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How Will Hillary's Bosnia "Whopper" Play in the Media?

Montana Bengal

By Montana Bengal
in JESUS & DRUMPF

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ScarletKnight Pro Bowler

ScarletKnight

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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='646298' date='Mar 26 2008, 09:56 AM']You obviously missed backer's joke. She used to go on and on when her husband was running about the "vast right wing conspiricy".


And no a strong woman isnt concidered a bitch, but one that doesnt carry one's self with a little bit of class is (not a reference to hillary just bitches in general) but that's no different than a guy who doesnt carry himself with class being an asshole (or as I like to call him BengalsOwn).

Also John McCain isnt a conservative.[/quote]

John McCain is WACK and I will not back that up with any educated response.

Yeah I did not get it at all and thats why I was at a loss.

As far as what you mention, strong women are often stigmatized as bitches. Women whom are assertive and authoritavtive often get slack for having "something up their ass" while men of the same seed are just bosses or leaders. There is definately (even if only subconsciously for some) a difference in the way we see peoples actions based on their gender even if they are doing exactly the same thing. Research today shows still that there is "women's work" and "men's work" and "women's space" and "men's space." It would be naive to think we are far beyond that. Perhaps poltically men and women are equal and there is supposed to be nothing holding the two as different, but society and social constructs are much different.

You may not think of a strong woman as a bitch, but that doesn't mean to everyone else she isn't. I have even had to retrain myself to not put stereotypical thoughts about different groups of people in my head. Your schemas or automatic reactions and connections you make in your head are done unconsciously to make shortcuts, and what that means is that you make stereotypical connections in your head based on your experiences with the world. In other words, everyone has biases. Infact, the first things we are taught as children are the relations between boys and girls. Gender Schemas are particularly hard ones to re-wire.

Have you ever taken that implicit association test? It tests your automatic subconscious reactions. Its great.
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ScarletKnight Pro Bowler

ScarletKnight

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[quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='646295' date='Mar 26 2008, 09:49 AM']This isn't media hype AT ALL. She just straight up lied, I don't understand how you can possibly try to spin this into something less than that.[/quote]

Straight up lied? She said she made a mistake...they DID fly into a conflict area, there WAS gunfire in the hills. She said she ran straight to the car but didn't, she took 2 minutes to greet the people of the country. Get a grip on reality here, there's more important things to be worrying about.

Obama has plagerized, has supported a reverend who has said some racists remarks...and yet most everyone says thats ok. So why in the world should I not excuse her behavior? Seriously 12 years ago I watched the movie Bambi and cried 3 times after the movie....opps oh shit they have a tape of me crying 4 times, CASTRATE ME

GET REAL
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Jamie_B Hall Of Fame

Jamie_B

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[quote name='ScarletKnight' post='646311' date='Mar 26 2008, 10:23 AM']John McCain is WACK and I will not back that up with any educated response.

Yeah I did not get it at all and thats why I was at a loss.

As far as what you mention, strong women are often stigmatized as bitches. Women whom are assertive and authoritavtive often get slack for having "something up their ass" while men of the same seed are just bosses or leaders. There is definately (even if only subconsciously for some) a difference in the way we see peoples actions based on their gender even if they are doing exactly the same thing. Research today shows still that there is "women's work" and "men's work" and "women's space" and "men's space." It would be naive to think we are far beyond that. Perhaps poltically men and women are equal and there is supposed to be nothing holding the two as different, but society and social constructs are much different.

You may not think of a strong woman as a bitch, but that doesn't mean to everyone else she isn't. I have even had to retrain myself to not put stereotypical thoughts about different groups of people in my head. Your schemas or automatic reactions and connections you make in your head are done unconsciously to make shortcuts, and what that means is that you make stereotypical connections in your head based on your experiences with the world. In other words, everyone has biases. Infact, the first things we are taught as children are the relations between boys and girls. Gender Schemas are particularly hard ones to re-wire.

Have you ever taken that implicit association test? It tests your automatic subconscious reactions. Its great.[/quote]



Of course everyone has biases (you've been showing that in your unwaivering support of her), but that doesnt mean that everyone is incapeable of looking past those biases either. My lack of support has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her vote on Iran.
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ScarletKnight Pro Bowler

ScarletKnight

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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='646319' date='Mar 26 2008, 10:45 AM']Of course everyone has biases (you've been showing that in your unwaivering support of her), but that doesnt mean that everyone is incapeable of looking past those biases either. My lack of support has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her vote on Iran.[/quote]


[quote name='Jamie_B' post='646319' date='Mar 26 2008, 10:45 AM']Of course everyone has biases (you've been showing that in your unwaivering support of her), but that doesnt mean that everyone is incapeable of looking past those biases either. My lack of support has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her vote on Iran.[/quote]

Perhaps you are misinterpreting my posts. I am not personally attacking you, I am not saying that people can't over come their biases, nor am I saying that people do not have legitimate reasons for not supporting Hillary Clinton.

In fact, in my last post I was not referring to Hillary Clinton, but rather talking of women leaders in general. The truth of the matter is that whether or not people can overcome their biases or not, not everyone has and not everyone will. Tons of research has been done that shows that biases toward women and what women's place is continues. Research shows that women in the public undergo scrutiny for things in which their fellow male counter parts would not. When Nancy Pelosi became speaker of the house there was a huge joke among the republican party about how she looked like a man (a specific man but I can't recall his name) and she was called a bitch several times, openly in public, only for those who did say such things to receive no repercussions.

We can say we see the same thing with Hillary's case, as she is called a cunt, a bitch, a slut, a number of words used only against women. You can argue that these words mean the same for men, but I argue that evidence on this board even shows this is not true. Who is it that is called the bitch? Who is it on this very board called the cunt? The female candidate. I have not seen (and correct me if I am wrong) posts calling Barrack Obama a bitch, or a cunt,ect. Nor have I seen McCain be attacked in such a way.

With that said this is telling of something happing that is more broad than you tend to think. What you see as people not being biased is not true. Research shows that people are biased, especially in the case of women and women's leadership. I am specifically doing my thesis on women's leadership, conducting my own research, reading numerous scholarly articles, books, ect. And I can tell you that all fingers point in the direction of what I said above. But do not take my word for it, there has been research done in the departments of economics, political science, sociology, women's and gender studies, history, and a number of others that say the same, you need only seek this information out.

I have spoke with numerous political women in NJ from senators to commissioners and beyond. What they tell me is that not everything is equal. I have heard personally, many a time, that they themselves have to watch being authoritative or forceful because they will get a name and that name is "bitch." I will not go into this too much further, but to push these facts aside is naive. There is a clear bias that women face, whether or not certain people decide to look passed these is a different story. The fact of the matter is that in this country there is something going on and it simply can't be explained away because some people are not biased and some people can over come that.

I'm done with making my point. But my very first post saying that we wouldn't want a strong woman because she would be deemed a bitch, I would say is a very true statement. Of course you must also realize that this generalization doesn't explain every instance, every this and every that, but it does explain the over all reality of what happens daily.

Hillary Clinton, bad candidate or not, must also grapple with this.

Anyway, I do not mean to highjack the thread so continue with the previous topic.
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Homer_Rice Hall Of Fame

Homer_Rice

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[quote name='ScarletKnight' post='646355' date='Mar 26 2008, 01:52 PM']In fact, in my last post I was not referring to Hillary Clinton, but rather talking of women leaders in general.[/quote]
You are absolutely right, Scarlet. My experience bears this out, too. Men have a problem with a woman in authority. Perhaps it is the men who ought to be self-aware and tread lightly, too. That said, there has been a lot of progress on this front since the 60s. Not sure if it will ever go away either, as much of the problem is subliminally wrapped up in psychological hangups. We'd have to do a much better job of turning adolescents into real adults, between their ears. (Applies to gals, too, in its own way.)
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Bengals1181 Hall Of Fame

Bengals1181

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[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='646377' date='Mar 26 2008, 02:44 PM']You are absolutely right, Scarlet. My experience bears this out, too. Men have a problem with a woman in authority. Perhaps it is the men who ought to be self-aware and tread lightly, too. That said, there has been a lot of progress on this front since the 60s. Not sure if it will ever go away either, as much of the problem is subliminally wrapped up in psychological hangups. We'd have to do a much better job of turning adolescents into real adults, between their ears. (Applies to gals, too, in its own way.)[/quote]


I'm not opposed to a woman president, I'm opposed to Hillary as president.
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Homer_Rice Hall Of Fame

Homer_Rice

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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='646380' date='Mar 26 2008, 03:02 PM']I'm not opposed to a woman president, I'm opposed to Hillary as president.[/quote]
That's fine. I'm not enamoured of any of them. I'm voting for her only because my candidate is out and of the three, it's my opinion she's capable of doing the best job. YMMV.
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Tigers Johnson Hall Of Fame

|Tigers Johnson|

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[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='646377' date='Mar 26 2008, 01:44 PM']You are absolutely right, Scarlet. My experience bears this out, too. Men have a problem with a woman in authority. Perhaps it is the men who ought to be self-aware and tread lightly, too. That said, there has been a lot of progress on this front since the 60s. Not sure if it will ever go away either, as much of the problem is subliminally wrapped up in psychological hangups. We'd have to do a much better job of turning adolescents into real adults, between their ears. (Applies to gals, too, in its own way.)[/quote]

While I agree that some men have a problem with a woman in authority, I also think there are great deal of men and women who have a problem with anyone in authority.

I have no problem with a woman or a man as a boss/leader as long as they do not use their authority in a condescending manner....If they do, that is when I will consider them a bitch/dickhead whichever the case may be.
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