Jamie_B Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 On 11/9/2016 at 0:09 PM, Enon Bengal said: Does this mean we can get rid of the third bathroom and stop vilifying North Carolina for standing up to Washington over an absurd law? I'd like to believe this election was / is a message from the American people that we're tired of politics as usual. Van Jones was pretty quick to play the race card on CNN last night, calling the result a 'white-lash.' He's probably not entirely wrong. It might be some of both. http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/21/donald-trump-says-transgender-people-should-use-the-bathroom-they-want/?_r=0 Sorry to disappoint you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Almost as if people saw some old white dude being a brash, bigoted asshole and took that at face value because "he's not a politician". That means he's being honest, right? That billionaire Manhattan realtor & reality TV "star" that lives in a golden skyscraper with his name on the outside is definitely a regular Joe man-of-the-people with your best interests in mind. Clearly. I would say he has a bridge to sell you but you already mortgaged the entire country for it. Good job. Maybe he'll let you live under it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, T-Dub said: Almost as if people saw some old white dude being a brash, bigoted asshole and took that at face value because "he's not a politician". That means he's being honest, right? That billionaire Manhattan realtor & reality TV "star" that lives in a golden skyscraper with his name on the outside is definitely a regular Joe man-of-the-people with your best interests in mind. Clearly. I would say he has a bridge to sell you but you already mortgaged the entire country for it. Good job. Maybe he'll let you live under it. Look at the exit polls, we lost the rust belt. Not everyone who voted for Trump is a bigot, there are absolutely people who voted for him who are, and those people should be called out...as should those who voted for him knowing what he stood for and how he behaved But we lost because the Democratic party has abandoned the working class and joined the Republican party as a party of Neoliberalism and a party of pro-Globalization. We have abandoned our roots as the party of FDR in favor of selling the party on Social Issues, important issues mind you, but they are not the issues that win for us anymore. We need to get back to our roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Maybe some people thought Hillary was ten kinds of untrustworthy crook and even Trump was better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 5 hours ago, Jamie_B said: http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/21/donald-trump-says-transgender-people-should-use-the-bathroom-they-want/?_r=0 Sorry to disappoint you. http://www.inquisitr.com/3698135/mike-pence-confirms-trump-presidency-will-abolish-birth-control-mandate-and-transgender-bathroom-protection/ Changed his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 5 hours ago, Jamie_B said: Look at the exit polls, we lost the rust belt. Not everyone who voted for Trump is a bigot But they were willing to vote for one. The difference is pretty academic. This isn't the old racist uncle you have to tolerate at Thanksgiving dinner. They voted for him to represent the country. "I'm not a bigot but I supported the rise of one to power" doesn't really fly. The DNC lost this election when they colluded to deny Sanders the nomination. That alienated a huge swath of Democratic voters, particularly the younger ones. Voter turnout among registered Dems was abysmal and of those who did vote, many went 3rd party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 34 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said: http://www.inquisitr.com/3698135/mike-pence-confirms-trump-presidency-will-abolish-birth-control-mandate-and-transgender-bathroom-protection/ Changed his mind. Give him another 24 hours and he'll probably change it again. This is the man we've put at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 4 hours ago, High School Harry said: Maybe some people thought Hillary was ten kinds of untrustworthy crook and even Trump was better. I thought Hillary was absolutely corrupt, like pretty much everyone else in DC. She also didn't threaten to create a registry of all Muslims, arrest journalists or tweet other psycho crazy shit at 4 in the morning. She didn't encourage her supporters to attack protesters or get endorsed by white supremacists. I'd like an alternative to crooked oligarchy politics, too. I wasn't willing to elect one of the oligarchs, who also happened to be a frothing-at-the-mouth lunatic, to get it however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 3 hours ago, T-Dub said: But they were willing to vote for one. The difference is pretty academic. This isn't the old racist uncle you have to tolerate at Thanksgiving dinner. They voted for him to represent the country. "I'm not a bigot but I supported the rise of one to power" doesn't really fly. Absolutely and those who voted for him have to live with that. (To include those of you who did here and we know you did) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|westside bengal| Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 Exit polling results are showing that in the Rust Belt ...Hillary's supposed firewall of Ohio, Pa, Wi, and Mich...a good number of those midwestern white folks who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 voted Republican this time around. It wasn't racism, it's economics as usual. James Carville told us that in 1992. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 13 hours ago, westside bengal said: Exit polling results are showing that in the Rust Belt ...Hillary's supposed firewall of Ohio, Pa, Wi, and Mich...a good number of those midwestern white folks who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 voted Republican this time around. It wasn't racism, it's economics as usual. James Carville told us that in 1992. I've been screaming this for a long long time.... it's why Bernie was the better candidate for this election.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 The next President of the United States: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 On 11/11/2016 at 6:44 AM, Jason said: mods plz delete (this is that "board won't let me remove quote/embed" thing. usually i can highlight it & delete, not working this time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 On 11/12/2016 at 7:28 AM, westside bengal said: Exit polling results are showing that in the Rust Belt ...Hillary's supposed firewall of Ohio, Pa, Wi, and Mich...a good number of those midwestern white folks who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 voted Republican this time around. It wasn't racism, it's economics as usual. James Carville told us that in 1992. I'll meet you in the middle and say it was some of both. IDK how you can listen to all the campaign rhetoric and tell me bigotry was not an issue. Whether he was pandering or not, a rich old white dude riding a populist wave of anger & resentment into power is pretty fucking disturbing. Did anyone else catch Chappelle's SNL monologue? It's great & maybe not what you expect - I figure if he's willing to give Trump the chance to not be a complete disaster then I can, too. However I would also note that this is only the latest example of how anyone who is not a straight, white, Christian or Jew seems to me real nervous about the direction of things to come. So, dismissing the role of race etc in the interest of discussing election strategy & so on, to me, is to ignore the angry, Dixie-flag waving, bible-thumping elephant in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 "Welcome back to the Resistance, bitches." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk8DDFE8v3I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 5 hours ago, Homer_Rice said: "Welcome back to the Resistance, bitches." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk8DDFE8v3I I wonder what all those Clinton supporters you were talking to think now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 5 hours ago, Jamie_B said: I wonder what all those Clinton supporters you were talking to think now? It depends. I'd say fairly typically for those who are econ/working class types. The identity politics oriented Dems I know (who are mostly younger) are acting like babies for the most part. The irony being is that their dominance of the party is essentially the cause for the party's weaknesses. I argued time and time again that there is room for both working class and identity coalitions within the party but the identity folks--being mostly assholes--couldn't help but deride the econ faction as deplorables, etc... So, from my perspective: It's like Reagan all over again. It'll be interesting to see how policy develops in the new admin. The economy is fucked now, and is likely to be even more greatly fucked a couple of years from now. Let's see if the Sanders/Warren/Brown faction of the party can take some power now that the Clinton/Obama faction has discredited itself. That'll tell us Dem folks a lot over the upcoming short-term. BTW, I voted for Stein. Just couldn't cast a vote for the warmonger and of course, Trump was never in the equation for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 1 minute ago, Homer_Rice said: It depends. I'd say fairly typically for those who are econ/working class types. The identity politics oriented Dems I know (who are mostly younger) are acting like babies for the most part. The irony being is that their dominance of the party is essentially the cause for the party's weaknesses. I argued time and time again that there is room for both working class and identity coalitions within the party but the identity folks--being mostly assholes--couldn't help but deride the econ faction as deplorables, etc... So, from my perspective: It's like Reagan all over again. It'll be interesting to see how policy develops in the new admin. The economy is fucked now, and is likely to be even more greatly fucked a couple of years from now. Let's see if the Sanders/Warren/Brown faction of the party can take some power now that the Clinton/Obama faction has discredited itself. That'll tell us Dem folks a lot over the upcoming short-term. BTW, I voted for Stein. Just couldn't cast a vote for the warmonger and of course, Trump was never in the equation for me. I voted the same, and those you are talking about are doing exactly that, acting like babies because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 29 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: I voted the same, and those you are talking about are doing exactly that, acting like babies because of it. I don't think there is a Nader-like backlash this time around a la 2000. The problem is somewhat different, imo. I think it's kind of an ideological problem and the constraints which an ideology sort of imposes on a given world outlook. If the premises of Dem ideology is mostly identity-oriented, then a lot of analysis falls through the cracks. And ideologies being ideologies, adherents tend to reinforce the weaknesses of a particular ideology when shit goes south. Some will re-examine their premises, but many will double down to preserve their way of viewing the world. Classical negative feedback seen as positive feedback. My brief way of looking at this is as follows: We all "other"--the trick is not to be an ideological "other-fucker." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted November 14, 2016 Report Share Posted November 14, 2016 1 minute ago, Homer_Rice said: I don't think there is a Nader-like backlash this time around a la 2000. The problem is somewhat different, imo. I think it's kind of an ideological problem and the constraints which an ideology sort of imposes on a given world outlook. If the premises of Dem ideology is mostly identity-oriented, then a lot of analysis falls through the cracks. And ideologies being ideologies, adherents tend to reinforce the weaknesses of a particular ideology when shit goes south. Some will re-examine their premises, but many will double down to preserve their way of viewing the world. Classical negative feedback seen as positive feedback. My brief way of looking at this is as follows: We all "other"--the trick is not to be an ideological "other-fucker." What's ironic about it all for me is they had James "The economy, stupid" Carville to remind them what these elections are almost always about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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