|SF2| Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 To be fair, Christians got a ~500-year head start in order to get all their slaughtering and what-not out of the way. Plenty of slaughtering, at that. I mean, damn, really setting the bar in the ol' slaughter department. What's more, a good bit of that widespread slaughter was aimed at Muslims, so it's a little weird to stand back now and imply that it's a fundamentally violent religion when the morally-superior Christians have gone out of their way several different times in a very determined effort to exterminate them. For that matter, the clashes between the various sects of Islam are rooted more in ethnic/tribal/territorial rivalries with religion used as fancy window dressing for a much less noble cause - something any Christian familiar with their faith's real history should easily recognize. (So, like, at least a couple dozen people.) What's more, a lot of those rivalries were purposefully instigated by Christian countries when dividing up the region. Add to that the state of Israel (get real, that is a country based on Judaism regardless of what wikipedia calls their form of government) who formed a nation using terrorism to gain control of the most contentious bit of real estate on Earth, and that's basically 90% of the conflict in the region right there. Add to that our own adventures over oil supplies and there's the other 10%. We've spent the last several decades variously militarizing and destabilizing the region, often both at once, and we want to blame the violence on religious differences? To blame Christians for the slaughter of Muslim almost 1000 years ago demands you completely ignore how Islam started and how it spread during that time period. And the last time I checked it was 2014, not 1648 which happened to be when the Peace Treaty of Westphalia was signed ending the last great war between the different brands of Christianity. 90% of the conflict is in Israel? That is laughable. Its not even CLOSE. 170,000 have died in Syria in 2 years. Thats more than have died in ALL of the Arab Israeli wars combined. Do you have any idea how many people died in the Iran v Iraq war? Even a guess? It always goes back to the Jews doesn't it? Country of 7 million on an airstrip surrounded by a billion muslims are the real problem in middle east. Country that has elections and actual freedoms unlike almost EVERY country that surrounds it is the bad guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 To blame Christians for the slaughter of Muslim almost 1000 years ago demands you completely ignore how Islam started and how it spread during that time period. Kinda like how Christianity spread to the Americas? And the last time I checked it was 2014, not 1648 which happened to be when the Peace Treaty of Westphalia was signed ending the last great war between the different brands of Christianity. I'm not sure what your point was, but "yay" for deciding to take it out on other religions instead of their own. Well, except for Mormons, Northern Ireland, the Klan.. I guess those folks never read the treaty. Of course we don't have to go all the way back to the Crusades, either. There's also the Holocaust, Uganda, Lebanon... 90% of the conflict is in Israel? That is laughable. Its not even CLOSE. 170,000 have died in Syria in 2 years. Thats more than have died in ALL of the Arab Israeli wars combined. Interesting reference there, considering that Hafez al-Assad rose to power largely because of the power vacuum created by failed CIA-backed coups meant to establish a Syrian regime that was willing to recognize Israel. More to the point, the violence in Syria has as much to do with the predominant religion as our own civil war did with Christianity. Perhaps less, in fact, if you consider the roots of the abolitionist movement. Do you have any idea how many people died in the Iran v Iraq war? Even a guess? Another example of religion serving as window dressing for an ethnic/territorial conflict. It always goes back to the Jews doesn't it? In the Middle East? Israel is kind of a big deal, yes. Of course Judaism and Israel aren't the same thing, but yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Arguing which religion is worse is like arguing whose fart smells better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Arguing which religion is worse is like arguing whose fart smells better... Agreed. The Abrahamic religions are all bloody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 Kinda like how Christianity spread to the Americas? Ancient History. 2014. Check your calendar. I'm not sure what your point was, but "yay" for deciding to take it out on other religions instead of their own. Well, except for Mormons, Northern Ireland, the Klan.. I guess those folks never read the treaty. Of course we don't have to go all the way back to the Crusades, either. There's also the Holocaust, Uganda, Lebanon... Utter nonsense. Again 2014 not 1945. Hitler hated the Jews because the COMMUNISTS took over Berlin during WWI and force the German Army to sue for peace. The commies were led by Jews who, BTW, had become atheists. I wasn't aware the Mormons were on the march somewhere killing people. Northern Ireland? You have me there 100's of thousands dare I say MILLIONS have died in the horrific battles in Northern Ireland. Just ask U2. Lebanon was the PLO attacking the Christians. Thats what the PLO does. Interesting reference there, considering that Hafez al-Assad rose to power largely because of the power vacuum created by failed CIA-backed coups meant to establish a Syrian regime that was willing to recognize Israel. More to the point, the violence in Syria has as much to do with the predominant religion as our own civil war did with Christianity. Perhaps less, in fact, if you consider the roots of the abolitionist movement. What in the fuck was this supposed to mean? And again, its a war NOT involving Israel and is far more deadly than any war that has occurred in Israel. In the Middle East? Israel is kind of a big deal, yes. Of course Judaism and Israel aren't the same thing, but yeah. Israel is a big deal in the Middle East. A country that is not a dictatorship, that doesn't abuse women, and is actually making something of itself WITHOUT having a huge supply of oil to sell is something rare in the Middle East. I know you side with the Muslims which means the rights of women, homosexuals and non believers are of no importance to you but I am a Bill of Rights type of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted August 24, 2014 Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 I know you side with the Muslims which means the rights of women, homosexuals and non believers are of no importance to you but I am a Bill of Rights type of guy. Hey man.. How about attacking the post and not the poster? It's pretty silly to make that kind of accusation just because someone may not agree with the way Israel has conducted itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Hey man.. How about attacking the post and not the poster? It's pretty silly to make that kind of accusation just because someone may not agree with the way Israel has conducted itself. Because the poster and many like him ALWAYS ignore far more horrific behavior by the majority of Middle Eastern countries and hold Israel to a far higher standard of behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 Because the poster and many like him ALWAYS ignore far more horrific behavior by the majority of Middle Eastern countries and hold Israel to a far higher standard of behavior. I reject the notion that not blindly siding w/Israel = terrorism, or that Islam is inherently any more violent than the other Abrahamic sects. You'd dismiss Christian terrorism in Ireland - also only tangentially a religious conflict - as trivial but justification for genocide in Palestine? I wouldn't assume every Christian is out bombing abortion clinics, either. It sounds like you don't know any Muslims personally but I don't want to assume. As for Syria, I don't know how else to illustrate that the civil war isn't about religious differences. Like I said, I doubt it's ever truly about religious differences. Seems clear to me, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I reject the notion that not blindly siding w/Israel = terrorism, or that Islam is inherently any more violent than the other Abrahamic sects. You'd dismiss Christian terrorism in Ireland - also only tangentially a religious conflict - as trivial but justification for genocide in Palestine? I wouldn't assume every Christian is out bombing abortion clinics, either. It sounds like you don't know any Muslims personally but I don't want to assume. As for Syria, I don't know how else to illustrate that the civil war isn't about religious differences. Like I said, I doubt it's ever truly about religious differences. Seems clear to me, anyway. I never claimed one had to blindly side with Isreal, I said one needed to NOT BE BLIND to what the other belligerents are doing. Sorry, its 2014 and right now, Islam is running away with the trophy for most violent religion. I really don't care what happened decades and centuries ago when I wasn't alive. Yes, I do dismiss Christian Terrorists in Ireland because it is a POLITICAL fight, not a religious one. The Protestants want to remain a part of the UK because they consider themselves British. The Catholics want to leave the UK and join a United Ireland because they consider themselves Irish. In any case there has been approximately 3530 deaths in that region in the last 40 years attributed to the separatist battles. From 1970 to 1979 Chicago had over 9000 murders. Syria has had over 170,000 in 2 years. The Syrian Civil War is about removing a SECULAR dictator and installing a Sunni based theocracy beholden to Sharia law. Not sure why this would not be considered a religious war considering whether you live or die is based on what religion you ascribe to or are willing to change to given the choice of life, death, or leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Exclusive: CNN speaks to a boy who witnessed beheadings, crufixion at an ISIS camp for children in Syria: http://cnn.it/VSTrB8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yes, I do dismiss Christian Terrorists in Ireland because it is a POLITICAL fight, not a religious one. The Protestants want to remain a part of the UK because they consider themselves British. The Catholics want to leave the UK and join a United Ireland because they consider themselves Irish. ..and then they use their conflicting religions to help justify to themselves doing terrible shit. Which was my point. In any case there has been approximately 3530 deaths in that region in the last 40 years attributed to the separatist battles. That's a convenient cutoff, considering that the fighting there has been going on 10 times that long. Which, sorry, is still relevant even if it happened before you were paying attention. From 1970 to 1979 Chicago had over 9000 murders And? Syria has had over 170,000 in 2 years. Oh, I see, so you're saying Chicago is not the same as Syria. Well, can't argue with that. The Syrian Civil War is about removing a SECULAR dictator and installing a Sunni based theocracy beholden to Sharia law. Not sure why this would not be considered a religious war considering whether you live or die is based on what religion you ascribe to or are willing to change to given the choice of life, death, or leaving. That's a gross oversimplification. Then again, so is your premise that Islam is some horrible violent religion and not all about peace and love like Christianity. It's provably, undeniably false, and trying to discount other religious violence because it didn't happen in your lifetime is a flimsy attempt to dodge all that. Do I need to start quoting all the passages from the bible about stoning people to death for things like wearing mixed fabrics or how it's ok to sell a rape victim to their rapist? Oh right, but Christians are able to decide for themselves what passages are relevant and which are antiquated or just plain wrong. Just like Muslims. Seriously, do you know any personally? "Religious violence" is rarely about religion, and the Middle East is no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Obviously graphic ... VIDEO OF BEHEADING OF REPORTER STEVEN SOTLOFF BY ISIS http://shoebat.com/2014/09/02/just-found-video-american-steven-sotloff-getting-beheaded-isis/ What the fuck is wrong with people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FdnMJyiiwg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted September 6, 2014 Report Share Posted September 6, 2014 Welcome to the "Islamic State" land (ISIS/ISIL) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wmdEFvsY0E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted September 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 http://youtu.be/AUjHb4C7b94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 http://youtu.be/oMjXbuj7BPI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted September 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Surprised you would post that Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Surprised you would post that Jamie. Why? I have long since realized Obama is just as bad as Bush when it comes to foreign policy. He is just as much as Neoliberal as Bush was. Further why would you be surprised I post something that proves what many of us have been saying about the US's long term plans for the Middle east? Didn't I tell you long ago this is all about long term plans for Iran? The straits of hormuz after all is one of the world's chokepoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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