Console Wars: Who Won '08?

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[quote]By Ben Silverman

No software? No problem.

Despite early predictions that 2008 would be the year Sony regained momentum in the bitter video game console wars, it turned out to be false hope. Industry leader Nintendo stayed ahead of the pack all year, thoroughly dominating both the home console and handheld hardware markets with their Nintendo Wii and Nintendo DS systems, respectively.

According to NPD Group, Nintendo flat-out owned the all-important month of November by selling over 2 million Wiis, better than twice as much as the next closest competitor, Microsoft's Xbox 360 (836,000). And at over 1.5 million DS systems sold, Nintendo tripled the output of Sony's PSP (421,000). While those numbers weren't nearly that high through most of 2008, the general order -- Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony -- held strong throughout.

But this was hardly a banner year for Nintendo in terms of software. The biggest games -- Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii and of course Wii Fit -- came relatively early in the year, and their biggest holiday release, Wii Music, has been labeled something of a dud. Miffed that the company was focusing too heavily on catering to its relatively new mass-market audience, the usually loyal Nintendo fans complained about a lack of core games. Meanwhile, Microsoft and Sony enjoyed a wealth of blockbuster games all year long, including top-sellers Grand Theft Auto IV and Fallout 3. So how did Nintendo compete, much less lead the way?

By finding a new niche, of course. While gamers lament the deluge of cheaply made games (dubbed "shovelware") aimed at capitalizing on the Wii's mainstream popularity, many of those titles speak to their broad audience and support the company's new directive. Nintendo knows on which side its bread is currently being buttered, and while Microsoft and Sony battle for the hearts and minds of the core gamers, Nintendo is content getting their moms to play, too. And their moms often have a lot more money.

Microsoft, on the other hand, found itself in second place by keeping its eyes on the prize: core gamers willing to shell out for great downloadable content. The recently released "New Xbox Experience" system update has nearly tripled sales over Xbox Live Arcade, while huge releases like Gears of War 2 and Fable II cemented their status as the go-to console for most gamers.

As the newest kid on the block, Microsoft is less concerned with catching Nintendo than they are with kicking Sony's butt, which is pretty much exactly what they're doing. Take, for instance, the November NPD numbers for Activision's best-selling first-person shooter, Call of Duty: World at War. The 360 version of the game sold an impressive 1.4 million copies -- over twice that of the PS3 version (597,000). It's hard to play catch up when you're getting beaten that badly.

As for Sony, well, they just can't catch a break. The company scored a major coup when Blu-ray officially trounced HD-DVD in the hi-def format war, but few believe the technology will catch on with consumers. Strong sales of big-time exclusive Metal Gear Solid 4 were promising, but the troubled launch of their 'Home' network coupled with relatively weak holiday sales (only Resistance 2 cracked the Top 10 list in November, all the way back at number 9) cramped their style. The once-promising PSP is getting whomped by both the DS and Apple's surging iPhone. Did a witch cast a spell on these guys or what?

Hopefully next year will bode better for the one-time king of the consoles, but for now, they'll have to get used to the view from the back of the pack.[/quote]

[url="http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/console-wars-who-won-08-/1276642"]http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/consol...won-08-/1276642[/url]

[Jamie_B]

All I know is when my Dad who doesnt play video games other than Tiger Woods on his PC, wants a Wii...

[CTBengalsFan]

You have to hand it to Nintendo. They realized they weren't going to compete with Sony and Microsoft in the high-end hardcore gaming consoles so they have tapped into other demographics and done a fantastic job.

[Ben]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='735645' date='Dec 28 2008, 03:58 PM']All I know is when my Dad who doesnt play video games other than Tiger Woods on his PC, wants a Wii...[/quote]

Same. my dad doesnt play any games at all and loves the wii.

[mongo]

Sony had a chance to make up some lost ground... until the economy hit the toilet. They're pretty much fucked.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Ben' post='735985' date='Dec 29 2008, 09:55 AM']Same. my dad doesnt play any games at all and loves the wii.[/quote]


yea I think that's where Nintendo is really making their cash, on new video gamers. My wife never played video games but fell in love with Wii Fit so much after playing it once that we got a wii. I know others in their 40's and 50's who want to get a wii just because the style of games they have available.

[Bengals1181]

any personal reviews of Wii Music in the house?

[Scoutforlife591]

Wow. Wife just got a Wii.

I find it relatively horrible compared to Xbox 360.

It's better for family parties of mixed demographics sure, but for me, it's the suck so far, though I've only tried a limited sampling of the games.

[CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='Scoutforlife591' post='736677' date='Dec 31 2008, 01:05 AM']Wow. Wife just got a Wii.

I find it relatively horrible compared to Xbox 360.

It's better for family parties of mixed demographics sure, but for me, it's the suck so far, though I've only tried a limited sampling of the games.[/quote]

I could never play the thing for more than 10 minutes in a row.

[Cat]

I have a Wii and a PS3... the Wii is a lot of fun for family time, but I have to have the better graphics for my NCAA and Madden.

[VonBlade]

[quote name='Scoutforlife591' post='736677' date='Dec 31 2008, 06:05 AM']It's better for family parties of mixed demographics sure, but for me, it's the suck so far, though I've only tried a limited sampling of the games.[/quote]

Absolutely. We've got a Gamecube (same graphics really) and it's been upstairs for ages gathering dust.

So why on earth would I want a Gamecube with a really shitty control scheme that forces every game to be "woo look at how we can use the motion sensing" rather than actually any good. It's like an entire system built around the Eye-Toy Play principle.

How many great games are there? The same as every other Nintendo system in existence. The Mario (and Marios friends/enemies) stuff, and that's about it. And I don't need yet another variant of Mario 64, Mario Kart and Mario Party in my life.

[mongo]

[quote name='VonBlade' post='737147' date='Jan 2 2009, 12:12 PM']Absolutely. We've got a Gamecube ([b]same graphics really[/b]) and it's been upstairs for ages gathering dust.[/quote]

Perhaps you're confusing style with capabilities. The Wii is much more powerful than the Gamecube.

[quote]So why on earth would I want a Gamecube[/quote]

It's not a Gamecube in any way, shape, or form.

[quote]with a really shitty control scheme that forces every game to be "woo look at how we can use the motion sensing" rather than actually any good.[/quote]

What games have you been playing? There are plenty of good games with terrific, motion-sensing control schemes.

The overwhelming majority of games let people who don't like motion sensing to play the game with "classic" control schemes (perhaps that's the shitty control scheme?).

I'd rather make a bowling motion, pitching motion, or actually aim with a pointer. To me, it sure beats the convoluted 8 button, D-Pad, and 2 control stick schemes of the other 2 systems.

[quote]It's like an entire system built around the Eye-Toy Play principle.[/quote]

A PS3 is built around the principle of the Magnavox Odyssey. To draw any conclusions about the PS3 from what I know about the Odyssey would be absurd.

[quote]How many great games are there? The same as every other Nintendo system in existence. The Mario (and Marios friends/enemies) stuff, and that's about it. And I don't need yet another variant of Mario 64, Mario Kart and Mario Party in my life.[/quote]


Non Nintendo:

Zack and Wiki
World of Goo
LostWinds
No More Heroes
Trauma Center
de Blob
Boom Blox
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
Guitar Hero World Tour
MLB Power Pros
Mega Man 9

probably a bunch more, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head that aren't Nintendo franchises.


...And what exactly is wrong with Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Metroid, Zelda, Smash Brothers, and the other franchises? They have new stories, better graphics, new controls, and new gameplay options. It's not Nintendo's fault that they know how to make great games. If there really is a reason not to include the Nintendo franchises, then exactly how many Maddens, Halos, Call of Duties, and the rest of the "bro" friendly franchises does a guy need?

[VonBlade]

[quote name='mongo' post='737481' date='Jan 4 2009, 04:13 PM']Perhaps you're confusing style with capabilities. The Wii is much more powerful than the Gamecube.[/quote]

No it isn't.

[quote]It's not a Gamecube in any way, shape, or form.[/quote]

Yes it is. May I point you towards the Dolphin emulator. Thanks.

[quote]What games have you been playing? There are plenty of good games with terrific, motion-sensing control schemes.[/quote]

But the point of the games is to show off the motion sensing.

[quote]The overwhelming majority of games let people who don't like motion sensing to play the game with "classic" control schemes (perhaps that's the shitty control scheme?).

I'd rather make a bowling motion, pitching motion, or actually aim with a pointer. To me, it sure beats the convoluted 8 button, D-Pad, and 2 control stick schemes of the other 2 systems.[/quote]

But if you use classic controls then you are nullifying the whole point of the Wii. And if you find the concept of standing in your lounge pretending to throw a ball by waving your arms about preferable to the method that has been proven over time by every controller in existence since the dawn of gaming, well good for you. I don't.

[quote]A PS3 is built around the principle of the Magnavox Odyssey. To draw any conclusions about the PS3 from what I know about the Odyssey would be absurd.[/quote]

*walks slowly away*

[quote]...And what exactly is wrong with Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Metroid, Zelda, Smash Brothers, and the other franchises? They have new stories, better graphics, new controls, and new gameplay options. It's not Nintendo's fault that they know how to make great games. If there really is a reason not to include the Nintendo franchises, then exactly how many Maddens, Halos, Call of Duties, and the rest of the "bro" friendly franchises does a guy need?[/quote]

The problem with them is that we've played them all a dozen times before. Slight tweaks doesn't make it fresh. Mario Kart offers nothing that Mario Kart, Super Mario Kart, Mario Kart 64 and Mario Kart DD doesn't. Not really.

I don't care how many Halos, Call of Duties and all that a guy needs. I need none. Owning a PC and being a gamer for nearly 30 years means the concept of shooting somebody paled about 15 years ago. I certainly don't want to shoot people using a pad whilst being moaned at by illiterate 12 year olds.

So in closing, the graphics are pants, the control scheme is both pants and limiting and the games are slightly upgraded versions of the games that have come before.

You like it, I don't. Just dont' assume it's because I'm some console tard who finds Gears of War or GTA or Halo to be the highest forms of gaming genius. Danke.

[Scoutforlife591]

[quote name='mongo' post='737481' date='Jan 4 2009, 12:13 PM']Perhaps you're confusing style with capabilities. The Wii is much more powerful than the Gamecube.



It's not a Gamecube in any way, shape, or form.



What games have you been playing? There are plenty of good games with terrific, motion-sensing control schemes.

The overwhelming majority of games let people who don't like motion sensing to play the game with "classic" control schemes (perhaps that's the shitty control scheme?).

I'd rather make a bowling motion, pitching motion, or actually aim with a pointer. To me, it sure beats the convoluted 8 button, D-Pad, and 2 control stick schemes of the other 2 systems.



A PS3 is built around the principle of the Magnavox Odyssey. To draw any conclusions about the PS3 from what I know about the Odyssey would be absurd.




Non Nintendo:

Zack and Wiki
World of Goo
LostWinds
No More Heroes
Trauma Center
de Blob
Boom Blox
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
Guitar Hero World Tour
MLB Power Pros
Mega Man 9

probably a bunch more, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head that aren't Nintendo franchises.


...And what exactly is wrong with Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Metroid, Zelda, Smash Brothers, and the other franchises? They have new stories, better graphics, new controls, and new gameplay options. It's not Nintendo's fault that they know how to make great games. If there really is a reason not to include the Nintendo franchises, then exactly how many Maddens, Halos, Call of Duties, and the rest of the "bro" friendly franchises does a guy need?[/quote]

You are more fervent in your defense then when Go is talking about Bratkowski or MB.

Some of those games aren't much different than addictinggames.com

And for every M Galaxy, Kart, and Zelda (of which you can play exactly the same game on GC) there are 5 on comparable games on either X-box and PS3.

Furthermore, PS3 controller basically has all of the features of the Wii (motion sensing). All it lacks is the Duck Hunt feature. Which I'm pretty sure could be solved with EyeToy and some software.

[mongo]

[quote name='VonBlade' post='737496' date='Jan 4 2009, 02:11 PM']No it isn't.



Yes it is. May I point you towards the Dolphin emulator. Thanks.[/quote]

Wii hardware is more powerful than PS2 hardware. Are you suggesting the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2?



[quote]But the point of the games is to show off the motion sensing.[/quote]

The point of the games (other than the Wii Plays and Wii Fits) is to be games. The games simply utilize the controls their presented with.

[quote]But if you use classic controls then you are nullifying the whole point of the Wii. And if you find the concept of standing in your lounge pretending to throw a ball by waving your arms about preferable to the method that has been proven over time by every controller in existence since the dawn of gaming, well good for you. I don't.[/quote]

I don't recall ever having to stand in a lounge chair to play a game on a Wii. And if you don't like controller innovation, you should probably quit gaming. Motion controls make for better gaming.


[quote]*walks slowly away*[/quote]

Where is the problem? The analogy fits. Eye-Toy is a sound concept with lousy implementation. Nintendo's solution is more advanced, and better.

[quote]The problem with them is that we've played them all a dozen times before. Slight tweaks doesn't make it fresh. Mario Kart offers nothing that Mario Kart, Super Mario Kart, Mario Kart 64 and Mario Kart DD doesn't. Not really.[/quote]

Slight tweaks? New controls, better graphics, multiple online game-modes that weren't in previous versions... How is that not really different?

[quote]I don't care how many Halos, Call of Duties and all that a guy needs. I need none. Owning a PC and being a gamer for nearly 30 years means the concept of shooting somebody paled about 15 years ago. I certainly don't want to shoot people using a pad whilst being moaned at by illiterate 12 year olds.[/quote]

We aren't talking about PC gaming. In consoles, every system has franchises that pump out game after game. Singling out Nintendo for this is silly.

[quote]So in closing, the graphics are pants, the control scheme is both pants and limiting and the games are slightly upgraded versions of the games that have come before.

You like it, I don't. Just dont' assume it's because I'm some console tard who finds Gears of War or GTA or Halo to be the highest forms of gaming genius. Danke.[/quote]

The graphics are the 3rd rated of the current generation. I don't disagree. to say their Gamecube level is just ignorant though.

The control scheme isn't "pants." It may not be your cup of tea, but it isn't bad. Tens of millions of people, Microsoft, and Sony would seem to agree that motion controls are in fact the bees knees.

I assume only what you present. You make innacurate claims that I dispute, and point out that all consoles have bread and butter franchises so don't single out Nintendo.

[mongo]

[quote name='Scoutforlife591' post='737498' date='Jan 4 2009, 02:20 PM']You are more fervent in your defense then when Go is talking about Bratkowski or MB.

Some of those games aren't much different than addictinggames.com

And for every M Galaxy, Kart, and Zelda (of which you can play exactly the same game on GC) there are 5 on comparable games on either X-box and PS3.

Furthermore, PS3 controller basically has all of the features of the Wii (motion sensing). All it lacks is the Duck Hunt feature. Which I'm pretty sure could be solved with EyeToy and some software.[/quote]


I simply don't like people saying things that aren't true about something I like. Do you?

Again, You can't play EXACTLY the same game on Gamecube. Better graphics, new level design, different controls, online play... Their are significant changes to these games.

...

I'm not trying to say the Wii is sliced bread. Personally, I think it's fun, interesting, and leap in gaming akin to what the mouse did for computing. I just think it's lame to make big exaggerations and untruthful statements. The Wii is more powerful than a graphing calculator, doesn't demand you do the chicken dance to play a game, actually has good games, and those games are more than just slight upgrades.

[VonBlade]

[quote name='mongo' post='737523' date='Jan 4 2009, 08:55 PM']I don't recall ever having to stand in a lounge chair to play a game on a Wii. And if you don't like controller innovation, you should probably quit gaming. Motion controls make for better gaming.[/quote]

Who mentioned a fucking chair? And motion controls make for worse gaming. Sixaxis does motion controls. Know how many people use it? Exactly. If motion controls were the absolute zenith then Nintendo wouldn't sell a classic controller would they.

[quote]Slight tweaks? New controls, better graphics, multiple online game-modes that weren't in previous versions... How is that not really different?[/quote]

New controls doesn't count because Nintendo force them to use new controls. Better graphics is a given otherwise they wouldn't bother (although "better" is actually "slightly better" at best). Adding online in modern gaming? Wow what a raging bit of innovation. So to recap, slight tweaks.

[quote]We aren't talking about PC gaming. In consoles, every system has franchises that pump out game after game. Singling out Nintendo for this is silly.[/quote]

No but it's pertinant. Every system, apart apparently from Nintendo, also has lots of games that are premiere titles that aren't the usual franchises. The few usual franchises that did make the transition usually have comprehensive changes too. The last major change a Nintendo game had was moving to 3D on the 64. Motion controls notwithstanding.

[quote]The control scheme isn't "pants." It may not be your cup of tea, but it isn't bad. Tens of millions of people, Microsoft, and Sony would seem to agree that motion controls are in fact the bees knees.[/quote]

Ahhhh. So that's why the XBOX and the 360 didn't come with motion controls. And why the PS2 didn't, the PS3 does but hardly any games support them. The few that do support them are titles you'd expect to, like Warhawk, rather than shoe-horning them onto everything (like WiiPES).

[quote]I assume only what you present. You make innacurate claims that I dispute, and point out that all consoles have bread and butter franchises so don't single out Nintendo.[/quote]

You don't assume what I present. I never mentioned Halo or Gears of War or whatever because I dislike them. My claims aren't innaccurate (I didn't claim the Wii is much more powerful than the Gamecube for starters), you just disagree with them.

The Wii IS a revolution in getting non-gamers to start swinging their arms about so that they can move a hopelessly stylised lo-res figure about in a bunch of minigames designed specifically to make you swing your arms about. If that floats your boat, more power to you, you strange person.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Scoutforlife591' post='737498' date='Jan 4 2009, 01:20 PM'][b]You are more fervent in your defense then when Go is talking about Bratkowski or MB.[/b]

Some of those games aren't much different than addictinggames.com

And for every M Galaxy, Kart, and Zelda (of which you can play exactly the same game on GC) there are 5 on comparable games on either X-box and PS3.

Furthermore, PS3 controller basically has all of the features of the Wii (motion sensing). All it lacks is the Duck Hunt feature. Which I'm pretty sure could be solved with EyeToy and some software.[/quote]


so he is using common sense and facts and its confusing everyone?

........seems dead on actually..

[mongo]

[quote name='VonBlade' post='737541' date='Jan 4 2009, 06:10 PM']Who mentioned a fucking chair? And motion controls make for worse gaming. Sixaxis does motion controls. Know how many people use it? Exactly. If motion controls were the absolute zenith then Nintendo wouldn't sell a classic controller would they.[/quote]

Perhaps I misunderstood. You said "standing in your lounge." Either way, no need for the swearing. I've been quite civil.



[quote]New controls doesn't count because Nintendo force them to use new controls. Better graphics is a given otherwise they wouldn't bother (although "better" is actually "slightly better" at best). Adding online in modern gaming? Wow what a raging bit of innovation. So to recap, slight tweaks.[/quote]

1. No one forces you to use the new controls. There are other control schemes. So I consider it quite valid.
2. Pop in one of your Gamecube games, then put in the Wii equivalent. There's a pretty big graphical upgrade.
3. Gamecube games couldn't be played online. I'm not saying it's revolutionary to have online support, but the shift is significant.
4. Wii games, on average, are 4 to 6 times larger than Gamecube games. It's a big leap in what finds it's way onto the screen.

I'm curious as to what you find an acceptable sequal to a game. With your apparant stance, it seems as though nothing should get a new game, ever.



[quote]No but it's pertinant. Every system, apart apparently from Nintendo, also has lots of games that are premiere titles that aren't the usual franchises. The few usual franchises that did make the transition usually have comprehensive changes too. The last major change a Nintendo game had was moving to 3D on the 64. Motion controls notwithstanding.[/quote]

I think I'll need examples from you to understand where you're coming from better. There's way too much subjectivity involved in what makes a game a premiere title, what constitutes comprehensive changes, and what qualifies as a major change.

[quote]Ahhhh. So that's why the XBOX and the 360 didn't come with motion controls. And why the PS2 didn't, the PS3 does but hardly any games support them. The few that do support them are titles you'd expect to, like Warhawk, rather than shoe-horning them onto everything (like WiiPES).[/quote]

PS3 has introduced them, Microsoft is trying to get theirs ready for market, and the whole world is buying Wiis like hotcakes... If your product sells many times better than your competitors, and they're trying to emulate you, wouldn't it seem logical to assume you're doing something right?

[quote]You don't assume what I present. I never mentioned Halo or Gears of War or whatever because I dislike them. My claims aren't innaccurate (I didn't claim the Wii is much more powerful than the Gamecube for starters), you just disagree with them.[/quote]

Let's clear this up. I never said you like those franchises. Those are merely highly successful franchises on other systems. My point was that there's nothing wrong with successful franchises pumping out games, even if they don't have what you might consider big changes.

On a sidenote though: How about if you mention some of the game you do enjoy so I can gear my responses more towards your particular gaming style?

Yes, your claims are innacurate. The whole reason I've responded to your post at all is because you say the Wii is a Gamecube with motion controls. I've been over the specs of both systems, and I can find a shred of evidence to support this. Every measurable I can find points to the Wii being much more powerful than a Gamecube. I think it's time you present data that refutes this claim, because I can't find it.

[quote]The Wii IS a revolution in getting non-gamers to start swinging their arms about so that they can move a hopelessly stylised lo-res figure about in a bunch of minigames designed specifically to make you swing your arms about. If that floats your boat, more power to you, you strange person.[/quote]

The Wii is a system that creates a new way to game. Yes, there are minigames and party games for non-gamers. Yes, There are also non-games like Wii Fit. Indeed, there are bad ports of old games with motion controls tacked on (but a couple of great ports like Resident Evil 4). There are also, as with any system, shovelware games that no one will enjoy. However, there are indeed good games on the Wii too. I don't even have to swing my arms about, move a hopelessly stylized figure, or play minigames specifically designed to make me swing anything I don't want to swing...

........

Some of your last post felt pretty nasty. If you'd like to argue your stance in a civil manner, I'm all for continuing. If you're more interested in getting personal, I think I'll bow out.

I believe, and can post data to support my position, that the Wii is much more powerful than a Gamecube. I can also post data to support the position that people like motion controls (perhaps not the controls used in every game, because lots of games have bad controls regardless of the input device). With more power, and an innovative control scheme, I believe sequals to current franchises are legit. I also, in my first post, pointed to many non-Nintendo games that are pretty darn good.

[VonBlade]

[quote name='mongo' post='737688' date='Jan 5 2009, 01:09 PM']Perhaps I misunderstood. You said "standing in your lounge." Either way, no need for the swearing. I've been quite civil.[/quote]

I just swear a lot, it's nothing personal

[quote]I'm curious as to what you find an acceptable sequal to a game. With your apparant stance, it seems as though nothing should get a new game, ever.[/quote]

Hmmm. Burnout Paradise. Ridge Racer 7. Civilisation IV. Far Cry 2. Half Life 2. A depressing amount of racing/shooting games there, but nonetheless some examples of worthwhile sequels. Civ IV being the weakest example.

[quote]I think I'll need examples from you to understand where you're coming from better. There's way too much subjectivity involved in what makes a game a premiere title, what constitutes comprehensive changes, and what qualifies as a major change.[/quote]

Premiere titles. Those that sell systems really. So whilst I really enjoy Test Drive Unlimited, nobody brought a 360 to play it. Forza 2 they did. Gears of War they did. So for the Wii they'd be Mario Galaxy etc. Forza 2 is actually the perfect example of a bad sequel. It's got less content than the first one, just shinier graphics. And the graphics aren't as shiny as they could or should be.

[quote]and the whole world is buying Wiis like hotcakes... If your product sells many times better than your competitors...doing something right[/quote]

A little selective quoting there, but basically the Wii is the cheapest, and the Nintendo brand carries an insane amount of clout. Those of us who grew up with a NES will buy one because we know how great they can be. Those on a tighter budget buy one because they can afford it. Those who know nothing about games but want to try buy them because they are easy to use. Those who know nothing and buy them for Little Johnny buy them because Nintendo doesn't do the blood and guts style games so they are family friendly.

[quote]On a sidenote though: How about if you mention some of the game you do enjoy so I can gear my responses more towards your particular gaming style?[/quote]

Yikes. We could be here forever. I've been gaming since gaming existed. However a few of my 'games I'm playing at the moment' would be The Witcher, Far Cry 2, Lego Batman, Gran Turismo 5P, Guilty Gear X2#R, R-Type, World of Goo and Monkey Island 2. But this list varies massively as each week passes. The most perfect game I've played recently is probably Company of Heroes : Opposing Fronts. Amazing graphics, outstanding AI, brilliant sounds, loads of maps, moddable, great interface. Stupendous. The Witcher is close though.

[quote]Some of your last post felt pretty nasty. If you'd like to argue your stance in a civil manner, I'm all for continuing. If you're more interested in getting personal, I think I'll bow out.[/quote]

Not intentionally nasty at all (see sig). I tend to get a little self-righteous and rant a lot. No offense meant at all.

As for the whole "how powerful it is" thing the best defense I can offer is this. The Dolphin emulator emulates both the Gamecube and the Wii, from the same bunch of code. Which lends one to believe that there isn't a quantum leap forwards. Certainly not one that justifies purchasing a whole new console over just adding motion controls to the Cube.

Here is an article also illustrating my point (emphasis added) :
[quote]Of note, "Broadway, the Wii's CPU, is a derivative of the PowerPC 750 CL clocked at 729Mhz," and that the "Hollywood" GPU has "no notable increases in programmability" over the Gamecube's "Flipper" GPU. The end result? "The Wii has the processing power of one-and-a-half GameCubes with [b]no noteworthy increases in functionality[/b]."

[url="http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/09/24/gamecube-1-5-the-numbers-behind-the-wiis-technology"]Main Article[/url]

[url="http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/09/24/is-wii-really-gamecube-one-point-five-yes-says-beyond3d.aspx"]The more fullsome article they quote[/url].[/quote]

So hopefully that clears up where I'm coming from a little. Please note that my original assertion about the Wiis capabilities comes from an amalgam of articles and sources I've read in the past. However for the purposes of giving a POV that defended my knowledge I've had to use Google to find you one you can click.

[i]Edit to fix tags[/i]

[mongo]

School's back, so my time is limited again. However, a few things jump out at me.

1) The article linked suggests the Wii is at least a Gamecube and a half. Your claim has been that they are the same.

2) The "no noteworthy increase in functionality" refers solely to the GPU, and not the system as a whole. The GPU offers increases in performance.

3) I don't know anything about emulators, but it would seem to me Dolphin's ability (sort of) to play Wii and GC games is more about them using the...OS and programming language than anything else.

4) Dolphin seems to emulate GC much better than Wii. That would suggest to me some important differences.

I've never claimed the Wii is a quantum leap from the Gamecube, just that you're wrong in saying the Wii is a Gamecube. I think what you've posted supports my argument.