BengalBacker Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 VERY graphic. http://ia801509.us.archive.org/18/items/al_saleel_4/SaleelSawarim.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Duh fuck is wrong with people? They worship the same God. Just not the same way. Yeah, seems worthy of all that disregard for other human life. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I got through about nine minutes of it so far, and I want to watch the rest of it. My first impression was "Gee, these guys sure have upped their production values...the killing is even in HD!". My second thought was "I wish I had a translator so I could understand what their grievances are so I can make sense of them". My third was "What in the fuck is going on here?" and finally, I thought "Wow...this is the allegedly rebuilt Iraq that we left behind after all our lives, loves and billions upon billions of treasure was spent...MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalRep85-9 Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 http://pietervanostaeyen.wordpress.com/2014/06/02/al-furqan-media-salil-as-sawarim-part-iv/ it's not the HD quality but it has english subtitles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 And another thing: if these guys are so badass and confident, why do they always hide their identities? Not just from cameras, but from their own people they are exhorting to join their cause? This shit just makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I couldn't get through it. I cannot endorse ANYONE yelling out "Allahu Akhbar" as they see people die. It's just sick. Fuck those guys. I hope the US Air Force shows back up and bombs these guys back into their holes. Which of course will solve exactly nothing, nor will it address their grievances, but since they aren't willing to address their issues in a way that doesn't involve murdering their fellow countrymen (and we have no idea if any of these people being killed are members of the so-called American backed Jalibani forces) it's just nuts. Who does this? Why? I am of the increasingly negative opinion of religion as a reason to fight against anything with overt violence to the point where I wish we'd just glass the place for the betterment of humanity. Iraq, formerly Mesopotamia, has had over 10,000 years to be the center of civilization and all it's showing now is abject and arbitrary violence. What is the purpose of this? I guess there's just some things I will never understand...especially cultures that are so hung up on religion that waging holy war is the only way to conduct themselves. That's so 15th century. Get over it. Not everyone wants to be like you, nor do people have to die because you think they are infidels. Fuck you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Stolen from a friend of mine..... Hey everyone I got an idea!! Lets invade a country telling them we are bringing democracy and then put a rich white guy who doesn't speak a lick of Arabic in place to rule by fiat for an entire year. That will totally work! And while he is charge, he can fire and disassemble the police and army, because taking paychecks away from the people with guns never causes problems for those countries.Oh wait, that didn't work.... Well I got another great idea, lets finally cobble together a government that looks kind of democratic and lets hand pick a prime minister to lead it from the Dawa party. Oh yeah, forget that Dawa is believed to be responsible for the 1983 bombing of the US embassy in Kuwait, forget that the Lebanese faction of the Dawa party evolved into Hezbollah, and lets completely ignore that the party ideology is largely indistinguishable from the Ayatollah's that lead the Iranian revolution, this guy will totally be on our side.Oh wait the guy we picked ended up pulling off the scotch tape we used to bind the country together by attempting to arrest the highest ranking Sunni in the gov't two days after we pulled the last US forces out. And he has increasingly used the Ministry of the Interior forces as a personal army, harassing political opponents and isolating Sunni groups causing them to bond together against him. And what is this you say? A fundamentalist party has started allying with those groups and began taking over towns in December of 2013 and now controls a large swath of the country.... Hmmm what should we do now?I know, let's stop believing we understand the middle east, because instead of having the knowledge and foresight to think things through we just keep arrogantly applying short term band-aids and then let our collective ADHD completely distract us from the situation so that instead of nipping mistakes in the bud we end up letting them fester and grow till... BOOM a new crisis appears seemingly out of nowhere for the idiot talking heads on TV to bobble emphatically over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Say what you will about Saddam, and none of it good, but he knew how to keep the 3 factions from warring with each other. The idea that we should go back is coming from those who wish to make sure the outcome is in the favor of our oligarchs. All of this was entirely predictable and a few of us were predicting it a few years ago. If we want true peace there Iraq needs to cease to exist and become 3 countries. Something BJ advocated for a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Very good overview of recent turmoil in Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I've read a few different sources saying that 30,000 Iraqi regulars were routed from Mosul by an estimated ISIS force of less than 1,000 men. If true, this does not make me want to send more planes, "advisors", missiles, ammo, or much anything else for that matter that isn't strictly humanitarian aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalRep85-9 Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Can someone more versed in foreign policy/relations please explain to me why we are constantly trying to "save" the middle east? Other than oil, or is that all? Sure seems like there is no peace, there has never been peace, and there will never be peace among them. What does us getting in the middle achieve besides dead soldiers and astronomical amounts of money lost? From my ignorant point of view it seems like an all or nothing approach should be adopted. We either bomb the entire country in shocking fashion killing every single person in it, or let them continue killing each other over who's great-great-great-great-great-great-great grand daddy called their god. We've tried the middle ground, failed in SPECTACULAR fashion. Thousands of lives lost, families destroyed, and trillions of dollars wasted to get right back to the exact same spot. I know that Bush wanted revenge on Sadaam and Cheney wanted Halliburton contracts but my god has this endeavor been a catastrophic failure. If anyone reading this happens to have a time machine could you go back and pop a few chads for Gore? Shit couldn't possibly have gone any worse with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Can someone more versed in foreign policy/relations please explain to me why we are constantly trying to "save" the middle east? Other than oil, or is that all? One fundamental that folks sometimes overlook is the geography of the area. If you look at a world map, notice that the middle east from say, eastern Egypt through Jordan/Syria represents sort of a crossroads/choke point between Africa, the Mediterranean, and southwest Asia proper (say, Iraq/Iran and eastwards.) Furthermore, if you go down the Red Sea then there is access to ancient sea trading routes which have existed for thousands of years--to the Indian subcontinent, through the straits of Malacca, and over to Southwest Asia and China. So, control of this vital area has been a geopolitical conditionality for all kinds of societies going way, way back into history. Resources are important, but equally as important is the relative ease (or deliberate blocking) of trade traffic of those resources and other goods. Through history, specific reasons for why this area is so contentious have changed, according to which kingdoms/countries/nations/empires were powerful. Trade is one very important element of this. Toss in religious fervor and you have a real tinderbox. Recent European and now US involvement in the area more or less are in accord with these fundamentals, but don't forget that Africa once had great empires which interacted with Egypt and Asia, and that the Egyptians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, and, with the rise of Islam, the Caliphates and European crusaders have fought over the area as well. Geography and trade being what it is--not to mention this is where the margins of different cultures meet and interact for better or worse--the middle east will always be an important and contested area of the globe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I have a sickening feeling with oddly familiar tunes playing between my ears. Can Nancy Sinatra record a new soundtrack to be played alongside the news during the next Iraq conflict, war, etc... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 One fundamental that folks sometimes overlook is the geography of the area. If you look at a world map, notice that the middle east from say, eastern Egypt through Jordan/Syria represents sort of a crossroads/choke point between Africa, the Mediterranean, and southwest Asia proper (say, Iraq/Iran and eastwards.) Furthermore, if you go down the Red Sea then there is access to ancient sea trading routes which have existed for thousands of years--to the Indian subcontinent, through the straits of Malacca, and over to Southwest Asia and China. So, control of this vital area has been a geopolitical conditionality for all kinds of societies going way, way back into history. Resources are important, but equally as important is the relative ease (or deliberate blocking) of trade traffic of those resources and other goods. Through history, specific reasons for why this area is so contentious have changed, according to which kingdoms/countries/nations/empires were powerful. Trade is one very important element of this. Toss in religious fervor and you have a real tinderbox. Recent European and now US involvement in the area more or less are in accord with these fundamentals, but don't forget that Africa once had great empires which interacted with Egypt and Asia, and that the Egyptians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, and, with the rise of Islam, the Caliphates and European crusaders have fought over the area as well. Geography and trade being what it is--not to mention this is where the margins of different cultures meet and interact for better or worse--the middle east will always be an important and contested area of the globe. Doesn't this essentially avoid the "Middle East and Oil" question though? Traditional trade routes, ancient cradles of civilizations, etc are nothing compared to oil reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 Doesn't this essentially avoid the "Middle East and Oil" question though? Traditional trade routes, ancient cradles of civilizations, etc are nothing compared to oil reserves. Would not the word " Pipeline " equate to the modern equivalent of trade route ? Kind of like what was happening (still happening) in the Black Sea area with the pipelines crossing over what were at one point in time ancient trade routes as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Doesn't this essentially avoid the "Middle East and Oil" question though? Traditional trade routes, ancient cradles of civilizations, etc are nothing compared to oil reserves. The original question specifically stated "other than oil." And I didn't scant resources, I just emphasized the substrate. There was a time when Egyptian grain was as important as oil to the Mediterranean region. Not to suggest that currently oil is important, but historically, the level of (applied) technology matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Can someone more versed in foreign policy/relations please explain to me why we are constantly trying to "save" the middle east? Other than oil, or is that all? Sure seems like there is no peace, there has never been peace, and there will never be peace among them. What does us getting in the middle achieve besides dead soldiers and astronomical amounts of money lost? From my ignorant point of view it seems like an all or nothing approach should be adopted. We either bomb the entire country in shocking fashion killing every single person in it, or let them continue killing each other over who's great-great-great-great-great-great-great grand daddy called their god. We've tried the middle ground, failed in SPECTACULAR fashion. Thousands of lives lost, families destroyed, and trillions of dollars wasted to get right back to the exact same spot. I know that Bush wanted revenge on Sadaam and Cheney wanted Halliburton contracts but my god has this endeavor been a catastrophic failure. If anyone reading this happens to have a time machine could you go back and pop a few chads for Gore? Shit couldn't possibly have gone any worse with him. Well, the cold hard fact is the world runs on oil right now. Like it or not, our allies in Europe are VERY dependent on Middle East oil while we have our own sources and Mexico and Canada as neighbors. Its easy to say screw the Middle East but a dramatic price swing in oil would probably cause a recession in an already weak Europe which would of course, spread to us. Yeah, not what you want to hear but its reality. The religious aspect of this thing is no different than what occurred after Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic Church although the bloodshed from that didn't last for 1300 years plus. Although WAY more focus is given to the Muslim vs Jew battle, the fact is the Sunni vs Shia battle has been FAR more deadly over the years. If Israel had been formed somewhere else OTHER than Jerusalem (which is a VERY important city in Islam) the whole Arab vs Israel issue would be minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Yeah, exactly; it's a global market, so we're ultimately just as dependent on the flow of oil from the Middle East as Europe even if we get ours from the Gulf of Mexico and not the Persian one. I think the choice is either pay $5+ a gallon or get used to more Deepwater Horizon-type spills, fracking, tar sands, etc etc.. And I think that choice was already made, at least in the short term. Considering all the know-nothings denying climate change & the campaign contributions from oil companies I think it's going to take hardcore environmental collapse before there's any concerted effort to change that dynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Speechless! My jaw dropped to the floor. These fuckers are fucking cowards! No religion promotes killing innocent people no matter who they are. They are killing their own people. People like that have a special place in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Speechless! My jaw dropped to the floor. These fuckers are fucking cowards! No religion promotes killing innocent people no matter who they are. They are killing their own people. People like that have a special place in hell. Actually, apostates and heretics are fair game in some of the versions of Islam. Of course they don't consider them "innocent" so it is a license to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Actually, apostates and heretics are fair game in some of the versions of Islam. Of course they don't consider them "innocent" so it is a license to kill. To be fair, it says adulterers are to be stoned to death in the Old Testament... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 To be fair, it says adulterers are to be stoned to death in the Old Testament... Yeah, some religions progress thru the centuries, others do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Yeah, some religions progress thru the centuries, others do not. :39: Yeah, good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Europe's dependence on imported oil (and gas) is a large part of why the recent geopolitical moves in the Ukraine are happening, too. WTF? A Pennsylvania sweatshirt? (Belated) Happy Birthday modern world! (Listen to 50, 51,52. Good stuff on the events which precipitated WWI.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxnFS2UNu8I&feature=youtu.be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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