haha@ Paul Daugherty and the Whodey Revolution

[Hooky]

[quote name='scharm' date='27 August 2009 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1251386973' post='795218']
Lack of research is one thing but when you think about it. It is just bad judgement and ignorant babble. The FAA is highly visible transportation department. Yeah, you might want to lay off claims that Mike Brown is telling them how to do their jobs.

Just embarassing for Paul. Just an example of some people can sound foolish when they go to great lengths to grind an axe.
[/quote]

Good point. I wonder if the FAA can request random cavity searches at the airport.

[top6]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='27 August 2009 - 09:41 AM' timestamp='1251380487' post='795179']
Surprisingly, or not, there is no mention of this on WhoDey Revolution's site.
[/quote]
They had a long post about it 2 weeks ago:

http://www.whodeyrevolution.com/whodeyrevolution/2009/08/planes-dont-hurt-feelings-words-do.html

Not sure why "Doc" is covering it now.

[oldschooler]

[size="5"][b]Bengals wins will silence signs[/b][/size]
By Paul Daugherty • pdaugherty@enquirer.com • August 29, 2009



On successive weekends earlier this month, Bud Newhouse flew his two-seat, single-engine Piper Supercub over the Bengals practice facility in Georgetown, Ky. He’d been hired to tow anti-Mike Brown banners, which were either (1) amusing or (2) hilarious, depending on your tolerance for the local NFL club.


“I Can Only See One Scout From Here!” was one.

“When is Training Camp for The Front Office?” was another.

And so on. Appraising the “personnel department” of the Bengals is endless, ongoing and to now, altogether useless. But it has its moments. Bud Newhouse’s tow-plane was a highlight. Unless you were the target of its banner shots.

Bengals brass could not have been amused. What happened next is open to interpretation. What isn’t is this: A Bengals security person called the local FAA office, wondering if Newhouse was flying within FAA rules. The FAA sent two investigators, who found one minor violation; another is under review. There’s a chance that Newhouse could lose his towing privileges.

Here’s a question: If Newhouse had not been towing this:

“101-187-1: HIRE A GM!’’

And instead had been towing this:

“MIKE BROWN ROCKS!’’

. . . would the club’s crack security man have been as vigilant?

The Bengals didn’t allow the security guard to comment. No one else had anything to say directly, either. The team offered a statement, maintaining it was a safety issue, not a banner issue, claiming that Newhouse definitely had been flying dangerously low and that, in fact, Newhouse had been in trouble with the FAA before.

You could believe that the Bengals are benevolent stewards of the public well-being. They had a few thousand fans watching practice, in addition to coaches and players. They didn’t think a banner-dragging plane buzzing their workout was at all safe.

Of course, the Bengals have been known to pull down banners at publicly funded Paul Brown Stadium, too. If those banners crashed, they wouldn’t snap a fly’s hamstring. There is that.

Bud Newhouse is a guy who hasn’t always followed FAA rules to the letter. When he’s flying outside his three-county, southern Ohio home area, he is expected to tell the local FAA folks he’s coming. He calls that a “formality.” You don’t ask the FAA’s permission, he says. You tell them you’re coming. Newhouse hasn’t always complied. Such as at Bengals training camp.

He has had people complain about him and his banners to the FAA before. He says that’s the nature of the business. The banners “occasionally (tick) people off,” he said. “So they call the FAA.”

An FAA spokesman said Friday that Newhouse did not seek a “waiver’’ to fly outside his home area. The spokesman said the charge that Newhouse was flying below the minimum 1,000 feet altitude is being reviewed. Sanctions are a possibility, the spokesman said.

If Newhouse has his towing privileges pulled, one perception will be that the Bengals did their part to safeguard their fans. All the guy had to do was be in compliance. Rules is rules, as Bobby Bowden might say.

Another perception might be that the rich and powerful football team quashed some grassroots dissent again. Did we mention that Bud Newhouse is a 70-year-old, bespectacled, white-haired grandfather?

“Fact is, I fly responsibly. I think it’s silly. It’s petty,” said Bud. Bud is a salty old guy, who has towed banners locally for 20 years. If you ever saw a “FREE PETE ROSE!” banner behind an airplane flying over Riverfront Stadium, that was Bud.

Since 9-11, his business has lagged. FAA regulations since then have forbidden planes like his from flying over stadiums, an hour before a game until an hour after. That cuts Newhouse’s audience considerably and thus the demand for his services. He used to own three planes; now he has one.

Newhouse said he isn’t a sports fan. “I like winning teams, though. It’s easier to sell banners.’’

He maintains the Bengals wanted him grounded because they didn’t like his banners. He says the contention that he was flying below 1,000 feet is “dead wrong. Videotapes don’t prove anything. The proof lies in the radar tapes” at a control tower in nearby Lexington. Newhouse says those tapes will show he was in compliance.

He has received a letter of investigation from the FAA. Lawyers in the agency’s southern region office in Atlanta will decide whether to pursue the case. Newhouse has his own lawyer.

And so it goes. With some teams, you laugh off this incident as harmless fan hijinks, aided and abetted by a crusty old pilot trying to featherbed his retirement.

You praise the club and the FAA for their vigilance on safety issues.

With the Bengals, you don’t immediately assume the club’s best intentions. That might not be fair, but the hill of evidence over the years suggests it’s not unreasonable, either. That’s just how it is. Perceptions are earned.

Instead of worrying about planes towing unflattering banners, you win enough football games that those flights aren’t necessary. That’s all. It’s not complicated.


[b]Bengals statement[/b]

When a low-flying aircraft approached the training camp practices, team security contacted the FAA to ensure that the aircraft was in compliance with FAA regulations. The FAA limits access to any aircraft around public assembly events. The NFL has long sought to restrict aircraft operation near teams and fans, due to safety concerns, and the club attempts to comply with this best practice, regardless of the nature of the message.



http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090829/COL03/308290040/1082/SPT/Bengals+wins+will+silence+signs

[Bengals1181]

holy shit Paul is a fucking whiner. Probably bitter that his former boss and the guy who replaced him basically proved him to be an idiot.

[-GoBengals-]

he is STILL on this?

what a pathetic human being..

[|Bunghole|]

Sooo....someone within the Bengals organization actually contacted the FAA to "look into this guy"...right?

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Bunghole' date='30 August 2009 - 08:57 AM' timestamp='1251640669' post='796214']
Sooo....someone within the Bengals organization actually contacted the FAA to "look into this guy"...right?
[/quote]


When a low-flying aircraft approached the training camp practices, team security contacted the FAA to ensure that the aircraft was in compliance with FAA regulations. The FAA limits access to any aircraft around public assembly events. The NFL has long sought to restrict aircraft operation near teams and fans, due to safety concerns, and the club attempts to comply with this best practice, regardless of the nature of the message.





Let's not act like because the Bengals' security contacted the FAA, that the pilot
wasn't in the wrong though.


It would be like if you saw someone commiting a crime, called the police,
and people started bitching about you getting the guy in trouble.

[Hooky]

Lesson: If you're going to fuck with a huge organization, make sure you're shit's in order.

[sparky151]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='30 August 2009 - 11:11 AM' timestamp='1251641480' post='796217']
When a low-flying aircraft approached the training camp practices, team security contacted the FAA to ensure that the aircraft was in compliance with FAA regulations. The FAA limits access to any aircraft around public assembly events. The NFL has long sought to restrict aircraft operation near teams and fans, due to safety concerns, and the club attempts to comply with this best practice, [b]regardless of the nature of the message.[/b]




Let's not act like because the Bengals' security contacted the FAA, that the pilot
wasn't in the wrong though.


It would be like if you saw someone commiting a crime, called the police,
and people started bitching about you getting the guy in trouble.
[/quote]


Does anyone find that last clause even remotely plausible? Sounds to me like the Bengals did indeed complain to the FAA about the guys message. Think about it. The team sees a plane flying around towing a banner critical of the owner. They don't know who the pilot is or whether his flight plan is in order. They just don't like the message. They also should know that team practices are not covered by the FAA's ban on flying over stadiums during games. They also probably don't have any way to check the guy's altitude without using a laser range finder. Painting planes with lasers is a crime however due to the fear of blinding the pilot. Sounds to me like the Bengals owe the pilot an apology. Also sounds like overkill for the FAA to send two people to investigate a practice flyover. As the pilot says, the radar should confirm his altitude so why was anyone needed to go to the camp?

[oldschooler]

[quote name='sparky151' date='30 August 2009 - 01:00 PM' timestamp='1251651618' post='796286']

Does anyone find that last clause even remotely plausible? Sounds to me like the Bengals did indeed complain to the FAA about the guys message. Think about it. The team sees a plane flying around towing a banner critical of the owner. They don't know who the pilot is or whether his flight plan is in order. They just don't like the message. They also should know that team practices are not covered by the FAA's ban on flying over stadiums during games. They also probably don't have any way to check the guy's altitude without using a laser range finder. Painting planes with lasers is a crime however due to the fear of blinding the pilot. Sounds to me like the Bengals owe the pilot an apology. Also sounds like overkill for the FAA to send two people to investigate a practice flyover. As the pilot says, the radar should confirm his altitude so why was anyone needed to go to the camp?
[/quote]


Owe him an apology? Seriously? hahaha that is hilarious.

They complained because the guy was flying over the practice field repeatedly.
And obviously he was doing something wrong, because even if you were right,
the FAA wouldn't have went after him because of his message.



Seriously though, do you ever take the Bengals' side on anything?

[CougarQuest]

Isn't Sparky a member of WhoDeyRevolution?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='CougarQuest' date='30 August 2009 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1251652865' post='796291']
Isn't Sparky a member of WhoDeyRevolution?
[/quote]


undoubtedly, and probably one of the ones sending emails over there telling them i said mean things about them... and making andrew simon facebook me to death about it....

[sparky151]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='30 August 2009 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1251653981' post='796298']
undoubtedly, and probably one of the ones sending emails over there telling them i said mean things about them... and making andrew simon facebook me to death about it....
[/quote]


For what it's worth, I'm not a member of WDR and don't know anyone who is. I haven't been to their site in several months. I'm just one of many people who have a low opinion of Mike Brown.

[scharm]

Read the first article and then second.

Say what you want about Mike Brown. Paul is a piece of shit.

In a way it is scary. Gee, I don't like Mike Brown's record as a GM so I'm willing to distort truth and excuse FAA violations.

Makes me wonder what would happen if Mike was actually a winning GM?


[quote]Bud Newhouse is a guy who hasn’t always followed FAA rules to the letter.[/quote]

This is unfair on my part, but I picture this in the same class as "Good ole Bud, he likes to drive home from the bar" What's the harm?

You know that FAA just like MADD always bitching about small little things and trying to scare you.

I mostly think Paul is a little bitch on a normal day, but come on how big of a bitch can he be? Seriously, who can be mad at Grandpa flying a plane?

[scharm]

[quote name='sparky151' date='30 August 2009 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1251656132' post='796300']
For what it's worth, I'm not a member of WDR and don't know anyone who is. I haven't been to their site in several months. I'm just one of many people who have a low opinion of Mike Brown.
[/quote]

Bullshit, you are a founding member. You've stuck your hand in toilets. Come clean.

[sparky151]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='30 August 2009 - 02:05 PM' timestamp='1251651900' post='796288']
Owe him an apology? Seriously? hahaha that is hilarious.

They complained because the guy was flying over the practice field repeatedly.
And obviously he was doing something wrong, because even if you were right,
the FAA wouldn't have went after him because of his message.



Seriously though, do you ever take the Bengals' side on anything?
[/quote]


Yes, they should apologize to the fellow. He's a small businessman trying to make a living and they are trying to get the government to crackdown on him.

Suppose WDR and MADD had a practice of following Bengals players around when they are in public and if they see them leaving a tavern or restaurant tipsy, they called in a DUI complaint with the player's licence plate number and direction of travel. My view is that would be wrong to target the players that way. Perhaps you take the opposite view that it's ok to target them if they're breaking the law. A drunk driver is certainly a more immediate threat to public safety than a plane towing a banner that a rich guy doesn't like.

Flying over their practice field is perfectly legal if he's above 1000 feet. They don't have the right to prohibit other people from exercising their right to free speech. So they try to get the government to do it for them. Shameful.

I call them like I see them. The Bengals are not a very well run team and the results speak for themselves. Sometimes I applaud them as with the Whitworth and Peko contract extensions. They'll probably try to extend Chris Henry and at least one of JoJo or Leon this year and I'm in favor of that. I like this year's draft class frex.

[sparky151]

[quote name='scharm' date='30 August 2009 - 03:27 PM' timestamp='1251656847' post='796304']
Bullshit, you are a founding member. You've stuck your hand in toilets. Come clean.
[/quote]

Jeez, thanks for the image. I take it you're referring to the WDR urinal cakes? Anyway I haven't been to a game at PBS in 3 or 4 years. Buying tickets made me feel like an enabler.

[sparky151]

[quote name='scharm' date='30 August 2009 - 03:25 PM' timestamp='1251656756' post='796303']
Read the first article and then second.

Say what you want about Mike Brown. Paul is a piece of shit.

In a way it is scary. Gee, I don't like Mike Brown's record as a GM so I'm willing to distort truth and excuse FAA violations.

Makes me wonder what would happen if Mike was actually a winning GM?




This is unfair on my part, but I picture this in the same class as "Good ole Bud, he likes to drive home from the bar" What's the harm?

You know that FAA just like MADD always bitching about small little things and trying to scare you.

I mostly think Paul is a little bitch on a normal day, but come on how big of a bitch can he be? Seriously, who can be mad at Grandpa flying a plane?
[/quote]


Sounds to me like the pilot is correct. He does need to inform the FAA where he's flying but doesn't need their permission. The tower radar will tell whether he was above the required height. So why were two guys sent out to the camp? Frankly it sounds like they were there either because the Bengals are a big deal to Georgetown (ie the Bengals got preferential treatment) or because they wanted to meet the team and maybe get autographs. In any event, do you really think the team would have called the FAA if the banner had been complimentary of Mike Brown or if it was normal advertising of the "Eat at Joe's diner" sort?

[CougarQuest]

[quote name='sparky151' date='30 August 2009 - 03:42 PM' timestamp='1251657721' post='796310']
Sounds to me like the pilot is correct. He does need to inform the FAA where he's flying but doesn't need their permission. The tower radar will tell whether he was above the required height. So why were two guys sent out to the camp? Frankly it sounds like they were there either because the Bengals are a big deal to Georgetown (ie the Bengals got preferential treatment) or because they wanted to meet the team and maybe get autographs. In any event, do you really think the team would have called the FAA if the banner had been complimentary of Mike Brown or if it was normal advertising of the "Eat at Joe's diner" sort?
[/quote]
If an aircraft is flying over my house below 500 feet, I'm calling somebody. I don't give a shit if it has a banner or not. And I don't have twin towers near my house either.

[scharm]

[quote]In any event, do you really think the team would have called the FAA if the banner had been complimentary of Mike Brown or if it was normal advertising of the "Eat at Joe's diner" sort?
[/quote]

Yes.

Now go back to report that to your WDR friends.

[quote]Buying tickets made me feel like an enabler. [/quote]

Watching on TV enables more. Anyway your feelings are your problem.

[scharm]

[quote]He does need to inform the FAA where he's flying but doesn't need their permission[/quote]

Those small fucking details will get you every time.

That FAA just trying to keep you down.


Keep in mind the only reason why that's excusable to you is because of Mike's record as a GM. Nice.


So if I drink a case of beer and drive around town as long as I have a "Mike Brown Sucks" bumper sticker and do in the name of a revolution, that's excusable to you right?

[sparky151]

[quote name='scharm' date='30 August 2009 - 03:47 PM' timestamp='1251658075' post='796317']
Yes.

Now go back to report that to your WDR friends.



Watching on TV enables more. Anyway your feelings are your problem.
[/quote]

Ok, why do you think the team called? There were no reports of the plane mock diving toward the crowd, or being in distress. Are you really unfamiliar with airborne advertising? If you eliminate the security possibility or the safety possibility what's left?

[sparky151]

[quote name='scharm' date='30 August 2009 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1251658337' post='796321']
Those small fucking details will get you every time.

That FAA just trying to keep you down.


Keep in mind the only reason why that's excusable to you is because of Mike's record as a GM. Nice.


So if I drink a case of beer and drive around town as long as I have a "Mike Brown Sucks" bumper sticker and do in the name of a revolution, that's excusable to you right?
[/quote]


Well, even if the guy didn't file the right flight plan, how would the team know? That's a matter between him and the FAA, and the Bengals shouldn't be involved.

Regarding the drunk driving issue, my view is that people shouldn't drink and drive and if they do so they take their chances of getting arrested or killed. On the other hand, focusing law enforcement resources on a particular group simply because you don't like them is wrong too. The law is supposed to be impartial. So far there is just an FAA investigation so we'll see how it turns out. The radar may exculpate the pilot or lead to a fine. The point is that the Bengals shouldn't have been involved though.

[scharm]

[quote name='sparky151' date='30 August 2009 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1251658625' post='796324']
Ok, why do you think the team called? There were no reports of the plane mock diving toward the crowd, or being in distress. Are you really unfamiliar with airborne advertising? If you eliminate the security possibility or the safety possibility what's left?
[/quote]

The team's statement explains why they called. The article openly admits the pilot is in FAA violation.

What more do I need to be familiar with?

[CougarQuest]

Yea, low flying plane crashes never happen around football fields in Greater Cincinnati.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20090821/NEWS01/308210094/