On this date: April 17, 1999

[VonBlade]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='764686' date='Apr 17 2009, 04:42 PM']I don't give a shit who is on the board - if a team wants to give me their whole draft this year for my [s]6th[/s] [b]first-round[/b] pick, where do I sign?[/quote]

Fixt.

[BengalsRule85]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='764787' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:56 PM']So maybe he thought he was finding a nut with Akili.

You have the luxury of having access to the results.
Back in 1999, Mike Brown didn't.

And Mike has made plenty of successful picks.
But using your logic, he just had more chances to screw up.
Not add depth and gain a cumulative level of talent.

Really, you can't have it both ways.[/quote]


[quote name='Lucid' post='764794' date='Apr 17 2009, 01:07 PM']Something tells me that it's wasn't only MB and and Ditka who thought Akili was the real deal.. And I'm sure that even those [i]professional[/i] football minds who disagreed with that assessment wouldn't use the word "incompetent" when referring to those who felt that way..

So when the label "incompetent" describing that opinion comes from some internet fanboy on a message board, it makes them look like a total ass.


My 2¢[/quote]



I'm not commenting on the Akili pick... No-one had any idea how that could play out. I'm just saying... A whole teams draft for one player seems like a no-brainer to me. Even if there were needs to be addressed 8-9 picks opens up so many trade possibilities... I just don't think Mike Brown and his staff has the imagination to create situations where the Bengals can deal with other teams in a trade.

[quote name='oldschooler' post='764787' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:56 PM']And Mike has made plenty of successful picks.
But using your logic, he just had more chances to screw up.
Not add depth and gain a cumulative level of talent.

Really, you can't have it both ways.[/quote]

LOL... And using your logic... Seeing how he has made some good picks; he would have more chances to make good picks... It works both ways. I'm just saying... I can argue in circles just like you...

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='BengalsRule85' post='764855' date='Apr 17 2009, 06:35 PM']I'm not commenting on the Akili pick... No-one had any idea how that could play out. I'm just saying... A whole teams draft for one player seems like a no-brainer to me. Even if there were needs to be addressed 8-9 picks opens up so many trade possibilities... I just don't think Mike Brown and his staff has the imagination to create situations where the Bengals can deal with other teams in a trade.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm not touching the whole draft vs one player thing. I think with these kind of extreme scenarios it's strictly boom or bust. If you are right, you are a genius, wrong and you're a clown.

[BengalsRule85]

Let me correct your statement...

[quote name='Lucid' post='764858' date='Apr 17 2009, 03:43 PM']Yeah, I'm not touching the whole draft vs one player thing. I think with these kind of extreme scenarios it's strictly boom or bust. If you are right, you are a genius, wrong and you're a [s]clown[/s] Brown.[/quote]

[oldschooler]

[quote name='BengalsRule85' post='764855' date='Apr 17 2009, 05:35 PM']I'm not commenting on the Akili pick... No-one had any idea how that could play out. I'm just saying... A whole teams draft for one player seems like a no-brainer to me. Even if there were needs to be addressed 8-9 picks opens up so many trade possibilities... I just don't think Mike Brown and his staff has the imagination to create situations where the Bengals can deal with other teams in a trade.[/quote]

3 other teams passed on that same deal. The Browns, Eagles and Colts.
The team that did take the deal, did relatively nothing with it.


[quote name='BengalsRule85' post='764855' date='Apr 17 2009, 05:35 PM']LOL... And using your logic... Seeing how he has made some good picks; he would have more chances to make good picks... It works both ways. I'm just saying... I can argue in circles just like you...[/quote]



But I am not whining about it still, 10 years after the fact.

So keep chasing your tail.

[BengalsRule85]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='764865' date='Apr 17 2009, 04:08 PM']But I am not whining about it still, 10 years after the fact.

So keep chasing your tail.[/quote]

Yes... I'm still not happy. Maybe its time for people to start whining more. 20 years of cellar production from the team I love will do that... Not only that... I believe the draft in question could have been a point to turn it around. Then again... Like you said. No other teams did anything with those picks so its a given MB would only put his mark on them. Seriously... All you guys seem to defend the operation of this franchise which oddly started sucking when the great Paul Brown died and the current owner took over. 20 years is a long time to produce constant failure and the owner is only one constant.

The parity in the draft was supposed to help poor preforming teams through drafting good talent. Seeing how this team builds by the draft we sure as fuck better do a good job drafting then.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='BengalsRule85' post='764947' date='Apr 17 2009, 08:13 PM']Yes... I'm still not happy. Maybe its time for people to start whining more. 20 years of cellar production from the team I love will do that... Not only that... I believe the draft in question could have been a point to turn it around. Then again... Like you said. No other teams did anything with those picks so its a given MB would only put his mark on them. Seriously... All you guys seem to defend the operation of this franchise which oddly started sucking when the great Paul Brown died and the current owner took over. 20 years is a long time to produce constant failure and the owner is only one constant.[/quote]


[img]http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3749/bigheadedtinydogchasing.gif[/img]


Sorry, couldn't resist.



And you think it is time for some people to "start" whining more?
Where the hell have you been? That has been going on for
about 15 years now.

[bengaled]

[quote name='BengalsRule85' post='764947' date='Apr 17 2009, 09:13 PM']Yes... I'm still not happy. Maybe its time for people to start whining more. 20 years of cellar production from the team I love will do that... Not only that... I believe the draft in question could have been a point to turn it around. Then again... Like you said. No other teams did anything with those picks so its a given MB would only put his mark on them. Seriously... All you guys seem to defend the operation of this franchise which oddly started sucking when the great Paul Brown died and the current owner took over. 20 years is a long time to produce constant failure and the owner is only one constant.

The parity in the draft was supposed to help poor preforming teams through drafting good talent. Seeing how this team builds by the draft we sure as fuck better do a good job drafting then.[/quote]

that's what goes on here. crusades are useless and a waste of time, no matter their validity. you have 3 options...either join in with the enablers, learn to shut the BS out, or....well, surely you can figure out the third option. one thing i can guarantee you... the status quo will not change.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='bengaled' post='764955' date='Apr 17 2009, 08:29 PM']that's what goes on here. crusades are useless and a waste of time, no matter their validity. you have 3 options...either join in with the enablers, learn to shut the BS out, or....well, surely you can figure out the third option. one thing i can guarantee you... the status quo will not change.[/quote]


:rofl: @ crusades

:rofl: @ enablers



Sorry.

I thought we were talking about an event that happened 10 years ago?

I didn't know it was cause for a crusade now. Or that because some people
don't feel like victims, but rather fans, that that is a bad thing.

Like I said, sorry to interrupt. Just trying to be a voice of reason
amongst all the teeth gnashing and moaning. Carry on.
Just don't repond to me and I won't say anything else. OK?

[bubba]

[quote name='BengalRep85-9' post='764808' date='Apr 17 2009, 04:38 PM']Looking back this was possibly, if not probably, the single worst decision in franchise history[/quote]
I'd say the worst no doubt

[scharm]

[quote]You have to be kidding... Do you know how often a team is willing to give up 8-9 picks for one draft pick? Its just doesn't happen and we missed it.[/quote]

Nope. Not at all. Look at how getting Carson Palmer changed this franchise.

The value of those picks are not equal to finding a true franchise QB.

The failure in that transaction or non transaction is the mis evaluation of the guy they chose.

[scharm]

[quote name='Inigo Montoya' post='764760' date='Apr 17 2009, 03:21 PM']Bullshit. There were red flags out the wazoo on Akili and the pick should never have been made by a competent person.[/quote]

Still Hindsight.

Carson Palmer wasn't seen as an absolute lock the day he was drafted. You will not find anyone admitting that today.

You land a Carson Palmer in place of those picks and it will always be worth it. They selected the wrong guy at that time.

[scharm]

[quote]Yeah, I'm not touching the whole draft vs one player thing. I think with these kind of extreme scenarios it's strictly boom or bust. If you are right, you are a genius, wrong and you're a clown.[/quote]

Exactly.

IMO, I'm going with a franchise Qb over more draft picks.

[BengalsRule85]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='764958' date='Apr 17 2009, 06:34 PM']:rofl: @ crusades

:rofl: @ enablers



Sorry.

I thought we were talking about an event that happened 10 years ago?

I didn't know it was cause for a crusade now. Or that because some people
don't feel like victims, but rather fans, that that is a bad thing.

Like I said, sorry to interrupt. Just trying to be a voice of reason
amongst all the teeth gnashing and moaning. Carry on.
Just don't repond to me and I won't say anything else. OK?[/quote]

I like responding to you guys... Thats why this is a forum not a blog. While I think some of you would rather this be a blog. Your view don't bother me... There are just some things about this fansbase (which I'm a part of) that I don't understand. Its just like anything in life. If the product sucks why pay for it? Sports is the only thing in life that bends those rules I guess. Crusades and protests wont help because the seats and jerseys will still sell. The death of Mike Brown is the only thing that will save this franchise. I just see you guys absently excusing some the moves of this team (Akili draft) yet I never hear you even wonder why it sucks so bad. I want it to be successful and the status quo just aint cuttin it. Feel free to respond. I'm about responded out though. Nothing I say will change your opinions anyway.

[BengalsRule85]

[quote name='scharm' post='764981' date='Apr 17 2009, 07:22 PM']Nope. Not at all. Look at how getting Carson Palmer changed this franchise.[/quote]


Haha... Yeah... Our success with Palmer has been legendary... Teams are quaking in their boots in having to face us...

[sparky151]

Turning down the offer from New Orleans was probably the worst decision in franchise history. Remember that Brown overruled Coslet his head coach and the guy who would be coaching the player or players selected. Smith was taken 3rd, then Indy took Edgerrin James with the 4th pick before NO swung a deal with the Redskins to get Ricky Williams. The Redskins then traded up from 12th with Chicago to 7th and took Champ Bailey. Presumably Brown could have made the same trades as Casserly did for the Skins, though that might be giving Brown too much credit. Champ Bailey is probably going to the Hall of Fame. The worst part is that Akili might very well have still been on the board at pick 7. We might have still gotten Akili but also had other picks in addition.

[MULLY]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='764747' date='Apr 18 2009, 04:07 AM']Oh yeah Ben, remind me to make threads next year on January 7th and 8th.
So we can reminisce about the Buckeyes and their National Championship games.

And I can post a thread here on January 8th too, and we can all re-live Carson
being Von Kneecapped.

OK?[/quote]


Oooh, January 8th, we can all sit and reminisce Elvis being born too.
MULLY

[oldschooler]

[quote name='BengalsRule85' post='764999' date='Apr 17 2009, 10:23 PM']I like responding to you guys... Thats why this is a forum not a blog. While I think some of you would rather this be a blog.[/quote]

You do realize that people can respond to posts in blogs, don't you?
Obviously not.

And if I wanted to start a blog, I would. I don't though.

[quote]Your view don't bother me... There are just some things about this fansbase (which I'm a part of) that I don't understand. Its just like anything in life. If the product sucks why pay for it? Sports is the only thing in life that bends those rules I guess.

Crusades and protests wont help because the seats and jerseys will still sell. The death of Mike Brown is the only thing that will save this franchise.[/quote]


And there are some fans I don't understand either.
If you feel like this team sucks, and only death will
give you a chance of rooting for a winner, than why
act like a victim, instead of a fan? You have a choice.
Most victims don't.


[quote]I just see you guys absently excusing some the moves of this team (Akili draft) yet I never hear you even wonder why it sucks so bad. I want it to be successful and the status quo just aint cuttin it. Feel free to respond. I'm about responded out though. Nothing I say will change your opinions anyway. [/quote]

And obviously nothing I say will change your opinion either.
But I'll give it a try anyway.

I am not going to excuse the 90's. But I see reasons for why it happened.
Like Mike Brown trying to do things the way his Father taught him to
do it. And right when he took over, the way he was taught was outdated.
I really don't think things would have been much different with Paul Brown
running things. He didn't believe in pampering warriors. He thought Free Agency
was going to ruin the game. He thought you had to have a Franchise QB, He thought
you built your team through the draft, and wouldn't have retained or signed a lot of FAs.
Mike Brown has had 5 different Head Coaches, and 5 different QBs from
1991-present. Yet, I hear how "loyal" he is to some coaches. Mike Brown never traded
down to keep from paying top 5 draft picks. Matter of a fact, he traded up to the
#1 overall pick once. Yet, I hear how cheap he is. I know he cut corners on some
things. But again, that was how his Father did things too.

Anyway, since 2003, Mike Brown changed. The record alone from 1991-2002
from 2003-present suggests as much. So I don't see a "status quo". I see a
team that tried to rebuild a Franchise and install a winning culture, be hampered
by injuries and off the field shit. As far as the off the field shit, I blame the players
for not seizing the opportunities that they were given, more than I blame the man
that gave them the opportunities. The injuries need to be fixed as much as possible
with a quickness though.

Obviously I am a fan of the Bengals. And I see things differently than what I saw
through the 90's. I see reasons to be optimistic. I don't feel like a victim. I don't
have to have this team win to make me feel like my being a fan is validated.
Sure, rooting for a winner is more fun. But it isn't a requirement for me to be
a fan. A lot of people disagree. That's fine. But that is my opinion and feelings.

I just try to offer a different view than those that blame the owner for everything.
Is he the best owner? Of course not. But he isn't the worst either. And I see positve
changes in the Franchise. And I try and be a different view to some that act like victims,
blame Mike Brown for everything and see no reason for hope while he is alive.

Really though, like I said, I know I won't change many opinions. But this being a
forum, and not a blog, I can offer my differing opinion. Instead of just reading others opinions.