whodey365 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Seems like he's just a guy out there. I think the Bengals could get the same production from Clarke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 11 hours ago, SocalBengalEd said: N almost did nothing. Anyone that plays 500 plays a year can get 4 sacks by accident. I realize that anyone is allowed to say anything they want on a message board, but I won't let people just make up stuff out of thin air and claim it is true. 51 DEs played over 500 snaps last year and many of them did not get as many sacks, hurries, tipped passes, stuffs, or tackles as Michael Johnson. Johnson ranked in the top 30 in all of those stats except sacks. This reminds me of back in the day when so many Bengal fans claimed Justin Smith was garbage because they did not know any way to judge a DE except by sack numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoore Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 He made some of the most un-athletic moves I've seen in his career this season. He has no bend as a pass rusher and seems like just a warm body out there in all other aspects. Time for him, Peko, Maualuga and Dansby to start packing.Peko needs to come back. At vet minimum with 50/50 share with Billings at least for half season. Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoore Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 If Johnson stays he should be used in a situational role, limit his snaps and maybe his production will improve. I know people that know him and they say he's a really good guy off the field, he's a guy you want to keep around...if he's productive. With the increase in the salary cap and the Bengals current situation, I don't think you have to cut him for cap reasons so I would keep him around in a back up role and draft a young stud at #9 to get after the QB in pass rush situations. Rather have Walker in second he's better draft Williams at 9Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoore Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Johnson is an 8 year vet. That's pretty old in NFL years. If you just look at statistics Johnson is still who he has always been. He had a couple strong years, but usually gets from 3-5 sacks a year. Still, 30 year old defensive linemen that were never dominant in the first place should be looking over their shoulder. Comparing anyone to Harrison is just inappropriate. Crazy he is still playing and effective.If ur gonna say that I agree Johnson should go and we draft a DE in second but Dunlap and Atkins are almost 30 as well.Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalBengalEd Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 On 1/10/2017 at 6:13 AM, fredtoast said: I realize that anyone is allowed to say anything they want on a message board, but I won't let people just make up stuff out of thin air and claim it is true. 51 DEs played over 500 snaps last year and many of them did not get as many sacks, hurries, tipped passes, stuffs, or tackles as Michael Johnson. Johnson ranked in the top 30 in all of those stats except sacks. This reminds me of back in the day when so many Bengal fans claimed Justin Smith was garbage because they did not know any way to judge a DE except by sack numbers. No one but you believes Michael Johnson is above average or even average. He had 3 batted balls all year and 3.5 sacks. Are you kidding me. Those are horrible numbers. Terrible. He had zero impact what so ever. . He's garbage. Tampa cuts him and the Bengals sign him back up. Ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 3 hours ago, SocalBengalEd said: No one but you believes Michael Johnson is above average or even average. He had 3 batted balls all year and 3.5 sacks. Are you kidding me. Those are horrible numbers. Terrible. He had zero impact what so ever. . He's garbage. Tampa cuts him and the Bengals sign him back up. Ridiculous I don't think he is garbage but I don't think he is anything more than average either. What I do know is he is the least of our problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 13 hours ago, Jpoore said: If ur gonna say that I agree Johnson should go and we draft a DE in second but Dunlap and Atkins are almost 30 as well. Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app Dunlap and Atkins perform at an entirely different level. They can drop off a bit and still be good. Johnson? I agree RDE isn't the top priority of the team, but it does need to be addressed. If a good prospect drops in their lap after the first round they should seriously consider pulling the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoore Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Yeah I do agree they need to start the rebuild of the line. Probably need to get a lde in 3 years. As far as rde I'm in love with demarcus Walker out of fsu who is a late first early second projection. He can also switch inside on obvious passing downs.Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 And no, it's not the "Bengal Way". It's just being logical. If all players who were not "great" were cut, there would not be 22 players on the field. Solid, steady, dependable players are the norm, not the derided exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 On 1/15/2017 at 5:19 AM, SocalBengalEd said: He had 3 batted balls all year and 3.5 sacks. Are you kidding me. Those are horrible numbers. Terrible. You know how many DEs in the league had both more PDs (4) and more sacks (4)? Only five. I am not claiming he is a star. I am just pointing out that when you really compare his production to all the other DEs in the league he is ranked right about where his salary will fall this year. That is probably 30 to 35 in the league. You can call him an "average" starter, but the fact is that he is more productive than a lot of other starers in the league. Those "average" staters are not that easy to find. I'd like to add a smaller edge rusher to play in a rotation with MJ. Every down 4-3 DEs that can stuff the run and rush the passer are among the most expensive players in the league. They are a first round pick position like QB, LT, and CB. I'd love to add another one of those type DEs with our #9 pick, but if we don't it will still be possible to find a smaller, faster edge rush specialist in the 2nd-4th rounds. We were damn lucky to get Dunlap in the middle of the second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Michael Johnson's alright. He's not putting the fear of God into anyone, but he's alright.Upgrading that position is possible, but it's going to take an early pick or a top shelf free agent (hehe).Even if the Bengals do that, Johnson's still going to be, at worst, the third best DE on this team.Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningpoint Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 On 1/10/2017 at 9:13 AM, whodey365 said: Seems like he's just a guy out there. I think the Bengals could get the same production from Clarke. Agreed, i think he should be cut or agree to a paycut, but it's the bengals they will honor his contract, because it's the bengal way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, turningpoint said: Agreed, i think he should be cut or agree to a paycut, but it's the bengals they will honor his contract, because it's the bengal way. Why in the world would he bagree to a pay cut when his production is right in line with what he id getting paid? His contract this year will probably make him the 30th to 35th highest paid DE, and his production matches that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningpoint Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, fredtoast said: Why in the world would he bagree to a pay cut when his production is right in line with what he id getting paid? His contract this year will probably make him the 30th to 35th highest paid DE, and his production matches that. Because i think Clark can do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 21 minutes ago, turningpoint said: Because i think Clark can do the same. I don't want to bash Clarke. He had a higher sack rate than Johnson. But when you project Clarke's production to the number of snaps Johnson played Michael out produces him in total tackles, solo tackles, stuffs, QB hurries, and tipped passes. And that is assuming Clark does not wear down some from playing over twice as many snaps (831 to 373). Johnson is not as easy to replace as you think. Even if you start Clarke in front of Johnson a $5.1 million contract is not crippling the team. I don't think you could replace a player of MJ's level in free agency for less money. MJ could back up both end positions and still see 50% of the snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, fredtoast said: I don't want to bash Clarke. He had a higher sack rate than Johnson. But when you project Clarke's production to the number of snaps Johnson played Michael out produces him in total tackles, solo tackles, stuffs, QB hurries, and tipped passes. And that is assuming Clark does not wear down some from playing over twice as many snaps (831 to 373). Johnson is not as easy to replace as you think. Even if you start Clarke in front of Johnson a $5.1 million contract is not crippling the team. I don't think you could replace a player of MJ's level in free agency for less money. MJ could back up both end positions and still see 50% of the snaps. Can't even consider it less money than 5.1 million because 2.25 of that is dead if we cut him. We would have to essentially get a player of his caliber for less than 2.875 Million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said: Can't even consider it less money than 5.1 million because 2.25 of that is dead if we cut him. We would have to essentially get a player of his caliber for less than 2.875 Million. Yep, you are 100% correst. If we could even get a substantially better player for 5.1 + 2.25 that would be great. That player isn't available. MJ is being paid pretty close to what he is worth. We should be discussing Linebackers, not MJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningpoint Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Ok so onto the next subject, becuase it's pretty obvious we should keep him next season even as the starter,but possibly give clarke some more opportunity's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarpenter62 Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 My thoughts... If he is not cut (which obviously this teams doesn't know is an option), he should play on 1st and 2nd down and stand his ass on the sidelines on pass rush situations. On a related note... I cannot believe I'm reading that they want to resign Peko. Even if you ultimately want him back... I wouldn't waste 15 minutes on him until way down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 7 hours ago, turningpoint said: Ok so onto the next subject, becuase it's pretty obvious we should keep him next season even as the starter,but possibly give clarke some more opportunity's. That's fine. The reality is the going rate for an average DE in FA is about 5 mil a year. Unless we plan on drafting a better one or over spending on the best one in FA (LOL) I don't see MJ leaving anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalBengalEd Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 PFF gave michael Johnson a horrible grade of 41.4 for the year . One of the worst for a starting defensive player but some of you Bengal apologist will say he's a great bargain at 5 million a year. That's the problem with this organization. Being content with subpar players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoore Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 My thoughts... If he is not cut (which obviously this teams doesn't know is an option), he should play on 1st and 2nd down and stand his ass on the sidelines on pass rush situations. On a related note... I cannot believe I'm reading that they want to resign Peko. Even if you ultimately want him back... I wouldn't waste 15 minutes on him until way down the road.Reality is he's solid player had a down year Billings should be an all star next to geno but peko would be a good backup. I expect a 50/50 split beginning of season about mid season more like 70/30Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoore Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 PFF gave michael Johnson a horrible grade of 41.4 for the year . One of the worst for a starting defensive player but some of you Bengal apologist will say he's a great bargain at 5 million a year. That's the problem with this organization. Being content with subpar players. If we're going off of pff Whit was rated 19th on run blocking point being can't trust pff. I think we Address rde in round 2 though so point is moot.Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 3 hours ago, SocalBengalEd said: PFF gave michael Johnson a horrible grade of 41.4 for the year . One of the worst for a starting defensive player but some of you Bengal apologist will say he's a great bargain at 5 million a year. That's the problem with this organization. Being content with subpar players. Nobody said he was a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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