Jamie_B Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6wvEYDBmWU[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAYCAT Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 No problem taking out someone who wants to harm us. Same with drug dealers....make them disapear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote name='STRAYCAT' date='02 March 2010 - 07:34 PM' timestamp='1267576480' post='866506'] No problem taking out someone who wants to harm us. Same with drug dealers....make them disapear. [/quote] [img]http://www.d3scene.com/forum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Due process is for pussies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='02 March 2010 - 08:16 PM' timestamp='1267582609' post='866535'] [img]http://www.d3scene.com/forum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif[/img] [/quote] Heil Hilter? Seriously though, I see this as self defense. You rather wait until after we are attacked and then put him on trial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote name='oldschooler' date='03 March 2010 - 04:01 PM' timestamp='1267650076' post='866676'] Heil Hilter? Seriously though, I see this as self defense. You rather wait until after we are attacked and then put him on trial? [/quote] I would rather us capture them and put them on trial if at all possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='03 March 2010 - 03:25 PM' timestamp='1267651514' post='866682'] I would rather us capture them and put them on trial if at all possible. [/quote] Bullets are cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote name='oldschooler' date='03 March 2010 - 04:26 PM' timestamp='1267651619' post='866684'] Bullets are cheaper. [/quote] wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='03 March 2010 - 03:34 PM' timestamp='1267652082' post='866688'] wow [/quote] You didn't know that? With the economy as it is. Go the cheap route. I don't look at people that want to kill as many innocent American people as possible like I look at some regular criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote name='oldschooler' date='03 March 2010 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1267652367' post='866689'] You didn't know that? With the economy as it is. Go the cheap route. I don't look at people that want to kill as many innocent American people as possible like I look at some regular criminal. [/quote] We don't need no stinking constitution anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='03 March 2010 - 03:44 PM' timestamp='1267652670' post='866692'] We don't need no stinking constitution anyway. [/quote] Due process is referred to as "law of the land" and "legal judgment of peers". But that is applied to people that are apprehended. Some "criminals are killed without being apprehended. And sometimes it is nearly impossible to apprehend a "criminal" to bring them to trial. The "law of the land" basically says, that if a motherfucker is plotting an attack to kill as many innocent Americans as he can, then assassinate said motherfucker. And I don't have a problem with that. I guess you think we shouldn't be assassinating terrorist that aren't Amercian citizens too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Jamie, those people that you want to give rights to wouldn't think twice about cutting your fucking head off and killing everyone you know. Sorry, I say fuck anyone that wants to harm the USA. Shooting seems to civil to me though. I'd rather they be tortured until they eventually die. How you can see footage of 9/11 and the aftermath and still have sympathy for these fuckers is beyond me. Again, you'd be gone in a heartbeat if they got a hold of you. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 [quote name='oldschooler' date='04 March 2010 - 06:57 AM' timestamp='1267653479' post='866697'] Due process is referred to as "law of the land" and "legal judgment of peers". But that is applied to people that are apprehended. Some "criminals are killed without being apprehended. And sometimes it is nearly impossible to apprehend a "criminal" to bring them to trial. The "law of the land" basically says, that if a motherfucker is plotting an attack to kill as many innocent Americans as he can, then assassinate said motherfucker. And I don't have a problem with that. I guess you think we shouldn't be assassinating terrorist that aren't Amercian citizens too? [/quote] Fucking hell, I would have more sympathy for non-American terrorists than an American one. Turning on your own people? That's so wrong on so many levels. But again, fuck anyone that wants to hurt the USA and its people! MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Jamie you are probably an anti torture guy too right? Go read a Vince Flynn Mitch Rapp book...although you watch 24 so i guess thats not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 [quote name='oldschooler' date='03 March 2010 - 04:57 PM' timestamp='1267653479' post='866697'] Due process is referred to as "law of the land" and "legal judgment of peers". But that is applied to people that are apprehended. Some "criminals are killed without being apprehended. And sometimes it is nearly impossible to apprehend a "criminal" to bring them to trial. The "law of the land" basically says, that if a motherfucker is plotting an attack to kill as many innocent Americans as he can, then assassinate said motherfucker. And I don't have a problem with that. I guess you think we shouldn't be assassinating terrorist that aren't Amercian citizens too? [/quote] And if they get it wrong? I mean aren't you one that believes that we went to war on "bad intelligence"? But of course its not possible to have bad intelligence in these cases. Also maybe you missed the part of the video where they said they have let a number of guys go because they couldnt show any evidence of wrong doing. [quote name='Fulcher_33' date='03 March 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1267664381' post='866742'] Jamie, those people that you want to give rights to wouldn't think twice about cutting your fucking head off and killing everyone you know. Sorry, I say fuck anyone that wants to harm the USA. Shooting seems to civil to me though. I'd rather they be tortured until they eventually die. How you can see footage of 9/11 and the aftermath and still have sympathy for these fuckers is beyond me. Again, you'd be gone in a heartbeat if they got a hold of you. MULLY [/quote] First off lets get one thing clear, my father was on the first response team at the pentagon to help pull people out that day, so my experience is much different than most who simply watched it on tv. This isnt about sympathy, its about rule of law and defending the constitution. [quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='03 March 2010 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1267665958' post='866747'] Jamie you are probably an anti torture guy too right? Go read a Vince Flynn Mitch Rapp book...although you watch 24 so i guess thats not necessary. [/quote] Very much so. Go read the many many volumes of why it doesnt work from experts in the field, go read the army field manual prohibiting it. 24 is pure entertainment that is not at all based in reality, if that's your thought process, I know its not a well thought out or researched one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='04 March 2010 - 11:45 AM' timestamp='1267670753' post='866754'] First off lets get one thing clear, my father was on the first response team at the pentagon to help pull people out that day, so my experience is much different than most who simply watched it on tv. This isnt about sympathy, its about rule of law and defending the constitution. [/quote] Your father's view may be different, I don't really see how yours would be other than to be able to say that your dad was there. And God bless him for what he did. What rule of law? The person is a terrorist. All rules are out the door. Why do we always have to be the good guys? I say fuck with us, pay the piper. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 [quote name='Fulcher_33' date='03 March 2010 - 09:59 PM' timestamp='1267671568' post='866757'] Your father's view may be different, I don't really see how yours would be other than to be able to say that your dad was there. And God bless him for what he did. What rule of law? The person is a terrorist. All rules are out the door. Why do we always have to be the good guys? I say fuck with us, pay the piper. MULLY [/quote] My view of having to live in fear for the day while he was working that a 2nd plane might hit the pentagon like it did the towers. Most didnt have to worry about that. Mully not everyone that was taken was proven to have any involvement in it, simply saying kill them all under that notion is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Does ascribing to the "better safe than sorry" method of people elimination make us bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='03 March 2010 - 09:45 PM' timestamp='1267670753' post='866754'] Very much so. Go read the many many volumes of why it doesnt work from experts in the field, go read the army field manual prohibiting it. 24 is pure entertainment that is not at all based in reality, if that's your thought process, I know its not a well thought out or researched one. [/quote] The 24 thing was a joke...but seriously if torturing terrorist leads to even one terrorist plot being foiled it is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 And no offense Jamie cause there are a ton like you, but I cant stand the people that think we have to live stictly by the constitution. A document that was written like 200+ years ago. Im sure when they wrote that they were thinking about terrorists trying to kill US citizens. There are a lot of things in the constitution we should live by but we also have to adapt to modern life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 [quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='03 March 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1267674947' post='866771'] The 24 thing was a joke...but seriously if torturing terrorist leads to even one terrorist plot being foiled it is worth it. [/quote] It doesnt work, and it only creates more terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 [quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='03 March 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1267675115' post='866772'] And no offense Jamie cause there are a ton like you, but I cant stand the people that think we have to live stictly by the constitution. A document that was written like 200+ years ago. Im sure when they wrote that they were thinking about terrorists trying to kill US citizens. There are a lot of things in the constitution we should live by but we also have to adapt to modern life. [/quote] [img]http://www.redwinebuzz.com/winesooth/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/joe-george-bush-picture-1-2.jpg[/img] [size="6"]It's just a piece of paper anyway...[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 Im not gonna keep positng in this thread cause its just one of those things where neither person will ever be able to convince the other. But my final thoughts are I dont agree with torture just to torture. But if the people that are in the field that live with this stuff every day truly believe that torturing someone will help them prevent a terrorist attack or help give them information regarding terrorists then I say do whatever it takes. Im sure right after 9/11 you and most the country would say the same thing, but since weve been safe 9 years people start to forget things. Do whatever it takes to prevent another terrorist attack. And about the constitution, there is no way, not 1 single way possible that they could have had any clue what our world would look like 200 years later. We should take the a lot of what it says seriously and to heart, but at the same point things change and we need to adapt. There wasnt even such thing as terrorism back then so there is no way they could have put what they thought about it into the constitution. I guarantee a lot of the guys that wrote the constitution would change a few things if they were around today. Its ridiculous to think that every single thing in there we still need to abide by 100 percent no matter what. Very naive. And if you bring up Geneva convention and all that, well the terrorists dont follow the rules. They dont care about killing innocents and torture, etc so I dont really care to hear about the geneva rights when it comes to terrorists. Thats all I got but god forbid another terrorist attack happened on US soil, you and many others would start changing your beliefs again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted March 4, 2010 Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 [quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='03 March 2010 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1267675115' post='866772'] And no offense Jamie cause there are a ton like you, but I cant stand the people that think we have to live stictly by the constitution. A document that was written like 200+ years ago. Im sure when they wrote that they were thinking about terrorists trying to kill US citizens. There are a lot of things in the constitution we should live by but we also have to adapt to modern life. [/quote] I feel the same way about religious books... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted March 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2010 [quote name='CJandRudiJ' date='03 March 2010 - 11:36 PM' timestamp='1267677407' post='866778'] Im not gonna keep positng in this thread cause its just one of those things where neither person will ever be able to convince the other. But my final thoughts are I dont agree with torture just to torture. But if the people that are in the field that live with this stuff every day truly believe that torturing someone will help them prevent a terrorist attack or help give them information regarding terrorists then I say do whatever it takes. Im sure right after 9/11 you and most the country would say the same thing, but since weve been safe 9 years people start to forget things. Do whatever it takes to prevent another terrorist attack. And about the constitution, there is no way, not 1 single way possible that they could have had any clue what our world would look like 200 years later. We should take the a lot of what it says seriously and to heart, but at the same point things change and we need to adapt. There wasnt even such thing as terrorism back then so there is no way they could have put what they thought about it into the constitution. I guarantee a lot of the guys that wrote the constitution would change a few things if they were around today. Its ridiculous to think that every single thing in there we still need to abide by 100 percent no matter what. Very naive. And if you bring up Geneva convention and all that, well the terrorists dont follow the rules. They dont care about killing innocents and torture, etc so I dont really care to hear about the geneva rights when it comes to terrorists. Thats all I got but god forbid another terrorist attack happened on US soil, you and many others would start changing your beliefs again. [/quote] It isnt even about the Geneva convention its about numerous expert after expert discussing how it doesn't work, that they will only tell you want they think you want to hear in order to stop the torture. How it creates blowback and more terrorism and how we can get more reliable data without it. Please spend some time reading what they have to say. Thats why they gave us the ability to change the constitution, NOT NOT NOT to not follow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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