JBandJoeyV Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Was the deal with him? I dont think hes been bad in blocking or anything but he seems to be good for at least one penalty a game. I dont know if its trying to make up for the rest of the oline or him being out of position or what, but he has had the whistle blown on him a lot this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 todays was some BS... .but he will take a penalty over a hit on palmer every time.. probably a wise system.. but yea.. i would rather he be inside.. we need a star LT..so we can have our star LG back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 seemed like he got screwed by Coles on that one play he was called for holding. Whit was pushing the guy to the sideline, and Coles decided to try to run around right by the defender which made Whit hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinylumpsucker Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 I think he is doing quite well. He has gone against a murderers row of rushers these first few games and has done a nice job, considering he is still re-acclimating to the position and coming off an injury that cost him much of last season. As he gets comfortable, the penalties will clear up. He is no Walter Jones, but I see him as a very good LT who could make a run at the occasional PB. IMO he is playing at least as well as young top picks in Thomas and Long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsOwn Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 He's gotta be among the league leaders in penalties...I like him, but it is a bit ridiculous. We keep having drive killing penalties, and he is one of the leading culprits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Seriously though....what was with the tripping call. It was complete bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwing Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 I'm with Go on this one. We need a LT. Coaches at every level will tell you that false starts and holding calls are due to being out matched or you are struggling to gain position. Whit is a quality NFL player. He just isn't a full time NFL LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='GoBengals' date='18 October 2009 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1255920717' post='818548'] todays was some BS... .but he will take a penalty over a hit on palmer every time.. probably a wise system.. but yea.. i would rather he be inside.. we need a star LT..so we can have our star LG back. [/quote] Try Collins at LT since he's left handed. Move Roland into RT full time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkansas Bengal Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='cwing' date='19 October 2009 - 11:25 AM' timestamp='1255969530' post='818701'] I'm with Go on this one. We need a LT. Coaches at every level will tell you that false starts and holding calls are due to being out matched or you are struggling to gain position. Whit is a quality NFL player. He just isn't a full time NFL LT. [/quote] Damn, didn't we get a Left Tackle this year with the number 6 pick in the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='Arkansas Bengal' date='19 October 2009 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1255969729' post='818704'] Damn, didn't we get a Left Tackle this year with the number 6 pick in the draft? [/quote] It doesn't matter. He's still not ready to start a game and moving AC to LT could be a quick fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Keep this in mind though. If Whit gets moved back to guard then we'll lose him when his contract runs out. Mike Brown will not pay big bucks for a guard. Trade Whitworth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwing Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='Arkansas Bengal' date='19 October 2009 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1255969729' post='818704'] Damn, didn't we get a Left Tackle this year with the number 6 pick in the draft? [/quote] Didn't the Bengals say from the git go that they wanted him at RT? Collins skill set appears to be more along the line LT. Whit's skill set appears to be olong the line of a G or maybe even a RT. Smith may be able to do either at some point but more likely to play RT this season than LT as it is an easier position to learn. Smith earning the job ------ and yes, he should be made to earn th job, provides options with Roland, Collins and Whit. I will be surprised if the 2010 lineup is not something like this; Collins, Whit, Cook, Roland, Smith. Backups will be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwing Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='Jeb' date='19 October 2009 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1255970155' post='818712'] Keep this in mind though. If Whit gets moved back to guard then we'll lose him when his contract runs out. Mike Brown will not pay big bucks for a guard. [/quote] Why? I am guessing you believe this due to the handling of Steinbach. I do not believe the handling of Steinbach will have any bearing as they simply were not as high on Steinbach as the fans were. Steinbach was a smaller sized pulling guard that struggled at the point of attack. Steinbach could play LT and center in a pinch but was never going to be more than a full time LG on this team as the guy on the left side is the one that is most likely to pull. Brown had already re-signed Levi, Willie and Bobby Willams (which is a guard) big money deals and you cannot sign everyone to big money. Whit will never be a Pro Bowl LT. However, he can provide value in that spot and he could possibly be converted to RG or even a RT as he appears to have that type of skill set. And besides that, Brown paid big bucks to Bobby Willams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='Jeb' date='19 October 2009 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1255970155' post='818712'] Keep this in mind though. If Whit gets moved back to guard then we'll lose him when his contract runs out. Mike Brown will not pay big bucks for a guard. Trade Whitworth? [/quote] They just re-signed Whit didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='19 October 2009 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1255973889' post='818739'] They just re-signed Whit didn't they? [/quote] You would be correct. So Mike Brown did pay a guard big money. (Here comes the they knew they were going to switch him to LT). In case that does come up.. No they didn't. Jason Smith falls to us..do you think we move him? Probably not. Andre's move has to be more related to the fact that he is a big time run blocker and is very similar to what Willie Anderson was. The Bengals would love to have another Willie without the psychotic attitude. Whit's move must of been because they didn't think AC could do LT, which I think he can. Mathis seems to be doing well though and you have Livings right below him. What to do there? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwing Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='JC' date='19 October 2009 - 02:43 PM' timestamp='1255974207' post='818742'] Whit's move must of been because they didn't think AC could do LT, which I think he can. Mathis seems to be doing well though and you have Livings right below him. What to do there? Who knows. [/quote] Here is a slightly different take. They drafted a tackle yet they offered him below market value. I am not talking about 2009 market value, they offered him below 2008 market value. They knew there would be a holdout. At what the market was bringing there was no way there would not be a holdout. When the oline was announced JT, a guy that went against these guys in practice every day ---- was shocked that Collins was not named the LT. He predicted this was a move that likely meant teh Bengals were preparing for a Smith holdout and this was before any of us knew of the lowball offer. Jt also spoke of this move appearing to provide the team leverage against Smith. Therefore, the coaching staff felt that the combo of; Whit, Livings, Cook, Williams, Collins was better than Collins, Whit, Cook, Williams, Roland/Kooster/etc... as the staff had little belief Smith would be signed on time to provide much benefit. In the end, Mike Brown got his guy at the price he wanted. However, the player, the coaches and most of all ----- the fans are now paying the price for this offseason move. That being a team that is havng consistently issues and is filled with mistakes on offense. I have enjoyed the wins and I hope they get the mistakes corrected. However, when your guys are just a little less talented than the other guys because your guys are not playing to their strenghts ------ this leads to holding/motion penalites, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='JC' date='19 October 2009 - 02:43 PM' timestamp='1255974207' post='818742'] You would be correct. So Mike Brown did pay a guard big money. (Here comes the they knew they were going to switch him to LT). In case that does come up.. No they didn't. Jason Smith falls to us..do you think we move him? Probably not. Andre's move has to be more related to the fact that he is a big time run blocker and is very similar to what Willie Anderson was. The Bengals would love to have another Willie without the psychotic attitude. Whit's move must of been because they didn't think AC could do LT, which I think he can. Mathis seems to be doing well though and you have Livings right below him. What to do there? Who knows. [/quote] That wasn't big money and neither was the Bobbie contract. Neither were fat paydays but both were fair. It certainly wasn't Stacey Andrews type of money and both of our players are starters not bench warmers (like Stacey). There are plenty of teams in need of quality linemen and teams that will pay for guards. Whitworth's next contract is for playing LT. He's automatically worth more now. The price goes up next contract. Till then we get to use his services at the current price. Also, he's good trade bait at the current contract so, 1) Do we need him? 2) What trade would you make for him? 3) Would you fight to keep him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='Jeb' date='19 October 2009 - 04:06 PM' timestamp='1255979202' post='818781'] That wasn't big money and neither was the Bobbie contract. Neither were fat paydays but both were fair. It certainly wasn't Stacey Andrews type of money and both of our players are starters not bench warmers (like Stacey). There are plenty of teams in need of quality linemen and teams that will pay for guards. Whitworth's next contract is for playing LT. He's automatically worth more now. The price goes up next contract. Till then we get to use his services at the current price. Also, he's good trade bait at the current contract so, 1) Do we need him? 2) What trade would you make for him? 3) Would you fight to keep him? [/quote] 4 years, 30 million extension isn't a lot? He's making damn near 7 million a year. Stacy Andrews signed a 7 year 49 million dollar contract. 7 million a year. Mike Brown gave Whit a fat payday so you can't say he won't pay a guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='Jeb' date='19 October 2009 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1255970155' post='818712'] Keep this in mind though. If Whit gets moved back to guard then we'll lose him when his contract runs out. Mike Brown will not pay big bucks for a guard. Trade Whitworth? [/quote] His contract isn't up forever. Anyway, I think this year the thing to do is stick with what we have and just plug Andre Smith in at RT. Next season, I would either give Collins a shot at LT or draft a LT and move Whitworth inside to G. I'm just not sure if he is quick enough to be consistently good at LT. Not that he's bad, he's just sort of okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='JC' date='19 October 2009 - 04:12 PM' timestamp='1255979561' post='818784'] 4 years, 30 million extension isn't a lot? He's making damn near 7 million a year. Stacy Andrews signed a 7 year 49 million dollar contract. 7 million a year. Mike Brown gave Whit a fat payday so you can't say he won't pay a guard. [/quote] OK, ...I give up, ...you win, ...its a fat payday. Now, ...do you or don't you want him at LT????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='JC' date='19 October 2009 - 04:12 PM' timestamp='1255979561' post='818784'] 4 years, 30 million extension isn't a lot? He's making damn near 7 million a year. Stacy Andrews signed a 7 year 49 million dollar contract. 7 million a year. Mike Brown gave Whit a fat payday so you can't say he won't pay a guard. [/quote] For what it's worth, and I know we are splitting hairs here a bit, it wasn't just simply 4 years and 30 million. Andrew was set to make less than 1 million dollars this year. The Bengals gave him a new contract that is basically 5 years, 31 million (he is signed through 2013). So he is really making about 6 million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwing Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 I do not want him at LT. I would rather him be on the right side as he also is not a very good pulling guard. He is a mauler and needs to be on the right. I think he would be far better off replacing Williams at RG next season. Bobby is 34 and in the last yr of his deal. Collins -- Roland/Mathis/Livings/Other -- Cook -- Whit -- Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='happyrid' date='19 October 2009 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1255979591' post='818787'] His contract isn't up forever. Anyway, I think this year the thing to do is stick with what we have and just plug Andre Smith in at RT. Next season, I would either give Collins a shot at LT or draft a LT and move Whitworth inside to G. I'm just not sure if he is quick enough to be consistently good at LT. Not that he's bad, he's just sort of okay. [/quote] I agree mostly accept I'd like to see Whit play at RT for a while. I really believe he could be good at that spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='cwing' date='19 October 2009 - 04:20 PM' timestamp='1255980034' post='818791'] I do not want him at LT. I would rather him be on the right side as he also is not a very good pulling guard. He is a mauler and needs to be on the right. I think he would be far better off replacing Williams at RG next season. Bobby is 34 and in the last yr of his deal. Collins -- Roland/Mathis/Livings/Other -- Cook -- Whit -- Smith [/quote] so, you'd like to see us keep him but move him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 [quote name='Jeb' date='19 October 2009 - 04:22 PM' timestamp='1255980125' post='818792'] I agree mostly accept I'd like to see Whit play at RT for a while. I really believe he could be good at that spot. [/quote] So you want Andre at LT? I worry about his pass blocking there. I was thinking: LT-Collins (or draft pick) LG-Whitworth C-Cook RG-Williams(or draft pick or Mathis or Livings) RT-Andre Smith I just think we get more value out of Andre Smith on the right side where he can kill people in the run game. His potential mediocrity as a pass blocker is way less of an issue on the right side. Edited to add that I like cwing's lineup a lot too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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