Obama is dead wrong here

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='04 March 2010 - 04:40 PM' timestamp='1267738841' post='867039']
If you hear any laughter, it is at you.

All I did was state my opinion.
You are the one that made it personal.
Then deflected points I made with unwarranted shots.

Even when I pointed out your hypocrisy about "aggreeing or being wrong"
you took another shot.

Now I remember why I avoid this part of the message board.
It is agree with me or be talked down to and ridiculed here.

Funny thing is, it always seems to come from the people
that preach from their soapboxes about the U.S. being more tolerant
to others views and beliefs.
[/quote]


I have no tolerance for the opinions that are destroying this country and causing what will be more terrorism. None.

[quote name='CincyInDC' date='04 March 2010 - 07:36 PM' timestamp='1267749362' post='867140']
discourse this is not (between Jamie and Old). sigh.
[/quote]


Is it ever with him?

[CTBengalsFan]

For people who do think all this is just peachy keen, why not keep going?

If we know someone might be plotting to murder someone, why don't we send a SWAT team to go murder them?

How about if we know someone is muscle for a gang or organized crime and therefore we probably know they've committed murders and/or might in the future? Let's just send the FBI to go murder them right? And while we're at it, anyone of importance in that world too. Or anyone who's worked in that world at all. Or anyone who's sold drugs. Or anyone who's used drugs. You see where this can easily go. It should just be Dexter in real life only we don't even have to hide it. I mean, we're only killing bad guys right? (unless we're wrong)

We have rules for a reason. They're SUPPOSED to make things difficult. It's not supposed to be easy to follow rules or else there wouldn't be a need for them. The Constitutional protections we have in place are there because history has been replete with corrupt governments who clamp down on their people while CLAIMING to be doing the just thing.

Again, this isn't the French Revolution. We're not suspending liberty in order to save the idea of liberty (how did this work out for the French by the way? other than the fact that it took them until 1948 to actually get a Republic). The terrorists can't take our liberties away from us by themselves, they need us to agree with it. And by the looks of this thread, they've got a great start. From one attack. More than eight years ago. And of course these same people will probably complain when Iraqis/Afghans haven't gotten over our incursions in ten years.

Maybe it's because the world's just experiencing its first terrorist attacks. [img]http://www.d3scene.com/forum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif[/img]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' date='04 March 2010 - 01:42 AM' timestamp='1267684931' post='866814']
Amusing. And Jamie's right. And here's a tidbit from history many people aren't aware of: A lot of contemporary folks thought Aristotle was involved in the (probable) assassination of Alexander the Great.
[/quote]

Are you saying he didn't just get drunk and get pneumonia from swimming in a river at night? Oh, the mysteries of history. The crazy reality is that we know so very little about history, even though it seems like we know so much. I seem to remember Plutarch suggesting that assassination wasn't likely. If I can remember my CAMS (Classic and Ancient Mediterranean Studies) class at all. (Most reading for an elective.... EVER!)

[oldschooler]

[quote name='CincyInDC' date='04 March 2010 - 06:36 PM' timestamp='1267749362' post='867140']
discourse this is not (between Jamie and Old). sigh.
[/quote]

I never tried to make it between me and him. bigger sigh.



[quote name='Jamie_B' date='04 March 2010 - 08:11 PM' timestamp='1267755081' post='867179']
I have no tolerance for the opinions that are destroying this country and causing what will be more terrorism. None.[/quote]

So you are just cementing that your opinion on the subject is the only right one, and no other opinion
will be tolerated. Right? Yet you act like I always got to be right and other opinions wrong.

And again, you act like capturing terrorist, giving them a fair trail and putting them in jail for
life or gving them a "legal" death sentence will not cause more terrorism.

Surely you aren't that self righteous and thick?

[quote]Is it ever with him?
[/quote]


This makes zero sense.

Discourse means a lengthy discussion of a subject.

I was having one. You are the one that tried to make other topics the issue,
Tried to insult me by calling me "John Wayne" (I took it as a compliment by the way),
acted like you were going to have to choke a bitch, said you were arguing with
a stupid person and got beaten with experience, acted like people have to agree
with me or be wrong (even though the title of this thread states that either people
agree with your view or be dead wrong).

I just responded accordingly to the shit you said. So please spare me your self righteous indignation.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='05 March 2010 - 07:24 AM' timestamp='1267791886' post='867250']
So you are just cementing that your opinion on the subject is the only right one, and no other opinion
will be tolerated. Right? Yet you act like I always got to be right and other opinions wrong.

And again, you act like capturing terrorist, giving them a fair trail and putting them in jail for
life or gving them a "legal" death sentence will not cause more terrorism.

Surely you aren't that self righteous and thick?


[/quote]


No I'm saying the constitution is right, and that I have little patience for those who think themselves patriots while they shit all over it.

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' date='04 March 2010 - 09:24 PM' timestamp='1267755875' post='867190']
Are you saying he didn't just get drunk and get pneumonia from swimming in a river at night? Oh, the mysteries of history. The crazy reality is that we know so very little about history, even though it seems like we know so much. I seem to remember Plutarch suggesting that assassination wasn't likely. If I can remember my CAMS (Classic and Ancient Mediterranean Studies) class at all. (Most reading for an elective.... EVER!)
[/quote]
Yes. Lots and lots of speculation about the demise of Alexander. Here's [url="http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/alexander_t28.html"]Arrian on the matter[/url]. This'd be a fun conversation over a few beers.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='05 March 2010 - 09:02 AM' timestamp='1267801342' post='867319']
No I'm saying the constitution is right, and that I have little patience for those who think themselves patriots while they shit all over it.
[/quote]


First off, I don't think myself to be a patriot anymore or less than you do.
I don't want innocent Americans (or any innocent people period) killed
by anyone. But innocent people are killed everyday whether I want it
to happen or not.

And I am telling you due process applies to criminals that are apprehended.

You act like criminals aren't killed by Police Officers and Agents that can't
be apprehended for whatever reason. I see this as no different. So I don't
look at it like I am shitting on anything. So again, spare me your self righteous indignation.

I just don't see how you expect us to raid terrorist hideouts/strongholds and bring
them to "justice" without at least some innocent people dying in the process.
Namely American Agents.

And I asked you this once already, are you opposed to assassinating
foreign terrorist too?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='05 March 2010 - 11:18 AM' timestamp='1267805883' post='867343']
First off, I don't think myself to be a patriot anymore or less than you do.
I don't want innocent Americans (or any innocent people period) killed
by anyone. But innocent people are killed everyday whether I want it
to happen or not.

And I am telling you due process applies to criminals that are apprehended.

You act like criminals aren't killed by Police Officers and Agents that can't
be apprehended for whatever reason. I see this as no different. So I don't
look at it like I am shitting on anything. So again, spare me your self righteous indignation.

I just don't see how you expect us to raid terrorist hideouts/strongholds and bring
them to "justice" without at least some innocent people dying in the process.
Namely American Agents.

And I asked you this once already, are you opposed to assassinating
foreign terrorist too?
[/quote]


Good lord Old, were arguing in circles now. I already told you that I would prefer that we capture and put them on trial if possible. You just typed all that up when all you had to do to get the answer to that was to read post #6 where I said...

[quote]I would rather us capture them and put them on trial if at all possible. [/quote]

to which you replied ...

[quote]Bullets are cheaper. [/quote]

and then you get upset that I called you John Wayne....really? really?

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='05 March 2010 - 10:27 AM' timestamp='1267806477' post='867347']
Good lord Old, were arguing in circles now. I already told you that I would prefer that we capture and put them on trial if possible. You just typed all that up when all you had to do to get the answer to that was to read post #6 where I said...



to which you replied ...



and then you get upset that I called you John Wayne....really? really?
[/quote]


Not really.


I would say that whenever possible, that is the case.
But I don't think they assassinate people that they could
just apprehend with out the high risk of losing Agents.
In that case, bullets are cheaper in a lot more ways than one.
And I am all for it. Completely. Totally.


And we were talking about innocent people being killed.
If the person is guilty, then yes, by all means, bullets are cheaper.
Like I said, I don't view those people as regular criminals that deserve
anything other than a bullet in the head. I don't want to waste one
fucking dollar or breath of air putting those fuckers on trial and paying
them to live out their days with food, shelter and security at my expense.

And I am not upset you called me John Wayne. I got upset because
you called me that to try and insult me.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='05 March 2010 - 11:40 AM' timestamp='1267807220' post='867352']
Not really.


I would say that whenever possible, that is the case.
But I don't think they assassinate people that they could
just apprehend with out the high risk of losing Agents.
In that case, bullets are cheaper in a lot more ways than one.
And I am all for it. Completely. Totally.


And we were talking about innocent people being killed.
If the person is guilty, then yes, by all means, bullets are cheaper.
Like I said, I don't view those people as regular criminals that deserve
anything other than a bullet in the head. I don't want to waste one
fucking dollar or breath of air putting those fuckers on trial and paying
them to live out their days with food, shelter and security at my expense.

And I am not upset you called me John Wayne. I got upset because
you called me that to try and insult me.
[/quote]


So you're in favor of "Minority Report" type of Justice then.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='05 March 2010 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1267809749' post='867358']
So you're in favor of "Minority Report" type of Justice then.
[/quote]



Didn't they know the criminal was going to commit a crime if they weren't stopped?
Well then yes, yes I am. Aren't you?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='05 March 2010 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1267813318' post='867374']
Didn't they know the criminal was going to commit a crime if they weren't stopped?
Well then yes, yes I am. Aren't you?
[/quote]


I take it you've never seen the movie? I'd recommend it.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='05 March 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1267813661' post='867377']
I take it you've never seen the movie? I'd recommend it.
[/quote]




Yeah I have seen it. Tom Cruise was framed.
If the innocent person that gets killed is Tom Cruise,
I am really all for it.


:ninja?:

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='05 March 2010 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1267815327' post='867395']
Yeah I have seen it. Tom Cruise was framed.
If the innocent person that gets killed is Tom Cruise,
I am really all for it.


:ninja?:
[/quote]


Fuck I cant argue against that.

[sois]

Military intelligence... two words combined that can't make sense.

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='sois' date='05 March 2010 - 02:11 PM' timestamp='1267816282' post='867399']
Military intelligence... two words combined that can't make sense.
[/quote]




Possibly I've seen too much
Hanger 18 I know too much!!!!!!!!

[Jamie_B]

oops

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-adam-gadahn,0,6750278.story


[quote][size="5"]Officers: "American Al-Qaida" Arrested in Pakistan was Not Adam Gadahn
[/size]
KARACHI, Pakistan -- Pakistani officials say an American member of al-Qaida arrested on Sunday was not Riverside County-bred Adam Gadhan as first thought.

They identified the suspect as Abu Yahya Majadin Adam, but gave no details on his background or role.

A name very close to that is listed on the FBI's Web site as an alias for 31-year-old Gadahn, who has appeared in several videos threatening the West since 2001.

An army officer and a senior intelligence officer said that created confusion among officials Sunday, leading them to believe the man in custody was Gadahn, who is known by various aliases including Yahya Majadin Adams and Azzam al-Amriki.

"The resemblance of the name initially caused confusion but now they have concluded he is not Gadahn," said an intelligence officer, who like all Pakistani intelligence agents does not allow his name to be used. "He feels proud to be a member of al-Qaida."

The suspect was arrested during a raid in the sprawling southern metropolis of Karachi.[/quote]

[Jamie_B]

Part 1

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-9-2010/exclusive---marc-thiessen-extended-interview-pt--1

Part 2

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-9-2010/exclusive---marc-thiessen-extended-interview-pt--2

Part 3

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-9-2010/exclusive---marc-thiessen-extended-interview-pt--3

[Jamie_B]

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/torture/cia-historian-rips-marc-thiessen-says-hes-got-ciatorture-history-wrong/


[quote]CIA Historian Rips Marc Thiessen, Says He’s Got CIA/Torture History Wrong
As you know, former Bush speechwriter Marc Thiessen has carved out a mini-industry as a leading defender of the Bush-Cheney torture program, arguing that it may have been the greatest triumph in the history of the CIA and that Obama has put us in grave danger by dismantling it.

Guess who disagrees with Thiessen: A leading CIA historian and longtime Pulitzer-Prize winning national-security reporter.

I checked in with Tim Weiner, the author of a history of the CIA called “Legacy of Ashes,” and he tore into Thiessen’s interpretation of history, saying Thiessen has it all wrong.

Thiessen made a splash last week by saying that the interrogation program may have been the “single most successful and important intelligence program” in “the history of the CIA.” Thiessen even argued that the Obama approach to terrorism — supposedly in use in the 1990s — helped bring about 9/11. He’s made variants of this case far and wide.

But it just isn’t so, says Weiner.

“It was not the most successful intelligence program in the history of the CIA by a long shot,” he emails. Weiner added that by the long view of the CIA’s history, there is no more debate.

“The debate’s over,” he said. “Torture stained the honor of the United States.”

Weiner also strongly contested the notion that Obama’s approach represents a dialing back to a pre-9/11 mentality. “The Obama administration has some pretty robust programs going on, killing suspects all over Afghanistan and Pakistan with armed drones,” he said.

Weiner also contested another Thiessen chesnut: That the Obama administration is killing too many terrorists, rather than subjecting more of them to enhanced interrogation. Weiner dismissed Thiessen’s case as tantamount to arguing that targeting terrorists abroad “more closely resembles treason than counterterrorism.”

Who you gonna believe: A Pulitzer-Prize winning CIA historian, or a former Bushie and torture-dead-ender?[/quote]

[Jamie_B]

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/media/etn/2008/alert/313/

[quote][size="5"]Top Interrogators Declare Torture Ineffective in Intelligence Gathering[/size]

NEW YORK—Fifteen former interrogators and intelligence officials with more than 350 years collective field experience have declared that torture is an “unlawful, ineffective and counterproductive” way to gather intelligence, in a statement of principles released today.

The group of former interrogators and intelligence officials released a set of principles to guide effective interrogation practices at the conclusion of a meeting convened by Human Rights First last week in Washington. The meeting participants served with the CIA, the FBI and the U.S. military.

The principles are based on the interrogators and intelligence officials’ experiences of what works and what does not in the field. Interrogation techniques that do not resort to torture yield more complete and accurate intelligence, they say. The principles call for the creation of a well-defined single standard of conduct in interrogation and detention practices across all U.S. agencies. At stake is the loss of critical intelligence and time, as well as the United States’ reputation abroad and its credibility in demanding the humane treatment of captured Americans.

The full text of the principles and brief bios of its signers follow below.

The group gathered together in Washington last week for two days to discuss the most effective ways to obtain timely and credible information from suspected terrorists and other individuals who threaten the security of the United States, during which time they also met with Presidential campaign advisors and Members of Congress to discuss these issues.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Summer, 2008

The principles below were developed by 15 individuals who served as senior interrogators, interviewers and intelligence officials in the United States military, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Central Intelligence Agency. The group met at a forum hosted by Human Rights First on June 17 and 18, 2008, in Washington, D.C. to discuss the most effective ways to obtain timely and credible information from suspected terrorists and other individuals who threaten the security of the United States.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

We believe:

1. Non-coercive, traditional, rapport-based interviewing approaches provide the best possibility for obtaining accurate and complete intelligence.

2. Torture and other inhumane and abusive interview techniques are unlawful, ineffective and counterproductive. We reject them unconditionally.

3. The use of torture and other inhumane and abusive treatment results in false and misleading information, loss of critical intelligence, and has caused serious damage to the reputation and standing of the United States. The use of such techniques also facilitates enemy recruitment, misdirects or wastes scarce resources, and deprives the United States of the standing to demand humane treatment of captured Americans.

4. There must be a single well-defined standard of conduct across all U.S. agencies to govern the detention and interrogation of people anywhere in U.S. custody, consistent with our values as a nation.

5. There is no conflict between adhering to our nation’s essential values, including respect for inherent human dignity, and our ability to obtain the information we need to protect the nation.

Signed by:

* Frank Anderson

Frank Anderson worked for the CIA from 1968 until 1995. He served three tours of duty in the Middle East as an agency station chief, headed the Afghan Task Force (1987-1989), and was chief of the Near East Division. He now runs a consulting practice that focuses on the Middle East.

* Jack Cloonan

Jack Cloonan served as a special agent with the FBI from 1977 to 2002. He began investigating Al Qaeda in the early 1990’s and served as a special agent for the Bureau's Osama bin Laden unit from 1996 to 2002.

* Colonel (Ret.) Stuart A. Herrington, US Army

Stu Herrington served thirty years as an Army intelligence officer, specializing in human intelligence/counterintelligence. He has extensive interrogation experience from service in Vietnam, Panama, and Operation Desert Storm. He has traveled to Guantanamo and Iraq at the behest of the Army to evaluate detainee exploitation operations, and he recently taught a three-day seminar on humane interrogation practices to the Army’s 201st MI Battalion, Interrogation, during its activation at Ft. Sam Houston, Texas.

* Pierre Joly

Pierre Joly has more than 39 years of military intelligence experience. He currently serves as the Vice President of Phoenix Consulting Group where he leads more than 350 employees involved in providing human intelligence training to members of the intelligence community and law enforcement agencies of the United States. Immediately before joining Phoenix he served as the Chief of Controlled Operations at DIA from 2005- 2006 and the Chief of Operations for the Iraq Survey Group in Baghdad from 2003-2004.

* Brigadier General (Ret.) David Irvine, US Army

General Irvine enlisted in the 96th Infantry Division, United States Army Reserve, in 1962. He received a direct commission in 1967 as a strategic intelligence officer. He maintained a faculty assignment for 18 years with the Sixth U.S. Army Intelligence School, and taught prisoner of war interrogation and military law to soldiers, Marines, and airmen. He retired in 2002, and his last assignment was Deputy Commander for the 96th Regional Readiness Command. General Irvine served 4 terms as a Republican legislator in the Utah House of Representatives, has served as a congressional chief of staff, and served as a commissioner on the Utah Public Utilities Commission.

* Steven M. Kleinman

Steve Kleinman is an active duty intelligence officer who has twenty-five years of operational and leadership experience in human intelligence, special survival training, and special operations. He has served as a case officer, as a strategic debriefer, and as an interrogator during Operations JUST CAUSE, DESERT STORM, and IRAQI FREEDOM. He previously served as the DoD Senior Intelligence Officer for Special Survival Training and is currently assigned as the Reserve Director of Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance at the Air Force Special Operations Command. As an independent consultant, his engagements have included serving as a senior advisor to the Intelligence Science Board's Study on Educing Information and as a member of the faculty for the U.S. Army Behavioral Science Consulting Team Course.

* Dr. George Mandel

Dr. George Mandel, born in Berlin, Germany, came to the US in 1937. He was inducted into the U.S. Army in 1944, and after basic training was transferred to Camp Ritchie, MD, for training in military interrogation because of his knowledge of German. He was then transferred to P.O. Box 1142, outside of Washington, D.C. where he conducted interrogation of German scientists brought to this country as prisoners of war. After a brief stint at Fort Strong, outside of Boston, he returned to 1142 to continue his previous work in military intelligence until the end of the War in Europe. After discharge in 1946 he returned briefly to 1142, and then entered graduate school at Yale University, specializing in organic chemistry. After receiving his Ph.D. he began his career in biochemical pharmacology, at George Washington University School of Medicine, starting as Research Associate in 1949, and promotion to the ranks to Professor. He became chairman of the Department of Pharmacology in 1960, stepped down from that position in 1996 and currently is working there as Professor of Pharmacology & Physiology. His research work has been in drug metabolism, cancer chemotherapy and carcinogenesis.

* Joe Navarro

For 25 years, Joe Navarro worked as an FBI special agent in the area of counterintelligence and behavioral assessment. A founding member of the National Security Division’s Behavioral Analysis Program, he is on the adjunct faculty at Saint Leo University and the University of Tampa and remains a consultant to the intelligence community. Mr. Navarro is the author of a number of books about interviewing techniques and practice including Advanced Interviewing which he co-wrote with Jack Schafer and Hunting Terrorists: A Look at the Psycopathology of Terror. He currently teaches the Advanced Terrorism Interview course at the FBI.

* Torin Nelson

Torin Nelson is a veteran Human Intelligence (HUMINT) Specialist and interrogator with 16-years of experience working with military and government agencies. He has worked in major theaters of operation in Eastern Europe, the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Mr. Nelson has worked in tactical and strategic environments, both as a soldier and civilian advisor. Primary assignments include the 66th Military Intelligence and 300th Military Intelligence Brigades. He has also worked for the US Army Intelligence Center, Southern European Task Force (SETAF), the On-Site Inspection Agency (OSIA, later DTRA), Combined Joint Task Force 170 (later CJTF-Gitmo), CFLCC (Iraq), CJTF-76 (later -82/-101) (Afghanistan), NATO (IFOR, SFOR, and ISAF), as well as numerous military to military joint training exercises. Mr. Nelson is one of the founding members at the Society for Professional Human Intelligence (SPHI). He is currently working in the Middle East as a senior interrogator and mentor.

* William Quinn

William Quinn served in the United States Army from 2001 to 2006 as a human intelligence collector, interrogator, and Korean linguist. He was deployed to Iraq from February 2005 to February 2006 in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, and was stationed at Abu Ghraib and Camp Cropper. Will is currently studying International Politics and Security Studies at Georgetown University and is a cadet in Army ROTC.

* Buck Revell

Mr. Revell served a 30-year career (1964-1994) in the FBI as a Special Agent and senior executive. From 1980 until 1991, Mr. Revell served in FBI Headquarters first as Assistant Director in charge of Criminal Investigations (including terrorism); then as Associate Deputy Director he was in charge of the Investigative, Intelligence, Counter-Terrorism and International programs of the Bureau (1985-91). In September 1987, Mr. Revell was placed in charge of a joint FBI/CIA/U.S. military operation (Operation Goldenrod) which led to the first apprehension overseas of an international terrorist. Prior to joining the FBI, Mr. Revell served as an officer and aviator in the U.S. Marine Corps, leaving active duty in 1964 as a Captain. He currently serves as the President of an international business and security consulting group based in Dallas.

* Ken Robinson

Ken Robinson served a twenty-year career in a variety of tactical, operational, and strategic assignments including Ranger, Special Forces, and clandestine special operations units. His experience includes service with the National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency and the Central Intelligence Agency. Ken has extensive experience in CIA and Israeli interrogation methods and is a member of the U.S. Military Intelligence Hall of Fame.

* Roger Ruthberg

Roger Ruthberg served as an interrogator in the U.S. Army for 22 years. He conducted interrogation and counterintelligence operations during Operations Desert Storm, Joint Endeavor, and Iraqi Freedom. He currently works as an instructor in debriefing operations on contract to the Department of Defense.

* Haviland Smith

Haviland Smith is a retired CIA case officer and Station Chief who served for 26 years. He served in East and West Europe and in the Middle East. He also served for three years as Chief of the Counterterrorism Staff at the Agency, as well as a tour as Executive Assistant to the DDCI.

* Lieutenant General (Ret.) Harry E. Soyster, USA

Lieutenant General Soyster served as Director, Defense Intelligence Agency during DESERT SHIELD/STORM. He also served as Deputy Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence, Department of the Army, Commanding General, U.S. Army, Commanding General, U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command and in the Joint Reconnaissance Center, Joint Chiefs of Staff. In Vietnam he was an operations officer in a field artillery battalion. Upon retirement he was VP for International Operations with Military Professional Resources Incorporated and returned to government as a Special Assistant to the SEC ARMY for WWII 60th Anniversary Commemorations completed in 2006.[/quote]

[CTBengalsFan]

Jamie those people are obviously wussies.

I've been researching the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_civil_war]Spanish Civil War of the 1930's[/url] lately. An event that my public education failed to even inform me even happened. 500,000 people killed, about half of them being noncombatants. Anyone presumed to be on the other side was rounded up and shot without thought. The definition of terrorism, right there. Terrorism one would actually need to be so paranoid about.

I just can't get over ~3,000 deaths in one incident leading people to such extreme reactions. 250,000 deaths is something to worry about. Secret police is something are something to worry about. People being dragged from their homes at night for being "opposition" is something to worry about. Muslims in freaking caves half a world away who have "successfully" carried a single attack on the mainland in the past decade is not something to radically change your policies over, or worry about any more than you worry a drunk driver might kill you on your drive home.

The reality is we have no clue what real "terror" is. Not even a little bit.

[John~Galt]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='10 March 2010 - 04:06 PM' timestamp='1268255207' post='869229']
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/torture/cia-historian-rips-marc-thiessen-says-hes-got-ciatorture-history-wrong/
[/quote]

weiner hehe

[Enon Bengal]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' date='15 March 2010 - 10:43 PM' timestamp='1268707398' post='870803']
Jamie those people are obviously wussies.

I've been researching the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_civil_war]Spanish Civil War of the 1930's[/url] lately. An event that my public education failed to even inform me even happened. 500,000 people killed, about half of them being noncombatants. Anyone presumed to be on the other side was rounded up and shot without thought. The definition of terrorism, right there. Terrorism one would actually need to be so paranoid about.

[b]I just can't get over ~3,000 deaths in one incident leading people to such extreme reactions.[/b] 250,000 deaths is something to worry about. Secret police is something are something to worry about. People being dragged from their homes at night for being "opposition" is something to worry about. Muslims in freaking caves half a world away who have "successfully" carried a single attack on the mainland in the past decade is not something to radically change your policies over, or worry about any more than you worry a drunk driver might kill you on your drive home.

The reality is we have no clue what real "terror" is. Not even a little bit.
[/quote]
That and the dozens of attacks on Americans and our assets before 9/11...

[oldschooler]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' date='15 March 2010 - 09:43 PM' timestamp='1268707398' post='870803']
Jamie those people are obviously wussies. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif[/img]

I've been researching the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_civil_war"]Spanish Civil War of the 1930's[/url] lately. An event that my public education failed to even inform me even happened. 500,000 people killed, about half of them being noncombatants. Anyone presumed to be on the other side was rounded up and shot without thought. The definition of terrorism, right there. Terrorism one would actually need to be so paranoid about.

I just can't get over ~3,000 deaths in one incident leading people to such extreme reactions. 250,000 deaths is something to worry about. Secret police is something are something to worry about. People being dragged from their homes at night for being "opposition" is something to worry about. Muslims in freaking caves half a world away who have "successfully" carried a single attack on the mainland in the past decade is not something to radically change your policies over, or worry about any more than you worry a drunk driver might kill you on your drive home.

The reality is we have no clue what real "terror" is. Not even a little bit.
[/quote]




So we should wait for 247,000 more people to be killed before worrying about terrorism?
Gotcha.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='16 March 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1268751952' post='870882']
So we should wait for 247,000 more people to be killed before worrying about terrorism?
Gotcha.


[/quote]


- "The terrorists are gonna get us."

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='16 March 2010 - 10:56 AM' timestamp='1268754987' post='870890']
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/default/frantics.gif[/img] - "The terrorists are gonna get us."
[/quote]


They would if it was up to you wussy Pilgrims.




[IMG]http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/743/johnwayneu.gif[/IMG]