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Is the bailout failing already?

CTBengalsFan

By CTBengalsFan
in JESUS & DRUMPF

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Elflocko Hall Of Fame

|Elflocko|

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[quote name='sois' post='722007' date='Nov 6 2008, 11:57 AM']In Nevada, the Rep who voted for bailout (Jon Porter) was ousted.
The Rep who voted against bailout (Dean Heller) was re-elected.

Nevada is smart.[/quote]


Yeah, but we also replaced him with Deana Titus... :nasty:
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steggyD Hall Of Fame

steggyD

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[url="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=apx7XNLnZZlc&refer=home"]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home[/url]

Where's our tax money going?

[quote]“If they told us what they held, we would know the potential losses that the government may take and that’s what they don’t want us to know,” said Carlos Mendez, a senior managing director at New York-based ICP Capital LLC, which oversees $22 billion in assets.[/quote]
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Bunghole Hall Of Fame

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[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='733876' date='Dec 20 2008, 07:05 PM']Just where does money come from?

In the US, it's the faith and credit of the US government. That's the principle being abused. Greatest financial crime in human history.[/quote]
If so many people like yourself recognize it, why don't people/politicians do more about it? Why adhere to a concept that doesn't work? Political expediency and short-term gain? Is that really all it is, everyone is in everyone else's pocket? Just greed? Really?

Homer, I believe the well thought-out posts you make regarding the economy in this country, and I hope you know that while I've never met you in person, I think you display intellectual honesty, which is about as much credence as one can have on an anonymous Bengals messageboard!

:lol:

Anyway, I suppose I am asking why the clinging to an economic model that isn't working per your description? Can it really just be that our leaders are that short-sighted, malicious, greedy, self-serving or incompetent? Or is there a systemic cause ( I know you've explained some of this re: the changing to the federal reserve note, but that can't handwave away everything that's happening now) that people in power fail to recognize?

I am simply wondering if it is in fact a completely broken system, or if our elected officials are really such a beholden lot, or heck, BOTH! Or more!

I am sick to my stomach that so many are out of work and it appears that there are many variables in play in this FUBAR episode. Has ANYTHING the govt done to address this given you any sense of hope? At all?

Also, what is your take on this current crises vis a vis other global issues like wars, unrest, etc?

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Elflocko Hall Of Fame

|Elflocko|

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[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='733876' date='Dec 20 2008, 07:05 PM']Just where does money come from?

In the US, it's the faith and credit of the US government. That's the principle being abused. Greatest financial crime in human history.[/quote]


Exactly my point.


We've got some napkins in the pantry worth more than our currency... :glare:

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Homer_Rice Hall Of Fame

Homer_Rice

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[quote name='Bunghole' post='733878' date='Dec 20 2008, 08:16 PM']If so many people like yourself recognize it, why don't people/politicians do more about it? Why adhere to a concept that doesn't work? Political expediency and short-term gain? Is that really all it is, everyone is in everyone else's pocket? Just greed? Really?[/quote]

Jeez, Bung, I wish I knew some good answers. If I had a dollar for everytime I asked myself the same kind of questions you are asking, I'd be an oligarch!

The short answer is, in my opinion, it isn't just greed. I think a lot of it has to do with the "herd" mentality of society in general.

But I know that answer isn't satisfactory, so let me be oblique and raise a few other thoughts/questions which sort of fall into the same categorical "defiance" of common sense.

1) Why is it that folks behave differently when they are part of a crowd compared to when they are involved in one-to-one encounters with other individuals? Why is it that almost invariably--in virtually any assembly of folks--there is someone who is singled out and picked on?

2) Why is it so hard to be Good? A bit of folk wisdom, the origins of which I do not know: "Courtesy is expected. Respect is earned. Friendship is shared. Love is given." That's pretty simple but it still is a powerful reminder of what our moral and ethical orientation ought to be. So why do we spend so much energy breaking all these rules?

3) Money makes people do crazy things.

4) It's a system which we have all bought into. In the late 19th/early 20th century an important shift in our society and culture occured. It is so fundamental that folks do not often make it an explicit topic of thought; but it is so powerful that we all accept the premises of that shift. It is in this very limited sense that I feel indebted to Jefferson's critique of economics. He argued that adopting a Hamiltonian perspective on growing this nation would destroy the virtue of the independent "yeoman" farmer with a bias towards the "immorality" of the "city." Well, what eventually happened is not exactly that, but it is along those lines. At some point we stopped being primarily farmers and craftsmen--people who wrested our needs from nature via hard work and ingenuity--and became in part "creatures of the system" who delegated some of our autonomy to the impersonal "corporation" in order to partake of the benefits of a wider distribution of wealth. It's more complicated than that, but in general, as a society, we crossed that bridge in the 1880/1918 timeframe.

As a result, we all have a vested interest in "being right" about this economics stuff. Even if it means being wrong to prove to ourselves that we are right!

5) Why it it that one of the most difficult tasks one can honestly perform is to take a long, hard look in the mirror? That we each of us fail to do this satisfactorily during many (and often during some very important) moments during our lives is not a surprise, but it can be a tragedy under dire circumstances.

[quote]Homer, I believe the well thought-out posts you make regarding the economy in this country, and I hope you know that while I've never met you in person, I think you display intellectual honesty, which is about as much credence as one can have on an anonymous Bengals messageboard!

:lol:[/quote]

Thanks for the compliment, but if you met me in person you'd think: "What's up with this Santa-looking dude?" I'm fat and I'm old and I have a fairly long grey beard. I just try to pay attention as I walk through life. That's the single most important concept I left the military with: "Pay attention to what's going on around you." That and a couple hundred bucks will buy me a drink at Starbucks. :lol:


[quote]Anyway, I suppose I am asking why the clinging to an economic model that isn't working per your description? Can it really just be that our leaders are that short-sighted, malicious, greedy, self-serving or incompetent? Or is there a systemic cause ( I know you've explained some of this re: the changing to the federal reserve note, but that can't handwave away everything that's happening now) that people in power fail to recognize?

I am simply wondering if it is in fact a completely broken system, or if our elected officials are really such a beholden lot, or heck, BOTH! Or more!

I am sick to my stomach that so many are out of work and it appears that there are many variables in play in this FUBAR episode. Has ANYTHING the govt done to address this given you any sense of hope? At all?

Also, what is your take on this current crises vis a vis other global issues like wars, unrest, etc?[/quote]

People now recognize that this is a very serious situation. And I don't think that some of the ineffectiveness in DC and in other capitals is due to some kind of malignancy among our pols. They are just people, too. I may disagree with a lot of what is passing for solutions now but, for the most part, I do not doubt their honest desire to do the right thing. In my view, we are in a race of a kind: how bad does it have to get (with all the corresponding harm it does to people) before folks with real power to change our policy realize that this must be resolved from an "all hands on deck" kind of determination that is "American" in scope and not merely partisan? Because it's that level of crisis, imo: it's one of existence and not merely convenience. We succeed or the US as we know it fades away.

Lastly, I do have hope. Love [i]is[/i] given.

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Homer_Rice Hall Of Fame

Homer_Rice

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[quote name='CincyInDC' post='736687' date='Dec 31 2008, 06:00 AM']Interesting list of the people who are to blame.

[url="http://www.mortgagecalculator.org/helpful-advice/mortgage-meltdown.php"]http://www.mortgagecalculator.org/helpful-...ge-meltdown.php[/url][/quote]
List is way too short imo. To be frank, when I saw that Paul Volcker had become a key advisor to Obama I got a pain in the gut.

For a good primer for some of the major reasons we have our current economic landscape, read Greider's [u]Secrets of the Temple.[/u] It doesn't cover recent events as it was written some time ago, but it does do well on the Carter/Reagan phase of this causal stream.
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