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Joe's next contract


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6 hours ago, GoBengals said:

but mixon is a top tier back.

 

 

 

I used to think this too, but I don’t think he is anymore.  It’s ridiculous how bad he is in pass pro, he’s not particularly quick and he doesn’t have great vision.  His best attributes are ball security and he finishes runs well.  We’d be much better served having someone with better acceleration who can get outside once in a while and/or someone who at least gets what’s there vs missing the hole or not even getting there.  I love Mix’s energy and passion, but as soon as his contract isn’t a detriment to the cap, it’s time to move on.

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10 hours ago, stryker57 said:

if he does it now , he'll get the signing bonus and then be taken up from 9 mil to the new wage,  and 150 mil i just threw out there '''

 

so make it 40 mil/year for 5 years then. ,

but if he wants to keep the team together then he wont go 50 mil a year, if thats what he wants (and he's worth it) then he'll be playing on a 9 mil in 23 and the option year in '24 . so sign for less now  would actually pay him sooner.   the bengals would be smart to pay him less and let him wait, IMO if he wants more then sign sooner for less , but he'll make alot more sooner.  my point is he can make 9  mil +15 mil in the next 2 years total of 24-25 mil (i dont know the option year amount)  or he could sign for 40 mil/year and make  80 mil in the same time period,  

Yep, if he does it now, he'll take less money for the next 2 yrs 'cause the Bengals would be buying out those "cheap" years on his existing contract, so the per yr money won't look as impressive but it's still a good deal for both sides. It also gives the team lots of ways to deal with it salary cap wise

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The Joe Mixon cut talk is nonsense, the guy has too much dead money. I'd also love to actually watch the games with some of you because you all see holes that the Oline is opening up that I do not see, because on the rare occasions holes are there he's getting to them. I honestly believe alot of the problem is having to run from shotgun as opposed to behind center, it gives time to the defense to see the run coming and close those "holes", and because the line is so bad we can't exactly run from under center.  I get it's not sexy to put it on the Oline because the sexy answer is Joe needs to overpower 300 pound lineman with stiff arms but that's silly. The only thing I will give to the Mixon needs to go folks is that he is mediocre at pass blocking. Bottom line is the Oline has alot to be desired still but yes Mixon isn't very good at pass blocking.

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38 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

The Joe Mixon cut talk is nonsense, the guy has too much dead money. I'd also love to actually watch the games with some of you because you all see holes that the Oline is opening up that I do not see, because on the rare occasions holes are there he's getting to them. I honestly believe alot of the problem is having to run from shotgun as opposed to behind center, it gives time to the defense to see the run coming and close those "holes", and because the line is so bad we can't exactly run from under center.  I get it's not sexy to put it on the Oline because the sexy answer is Joe needs to overpower 300 pound lineman with stiff arms but that's silly. The only thing I will give to the Mixon needs to go folks is that he is mediocre at pass blocking. Bottom line is the Oline has alot to be desired still but yes Mixon isn't very good at pass blocking.

 

 

Is 5.5M dead cap too much?  Wouldn't that open up $7.35MM in cap room ($12.85M salary - $5.5M dead cap)?

 

image.png.eff580d1131519800a9feff64907f2d8.png

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

The Joe Mixon cut talk is nonsense, the guy has too much dead money. I'd also love to actually watch the games with some of you because you all see holes that the Oline is opening up that I do not see, because on the rare occasions holes are there he's getting to them. I honestly believe alot of the problem is having to run from shotgun as opposed to behind center, it gives time to the defense to see the run coming and close those "holes", and because the line is so bad we can't exactly run from under center.  I get it's not sexy to put it on the Oline because the sexy answer is Joe needs to overpower 300 pound lineman with stiff arms but that's silly. The only thing I will give to the Mixon needs to go folks is that he is mediocre at pass blocking. Bottom line is the Oline has alot to be desired still but yes Mixon isn't very good at pass blocking.

 

I think Perine showed there are opportunities when Mixon was out.  On TV we can't see the holes, but when one RB seems to get positive yards and the other doesn't...it's telling.  Mixon really struggled in the beginning of the season breaking tackles and making people miss too.  He's gotten a little better there, but he's still not great...I'm talking about vs LBs and DBs.  At this point, it seems to me Joe is a below average back.  Yes, the Oline is bad, but put a less than back behind them and it looks disastrous.  

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1 minute ago, WRAPradio said:

 

 

Is 5.5M dead cap too much?  Wouldn't that open up $7.35MM in cap room ($12.85M salary - $5.5M dead cap)?

 

image.png.eff580d1131519800a9feff64907f2d8.png

 

 

 

 

5.5 too much, for the Bengals? yes

Also it's the same reason why Williams is the starting left tackle next year. I believe he gets that much in his 5th year option as well. (Or at least close)

 

I would argue we need a CB and another tackle before we need a starting RB, as Cheeto is in a contract year next year and will be too expensive to keep and well Collins is horrible.

 

We will draft a RB if only because Perine is in a contract year, but it wont be early. 

 

2 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

 

I think Perine showed there are opportunities when Mixon was out.  On TV we can't see the holes, but when one RB seems to get positive yards and the other doesn't...it's telling.  Mixon really struggled in the beginning of the season breaking tackles and making people miss too.  He's gotten a little better there, but he's still not great...I'm talking about vs LBs and DBs.  At this point, it seems to me Joe is a below average back.  Yes, the Oline is bad, but put a less than back behind them and it looks disastrous.  

 

I don't have a problem with people who prefer Perine's running style, but the fact is when the holes are not there Perine is not exactly doing things Mixon hasn't been able to do. Is he a better run blocker? 100% yes no argument there, but he's not exactly breaking tackles or that Joe isnt, and he is for sure not making people miss. Does he have a sweet stiff arm? Sure, but he's not Derrick Henry, and he hasn't done anything given the competition that Mixon hasn't been able to do, except pass protection, that I will give you.

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It is an interesting discussion and I am sure they have the same one in the Bengals office. When you look at the offense down the road a year or two, if the plan is to keep all of JB, Chase plus Tee AND still have solid (but no superstar) OL to protect Joe - then you can't really put a lot of money into the slot receiver, TE or RB's. Have to pick up guys or draft guys. We could probably pick up a RB in FA who could share the load with Perine and Evans and/or mid round draft pick. 

 

Hopefully, we will see more offensive players who will want to play here for less because they want to play with JB. 

 

I think cutting Mixon is a real possibility, they could re-do his contract like many teams do but the Bengals have never gone that route to kick the cap down the road. Then again, we have seem them do a few things in the last year or two they have never done before. If the cap is going to be $288M in 2-3 years time we could re-do Mixons deal and convert salary to signing bonus. 

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12 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

It is an interesting discussion and I am sure they have the same one in the Bengals office. When you look at the offense down the road a year or two, if the plan is to keep all of JB, Chase plus Tee AND still have solid (but no superstar) OL to protect Joe - then you can't really put a lot of money into the slot receiver, TE or RB's. Have to pick up guys or draft guys. We could probably pick up a RB in FA who could share the load with Perine and Evans and/or mid round draft pick. 

 

Hopefully, we will see more offensive players who will want to play here for less because they want to play with JB. 

 

I think cutting Mixon is a real possibility, they could re-do his contract like many teams do but the Bengals have never gone that route to kick the cap down the road. Then again, we have seem them do a few things in the last year or two they have never done before. If the cap is going to be $288M in 2-3 years time we could re-do Mixons deal and convert salary to signing bonus. 

 

 

Mixon isnt going anywhere.

 

I do wonder if Boyd would take a hometown 3rd contract to stay. I'm of the opinion that we're going to need to draft at least 1 Olinemen somewhat early for the next 3 years just due to the fact that Collins sucks and the guys we just singed are signed for 2-3 years.

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2 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

5.5 too much, for the Bengals? yes

Also it's the same reason why Williams is the starting left tackle next year. I believe he gets that much in his 5th year option as well. (Or at least close)

 

I would argue we need a CB and another tackle before we need a starting RB, as Cheeto is in a contract year next year and will be too expensive to keep and well Collins is horrible.

 

We will draft a RB if only because Perine is in a contract year, but it wont be early. 

 

 

I don't have a problem with people who prefer Perine's running style, but the fact is when the holes are not there Perine is not exactly doing things Mixon hasn't been able to do. Is he a better run blocker? 100% yes no argument there, but he's not exactly breaking tackles or that Joe isnt, and he is for sure not making people miss. Does he have a sweet stiff arm? Sure, but he's not Derrick Henry, and he hasn't done anything given the competition that Mixon hasn't been able to do, except pass protection, that I will give you.

 

I agree, both backs are below average IMO.  I think my point is, you can draft/sign better RBs for cheap.  I think a lot of people (not necessarily you) see the name Joe Mixon and assume he's Oklahoma Joe (great BBQ spot).  He's not at this point in his career.  I'm not sure if he's on the decline, but he's certainly not ascending at this point.  If we had an average back, I think that would unlock this offense even with the deficiencies on the line and you can find one of those in FA or the draft.  We lack speed and quickness in the backfield...really the whole offense lacks speed and quickness, but that's another conversation.  

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1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

Mixon isnt going anywhere.

 

I do wonder if Boyd would take a hometown 3rd contract to stay. I'm of the opinion that we're going to need to draft at least 1 Olinemen somewhat early for the next 3 years just due to the fact that Collins sucks and the guys we just singed are signed for 2-3 years.

Given the shortage of quality OL in the league (and I know our lack of success in drafting them has hurt) we should be drafting at least one every year. You can't have enough (as we once again witness) and the shortage makes the really good ones very highly priced. 

 

As for Mixon, I think when a team has large contracts to take on, which we do, you have to look at every other contract on the roster and ask if the contract value matches or exceeds the player value. We have cut players and swallowed cap before (Geno?)

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1 hour ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

It is an interesting discussion and I am sure they have the same one in the Bengals office. When you look at the offense down the road a year or two, if the plan is to keep all of JB, Chase plus Tee AND still have solid (but no superstar) OL to protect Joe - then you can't really put a lot of money into the slot receiver, TE or RB's. Have to pick up guys or draft guys. We could probably pick up a RB in FA who could share the load with Perine and Evans and/or mid round draft pick. 

 

Hopefully, we will see more offensive players who will want to play here for less because they want to play with JB. 

 

I think cutting Mixon is a real possibility, they could re-do his contract like many teams do but the Bengals have never gone that route to kick the cap down the road. Then again, we have seem them do a few things in the last year or two they have never done before. If the cap is going to be $288M in 2-3 years time we could re-do Mixons deal and convert salary to signing bonus. 

 

To re-sign the big 3, I don't think you can put a ton of $$ on the defensive side of the ball either which is unfortunate.  I think  you have to have defensive heavy drafts and keep the D fast, smart and disciplined.  

 

image.png.67337fc0e74760d75ea3c22325c363e3.png

 

I don't think these are too accurate (see Tre Flowers), but if Ja'marr and Tee are calculated to get 45M combined, that's a whole lot of green.   I thought it was interesting seeing what they think Burrow will command:

 

image.png.d81a3994980a8f35e83796dc676f8abc.png

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18 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

 

I agree, both backs are below average IMO.  I think my point is, you can draft/sign better RBs for cheap.  I think a lot of people (not necessarily you) see the name Joe Mixon and assume he's Oklahoma Joe (great BBQ spot).  He's not at this point in his career.  I'm not sure if he's on the decline, but he's certainly not ascending at this point.  If we had an average back, I think that would unlock this offense even with the deficiencies on the line and you can find one of those in FA or the draft.  We lack speed and quickness in the backfield...really the whole offense lacks speed and quickness, but that's another conversation.  

 

I think we have bigger needs over the immediate future that dictate Mixon sticking around for at least another year. I also believe if we can get at least one good road grader right tackle in the draft it would go FAR to fixing some of our running game problems.

My WAY too early guys I want right now are Christian Gonzolez the Cb out of Oregon and Darnell Write out of Tenn

 

After T and CB we can talk RB because Perine is in a contract year.

 

12 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Given the shortage of quality OL in the league (and I know our lack of success in drafting them has hurt) we should be drafting at least one every year. You can't have enough (as we once again witness) and the shortage makes the really good ones very highly priced. 

 

Completely agree, in fact over the next 3 years I'd like to take a guy in the top 3 picks, then after that star finding better backups. Almost treat the Oline like we used to treat WRs and take one each year.

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Keep in mind we are going to start having som ebig contract guys like Reader/Hendrickson/Hubbard come off their big deals that we will be able to use on other guys. 

 

The biggest question mark for me is now that we are picking towards the bottom of the draft, will we do as well at getting talent?

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10 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

I think we have bigger needs over the immediate future that dictate Mixon sticking around for at least another year. I also believe if we can get at least one good road grader right tackle in the draft it would go FAR to fixing some of our running game problems.

My WAY too early guys I want right now are Christian Gonzolez the Cb out of Oregon and Darnell Write out of Tenn

 

After T and CB we can talk RB because Perine is in a contract year.

 

 

Completely agree, in fact over the next 3 years I'd like to take a guy in the top 3 picks, then after that star finding better backups. Almost treat the Oline like we used to treat WRs and take one each year.

 

I agree, RB is lower on the list of needs for this team.  I haven't started looking at the college guys yet...these playoff runs are cutting into my armchair scouting time.  

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Just now, WRAPradio said:

 

I agree, RB is lower on the list of needs for this team.  I haven't started looking at the college guys yet...these playoff runs are cutting into my armchair scouting time.  

 

I've only lightly touched it

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10 minutes ago, BlackJesus said:

Mike Brown has said he wants to keep the trio of Burrow, Chase, and Tee together. 

 

Everybody else is negotiable except those 3, which he will retain (as he ultimately decides). 

He is in his glory - he has his 'cow bell' QB and his 'race horse' WR's (I think ML called them that. 

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4 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

The Joe Mixon cut talk is nonsense, the guy has too much dead money. I'd also love to actually watch the games with some of you because you all see holes that the Oline is opening up that I do not see, because on the rare occasions holes are there he's getting to them. I honestly believe alot of the problem is having to run from shotgun as opposed to behind center, it gives time to the defense to see the run coming and close those "holes", and because the line is so bad we can't exactly run from under center.  I get it's not sexy to put it on the Oline because the sexy answer is Joe needs to overpower 300 pound lineman with stiff arms but that's silly. The only thing I will give to the Mixon needs to go folks is that he is mediocre at pass blocking. Bottom line is the Oline has alot to be desired still but yes Mixon isn't very good at pass blocking.

Well said...

 

Agree that the Oline sucka at both pass and run ability..

Some would find fault with Chubb or Jacobs behind this oline..

 

Mixon has become more versatile in the offense with his receiveing totals.

 

One other thing to notice..

We Know Burrow is great bur what kind of numbers would he have with a good Oline?

Could only imagine..

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, claptonrocks said:

Well said...

 

Agree that the Oline sucka at both pass and run ability..

Some would find fault with Chubb or Jacobs behind this oline..

 

Mixon has become more versatile in the offense with his receiveing totals..

 

 

 

 

 

I do wonder how much of the shotgun stuff is because of Joe liking it to see the whole field, I know that's why he likes empty set. If we can fix the line Joe will need to get better at recognizing stuff from under center.

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Just now, Jamie_B said:

 

 

I do wonder how much of the shotgun stuff is because of Joe liking it to see the whole field, I know that's why he likes empty set. If we can fix the line Joe will need to get better at recognizing stuff from under center.

I would imagine the entire offense is what JB likes. So if we dont see a lot of rollouts, it may very well be as much about JB as it is OL restrictions. 

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1 minute ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

I do wonder how much of the shotgun stuff is because of Joe liking it to see the whole field, I know that's why he likes empty set. If we can fix the line Joe will need to get better at recognizing stuff from under center.

Fix the line yes..

They're trying but with both tackles banged up where do you start next year??

 

 

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1 minute ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

I would imagine the entire offense is what JB likes. So if we dont see a lot of rollouts, it may very well be as much about JB as it is OL restrictions. 

 

Not so sure I agree, we were trying to run alot under center early in the year and it wasnt working, they had to adjust.

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9 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Fix the line yes..

They're trying but with both tackles banged up where do you start next year??

 

 

 

 

Left tackle imho is the 2nd hardest position to find a good one after QB. I think right tackle may be easier. 

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13 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

Left tackle imho is the 2nd hardest position to find a good one after QB. I think right tackle may be easier. 

Yes blindside tackle first up..

Jonah has struggled most of the year with his kneecap.

Collins has had the back issues .

 

Hate to think those two are our starters next season with health concerns..

 

Maybe they both heal up and be productive but its still a major concern imo..

 

 

 

 

 

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