not sure i believe this whole thing but here it is" and proceeds to bring on 2 people to rip the democrats for him.

[b]I hate that guy. I cant wait until hes to old to do this anymore. Hes really bad for this country. Does nothing but stirs up hate.[/b][/quote]

notice anything funny about this?

here's the thing about those who spend all their time railing about fearmongers--they are usually fearmongering against fearmongers. It's politics, don't take it too seriously. Because like the Bengals, politicos always let you down.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='BengalBacker' post='643368' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:12 PM']Can someone explain to me what was so egregious about Ferraro's quotes that sent Olbermann over the edge? More to the point, what did she say that wasn't arguably true?

[b]Can anyone argue that a major reason Obama is where he's at, isn't indeed because he's black?[/b] That's not a racist thing to say.

And people who worship Olbermann and despise O'Riley kill me. Those guys are all peas in a pod. The inability of so many people to see through their self-agrandizing bullshit amazes me.[/quote]
I don't think you can, BB. And so what if it's true...he IS part African American, after all!

I wonder if the "novelty" of his being black somehow comprises this "urge for change" that so many are echoing from him. Now, I agree that some changes are needed after 8 years of Bush and Co, but I don't want to elect a candidate simply because he says it's needed, rather, explain why it's needed and HOW you are going to implement said changes.

We've never had anything other than a white male President. I wonder if some are going to vote for Obama simply because he's black and not because of what he stands for?

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='643372' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:31 PM']I do find it funny that people take offense to her making the claim that Obama is where he is partly because he's black yet Obama's own pastor / minister, David Wright, can make the exact same claim and nobody has any issue with it...[/quote]


Ferraro was working for the Clinton campaign, and is a powerfull democratic insider.

Obama's pastor is a crazy old guy who is known to say crazy shit, and has absolutely nothing to do with Obamas candidacy.


There is a difference.

[bengalrick]

[quote name='Actium' post='643379' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:47 PM']notice anything funny about this?

here's the thing about those who spend all their time railing about fearmongers--they are usually fearmongering against fearmongers. It's politics, don't take it too seriously. Because like the Bengals, politicos always let you down.[/quote]

damn did you nail the head of the nail w/ that comment...

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='Lucid' post='643381' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:49 PM']Ferraro was working for the Clinton campaign, and is a powerfull democratic insider.

[b]Obama's pastor is a crazy old guy who is known to say crazy shit, and has absolutely nothing to do with Obamas candidacy.
[/b]

There is a difference.[/quote]
Yet, Obama has been going to him for the last 20-odd years, was married by this man, had his kids baptized by this "crazy old guy", gave over $20,000 last year alone, etc....

Apparently, nobody should question Obama about his choice of spiritual advisors for better than 1/2 of his life when the guy just out and out spouts reverse-racism, blatantly. Nobody can deny that.


I'd have to question a man's judgement in that instance, wouldn't you...

[Actium]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='643385' date='Mar 14 2008, 12:57 PM']Yet, Obama has been going to him for the last 20-odd years, was married by this man, had his kids baptized by this "crazy old guy", gave over $20,000 last year alone, etc....

Apparently, nobody should question Obama about his choice of spiritual advisors for better than 1/2 of his life when the guy just out and out spouts reverse-racism, blatantly. Nobody can deny that.


I'd have to question a man's judgement in that instance, wouldn't you...[/quote]

He is also credited with coming up with the name of Obama's book, The Audacity of Hope

[url="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-wright_11feb11,1,6128527.story?track=rss"]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/...story?track=rss[/url]

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='643385' date='Mar 14 2008, 02:57 PM']Yet, Obama has been going to him for the last 20-odd years, was married by this man, had his kids baptized by this "crazy old guy", gave over $20,000 last year alone, etc....

Apparently, nobody should question Obama about his choice of spiritual advisors for better than 1/2 of his life when the guy just out and out spouts reverse-racism, blatantly. Nobody can deny that.


I'd have to question a man's judgement in that instance, wouldn't you...[/quote]


Please... Do I really need to present a list of powerful and politically connected christian leaders (of any color) that spout crazy racist bullshit all the time too?

And what is so overtly horrible about suggesting that America is run by rich white people? I think it's in poor taste to say... But it's not like he's endorsing hate crimes, or inciting to violence.

And that church is the largest of it's denomination in Chicago. It's not like it's some cultish "hate whitey" church.

But in short... No I don't think it's relevant what someones preecher says. Unless they are preeching hate, and inciting violence.

McCain's mom says some pretty crazy shit too... I don't hold that against John.

[Actium]

[quote name='Lucid' post='643389' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:03 PM']Please... Do I really need to present a list of powerful and politically connected christian leaders (of any color) that spout crazy racist bullshit all the time too?

And what is so overtly horrible about suggesting that America is run by rich white people? I think it's in poor taste to say... But it's not like he's endorsing hate crimes, or inciting to violence.

And that church is the largest of it's denomination in Chicago. It's not like it's some cultish "hate whitey" church.

But in short... No I don't think it's relevant what someones preecher says. Unless they are preeching hate, and inciting violence.

McCain's mom says some pretty crazy shit too... I don't hold that against John.[/quote]

As a practical matter, a mentor saying "God Damn America" and "America brought on 9-11 because of her own Terrorism" only weeks after 9-11 is going to hurt a candidate, fair or not.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Lucid' post='643389' date='Mar 14 2008, 03:03 PM']Please... Do I really need to present a list of powerful and politically connected christian leaders (of any color) that spout crazy racist bullshit all the time too?

And what is so overtly horrible about suggesting that America is run by rich white people? I think it's in poor taste to say... But it's not like he's endorsing hate crimes, or inciting to violence.

And that church is the largest of it's denomination in Chicago. It's not like it's some cultish "hate whitey" church.

But in short... No I don't think it's relevant what someones preecher says. Unless they are preeching hate, and inciting violence.[/quote]

We have a racial issue in my city going on right now that gave us the privilege of the presence of Jesse Jackson for a day. The company line of most of the black pastors is "We do not condone violence, but we can not stop the violence if it happens." All the while getting on the news every night stirring up crowds of people.

Their intention is to indirectly stir up people and cause problems to raise their names to the top of "their" community(how ever broad that term may become), and if the price is rioting and violence...well then so be it.

Maybe I am wrong, but I thought the job of a pastor/priest was to bring peace/faith/caring...or is it just me?


BTW I was on the call that the whole incident started over....

[ScarletKnight]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='643375' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:43 PM']OK, I shouldn't have used that word Scarlet, and NO, just because I used it in reference to your favorite candidate doesn't mean that I am sexist, any more than if I called her a bitch or whatever.

BJ has posted many times on here that she's a cunt, and I was simply pointing out that I agreed with him (because we so rarely agree on anything), and by agreeing that she's a "cunt" is by implication agreeing that we simply don't like her as a potential President, and not because she's a woman, cunt or both but because (at least in my case) she's a Clinton, comes off as egomaniacal and self-serving, is snappish and shrill and generally rouses deep dislike in me whenever I hear her speak.

In short, I do not trust her, I do not like her, and I do not want her as President. And not because she's a woman. Woman, black man, gay man...I don't care what you are, I care about what you stand for and how I feel about you if you're going to get my vote.

That is all.[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying! I just wish that word wasn't thrown around so lightly, but I do see how you do not like her as a candidate and thats your right.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Actium' post='643392' date='Mar 14 2008, 02:08 PM']As a practical matter, a mentor saying "God Damn America" and "America brought on 9-11 because of her own Terrorism" only weeks after 9-11 is going to hurt a candidate, fair or not.[/quote]


You mean like Falwell saying the gays and heathens caused Katrina?


Religeous leaders say crazy shit all the time... Because religeon, is, well, kinda crazy.

[bengalrick]

[quote name='Lucid' post='643398' date='Mar 14 2008, 03:32 PM']You mean like Falwell saying the gays and heathens caused Katrina?


Religeous leaders say crazy shit all the time... Because religeon, is, well, kinda crazy.[/quote]

If a presendential candidate has Falwell as his pastor, i would personally be very weary of that candidate... especially a candidate that hasn't said shit (a good strategy, but still) about what his true feelings on most things are... and his wife said that comment about the "first time being proud to be an american"... Just is odd, is all...

[Actium]

[quote name='Lucid' post='643398' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:32 PM']You mean like Falwell saying the gays and heathens caused Katrina?


Religeous leaders say crazy shit all the time... Because religeon, is, well, kinda crazy.[/quote]

I agree it's not fair, I hope it doesn't hurt him too much. I'd rather it be him that Hills. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Clintons are behind this.

Obama's been cruising on a golden-boy image, revelations that he belongs to a church with an angry black preacher could tarnish that.

Obama reminds me a bit of the Mule from the Foundation Trilogy--he uses his mind to win the hearts of others, and cannot be foreseen using psychohistory because of those powers. Everyone in the world would have thought Hills would be the nominee by now--Obama just broke through the political calculus.

[ScarletKnight]

[quote name='Lucid' post='643378' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:46 PM']What's all this about substance?

Show me 1 MAJOR candidate that has ever given meat to go with their rhetoric.


The closest I can come up with is Gore (not saying I agreed with his policies) ... And he was lambasted for being too much of a "wonk".

People rail on about wanting to hear substance, but then their eyes glaze over if they actually get it.

People want slogans and fuzzy idealism... It's sort of like religeon.. Everyone with their personal Jesus. If you don't get too specific, people can interpret your rhetoric to mean what they want.

And Scarlet. I wasn't objecting to you using fiery language.. I was talking about you assiging a label to someone you don't even know over a slang word which hasd many differing meanings.

And I agree with you concerning American politics.


But in all honesty,,, What exactly is the presidents job? S/He doesn't doesn't write or introduce legislation. S/He can't interpret law, or abolish agencies.

The president is supposed to guide our nation.. To inspire the populace to better themselves and society. The president sets an agenda and through popular mandate convinces others to thier will.

Are we relly looking a for a person who knows how to solve world hunger and keep america safe and prosperous by himself? Or one who has the capability to inspore those around them to do it?

Reagan had that...[/quote]

Read a few history books about Presidents, Reagan was a puppet to others. Not to mention the affects of Reagan economics aren't as sexy as we would like to think. People can inspire you with bullshit just as easily as they can inspire you with the real deal. I mean do we need to take a trip down history's lane to see where "inspiring" rhetoric has gotten certain countries?

What we need is real substance and we don't have it. You say the people eat that other stuff up and it is the truth they do and that is why you see what you see today. I am not "one of those" whom screams for substance and then rejects it when I get it. I take a lot of really awesome political science classes and I am often depressed as all hell when I walk out of them. Politics is just not the same and I think your better off being one of those who goes for fun campaign slogans and doesn't care about substance, because when you care about substance and your aware of what the hell is going on you see how messed up things are and no matter who you vote for you know your still getting screwed.

[Actium]

[quote name='ScarletKnight' post='643403' date='Mar 14 2008, 01:39 PM']Read a few history books about Presidents, Reagan was a puppet to others. Not to mention the affects of Reagan economics aren't as sexy as we would like to think. People can inspire you with bullshit just as easily as they can inspire you with the real deal. I mean do we need to take a trip down history's lane to see where "inspiring" rhetoric has gotten certain countries?

What we need is real substance and we don't have it. You say the people eat that other stuff up and it is the truth they do and that is why you see what you see today. I am not "one of those" whom screams for substance and then rejects it when I get it. I take a lot of really awesome political science classes and I am often depressed as all hell when I walk out of them. Politics is just not the same and I think your better off being one of those who goes for fun campaign slogans and doesn't care about substance, because when you care about substance and your aware of what the hell is going on you see how messed up things are and no matter who you vote for you know your still getting screwed.[/quote]

If you are going to evaluate Reagan, you have to look at where the US was before he was elected President, and where it was afterwards. That's why he is as revered as he is.